She pushed me into wall scratched my face

[hurthusband]

Well.  Got off a bit early yesterday.  Went to sell her parents cars for her sister since thst is my business.  She was upset I didn't take off earlier.  I knew it was trouble but I let her know to watch spending because I need to raise 2600 by end of week to pay bills.  I am scared and try not to communicate much with her.  She had woken me up in middle of night a couple of nights ago with great idea for art project.  I hadn't mentioned it since cause she didn't and it was very emotional for her so didn't know if I should.  She got mad at me for it this morning.  She told me to do what I wanted to do today but I don't have any clean clothes so I offered to do laundry which she rejected.  Kids have nothing too.  She started verbally cursing and blaming me for hurting her and kids.  I finally told her to stop bringing kids into this and blaming me for their unhappiness and take some responsibility for her part.  She pushed me into wall scratched my face and threatened me.  Then begged me not to call police.  I left.  She told me to never call nor come back.  Get my own things clothes etc.

[momtara]

Sorry to hear it. You acted reasonably. Even if you don't file a complaint, you could always put it on record with the police for your future safety and for the benefit of the kids. Show them the bruise. I think you should have a tape recorder too. Not to hurt her, just to protect yourself and protect the kids if anything bad ever comes up. I'm sorry that this happened. You did a good job of standing your ground and maintaining your boundaries about what you will talk about. I hope you do something relaxing today or at least get some work done or something productive. Be good to yourself. At least you didn't say anything bad to her that you will regret or feel bad about.

[hurthusband]

no bruise... it didnt really hurt or anything...

she just keeps arguing that i am not loving or caring that that our life is stagnant

i am making more now than 5 years ago.  i am working less.  i am constantly wanting to know what i can do to help.  she herself and therapist has said she is abusive, and does not contribute to the family at all now, but i am the problem?

i am the one not caring?  I am asking what i can do... she is getting mad at me cause things i do in my sleep.  i woke up 4 times last night when she did getting her stuff and doing stuff and she said one time i grabbed her hand and told her to lay down... i was sleeping im sorry it was bad but what am i to do...

i dont say the things she says she thinks i think but she says what i think she believes. 

this is bad... very bad.

[OnceConfused]

What are you going to do about your suffering?

Do nothing and hope your suffering will evaporate into thin are, and you and her will have the best life ever .

Or Do something about your suffering.

What are you going to do ?

What are you going to do?

[Panda39]

I echo OnceConfused.

When are you going to stop trying to please someone that will not be pleased?  When are you going to start taking care of yourself?  When will you stop living your life by your wife's commands, whims and moods?  When will you realize that your value is not based on your wife's opinion?

You can not change your wife only she can change her.  What you can change is yourself.

What are you going to change?

What are you going to do?

What are you going to do for YOU?

[hurthusband]

I echo OnceConfused.

When are you going to stop trying to please someone that will not be pleased?  When are you going to start taking care of yourself?  When will you stop living your life by your wife's commands, whims and moods?  When will you realize that your value is not based on your wife's opinion?

You can not change your wife only she can change her.  What you can change is yourself.

What are you going to change?

What are you going to do?

What are you going to do for YOU?

I accept that i cannot change her.

The part I have a hard time accepting is that I am correct and fair and not what she describes me as to a degree.  I know I am not all bad, but I do not want to harm her unfairly.  I just do not know what is wrong to a degree

This is all exacerbated because she is my first and only relationship.  I do not know how a normal relationship is or what to be expected. 

now she is saying she has to go to back to back therapies at a charge of $250 a session which insurance will not cover back to back sessions because she says otherwise it does nto benefit her.  At same time, I have not seen any of that from Linehan on DBT therapy.  She also refused to ask for receipts.

She then is just mean and so I told her since I am forced otu of my house she is responsible now for herself.  She is blowing up my phone now.

[Panda39]

Disengage for now.  Turn off the phone/forward to voicemail.  Create some space for yourself to think and to work.  It is okay to do that.  Do it for you. 

[momtara]

Agreed, don't answer.  Every single time you have answered, it has made things worse even if it started nice.  I could go back and count your posts where you finally took the call and she lured you into an argument, made a threat, or got you to say something you regretted. 

"I know I am not all bad, but I do not want to harm her unfairly." Well, don't call her a name or do anything out of revenge.  You are simply protecting yourself and stating fair boundaries.

"This is all exacerbated because she is my first and only relationship.  I do not know how a normal relationship is or what to be expected."

I was like that too.  I always heard relationships were compromise, etc.  But it's clear if she makes you choose between things you care about, or wants you to give up something you need, want or love, that is wrong. 

"now she is saying she has to go to back to back therapies at a charge of $250 a session which insurance will not cover back to back sessions because she says otherwise it does nto benefit her."

tell her you'd like to get a note from her doctor saying this, if she wants you to pay. say it will help with insurance. it makes no sense that she wouldn't ask for receipts, either. one session is fine. asking for receipts is a legitimate boundary and one you should stick to above all else. how else will you pay?

you have spoken to the doc before so if you have any doubt, you can ask the doc if she won't give receipts. that's b.s., i'm guessing.

Doubling the DBT doesn't seem like it will change things, if one session hasn't helped. By now her doc should have gotten her to do more positive behaviors. She may just take your money and not go. Set a reasonable boundary - say you need to come to one to see how it goes, or just refuse until you have more money or until she pays or something else. Always push the responsibility back to her... .and don't commit to anything long term.  It's reasonable to say you'll agree one time and see how things go.  Or just say you want to hold off for now - don't promise things you'll regret. You often get cowed into paying for stuff for her and it doens't help.

[GaGrl]

As long as you are separated, you can simply tell her that anything your insurance doesn't pay will be her responsibility.

It is absolutely ludicrous to think that a reputable therapist refuses to provide receipts.  There is something really, really fishy about that story.

[Mutt]

I do not know how a normal relationshipis or what to be expected.

I'm sorry your going through this hurthusband. I can relate. I didn't know what a healthy r/s was either and I put up with  a lot of toxic and bad behaviors for several years because I thought this was what a loving r/s was. Thankfully there's a ton of help from the community and resources here. I recall my first session with a P after several MC counselors and she said I kept worrying about her and not my needs. That opened my eyes.

Have you brought the subject up with your T?

Here's a handy questionnaire and guide. Some characteristics are trust, respect, support, honesty, accountability, shared responsibility.



So, Is Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner?

B. Is your partner glad that you have other friends?

C. Is your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions?

D. Does your partner ask for and respect your opinions?

E. Does she/he really listen to you?

F. Can she/he talk about her/his feelings?

G. Does your partner have a good relationship with her/his family?

H. Does she/he have good friends?

I. Does she/he have interests besides you?

J. Does she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures?

K. Does your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life?

L. Are you and your partner friends? Best friends?

If you answered most of these questions with a yes, you probably are not in a relationship that is likely to become abusive. If you answered no to some or most of these questions you may be in an abusive relationship, please continue with the next set of questions.

Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

Disengage for now.  Turn off the phone/forward to voicemail.  Create some space for yourself to think and to work.  It is okay to do that.  :)o it for you.  

Agreed, don't answer.  Every single time you have answered, it has made things worse even if it started nice.  I could go back and count your posts where you finally took the call and she lured you into an argument, made a threat, or got you to say something you regretted.

As long as you are separated, you can simply tell her that anything your insurance doesn't pay will be her responsibility.

A lot of great advice  

Good boundaries; anything your insurance doesn't cover your not going to pay; she's an adult capable of taking care if herself, don't take the bait and turn off the phone and let the messages go to voicemail.

Your seperated a good time to take care of you  

How does this sound like hurthusband?

Is it a system you can put in place to cope and give yourself space? I think you need to give yourself a lot of TLC   You deserve it for yourself.

If not, why?

[HoldingAHurricane]

It's a terrible thing to be hurt by someone you love. To constantly hear that you aren't making the grade no matter how hard you've been trying. Hanging onto a person who is constantly destabilized gave me the wobbles too. I think that's where detachment makes a difference for me when I can do it. I have to focus on trying not to hold onto him when he is melting down because I spin out of control too.   

I realised part of walking on eggshells for me was constantly asking for permission for things I had a right to to avoid an argument and listening to my husbands definitions of me. All the 'You're too... .You're not... .You should... .If you just... .I wouldn't X, if you didn't Y' are his opinion and his feelings that stem from those beliefs matter but they can't define me anymore. Only I have a right to do that. All I can do is acknowledge how he feels thinking they are true. Molding myself to not be what he said I was didn't stop the accusations.

take care of yourself

[momtara]

Good list, Mutt.

Hurthusband, it occurred to me that one resource you haven't dealt with yet (maybe) is a local domestic violence counselor or calling a hotline. Maybe someone in your local county court who deals with DV could point you toward a counselor who may have suggestions, without you having to officially report anything. (Not sure it would help, just trying to think.)

In any case, separating yourself for a bit and not getting sucked into the arguments and not responding to the calls is a good thing.  You already sound healthier, and deep down, your wife and the kids need you to be healthy.  Save the messages. Do it so that you can be around to help the kids in the future, in case you get falsely accused of anything.  Send a long email to yourself about what happened. I hope you can work all this out, but should it end in a split someday, I want you to have the chance to be in these kids' lives if you want to fight for that. You may be the best person to take care of them and I want you to have the records if you do want to fight to legally be in their lives.

[hurthusband]

asked myself those questions listed and about half are yes and half no

I am tired... been icing so literally been living at the office.  need a shower...

she is just so miserable.  she has given up on us for most part.  Depression really creeping in at this point

I have not called a domestic abuse hotline.  Its just not THAT severe and I know I will not do anything. 

She is horribly hurting too.  Not leaving bed.  Everything just seems at standstill

[Mutt]

I have not called a domestic abuse hotline.  Its just not THAT severe and I know I will not do anything.

What are things you do for self care?

Can you give the abuse hotline a call? They are experts and it's a good idea to talk to someone live and get a professional opinion.

[momtara]

In a normal relationship, there is NO abuse. Not half yes, half no.

[OnceConfused]

Hurthusband:

I have followed  your posts for awhile now. I believe your suffering is caused NOT by her, but really by you, by your inaction, by you acquiescing to her rage & her demand.

She is who she is, so again my advice to  you is:

What are you going to do?

What is the exit strategy or the staying strategy?

I know you are tired and feel pushed down. But you have to get up and fight.

Take the first step, my friend.

[hurthusband]

some of it is... sacrifice myself to help her and the kids...

i cannot bring myself to hurt them all more to save myself.  even if its fair thing to do and she brought this on herself

[Panda39]

i cannot bring myself to hurt them all more to save myself.  even if its fair thing to do and she brought this on herself

Then you will continue to live the way you have which is something none of us want to see.  We are all fighting for you... .we need you to fight for you.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

[momtara]

HurtHusband, I think you are confused - setting boundaries is NOT hurting her or them.  In fact, it helps everyone, if you set the right ones.  You are the most logical and rational person in their lives now, so you need to be healthy and sane and (hopefully occasionally) happy and relaxed.  You deserve it, but you need to do it so you can stay healthy.

For example, she has said over and over you should quit your job.  You wisely have resisted this.  If you had quit, it REALLY would have hurt her because then you are not able to pay for the things you all need.  So following her demands does not help her.

If you sit at work and take her calls and get baited into arguments and can't work or function, that hurts her too.  Avoid the angry calls.  Be firm.

Refusing to talk to her about your mom, or about work, helps all of you because it means your mom gets to stay as a resource for you, and you are a resource for your wife and the kids.

You don't want to divorce her, so I am not advocating for that.  I am advocating for keeping her cruelty at bay so you can function and feel normal.  I think it's important to reach out, get help, and not accept any times she tries to hurt you, physically or mentally, whether it's calling you 40x at work, or asking you to do something stupid like quit your job or avoid your own mother.

Keeping yourself healthy and sane is something that benefits them.  So when people ask you to focus on yourself, it's not necessarily at her expense.  She isn't of sound mind so she needs you to do things that are rational, because she can't.  One rational thing is to not keep accepting nutty calls or demands.  Especially when you know they don't make sense.  A $250 psych session without asking for a receipt?  Not rational.

If she is a physical danger, not getting out of bed, not taking care of the kids, etc., then she is a danger to herself and others, and maybe someone should force her into the right treatment.  Maybe someone should step in to help you.  If things get too bad, reach out and get help.  It will be such a relief to have someone else involved besides just you.

Calling a hotline is free and can't hurt.

[Mutt]

i cannot bring myself to hurt them all more to save myself.  even if its fair thing to do and she brought this on herself

Then you will continue to live the way you have which is something none of us want to see.  We are all fighting for you... .we need you to fight for you.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

I used to do the same thing over and over expecting different results for 8 years. Crazy making behaviors.

Nothing changes without change.

Calling a hotline is free and can't hurt.

[hurthusband]

well... wife let me go home to get my stuff.  when i got there she was gone and told me to leave when she called and i was emotional at seeing the kids.

She then told me to leave and get out.  She was mean i felt.  She says i hung up on her as she was crying which i did because she started the whole thing saying how horrible she was feeling and i when i trying to empathize by saying i know you are feeling horrible she stated i have no clue and it would be the whole road of how i have no clue...

anyways. her son called me today and said he couldnt handle her verbal abuse.  i told him he should call his aunt and he asked id id not let mom know.

so when she demanding i leave... i told her this is it and i am tired of all of this.  iwas yelling some and told her i would not allow her to hurt the kids if she ever did and left.  She then called her sister and said her sister came over with a gun and neighbors were panicked because seh said i said i was going to kidnap the kids in order to protect them or something like that...   i went back just to drop off her anniversary gift at door and she called me about 45 times i told her it was harrassment and not to contact me.  she wanted the present gone so i went to get it

she then calls me saying she is alone... and crying and i tell her i am concerned if i try and sympathize she will just get mean and trap me again with this cyclical talk

she then goes in how she cannot be with me cause some of the things... she went back to how i believed my mother over her and the kids over my mother saying she touched them at my grandfathers funeral and the kids and her saying she did not.  both parties feel they were ignored by the other.  honestly, i dont ___ing care about that.  im tired of it.  my mother isnt pressing it.  wife though says because i still work there i picked moms side and thats why i have no place to live...

so im back to thinking that maybe i should have quit... .on other hand then how to support self.  am i just refusing to deal with that issue?  i dont think my kids would lie.  maybe they didnt notice my mother, but somebody else who was not there said she mentioned it all.  that would mean she was plotting and scheming this for over 24 hours.  i just dont think my mother cared that much to try and do this.

why should it even really matter?

[waverider]

HH I think a lot of the problem is that you have difficulty defining your own needs, and are still determining your actions on her needs, simply because they are more assertive.

You are either complying with them, or defending yourself against them. Either way they are central to determining your actions. Your own needs are not even allowed to get on the stage, and hence have little influence on your actions.

Until you get her needs off center stage and replace them with yours things will never be cohesive in a positive way. As your actions are being driven by instability.

What is going to happen tomorrow/next week/next month? ... .you dont know because that still depends on what she does, or says... This is the problem.

You are responding to heckling rather than writing the script

[hurthusband]

I have alot of guilt and extreme distrust in myself as to what reality is i suppose.  I want to do what is right, but I do not want to do what is selfish.  The hard part is trying to trust myself to know that and know my reality is sane.

I know that I mainly just want stabilty and my wife and kids as my family.  I do not want to hurt anyone else.  That is a major thing

[momtara]

HurtHusband.

The children are begging you for help.

Someone came to the house with a GUN.

She falsely claims you are going to kidnap the kids.

You need to get outside help or this could get worse.  No more being afraid of who finds out.  This could end with someone getting hurt and then the help will be forced upon all of you but it may be too late.

You have to stop saying you should quit your job - it is all you have left that prevents utter and complete chaos. How would anyone pay for her sick visits, mortgage, things kids need. More importantly, the children are scared enough to confide in you - and it resulted in someone coming to the house with a gun.  Your wife deep down does not want you to quit.

What happens if she claims you assaulted her, or takes the children away... .how will you have proof of anything that has happened?  I know you don't want to hurt anyone, and the best way to HELP them is to keep working, document what has happened, and notify the school or someone in authority of what is going on.

I think you should start documenting from this moment - tape record her calls, things the kid say, etc.  You don't have to use it unless it's an emergency.

This is too much for one person to handle.  Can you at least make a report to the police, and just not have them act on it?  You can do that, you know.  Tell about how she hurt you (they should take it seriously), the car incident, and others.  Unless you want to press charges, they don't have to tell.  But you will have the report if she someday makes a false claim to send you to jail.

I am not an expert and so these are my opinions but I don't want to see anyone hurt.  Please tell someone who you trust who is a professional.

[GaGrl]

hurthusband, you and your wife both are in an extreme state of denial as to her alcohol problems and depression, and your anxiety and depression.  You are so deep in it that you can't imagine any alternatives to the misery you are in.

Someone needs to stop the ever-deepening cycle.  I know you feel paralyzed in the face of her abuse, but you are the more competent partner, and it needs to be you who says, "This stops now."

Boundaries.  Documentation.  Assistance from others.

[waverider]

You are trying to cure a psychological cancer by apply bandaids. It will take mental surgery, painful surgery at that. Even then the results can't be guaranteed. If you continue to apply superficial remedies, and avoid the hard calls, it will get worse until something catastrophic happens.

Today she pushes you and scratches your face. This means angry dysregulation has no consequence. What happens if next time, or the time after, she has a kitchen knife in her hands and in a dysregulated state she forgets this and strikes you?

What happens if one of the kids steps in as they have had enough and she lashes out at them without thinking. They are not immune, especially as they get older. You are the target because you are there, what provocation do you think older kids are capable of?

Aggression left unchecked always escalates, you are not the only vulnerable one, it is just your turn to be the target at the moment. The disorder is not fussy who it is, just as long as someone is.

[hurthusband]

well... she is dysretulated, depressed, and drinks too much

i am depressed and high anxiety which i recognize

Did go with her to her therapist.  There therapist honestly let into her pretty good. 

since that time she has been fluctuating.  VERY kind... then mean which I am ignoring when I am around. then very kind again.  I am trying to just disengage.  Thank her for her kindness and recognize it but also explain i just cannot engage her right now

o and today is our anniversary... ugh

i feel better though at this point.  She did offer to use her money from parents death to pay down our debt regardless if we seperate since its all in my name which was kind

[momtara]

Let her do it! Don't back down.

Glad therapist finally got b*lls and told her to lay off you.

[hurthusband]

Yea I suppose I am.  Thanks for support so far.  Bit out of it today.  Work is crazy

[momtara]

I am seeing you are setting better boundaries, which is good.

Congrats on getting her therapist to see both of you twice.  You are very smart.  Good job!

I still think you have to get outside help when things go awry, rather than tiptoing and blaming yourself. As others have said, she could hurt someone, or herself.  Or the kids.

You are loving and caring but sometimes you need intervention to get things right.

Hope your weekend is great.