Who here found that when you stood up to her

[Warney]

Who here found that when you stood up to her and challenged her , that the relationship got worse and ended quickly.

Took about 4 weeks for me from i wont accept your crap to me leaving and saying good bye.

This was after 3 years of being a good boy .

[downwhim]

At the end of our relationship I set a boundary. I would not allow him to rage at me. So when he started I left. The only time I did not leave was when I was trapped in the car. He hated this boundary. It brought on abandonment.

He then used the silent treatment and when he did talk it was short answers. He could not communicate his feelings and so there was either nothing or yelling at the end.

I just left when he refused to talk and one day later he sent me an email stating the engagement was off and we were through.

Boundaries stir the borderline up. They like control.

[Seriously?]

As soon  as I found out some really bad things my husband was doing and called him out on them, he started devaluing me. A month later, it was all over and apparently all my fault, too. I didn't hear from him for almost 7 months. When I did, we talked and spent some time together for about 4 weeks and went to counseling once. It was still all my fault. I believe the shame they feel when we bring up bad behavior or place boundaries cannot really be overcome. We will be a trigger forever because we remind them of that shame and self-loathing. They cannot live with those feelings and cut us out, paint us black, and move onto someone who will validate them.

[Copperfox]

PwBPD also react very negatively to any criticism.  So when you start standing up for yourself, you take on the "punitive parent" role in their eyes.

BPD is a persecution complex, they are always the victim, the abandoned child ... .and when you stand up for yourself or criticize their behavior, you are simply playing out the movie that's been playing and replaying in their minds since long before you met them.

[downwhim]

I agree, they paint us black quickly after we set boundaries. I was totally devalued. No talking, no intimacy, no sex, no calling, nothing... .I was now a bad, terrible person because I refused to be yelled at.

[AwakenedOne]

1. I refused to allow her to constantly call me by the name -> "F**ker"

2. I refused to ride in a car with her any time she raged, even if that meant I had to walk home.

3. I refused to be a slave to her needs.

She then abandoned our "marriage".

[Restored2]

Definitely things got more intense slipping into the downward spiral when I stood up to her and challenged her on some stuff in our relationship.  Shortly thereafter she abruptly broke up with me, claiming that I was controlling her and our relationship and that she would not tolerate it anymore.  I do not recall her ever mentioning any concern of me controlling her before. 

[GrowThroughIt]

Like everyone else posting on this thread, my ex broke things off when I (finally!) asserted my boundaries.

Two things that come to mind from that;

1) A healthy individual would value that in a person (ie they are strong enough to support you but will set up boundaries if you go too far.)

2) We shouldn't feel the need to be with someone who wants us to be a doormat and does not respect that we (just like them) have emotions and feelings. They unfairly cry foul whenever they can (which is most of the time) but lambast us if we cry foul (even though we put up with it for so long). I would say pwN/BPD are emotional bullies.

Good riddance to bad blood... .

[Mutt]

I had floating boundaries and didn't adhere to mine. The first boundary that caused major issues and I think it was a pivot point in the relationship was the way she treated me in front of here family.

What I grew tired of over several years was that she'd pick fights and denigrate me in front of her family, mom, dad, sister, friends of the family. We'd often take the kids to see the grandparents on weekends and they lived several hours away.

I detested how I felt humiliated in front of family and it was like she had a different persona. It's speculation, perhaps she was triangulating me in front of family and was victim and I was persecutor and family members were rescuers.

I met her in '05 and this was going on when they'd visit and vice versa and by 2011 I was dreading days off, vacations and social settings because I felt like the other shoe would drop. I didn't know what day she'd try to pick a fight about something I had no idea of what she was talking about.  

If I had a couple days off from work or a weekend visit at the in-laws she'd instigate something and often she was dysregulated right before the drive. I think she had anxiety and if I had to guess it was her mom which she would split black on and off.

It was Thanksgiving and she was dysregulate and I said "I can't deal with this anymore when your like this and you embarrass me in front of your family and pick fights, I'm staying home She took the kids and drove to her family and I didn't hear from her for a couple of days. I get a call from her mom and  I felt guilt. I think her mom was rescuing her and when my wife got back she was livid for a few days.

From that Thanksgiving forward things became more intense, unpredictable and the devaluation periods longer; idealization periods shorter.

That being said, it was my first real boundary 6 years after meeting her and it was havoc. I grew tiresome of how I was treated in front of my kids and in-laws. I stuck up for myself.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

It was outright hell standing up to them and constantly having to put up boundaries after they smashed through them time and again. Looking back, it had to be done and I should have done it earlier. It taught me a lifelong lesson, you have a choice, for better or worse.

[Perfidy]

Ok, so I stood "up" to her every time she talked down to me. If I could have known then, it would have been a one night stand.

[misty_red]

When she started attacking me indirectly for my aspergers (she knew that this was a huge problem for me, it has been all my life and I've told her from the beginning of our relationship) I began to defend myself and said something like "It's not very nice to attack me because of... .". I did not justify bad behaviour with the excuse of being asperger, this situation was completely different. I emotionally misinterpreted a situation and she made fun of that. So I told her that I didn't like what she said about me and then hell broke loose. That was the day I got the final discard.

I guess they need to paint you blacker the more they are ashamed of what they did. When children get called out on their misbehaviour they are angry at you but also very ashamed of what they did. But because you made them feel ashamed of theirselves they rage at you. Because you caught them in doing something "bad". I do know the exact feeling from childhood - and if it indeed is similar to that it feels like you've been eaten alive by shame. I think it's similar with BPD.

[downnout98]

Definitely things got more intense slipping into the downward spiral when I stood up to her and challenged her on some stuff in our relationship.  Shortly thereafter she abruptly broke up with me, claiming that I was controlling her and our relationship and that she would not tolerate it anymore.  I do not recall her ever mentioning any concern of me controlling her before. 

I was a very loving, kind, patient person with her when we first started. She said she loved that about me. I think I understand why now. That's because she was always getting her way. After a while I started to stand up for myself, and when I did, there was hell to pay. It usually meant that she would break up with me of that she would start looking for my replacement.

I stood up to her concerning my daughter and that is the reason we are no longer together. It sucks that she couldn't understand that this world does not just revolve around her.

[going places]

The first 10 years of the marriage, I tried everything... .E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G

Reasoning, compromising, screaming, crying, bargaining, leaving, etc.

No, I tried, everything... .

At the 10 year mark, I gave up.

I just gave him whatever he wanted, and said nothing.

The next 12 years he got everything he wanted because I didn't want to deal with the pouting, or silent treatment, or the full blown temper tantrums.

Then I caught him having an affair.

NOW I did everything he wanted + 100.

That lasted for 1 year.

Then I opened up. I spoke to my doc.

I went to an abuse advocate.

Once I started learning IT'S NOT ME... .and what I was enduring was abuse?

He knew the gig was up.

And he didn't care, he had a replacement waiting in the wings.

He just wanted me to file for divorce, and me to throw him out, so he could milk that sympathy from his new trick and everyone else... .

I'd like to say he 'checked out' years ago... .but baby... .he never checked in.

I was 100% all in... .head first in the deep end.

He didn't even come out of the pool house.

Good riddance tool!

[downwhim]

Mutt, I was just with a couple this weekend where the wife constantly criticized her husband. He had a heart attack and lost some mental capacity. It was said to me. As I read your post, I can see how hard and necessary it was for you to stop the craziness and quit going to the in-laws. The probably triggered her and she took it all out on you!

[Trog]

I think for a lot of us the whole relationship could be avoided if we'd gone in with healthy boundaries and the right focus, and wouldn't have got to the point where we eventually grew a back bone and everything fell down.

It does hurt, staying loyal and putting all your chips in the relationship to see that if you push back a little, they let the whole thing fall down and you realise that it meant the world to you and surely less than to them. The words keep us stuck.

[nowwhatz]

My boundaries were not the best.  Toward the point when was getting ready to move out of my house last Nov I was really getting tired of her and there was mutual indifference.

Then in December about a week or so before christmas I challenged her mainly by asking her "what am I getting out the the r/s?" and brought up a few choice examples of her carelessness. Her answer to my question was "you get me!"  and I replied "that's it?"

On christmas eve we mutually broke it off but it was a break up in name only.

Within 2 weeks we were in a romantic r/s again calling it "friends" ... .it was intense and ended up burning me because my feelings for her came back.

To answer the question on the thread more clearly... .I officially stood up to her exactly 2 weeks ago and ended it for real over a 2 day period.  I told her I would never have sex with her again until she produced an std screening test and even then would probably not, even with 5 condoms (insulting I supposed but she needed to hear it).  

All of this got to her and I honestly think the next night she was ready to start making amends in some way... .but I surprised her by being cold as ice and telling her I don't want to see her "for a long time" and that "I can't trust you and there has to be mutual trust and caring even in a friendship... .and there is none" and probably what really got to her is telling he I don't feel safe with her.

Her reaction was that she went catatonic and it has been pretty much silent treatment since.

Telling her I don't feel safe with her had to have been a huge shocker... .if any guy in the world could feel safe with her it was me... .because I was willing to overlook almost all and forgive no matter what.  I have always been there for her, always.

What kind of guy can she get now? She is now a convicted felon, has to pay back 25k in restitution, is on probation until that is paid (the rest of her life) and certified by the state as having a serious mental illness.

[downnout98]

My exBPDgf told me that one of the things that hurt her the most when we broke up was that I didn't feel safe and couldn't trust the relationship. That was one of the reasons I told her I was staying away. Staying away as in not moving back in right away. When I found out she started dating another guy when we were trying to work things out, I then told her that she betrayed my trust. She got so upset that she went full swing with this guy and he moved in.

Those were truthful statements but they seemed to push her further away.

[nowwhatz]

My exBPDgf told me that one of the things that hurt her the most when we broke up was that I didn't feel safe and couldn't trust the relationship. That was one of the reasons I told her I was staying away. Staying away as in not moving back in right away. When I found out she started dating another guy when we were trying to work things out, I then told her that she betrayed my trust. She got so upset that she went full swing with this guy and he moved in.

Those were truthful statements but they seemed to push her further away.

I said almost the same thing and although I am in a lot of pain and miss what I loved about her I am counting on the statements to keep her pushed away.

[Infared]

Yes my expwBPD doe not do well with being confronted with her behaviors.

If I brought up:

That she lied to me.

That she cheated on me.

That she was mean.

That she was vindictive.

That she was cruel.

She would lash out at me, and deny her behavior (which was blatant) or somehow try to blame it on me.

I was calm.  I wanted to discuss these things to reach some kind of understanding or awareness... .and after enduring the pain of the transgression and then having the fortitude and love to try to reach out and discuss these painful things in an adult manner,  what I got back was the behavior of a spoiled 6-year old?  ... .I also got more lies, half truths, omissions and denials of obvious facts.

There just is no working with that type of behavior. There is no closure reached between the two of you either.  I certainly cannot have any respect for her, That's  just not possible.

It's sad to feel this for someone that you loved so much... .but they do not give you much choice. It's an ugly experience. I just try to pray on it. There is nothing to be done at my end , but to just stay away from the storm.  

I have to keep reminding myself that it is mental illness or just human frailty or something. There is nothing rational there. There is no logic... .just craziness. It's unsettling.

[Recooperating]

I slowly changed from doormat to magic carpet and he hated it

The minute I would set the smallest of boundaries he raged and rantes like a 4 year old being denied candy.

Eventually I took of on my magic carpet and he replaced it with another doormat.

Wash rinse repeat... .

[apollotech]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. From the post that I have read so far, it appears (correct me if I am wrong here) that as soon as the abused (the Non) refuses to be abused, the relationship, at that point, is terminated by the abuser (the pwBPD)? And here I was believing (due to my wonderful BPDexgf's guidance on and examples of the following issues) that I was the only person alive that didn't appreciate infidelity, dishonesty, unfounded mistrust, chaos, instability, unreliability, control, cruelty, marginalization, triangulation, guilting, raging, selfishness, juvenile communication, refusal of responsibility, manipulation, etc. in a relationship. How silly of me not to admire (no, worship) a SO who did indeed bring those admirable qualities into our relationship! (Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself!)

[downnout98]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. From the post that I have read so far, it appears (correct me if I am wrong here) that as soon as the abused (the Non) refuses to be abused, the relationship, at that point, is terminated by the abuser (the pwBPD)? And here I was believing (due to my wonderful BPDexgf's guidance on and examples of the following issues) that I was the only person alive that didn't appreciate infidelity, dishonesty, unfounded mistrust, chaos, instability, unreliability, control, cruelty, marginalization, triangulation, guilting, raging, selfishness, juvenile communication, refusal of responsibility, manipulation, etc. in a relationship. How silly of me not to admire (no, worship) a SO who did indeed bring those admirable qualities into our relationship! (Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself!)

My exBPDgf actually said that those things were normal in a relationship. That they were just issues that could be worked out and that she didn't know a single couple that didn't have issues. I tried to explain to her that being broken up with overs and overs again was not normal. She down played it and said again that everyone has issues. She truly believed that all was normal despite what her friends and family would tell her. I guess it was also normal to grieve a 3 year relationship in just a few weeks and then have my replacement move in right away. Lol.

[Infared]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. From the post that I have read so far, it appears (correct me if I am wrong here) that as soon as the abused (the Non) refuses to be abused, the relationship, at that point, is terminated by the abuser (the pwBPD)? And here I was believing (due to my wonderful BPDexgf's guidance on and examples of the following issues) that I was the only person alive that didn't appreciate infidelity, dishonesty, unfounded mistrust, chaos, instability, unreliability, control, cruelty, marginalization, triangulation, guilting, raging, selfishness, juvenile communication, refusal of responsibility, manipulation, etc. in a relationship. How silly of me not to admire (no, worship) a SO who did indeed bring those admirable qualities into our relationship! (Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself!)

My exBPDgf actually said that those things were normal in a relationship. That they were just issues that could be worked out and that she didn't know a single couple that didn't have issues. I tried to explain to her that being broken up with overs and overs again was not normal. She down played it and said again that everyone has issues. She truly believed that all was normal despite what her friends and family would tell her. I guess it was also normal to grieve a 3 year relationship in just a few weeks and then have my replacement move in right away. Lol.

That was one of the hardest things to accept. There was no grieving or sadness on her part at all.  After a five year relTionship mine lined up a replacement and ran out the door to him. She just discarded me and ridiculed me. There was no concern for me unless she had to "act" that way in front of others because it is expected of normal people in a breakup... .she showed me nothing but contempt and anger when no one else was there.  She was smug and it was so obvious that she was enjoying herself that she was causing me so much pain.  I have never been through anything like that in my life and I never ever want to have to feel that kind of evil ever again.

[Trog]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. From the post that I have read so far, it appears (correct me if I am wrong here) that as soon as the abused (the Non) refuses to be abused, the relationship, at that point, is terminated by the abuser (the pwBPD)? And here I was believing (due to my wonderful BPDexgf's guidance on and examples of the following issues) that I was the only person alive that didn't appreciate infidelity, dishonesty, unfounded mistrust, chaos, instability, unreliability, control, cruelty, marginalization, triangulation, guilting, raging, selfishness, juvenile communication, refusal of responsibility, manipulation, etc. in a relationship. How silly of me not to admire (no, worship) a SO who did indeed bring those admirable qualities into our relationship! (Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself!)

My exBPDgf actually said that those things were normal in a relationship. That they were just issues that could be worked out and that she didn't know a single couple that didn't have issues. I tried to explain to her that being broken up with overs and overs again was not normal. She down played it and said again that everyone has issues. She truly believed that all was normal despite what her friends and family would tell her. I guess it was also normal to grieve a 3 year relationship in just a few weeks and then have my replacement move in right away. Lol.

I remember in the early days she tried to triangulate a lot and it was the only boundary I was strong on so that behaviour did fade with sexual partners, however, she would then draw me into triangulation instead with her sisters. I remember in those early days she would contact old romantic partners of mine, as well as hers, and be flirting with people in the street and if I were to be annoyed it was like I was crazy and controlling. It was a total mindfrek, I actually ended up feeling bad for complaining about being triangulated and then felt very insecure.

I know for sure if a woman came onto me in a club I would back away straight away so as not to hurt or upset my wife, if it were the other way around I would see her smirking and enjoying the attention but it wasn't for what she was getting from them, it was from the reaction she hoped to get from me. Once a couple friend of ours came over for a BBQ and the guy got a bit drunk and kissed her on the lips as they were leaving (infront of his wife too!), when I complained about that behaviour afterwards I was accused of trying to ruin her friendship with his wife!

Up is down, left is right, And the care and consideration you give your partners as a default does not come back, the words they say are sometimes on the money and sometimes crazy and you end up utterly confused and broken. It is torture. Actually. It's a form of mental torture that has been used to break before. It's sick and I believe we have all been mentally scared, to be involved with a BPD/npd turns your world upside down, I'd even say some of us have PTSD, and it's hidden from society. We just look like jerks who put up with abusive wives, it's more cunning than that. Anyway, sometimes I think it pays to be reminded, this is no small thing, it's mental cruelty and abuse and we need to be very kind with our hearts and minds just like we would a broken leg if someone had deliberately run us down.

[going places]

That was one of the hardest things to accept. There was no grieving or sadness on her part at all.  After a five year relTionship mine lined up a replacement and ran out the door to him. She just discarded me and ridiculed me. There was no concern for me unless she had to "act" that way in front of others because it is expected of normal people in a breakup... .she showed me nothing but contempt and anger when no one else was there.  She was smug and it was so obvious that she was enjoying herself that she was causing me so much pain.  I have never been through anything like that in my life and I never ever want to have to feel that kind of evil ever again.

If you changed all the "her"'s to "him" and the 5 year to 25 year... .you have exactly described what I experienced.

I find it amazing that there are others out there like my ex... .male and female.

[Invictus01]

She split me over night (and I have NO idea for what, we never even had an argument or a disagreement in 6 months we dated) and then over a period of two weeks went on this weird behavior streak where she would get drunk and party every other day. Our communication went to almost nothing from 150 texts/day I used to get from her. It was hurting me but I didn't want to show it, didn't want to be that jealous possessive guy. After a couple of weeks I just couldn't take it anymore and since I thought I was in an adult relationship and adults talk to each other and figure things out, I decided to gently ask her to tell me what was going. So, I sent her a text saying that I knew she was going through tough things at work and a lot of stress in life, but if she wanted to talk about anything, I was there for her because I really cared about her. THAT text was enough for her to drop me over night. I didn't hear anything from her that day (for the first time in 6 months) and the next day she dumped me with a text where she called me her "good friend". It was so surreal, even all my friends were shocked and awed by this display of craziness... .

[.cup.car]

Saying the phrase "we need to talk" usually began the sequence of events leading to a split.

[Gonzalo]

I don't think she consciously understood what was going on when I started to set firm boundaries. She seemed really confused when I started just saying 'no, I'm not going to do that' or 'no, I'm not going to continue this conversation until you can talk civilly to me'. She was especially shocked when I started saying that I wouldn't accept gaslighting anymore, but she did back off from it a bit. At the same time, she seemed to get more and more upset, and arguments became more frequent, I think because she realized she wasn't going to be able to get away with it anymore. At the ending weekend, she pushed past a major boundary of mine, did a pseudo-apology, justification, and some semi-related accusations, then tried to flip it back on me because she felt I was angrier with her than with the other person involved. The other person immediately apologized and said 'yeah, that wasn't cool, I wasn't thinking about it' when I talked to her, but the fact that the other person respond in a mature and reasonable manner doesn't matter to my ex-. That argument was then her justification for a huge blowup, and the eventual fall of the relationship.

My exBPDgf actually said that those things were normal in a relationship. That they were just issues that could be worked out and that she didn't know a single couple that didn't have issues. I tried to explain to her that being broken up with overs and overs again was not normal. She down played it and said again that everyone has issues. She truly believed that all was normal despite what her friends and family would tell her.

I remember this so well - she said that things like shouting and breaking up and constant strife was just completely normal. She told me that I had completely, absurdly unrealistic standards for a relationship and that she worried that I would leave her because I wanted such absurd, unrealistic things, and then I'd meet someone new and have the same problems. The thing is, having a giant shouting argument and sleeping in separate rooms for three days because I don't fold laundry the same way she does isn't normal. My parents, my brothers, and lots of other people that I know have relationships that do not involve regular shouting. She was the one who broke up with me at the end of our relationship, but I think she considered that just a normal thing couples do, so she still is confused at how the relationship could have possibly ended.

[downwhim]

"We need to talk" was a definite split for mine! Oh, let's see then I would get the email. "NO!" That was his response. Then I would get a few days later, You are selfish, It is all about YOU, I am thinking about what I WANT and How to Live MY life! We were engaged. Go figure. ABUSE, is what this is. Then when I finally saw him, arms folded and refused to talk. A two year old without a binky having a fit!