Empathizing and validating without being a pushover

[flowerpath]

I mentioned in another thread that I went to professional conference where one speaker gave a presentation about difficult people.  The speaker said that insults, put-downs, and rude comments, sometimes in the form of sarcastic humor, are reflections of jealousy and insecurity, and that people do it because they want to make you look bad or feel bad. 

So for a BPD, is this behavior is rooted in the need for appreciation, approval, and attention and how they may also feel shame about something in their own lives or feel anger or resentfulness toward us (or somebody else) for not providing the kind of emotional support they need?

I’m wondering how the speaker’s suggestions for being assertive can blend with how there is an element of truth in some of those comments (even though it's not fun for us to admit), and how they’re a reflection of the BPD’s feelings.   I know it’s important to be empathetic and validate their feelings, but is it also appropriate to stand our ground to those out-of-the-blue hurtful comments that blindside us like this:

- Be aware of your attitude and careful that your reaction doesn’t give them power and motivate them to keep doing it.

- Bring the person out from hiding (behind their words) and deal with it directly and assertively:  Backtrack to exactly what they said.  “When you say ____, what are you really trying to say?”  (Or like Formflier’s question  -  “Help me understand what you mean when you say______?” )

- Hold your ground and state your bottom line: “When you say ____, it makes me feel ______, and it’s difficult to have a trusting relationship…”  etc…   (And will the BPD even care how you feel about it when it's all about how they feel?)

It just seems like there’s a very fine line between empathizing and validating, and not being a pushover. 

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[Mustbeabetterway]

Maybe SET would be the right tool.  

For example:  sympathy - I know you like for me to go to bed at the same time as you.  Empathy - I understand that you feel lonely when you go to bed and I am still up. Truth - But, I am really interested in this book and I want to read the next chapter before I come to bed.  

Sympathy - I am sorry that your lunch plans didn't work out.  Empathy - It is not much fun eating by yourself.  Truth - I can't get away for lunch because I am busy working on a project.  See you at home this afternoon.

It is validation, but helps you to also take care of your own needs.  

Probably will work for hurtful comment, as well.

I am going to practice it and see.


What do you think?

[flowerpath]

Yep, I was thinking S.E.T. too before I wrote that, so I guess the assertiveness comes in at the T part.

Here's a recent example:

I woke up very early this morning, got some chores done, and except for taking some short breaks, I've worked on my job-related work all day and evening long.  Everyone did lunch on their own and we did take-out for supper, so in the kitchen today I've used only a cup, a bowl, and two utensils, and I put those away after I used them.

We were expecting someone to come over late this evening, so I asked everyone to please clean up what they'd left lying around on the kitchen counters and in the sink because I needed to finish my report.  My husband balked about it and I was so surprised.  What I asked was pretty simple. 

Why am I still so surprised after all this time? 

I was so caught off guard that I didn't say anything sympathetic or empathetic.  I guess what I did was a knee-jerk JADE disguised as Truth.  I responded that I hadn't made the mess and needed to finish my report, so I'd like for everyone to clean up after themselves.  Yep, I could have said it differently. 

My H's response was, "Stop making up excuses!"  Me?  Speechless.    Half the time I have no words. 

[Mustbeabetterway]

Flowerpath, I know what you mean when you ask, "Why am I surprised after all this time?"  For years when my uBPDh would become dysregulated I would think I can't believe he said that, did that, etc. 

I think it was because I still expected him to change.  I am VERY patient, but after 30 something years I finally decided to get a new plan of action. 

Have you read How to Stop Caretaking the BPD/NPD in Your Life?  It helped me to accept the fact that he was probably not going to make significant changes.  I think this propelled me into Acceptance and out of Denial.

I was tired of being surprised.  Prepared is much better than shocked, surprised, etc. 

I feel positive about the changes I am making.  The relationship cannot stay the same when one person changes.

Also, in any relationship, BPD or not, you have to pick your battles.  How  important is a clean kitchen in the whole scheme of things?  If his dishes were the only dirty ones when so some came over to visit, what would happen? 

[flowerpath]

If his dishes were the only dirty ones when so some came over to visit, what would happen? 

The sky would fall!       

I haven't read Stop Caretaking... .  I need to read it because I had resigned myself to the caretaker role.  I thought that with BPD, that was just a given. 

Most of the time I feel as if I am prepared for anything he might do or say.  If I hadn't been thinking about myself and how I was trying to get that work for my job done, maybe I'd have had some empathy for him when he first balked at cleaning up his mess.  And if I hadn't been so focused on my work, I wouldn't have been surprised when he barked at me. 

[Mustbeabetterway]

Well if the sky fell, nobody would notice a few dishes

Seriously, I don't think you should feel bad about focusing on your work.  That is one of the things that Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist How to End the Drama and Get on With Life by Margalis Fjelstad, PhD asserts is that caretakers stay focused on the BPD so that they are not able to focus on themselves. 

Caretaking is not a given.  I thought so, too.  But, there are other choices.  Better choices for you, your kids and spouse. 

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Remember, BPD is not your fault.  You didn't cause it and you can't cure it. 

Wishing you peace... .

[misuniadziubek]

Flowerpath, I know what you mean when you ask, "Why am I surprised after all this time?"  For years when my uBPDh would become dysregulated I would think I can't believe he said that, did that, etc. 

I think it was because I still expected him to change.  I am VERY patient, but after 30 something years I finally decided to get a new plan of action. 

Have you read How to Stop Caretaking the BPD/NPD in Your Life?  It helped me to accept the fact that he was probably not going to make significant changes.  I think this propelled me into Acceptance and out of Denial.

I was tired of being surprised.  Prepared is much better than shocked, surprised, etc. 

I feel positive about the changes I am making.  The relationship cannot stay the same when one person changes.

Also, in any relationship, BPD or not, you have to pick your battles.  How  important is a clean kitchen in the whole scheme of things?  If his dishes were the only dirty ones when so some came over to visit, what would happen? 

This really hit a nerve with me. The right nerve. See I grab onto these little moments of change with my boyfriend and I've only been with him for a year and a half now. I convince myself that he's going to get better and forget that I'm the one who is actually supposed to get better.  It's the 30 years thing that really got me. Because I have felt so bad that I haven't gotten far enough in my own development to really help the situation.

I got the book from the library instantly and even leafing through it is giving me a greater sense of empowerment.

I haven't read Stop Caretaking... .  I need to read it because I had resigned myself to the caretaker role.  I thought that with BPD, that was just a given. 

Most of the time I feel as if I am prepared for anything he might do or say.  If I hadn't been thinking about myself and how I was trying to get that work for my job done, maybe I'd have had some empathy for him when he first balked at cleaning up his mess.  And if I hadn't been so focused on my work, I wouldn't have been surprised when he barked at me. 

Resigning to a caretaker role seems like the default in a lot of Non/BPD relationships as far as I see. We think that as long as we play that role we'll make the situation better. We yearn to be successful in helping them. I think that this sort of attitude might be helpful in a relationship with a NON if it happens only in rare situations throughout your relationship, when your partner going through some sort of low in their life and needs you more than usual. In a relationship with a BPD the opposite is true. They don't react to those actions the same way a non would.

I was recently reading "Born to Love" by Bruce Perry and he was talking about a study done on BPDs where they theorised that BPD's are more sensitive to other people's emotions. They had BPDs interact with Nons and indeed the BPDs read the Nons better than the Nons read them. The reason? The Nons failed at predicting the behaviour of BPDs. The borderline patients only seemed better because it was so difficult for other people to understand and empathise with them because their mind works so differently. And yet, they can read nons easily. :P Seems so unfair.

You can only take responsibility for yourself and not the reaction of your h. You can't make your h see things your way and force him to be logical. You can spend time thinking 'if only' all day but all your doing is making yourself feel worse, guiltier for something that isn't actually in your control. You need to focus on yourself and your own needs. Sometimes that is going to overlap into your interaction and affect it and you won't be prepared but you deal with it in the moment and then forget about it.