BPD or ODD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

a family member justed asked if i thought his behaviour is more like O.D.D (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) than BPD? Anyone know the difference between the two that I can figure out. only saw a brief description of ODD and not sure that it fits completely but do know that BPD does.     

[tjay933]

a family member justed asked if i thought his behaviour is more like O.D.D (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) than BPD? Anyone know the difference between the two that I can figure out. only saw a brief description of ODD and not sure that it fits completely but do know that BPD does.     

[HappyNihilist]

ODD is only diagnosed in children.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a childhood disorder that is characterized by negative, defiant, disobedient and often hostile behavior toward adults and authority figures primarily.

Psych Central

There's more research going on about whether there should be an adult ODD considered. A lot of the same traits are found in the Cluster Bs (particularly ASPD and BPD), as well as in psychosis and sometimes in mood disorders.

There's no true "one-for-one" correlation between ODD and an adult disorder. But a lot of people diagnosed with ASPD and BPD were diagnosed ODD or had ODD traits in childhood.

Because of the nature of the ever-changing child brain, ODD can be effectively treated, and most children diagnosed with it no longer show signs in adulthood after treatment. But about 10-20% of children diagnosed with ODD go on to develop conduct disorder, which is more "serious"--

The essential feature of Conduct Disorder is a repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior by a child or teenager in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated. These behaviors fall into four main groupings: aggressive conduct that causes or threatens physical harm to other people or animals, nonaggressive conduct that causes property loss or damage, deceitfulness or theft, and serious violations of rules time and time again.

Psych Central

Of those who develop CD, about 25-40% go on to develop ASPD.

My exBPDbf was diagnosed with CD and ADD as an adolescent, and was eventually kicked out of school. He has some ASPD traits, but isn't ASPD (too much fear) -- if there were an adult ODD, though, I'd definitely say he qualified.

[livednlearned]

My son was given that dx, and his therapist pretty much breezed right past it and paid it no notice.

To me, it seems like a diagnosis about the people around the child. Not understanding, not validating, not responding in ways that help minimize conflict and stress for the child. Sometimes, kids seem defiant or stubborn when they have a learning disability or something else going on. The school nurse discovered my son needed glasses. Teachers kept saying he wasn't paying attention, but he also couldn't see the board.   He was probably more focused on the things he could see.

He also has some sensory processing issues, which can be stressful for  a kid. He was so busy trying to manage his environment that people thought he was defiant. He's not at all a defiant kid when he has some degree of control over his environment and can advocate for himself.

How old is the family member?

[tjay933]

thanks for the info.  my family referred to this site:

www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/9139.html

that describes adult ODD. anyone know anything about adult ODD or is it really not that possible in 40+ yr olds?

I went back through the BPD traits and marked off 7 of the 9 traits so in my opinion, even if he had ODD the BPD is still stronger. I guess they are still trying to figure him out same as everyone in the hopes that there is help out there that they can point him at.

[livednlearned]

I went back through the BPD traits and marked off 7 of the 9 traits so in my opinion, even if he had ODD the BPD is still stronger. I guess they are still trying to figure him out same as everyone in the hopes that there is help out there that they can point him at.

Of the 9 traits, which are the 2 not checked off?

I understand the desire to figure out what, exactly, people should be labeled. But even though I read exhaustively about ODD, OCD, ADHD, bipolar, depression, anxiety, sensory processing, highly sensitive people -- I still feel like there is no way we can diagnose people off the Internet. If you sit and talk to an experienced, capable psychiatrist, you realize how complex this stuff is.

For example, say he seems ODD, but he has paranoia and major mood swings. He could be bipolar II. He could be ADHD/ODD and have sensory processing disorder, plus psychotic depression. On and on. Only someone who has good diagnostic skills and years of experience would know. And even someone who does psych evals has to be trained in interpreting the results.

Plus, so many of the skills used to minimize conflict with pwBPD can apply to ADHD or ODD, so from that perspective, it's a similar approach, no?

[tjay933]

don't know if it is the same approach but at least its something.

his recent T diagnosed him after 1-2 visits with adhd and aspie. he has seen several and if they don't agree with him they are quacks. maybe this one figured out what he wanted to be told to keep him from bolting to the next one so that maybe he can help? his family says "no, that's not it" which makes sense since his T only diagnosed based on what HE told his T and that was what HE wanted to be diagnosed with. also, from what we have all looked up on aspies, they have some traits that are directly opposite to what he is like and from some BPDs. even if he was an aspie, when i look it up, he doesn't show enough of the traits. somewhere in his mind those are "good" diagnosis to have. i think in his opinion having those are thought of as "better and smarter" than ordinary people.   he does have delusions of grandeur.

i really don't care what the diagnosis is named as long as there is a way to deal with it and heal from it and have some understanding of what/why he is the way he is. and maybe to get him to stop some of the FOG and blame and manipulation and controlling and raging. what i am curious about is if anyone here had heard of this and what their take on how it might differ from BPD. his family is very much into knowledge and knowing what is what to an extreme-to the point that it becomes an obsession with them almost. they know every fancy name in the book for a "back ache" and they have it. they like finding the problem but overlook how to overcome/deal with it. i'd rather ignore the label and deal with the overcoming part. the label is just there to give you a place to start imo.

I may just be giving him the benefit of the doubt but the two traits of the nine that i don't see in him or that he has verbally expressed are: "impulsive or dangerous behaviour" apart from suicide threats which i don't think is included in this category and self medicating otc to the extreme. maybe he does check off on that one i don't know? the other is "chronic feelings of emptiness and boredom". he hasn't verbally expressed those feelings but may still have them. all the rest he had exhibited and or verbalized repeatedly over time so that i feel confident that it is BPD. one counsellor we went to almost said the words. she asked him if he had ever heard of BPD. he said yes. i knew nothing and was too emotionally frail at the time to question it or for it to be more than a few words with no meaning. i know i'm not qualified to diagnose but to get him to a proper diagnosis may be impossible at best and at least this give me a place to start for working with it.

he was diagnosed with various other physical and mental ailments as well that he is on a host of presc meds for-is trying to come off of them currently as he feels they are the issue/problem. who knows. i just know that he exhibits and acts the same as any/all BPDs that i've read/heard about down to a tee. it was scary at first because if felt like someone had been a fly on the wall during all of our problems and wrote about them in book after book after book without getting our consent. 

[tjay933]

i almost forgot. when he was first told by family that they thought he had this(I know we shouldn't have)-he agreed and saw all 9 of the criteria in himself. of course this was followed by his "you have to be nicer to me because of this" speech. he later changed his mind.