Three Major Symptoms of pwBPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

I came across this today. It really sums this disorder up and I want to get some input from other SO's.

The work is When Hope is Not Enough by Bon Dobbs. In it, he defines the three major symptoms of BPD and how they work together:

First is emotional disregulation. The pwBPD is highly emotional and easily upset by anything they think threatens them. Often, their perception of the situation is not even accurate, but in their mind they are under attack.

This leads to the second symptom, impulsive behavior. The pwBPD impulsively reacts to the perceived threat in an over the top, negative fashion. They are dysregulated and cannot control their emotions.

Then comes the third symptom, shame. The pwBPD will eventually calm down, look at their behavior, and realize it was wrong. But instead of guilt over their actions, they feel shame over what they are. This pervasive shame is the most powerful thing they deal with.

I realized how powerful this core shame is this morning when my wife told me what a horrible person she is because of the way she acted at my grandmother's funeral. She remembers every detail of every horrible thing she said or did that day. That was over a year ago and I have never said anything about it to her. But she replays it in her mind with great shame even to this day.

Agree? Disagree? What do you see in your SO with BPD? Is there a way to help them with their core shame?      

[Cole]

I came across this today. It really sums this disorder up and I want to get some input from other SO's.

The work is When Hope is Not Enough by Bon Dobbs. In it, he defines the three major symptoms of BPD and how they work together:

First is emotional disregulation. The pwBPD is highly emotional and easily upset by anything they think threatens them. Often, their perception of the situation is not even accurate, but in their mind they are under attack.

This leads to the second symptom, impulsive behavior. The pwBPD impulsively reacts to the perceived threat in an over the top, negative fashion. They are dysregulated and cannot control their emotions.

Then comes the third symptom, shame. The pwBPD will eventually calm down, look at their behavior, and realize it was wrong. But instead of guilt over their actions, they feel shame over what they are. This pervasive shame is the most powerful thing they deal with.

I realized how powerful this core shame is this morning when my wife told me what a horrible person she is because of the way she acted at my grandmother's funeral. She remembers every detail of every horrible thing she said or did that day. That was over a year ago and I have never said anything about it to her. But she replays it in her mind with great shame even to this day.

Agree? Disagree? What do you see in your SO with BPD? Is there a way to help them with their core shame?      

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[Notwendy]

Shame... it's awful.

I know it, because I grew up with it, and if my own shame is triggered, I can feel it.

What helped me was getting help for co-dependency and help for being raised by a mom with BPD.

What I think is a difference is how one perceives it. I know that when mine is triggered, I feel it. It is my feeling. I know where it came from. Someone may trigger it, but they didn't cause it. It had to be there to be triggered.

However, the pwBPD perceives it as coming from somewhere else. If you trigger it, you are the cause. Or they project it onto someone/thing- paint it black. I think the painting black is projected shame.

Your wife would not feel like a horrible person because of how she acted at the funeral if she didn't already feel like a horrible person. If I acted badly, I would say " I acted badly". not "I am bad".

I try to be careful with raising kids. If my H made a mistake, he was told he was worthless, not that he made an error that could be fixed. We have to be careful to say " I don't like that you and Billy broke something when you were playing rough in the living room" instead of " I don't like you, you are stupid, look what you did" which is what my H heard. So, if I confront him with something all he hears is " I'm worthless".

I think at the heart of it, is shame.

[sweetheart]

Hello Cole,

I read this book in 2013, I was in a really desperate emotional place. To date it is for me one of the best self help books on BPD out there.

I remember memorising and rehearsing some of the examples in it and it really helped me stabilise my emotions and start to feel more grounded.

This book was a starting place for me and at times of high stress I still reread it. This book combined with How to Stop Caretaking the BPD/NPD... .equipped me with some really important coping strategies and additional information.

I also agree with the three main issues for pwBPD, they fit my h to a t.

There is a great thread which is quite recent started by waverider about shame that I shall have a look for.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271703.0 found it!

[Cole]

There is a great thread which is quite recent started by waverider about shame that I shall have a look for.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271703.0 found it!

Found it also.

Dang! Talk about being right on!

This list could be written about my wife. Her mother is one of those parents who took any little thing my wife did wrong as a child to the extreme. She would go so far as to call her mother (wife's grandmother), tell her about it, then stick her on the phone for further admonishment. Cannot imagine a child going through this. Her dad just stood by and let it happen.

When wife was 15, her mother told her to find and screw the first guy that comes along, because no decent guy would want anything to do with her. Again, her dad did nothing to protect her from her mother.   

Wonder why she has shame issues? The sad part is my wife still tries to earn her parents' acceptance and respect, which she is never going to get.

[Cole]

However, the pwBPD perceives it as coming from somewhere else. If you trigger it, you are the cause. Or they project it onto someone/thing- paint it black. I think the painting black is projected shame.

Interesting take about projection and painting it black. May explain why she has painted me black; she has told me many times she feels like she is not good enough for me. I am the cause of the shame by default. 

[OffRoad]

If my H made a mistake, he was told he was worthless, not that he made an error that could be fixed.

This is gold for your kids. To teach them we all make mistakes, learn what we can from them and do whatever is possible to make it right. My S still tries to hide his mistakes, so when I find out (as I always do), the first thing I ask him is if he wants to fix it. The answer is always yes. Then I let him brainstorm ways to work it out.

That's harder for the adult BPD, though. Admitting to any mistake is tantamount to admitting he/she is worthless. I didn't get this for many years (because I had no idea about BPD until recently). I kept thinking that if we just ID the mistake and fix it, everything would be OK.

For example, I'd say "Oh, so you didn't have time to fix the other side of the roof and that's why it's leaking? OK, let's go fix that."  Since he knows he didn't do the other side because he took a break to play video games and forgot to finish, and also forgot to tell me he didn't finish, in his shame he hears: "The house is flooding because you failed." To me, there was no shame, just a mistake and a misunderstanding. Let's fix it, it's all better. To him, he needed for me to be the bad person for noticing that something he was supposed to do didn't get done. If I wasn't the bad guy, he had to be, and that couldn't be or he'd be worthless.

I really think shame should be the first symptom, too, because I think the shame is what causes the disregulation in the first place. If they think they will be abandoned, it's because they fear that they are not worth someone staying with them, therefore they must be a bad person (shame).  If they think someone is accusing them of something, they must be a bad person (shame). If someone points out a mistake, they must be a bad person because they are not perfect (shame). It almost seems like an endless loop sometimes.

[Cole]

I really think shame should be the first symptom, too, because I think the shame is what causes the disregulation in the first place. If they think they will be abandoned, it's because they fear that they are not worth someone staying with them, therefore they must be a bad person (shame).  If they think someone is accusing them of something, they must be a bad person (shame). If someone points out a mistake, they must be a bad person because they are not perfect (shame). It almost seems like an endless loop sometimes.

So, you are saying this is cyclical? Very valid point. 

Shame ---> dysreg ---> impulsive behavior ---> shame ---> etc... .

[OffRoad]

I'm saying that it is what I see in my H and S (both undiagnosed, but at this point I am sure both are BPD). Since BPD is still pretty new to me (I've been learning about it for about a month, but it fits my H to a "T", I don't have a lot of comparison with any other pwBPD. The only way to break them out of the cycle is to validate that whatever feelings they have are OK to have (whether they are based on reality or not). It IS scary to feel like people are leaving you. It IS uncomfortable to admit a mistake. And that is OK to feel that way.

[Notwendy]

I see the impulsive behavior as part of the "drama triangle". While different people can play all three roles, so can one person act the three roles within themselves.

Trigger ----( persecutor) - shame ( persecutes self), dysregulation- (feels like victim), impulsive behavior (rescuing self by: raging back, shopping, drinking, any addiction ) ----