History DID and does repeat itself...

[sirensong65]

So, if any of you remember, I was engaged to be married to me BPDex when two days before the wedding he cancelled.  From there we unraveled and I found out I didn't know WHO I was about to say forever to.  A liar, a cheater, he was also Bi Polar and suffered from depression and erectile dysfunction that he blamed on me but happened with a few others before me.

Fast forward to last summer.  He was splashed all over the internet and his Facebook with a trashy ex stripper, former WWE wrestler who also does some creepy things online with fetish modeling.  I was mortified.  They were moving at warp speed, he was back to his old tricks.  Me and one of the Exes before (actually during) my time with him are now friends and she said we should reach out to her even though we didn't particularly like what she stands for.  It was obvious, she was falling for his b.s. and needed to know what she was REALLY dealing with.

Well, we did, and I got the brunt of it when she and my Ex came to my home (I live in a securely gated neighborhood) walked onto private property to get to my car and place an envelope addressed to me on my windshield with a cozy picture of the two of them, autographed by her on the back.  This occurred on a Saturday night late and they each live atleast 30 minutes away... .  Message received, I never contacted her again.

Well, fast forward to now. They are DONE, she blogs openly on the internet, the other Ex reads it from time to time.  This girl (who is unstable too) tells ALL on a public blog.  Let me give those of you hurting over replacements and thinking they can make it work some highlights:

They were MADLY in love and ALWAYS together and snapping constant pics 5 weeks in.  Fully a couple.  By 7 weeks in, she is blogging that she cries a lot, he scares her,  He has punched holes in her walls. But she loves him.

Now, there is NO trace of him on her Instagram or Facebook page.  In her last blog entry she was saying she wasn't sure of they would make it.  That she was mad that he wasn't honest with her and she had no idea he suffered from depression, that he hadn't disclosed all to her.

As of today, it appears they do not speak, they are not together.  Even if they do recycle, the message is clear.  Things do not MAGICALLY work because they go off with someone different.  THEY are the constant, therefore, it will always have the same outcome.

So, for me, it doesn't hurt anymore. I know that no matter who comes next, he can pretend it is picture perfect and rosy but it always gets sabotaged by his disorder...

[Wood stock]

Thank you for this post... .when we hear from the BPD ex how horrible we are and how we, the nons, are the cause of their problems, it is such a relief when we have confirmation that the relationship problems continue when they move on with a replacement.

I know that my ex fiancé was on match.com merely days after the breakup... .made me feel horrible but this forum prepared me for it... .I dread the day I have to see him waltzing around town with my replacement, but I know it's coming. And when it does, I'm going to remember this and other posts about how history does repeat itself.

Thank you again for sharing.

[sirensong65]

Match.com, ah, their hunting ground.  Mine met the stripper on Match.  Me and all the exes met him on Match or POF. 

I refuse to go back on those sites. 

[hope2727]

Mine has his new true love splashed all over Facebook but was on POF again yesterday. Sigh. How did I ever love him so? Why do I still?  Sorry. The thread really helped me today. Thanks

[CloseToFreedom]

It is good to read stuff like this, but at the other hand I often feel like I'm in limbo waiting for the other shoe to drop with my ex and the replacement. I shouldn't wait for it and just start living my own life.

[apollotech]

It's the same lead actor/actress and story in every sequel. The only things that change are the lead supporting actor/actress and the set. The story is always a whirlwind romance that degenerates into a dramatic tragedy. Very sad for all involved.

[downnout98]

It's the same lead actor/actress and story in every sequel. The only things that change are the lead supporting actor/actress and the set. The story is always a whirlwind romance that degenerates into a dramatic tragedy. Very sad for all involved.

I feel that I need this to be true to help me in moving on. What I keep thinking about is how my exBPDgf and were so good together. The problems in our relationship were due to my family and ex wife being painted black by her. My exBPDgf is seeing a therapist and she has learned that my family and my ex were her biggest triggers. My family lives in another state but the problem was that they did not accept her at first because our relationship started as an affair The same can be said of my exwife of course. So there was real reason for them to see us in a negative light. She couldn't deal with it and wanted them to just get over it.

Anyway, she does not have to deal with this with my replacement. All his family and friends love her she says. She tells me that he is a really nice guy but she still thinks of me. That she can't lose the thought of me. I am starting to feel like I made a mistake in not taking her back before t he replacement came into the picture.

This sucks, I was doing better till she planted this seed in my hand with her reaching out to me.

[GrowThroughIt]

It's the same lead actor/actress and story in every sequel. The only things that change are the lead supporting actor/actress and the set. The story is always a whirlwind romance that degenerates into a dramatic tragedy. Very sad for all involved.

I feel that I need this to be true to help me in moving on. What I keep thinking about is how my exBPDgf and were so good together. The problems in our relationship were due to my family and ex wife being painted black by her. My exBPDgf is seeing a therapist and she has learned that my family and my ex were her biggest triggers. My family lives in another state but the problem was that they did not accept her at first because our relationship started as an affair The same can be said of my exwife of course. So there was real reason for them to see us in a negative light. She couldn't deal with it and wanted them to just get over it.

Anyway, she does not have to deal with this with my replacement. All his family and friends love her she says. She tells me that he is a really nice guy but she still thinks of me. That she can't lose the thought of me. I am starting to feel like I made a mistake in not taking her back before t he replacement came into the picture.

This sucks, I was doing better till she planted this seed in my hand with her reaching out to me.

Do you think it's coincidence that she is reaching out to you whilst you were doing well... .?

Don't go back to someone who has so little integrity... .

[downnout98]

It's the same lead actor/actress and story in every sequel. The only things that change are the lead supporting actor/actress and the set. The story is always a whirlwind romance that degenerates into a dramatic tragedy. Very sad for all involved.

I feel that I need this to be true to help me in moving on. What I keep thinking about is how my exBPDgf and were so good together. The problems in our relationship were due to my family and ex wife being painted black by her. My exBPDgf is seeing a therapist and she has learned that my family and my ex were her biggest triggers. My family lives in another state but the problem was that they did not accept her at first because our relationship started as an affair The same can be said of my exwife of course. So there was real reason for them to see us in a negative light. She couldn't deal with it and wanted them to just get over it.

Anyway, she does not have to deal with this with my replacement. All his family and friends love her she says. She tells me that he is a really nice guy but she still thinks of me. That she can't lose the thought of me. I am starting to feel like I made a mistake in not taking her back before t he replacement came into the picture.

This sucks, I was doing better till she planted this seed in my hand with her reaching out to me.

Do you think it's coincidence that she is reaching out to you whilst you were doing well... .?

Don't go back to someone who has so little integrity... .

She is just toying with me? Trying to keep me hanging on to her? I told her that this feels like she is breaking up with me all over again. She gives hope then takes it away. She said that she was sorry and that she was just communicating her feelings.

[GrowThroughIt]

It's the same lead actor/actress and story in every sequel. The only things that change are the lead supporting actor/actress and the set. The story is always a whirlwind romance that degenerates into a dramatic tragedy. Very sad for all involved.

I feel that I need this to be true to help me in moving on. What I keep thinking about is how my exBPDgf and were so good together. The problems in our relationship were due to my family and ex wife being painted black by her. My exBPDgf is seeing a therapist and she has learned that my family and my ex were her biggest triggers. My family lives in another state but the problem was that they did not accept her at first because our relationship started as an affair The same can be said of my exwife of course. So there was real reason for them to see us in a negative light. She couldn't deal with it and wanted them to just get over it.

Anyway, she does not have to deal with this with my replacement. All his family and friends love her she says. She tells me that he is a really nice guy but she still thinks of me. That she can't lose the thought of me. I am starting to feel like I made a mistake in not taking her back before t he replacement came into the picture.

This sucks, I was doing better till she planted this seed in my hand with her reaching out to me.

Do you think it's coincidence that she is reaching out to you whilst you were doing well... .?

Don't go back to someone who has so little integrity... .

She is just toying with me? Trying to keep me hanging on to her? I told her that this feels like she is breaking up with me all over again. She gives hope then takes it away. She said that she was sorry and that she was just communicating her feelings.

My ex tried to do the same to me. Would put a plaster over my wound just so she could rip it off and put her finger in it!

I believe she is toying with you. You need to understand that she may have emotional dysregulation. She may even know this. She may even know that she wants you to hang around to feed her ego.

You said you was doing well. That's exactly what she doesn't want (consciously or unconsciously). How dare you do well without her? You should feel blessed by her calling you and throwing you hope(!) You should know that you can't live life without her(!) She needs to feel like you can't live life without her. She's going to sap you for all the emotional energy you have. She'll flit from one supply to another.

Take a step back and assess why you feel like you want her back/feel like communicating with her.

[willtimeheal]

That was my exBPDs favorite line "I am just trying to communicate my feelings." Why was it every time she communicated her feelings it was a bashing session on how horrible and uncaring I was!  How I never thought of her or her needs. Which was bull. At the time my whole life revolved around keeping her happy... .if she wasn't happy I paid the price.

"I am just communicating my feelings" is code for you are not paying enough attention to me and I need to suck more supply from you.

[downnout98]

I think you are right Growthroughit. She is feeding her ego. I was incredibly romantic during our r/s and I know she misses it. I can't help but tell her romantic things when she reminisces our past. I feed her ego and then she is off and running again. I need to stop everything and remain no contact. It just hard because I work with her.

Like willtimeheal, my whole life was about making her happy. That lasted three years.

[Visitor]

I've seen many threads about people watching their ex's new relationship in the hope that it all fails. Although I completely understand this I don't feel this is a healthy thing to do.

You would get a lot more peace if you find it in your heart to wish your partner well in their new relationship and start to work on closing the door and moving on.

Schauden fraude (pleasure from somebody elses misfortune) is a bad trait displayed by a person with a weak caracter.

Its hard but try to find it in your heart to forgive guys and wish your partner all the best in life... its time to take the leasons you have learned, heal and then move on.

[sirensong65]

Visitor:

I find your reply smug and insulting.

How is that for weak character?

[Deeno02]

Forgiveness is for me. Not her. Shes on her own to figure it out (with the replacement of course). Aint got time for it.

[Visitor]

Visitor:

I find your reply smug and insulting.

How is that for weak character?

Hi Sirensong65

You had no place contacting his new girlfriend to warn the new woman of his impending behaviour. It was inevitable that nothing good would come of this and no doubt it was painful to get that photo they left on your car.

Befriending his ex girlfriend, contacting his new girlfriend then stalking their social media are all behaviours that will impede healing.

I understand anybody who says they want their ex's new relationship to fail miserably but these are the emotions of somebody who quite clearly are not yet over their ex.

Think of my reply as a goal to work towards not a switch that can be flicked. When you are out of the woods Im sure it will not hit a nerve as bad as it did.

[Recooperating]

I've seen many threads about people watching their ex's new relationship in the hope that it all fails. Although I completely understand this I don't feel this is a healthy thing to do.

You would get a lot more peace if you find it in your heart to wish your partner well in their new relationship and start to work on closing the door and moving on.

Schauden fraude (pleasure from somebody elses misfortune) is a bad trait displayed by a person with a weak caracter.

Its hard but try to find it in your heart to forgive guys and wish your partner all the best in life... its time to take the leasons you have learned, heal and then move on.

Hey Visitor,

I agree and disagree at the same time... .That probably means you indeed struck a cord. I have read previous posts of yours some time ago and I know you are not the one to sugar coat. Which sometimes comes across as blunt and insulting like sirensongs experienced. My T sometimes does the same, just to snap me out of whatever I need to be snapped out of. She takes me out if my comfortzone and pushes me at times to move forward.

I can say that in my previous relationship of 4 years with a non, the breakup was completely different than with my BPDex. We had a civil conversation, it was respectfull and although he didnt want to break up he could see how our rs wasnt working out. If he were to find a new gf I would be so happy for him! I wish him all the happiness in the world!

Now for my dBPDex its a different story. I dont wish him a happy life and I know its not a good thing. But how do you wish someone a truely happy life when you could have died by his hands? I dont wanna be a victim here, dont get me wrong, but its a totally different story than a non break up. How do you say to a man that abused you, put his hands on you, lied manipulated blah blah... ."I wish you the best of lives!" I DON'T! Never will either. I am working towards indifference, thats my goal. A place where I couldnt give a rats ass about his happiness or unhappiness. I would like to go from "I detest you" to "I NOTHING you"!

My wanting his rs to fail says something about me and my place in the healing process, I get that. It says nothing about him or his new gf. Anger is a big part of the grieving and is displayed a lot here on the boards, very understandable.

So to sum it up, I do agree, but not completely; I dont think we need to work towards wishing our exes well and happiness. I think indifference and not caring is the goal. I by no means think being angry is of weak character. Its all part of the process!

[apollotech]

That was my exBPDs favorite line "I am just trying to communicate my feelings." Why was it every time she communicated her feelings it was a bashing session on how horrible and uncaring I was!  How I never thought of her or her needs. Which was bull. At the time my whole life revolved around keeping her happy... .if she wasn't happy I paid the price.

"I am just communicating my feelings" is code for you are not paying enough attention to me and I need to suck more supply from you.

That sounds an awful lot like projection. She saw herself as horrible and uncaring and not fulfilling your needs, so she passed those feelings/thoughts on to you. Unresolved shame and guilt play a key role behind the behaviors/actions of a pwBPD. That you were working to keep her happy probably triggered her guilt/shame. No doubt, it's a crazy ride with these folks.

My BPDexgf projected her anger onto me all the time. Before I understood what was going on behind the curtain her statements simply dumbfounded me. I didn't understand projection. Because a pwBPD is emotionally immature, they must dump their overwhelming emotions somewhere, hence the projections and, worse yet, the rages. Until I understood and accepted that her behavior/actions weren't about me, she kept me in emotional/intellectual turmoil. It was very cruel and hurtful until I finally, Thank God FINALLY!, saw her for who she is, and accepted her as a person with a severe mental disorder.

[JRT]

visitor

Keep in mind that we are ALL here because were are not yet over our ex's. Your pointing that out is certainly not productive to that end. Its likewise noteworthy to recognize that anger is a big part of our healing process PARTICULARLY given the context in which it is expressed. Our BPD partners had inflicted profound and lasting pain upon us of which we have the right to hate them forever.

[willtimeheal]

Visitor:

I find your reply smug and insulting.

How is that for weak character?

Hi Sirensong65

You had no place contacting his new girlfriend to warn the new woman of his impending behaviour. It was inevitable that nothing good would come of this and no doubt it was painful to get that photo they left on your car.

Befriending his ex girlfriend, contacting his new girlfriend then stalking their social media are all behaviours that will impede healing.

I understand anybody who says they want their ex's new relationship to fail miserably but these are the emotions of somebody who quite clearly are not yet over their ex.

Think of my reply as a goal to work towards not a switch that can be flicked. When you are out of the woods Im sure it will not hit a nerve as bad as it did.

I agree and disagree with this line of thinking. My forgiveness won't be for her. It will be for me. I will forgive myself for allowing this mentally disordered person to abuse me devalued me lie to me cheat on me and most importantly question worth and value.  I will forgive myself for having such a low self acceptance of myself that I allowed that to take place.

The goal for me is indifference.  When someone mentions her or I see her on the street I want to have no feeling what so ever towards her. I don't want to care if she is happy sad or miserable. I don't want her to occupy anymore time or space in my life or mind.

What goes around comes around. No one gets out of this world without their fair share of heartache. It comes at different times and in different forms but no gets out of this world without it. I don't care what her life brings her at this point... .She will pay her debts. Karma always comes around.

[sirensong65]

Hey Visitor,

Your response didn't strike a chord other than, "hey, this person is really rude... .".

This a board is where emotions and experiences are all over the place.  We are all in different stages of grief and learning.

I don't regret contacting the exes behind me.  It took that for me to put the pieces together and realize that though I was responsible for the choice to date him and get swept up, his cruel treatment of me was not my fault but his issue.  That it had happened in the exact same way with others before me.

It also helped them move forward from the pain and questioning because they were STILL feeling insecure and puzzled on how someone could do this to them and then just leave with no closure. 

Warning the new girl, I regret that one.  I was talked into that by one of the exes that said it might save her.  Because if I had listened when THAT ex reached out to me, I would have been in and out in 7 weeks and not put through the emotional hell that left me a mass depression that almost cost me my job and my life.  Unfortunately, as I should have known, she didn't believe us, just like I didn't believe the ex when she contacted me.

Lastly, I don't follow their relationship.  The others are fascinated and I think it DOES help them process what happened with them and realize this is him not necessarily THEM.

What I find really offensive is a tone in your remarks that almost judges how we have handled this situation.  As if you are some expert and can look down and see fault and WEAK character.  To me, whatever helps one get through this mess is best for THEM.  Who the hell do you think you are?  And why would anyone come to a forum and a thread where people are hurting and trying to cope, sometimes day to day, hour to hour is a challenge, and come across not as advice made to sooth and heal but to judge how they are handling their personal situation and arm chair discern what you think their character is? Get over yourself.  Maybe you are BPD.  Your narc is definitely showing, you may want to tuck that in.

Personally, when I see your name I will not read.  I think you are a ___ stirrer, every board has a few.

Enjoy that.

[willtimeheal]

We are not weak in character. We have all been put through an emotional and mental roller coaster that we never asked for. I thought I found the love of my life. The one I was going to marry have a family with and spend the rest of my life with. I was then abused lied to cheated on taken advantage of emotionally and financially. I didn't ask for it and I certainly didn't deserve the hell she put me through.

My character is not weak. I am strong. I have hit the bottom and I have clawed my way out. She on the other hand continues her destructive pattern. If hating her and wishing her next relationship fails helps me dig myself out... .I will do just that until I reach that place of indifference. For her that is a small price to pay for  the hell she put me through.

[Maternus]

I don't think it's always schadenfreude or revenge, when we want, that the relationship with our replacement fails. There are enablers around our ex-partners, who have not yet seen the pattern. And this are often people, that were our friends and who see us as the crazy badass now. The more people can see the pattern, the higher is the chance that our ex-partners can see the pattern themselves and stop breaking one heart after another and start working on their own issues. 

[sirensong65]

We are not weak in character. We have all been put through an emotional and mental roller coaster that we never asked for. I thought I found the love of my life. The one I was going to marry have a family with and spend the rest of my life with. I was then abused lied to cheated on taken advantage of emotionally and financially. I didn't ask for it and I certainly didn't deserve the hell she put me through.

My character is not weak. I am strong. I have hit the bottom and I have clawed my way out. She on the other hand continues her destructive pattern. If hating her and wishing her next relationship fails helps me dig myself out... .I will do just that until I reach that place of indifference. For her that is a small price to pay for  the hell she put me through.

Agreed, I was in a similar situation.  Devastating isn't a harsh enough word to describe what I went through.

If I could prevent another person going through that hell, I would gladly do it.  When I see the damage he has done to me and the women behind me, it makes me so sad.  Take me out of the mix, all the girls behind me were amazing and ready to settle down, have families, and he wasted their time.  At least I have already had babies, experienced marriage.  These women may never trust enough to ever find that now.  What a shame.

And he rolls on not giving a damn how he has hurt and devastated women that helped him through heart surgery, depression, put him through school, supported him while he went back to school, etc.

[Dutched]

No worries, be assured, a disorder doesn’t vanish magically by itself.

Plenty of examples if you read older post on the Board.

The disorder always wins, sooner or later (months or yrs.) the new partner, will find out. Will find out…, he/she can be forewarned but never believe it (who would, coming from an ex). 

[Dutched]

A bit of topic, however as comment on some statements made in this topic by Visitor, whom I think might need some support too.

Reading your posts, Visitor, I see a lot of anger that is hidden in self comforting harsh words when replying on topics. However these same words that may apply to your situation can’t be generalised, nor bluntly used to make (dogmatic) statements about pwBPD (spectrum disorder…) nor about our fellow members.

In fact I am reading hardly any grieve, on the contrary, based upon an earlier post in which you seemed to have a lot of

... .SCHADENFREUDE **…

I quote: ’I didn't really have much attachment with my BPD ex but I used to find it hilarious when I would send her an email and she would reply back with a completely warped and misconstrued understanding of what I was trying to say. I was accused of being nasty and name calling when there was none at all haha. So funny.’

It is certainly not my intention to act as a Board Moderator/Advisor but we are on this Board (any section) to help each other, to learn, to vent, express our anger, grieve, understand AND to have a closer look into ourselves.

As for what you expressed in words/statements, I quote some, just in order to help you to gain more understanding and to learn about yourself.

'A person with low self esteem is a perfect target for a pwBPD

You are being what is called a co-dependent enabler''

'I've only been researching for a short time and trust me I am no expert but there are only a couple of traits there I can see in the short description you have provided'

'What does splitting somebody black mean?'

'We shouldn't be offended by words like, weak, needy, low self esteem etc. They are all human traits and all things that can be worked on. We should be the harshest critics of ourselves when it comes to these negative emotions.'

You CHOSE to stay/be in that relationship. It was your CHOICE and nobody else's fault'

'We went into a recycle and it wouldn't have ended a lot worse than it did.'

'A lot of you have been "split black" or left by your partners but deep down you know it was for a reason and you know it wasn't going to work out. Even if you get back with them the relationship is doomed'

'The problem a lot of you don't seem to understand is this is what your partner REALLY WANTS.'

'I'm always impressed when I see somebody taking responsibility for himself'

'I really do just stay no contact now it's teh best thing to do'.

'I have no emotional attachment to this girl now at all. I laugh inside when I think how those emotions made me act'

'She has split me black at the moment. Should I stay no contact or talk to her about it?'

'Keep the no contact going and work on yourself'

'I'm always impressed when I see somebody taking responsibility for himself.'

So please don’t see my reply as an ‘attack’, I really hope it is useful to reread your own words in order to recognise you process of healing and to learn about yourself. We are here to help and understand, you know.

** Schadenfreude: there isn’t anything wrong with Schadenfreude, just have to understand the real meaning of this German expression.

Schadenfreude is related with joy, humor, society, culture and the perception of a kind of justice done and yes hroughout history, and even today the discussion continues, it is seen as moral wrong, even as an expression of aggression (Aristotle).

As reaction on A. Schopenhauer, Friedrich Nietzsche (in Human, all too human) answered Schopenhauer’s “malicious joy is devilish” with “All pleasure is, in itself, neither good nor bad”.  

(Despite the fast changing society (among industrialisation), he (Schopenhauer) regarded women less than 2nd degree humans (in Parerga und Paralipomena II), however seemed to live with a different moral regarding  women).

Referring Richard Trench. To understand, he wrote (On the morality of words, 1852) and lectured that in the Victorian time, a romanticised period in which virtue and high morality was emphasized. The upper part of English class-society welcomed the idea to distinguish itself, at least “to keep up appearances”.

John Portman (2000): “It is not the suffering of others that brings us joy, but rather the evidence of justice triumphing before our eyes”.

Common is “we” do not deserve to be treated as we were. However subsequently is does not imply as being the victim, we necessarily seek for revenge of any kind, nor do we wait for Schadenfreude to happen.

If, than the Schadenfreude of “moral justice” of a kind can be experienced.

Taylor and Brown (1988) say that people can tend to enjoy more Schadenfreude as self-enhancement when threatened in their self-evaluation (lower self-esteem).

Ergo, which of the above carries the most weight will depend upon the situation and person.

Common for Schadenfreude is that any harm done is small, a kind of justice is involved and WE did not cause it, nor could influence it.

[Maternus]

My native language is German and "Schadenfreude" has nothing to do with justice. It is more about revenge. Schadenfreude is unhealthy.

[Dutched]

Maternus


Für Sie als Deutscher (for you as a German), Wörterbuch, dann haben Sie recht (Dictionary, then you are right, feeling joy because of the hurt/damage of another).

Vielleicht als Unterhaltung ein interessanten Artikel  

(Maybe an interesting article to entertain)  Sorry Board, it is in German.

www.bild-der-wissenschaft.de/bdw/bdwlive/heftarchiv/index2.php?object_id=30434962

From a more scientific point of view, as explained in my posting, there is a whole lot more involved than a dogmatic statement that 'Schadenfreude is unhealthy', as the list of Schadenfreude is endless long.

Also Schadenfreude:  Candid camera, America’s funniest home videos or  ‘Mit versteckte Kamera’.

Strange in a way, we perceive these situations as joy, despite the hurt is done... .

Related to this, many on this Board experienced at least a kind of moral injustice of how a human being is capable to hurt another beyond belief.

Common is “we” do not deserve to be treated as we were. However subsequently is does not imply as being the victim, we necessarily seek for revenge of any kind, nor do we wait for Schadenfreude to happen.

If, than the Schadenfreude of “moral justice” of a kind can be experienced.

[Maternus]

Also Schadenfreude:  Candid camera, America’s funniest home videos or  ‘Mit versteckte Kamera’.

Strange in a way, we perceive these situations as joy, despite the hurt is done... .

The German version of "Candid Camera" was titled "Verstehen Sie Spaß?" - "Can you take a joke?" I don't see this shows as a sign for normalcy, they are are sign for how cluster-b-traits have changed our perception of normalcy. These shows make fun of people, who don't know, that they are in fabricated situations, who think, what they experience is real and react like it is real. It may be not that damaging like living with a cluster-b-personality for years, but it's the same thing in a smaller scale.

And no, I can't take a joke. It wasn't a joke too often in my life. 

[Maternus]

The next step from "Candid camera" to more cluster-b-driven TV-shows are casting shows like "Pop Idol", "Britains Got Talent" oder ":)eutschland sucht den Superstar". Google for "Simon Cowell Narcissist" or ":)ieter Bohlen Narzisst" - we live in a time of epidemic narcissism and it's not enough to give us the feeling of "Schadenfreude", we want to see those narcissistic bullies like Cowell or Bohlen to express our Schadenfreude better than we can.