Is it all about the chase and the seduction?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have been involved with my BPDgf for over 2 years. It has devastated my physical and emotional health. However, there are a few key things I have learned that will now help me move on from this particular relationship. This may not apply to other situations, but along with learning about her condition, working on my self-esteem and this board I am slowly getting out of the muck.

First of all I have believe that, at least for her, it's all about the chase and the seduction.

At first I thought that I was an inadequate lover based on her commentary although I always felt our intimacy was amazing. I recycled with her about 4 times. In each 3-6 month period we would be together I would be the center of her universe--but before I knew it,  I was dirt under her feet. Then the lies and cheating would start. As I loved her more, she loved me less. I would then be turned to Black and given some reason, error, mistake or excuse why I was no longer loved or important. So, I would go into NC. Other than a few texts or emails that I had intercepted while together it was obvious she was seeing, dating other men. What all she did to feed this inner demon during our separation I can only leave to my wildest imagination.

I began to see that her sense of self is predicated on her ability to manipulate my or other men's desire and emotions; when a seduction challenge comes to an end, so does her capacity to reinvigorate self-esteem--at least until the next elusive lover is found. It's great sport for her to seduce me back--especially after she's angered me (make up sex is hotter?). Then I finally realized what was happening. Once you've been seduced the challenge of the chase is over, and they lose interest in you.

When I backed away, my absence would force her to confront sensations of emptiness and/or self-loathing, and this can happen within a very short period. She'll usually re-engage when this psychic pain becomes unbearable, or she's wanting/needing something from me--but this is always according to her terms and timing.

If she calls or "checks in" to see how I'm doing in the aftermath, it's never about me! Her sole purpose is keeping me around to meet her needs (no matter what she says to the contrary).

When I stop taking or returning her calls, she can't stand this loss of control, so she flip-flops between wanting me and despising me. She will try every tactic and trick in the book, to get me to respond.

I realize I may be dealing with a very ill sexually addicted child in a woman's body.

[dagwoodbowser]

I have been involved with my BPDgf for over 2 years. It has devastated my physical and emotional health. However, there are a few key things I have learned that will now help me move on from this particular relationship. This may not apply to other situations, but along with learning about her condition, working on my self-esteem and this board I am slowly getting out of the muck.

First of all I have believe that, at least for her, it's all about the chase and the seduction.

At first I thought that I was an inadequate lover based on her commentary although I always felt our intimacy was amazing. I recycled with her about 4 times. In each 3-6 month period we would be together I would be the center of her universe--but before I knew it,  I was dirt under her feet. Then the lies and cheating would start. As I loved her more, she loved me less. I would then be turned to Black and given some reason, error, mistake or excuse why I was no longer loved or important. So, I would go into NC. Other than a few texts or emails that I had intercepted while together it was obvious she was seeing, dating other men. What all she did to feed this inner demon during our separation I can only leave to my wildest imagination.

I began to see that her sense of self is predicated on her ability to manipulate my or other men's desire and emotions; when a seduction challenge comes to an end, so does her capacity to reinvigorate self-esteem--at least until the next elusive lover is found. It's great sport for her to seduce me back--especially after she's angered me (make up sex is hotter?). Then I finally realized what was happening. Once you've been seduced the challenge of the chase is over, and they lose interest in you.

When I backed away, my absence would force her to confront sensations of emptiness and/or self-loathing, and this can happen within a very short period. She'll usually re-engage when this psychic pain becomes unbearable, or she's wanting/needing something from me--but this is always according to her terms and timing.

If she calls or "checks in" to see how I'm doing in the aftermath, it's never about me! Her sole purpose is keeping me around to meet her needs (no matter what she says to the contrary).

When I stop taking or returning her calls, she can't stand this loss of control, so she flip-flops between wanting me and despising me. She will try every tactic and trick in the book, to get me to respond.

I realize I may be dealing with a very ill sexually addicted child in a woman's body.

[Skip]

I recycled with her about 4 times. In each 3-6 month period we would be together I would be the center of her universe--but before I knew it,  I was dirt under her feet. Then the lies and cheating would start. As I loved her more, she loved me less. I would then be turned to Black and given some reason, error, mistake or excuse why I was no longer loved or important. So, I would go into NC. Other than a few texts or emails that I had intercepted while together it was obvious she was seeing, dating other men. What all she did to feed this inner demon during our separation I can only leave to my wildest imagination.

What were some of the reasons she gave for losing interest in the relationship?

[dagwoodbowser]

Hi Skip. First time was after we had lived successfully together after about a full year... no issues, no odd behavoirs as far as I knew... she simply told me she was bored and I needed to find a new place. She wouldnt have any contact w/me. The second time around was over a simple misunderstanding. I had had a rough day and I had gone over to her place, was not in the best of moods. She asked me what was wrong. I rebuffed and simply said I just wanted to relax. She asked me to leave and said that she could tell I was about to break up w/her? Same thing... she disappeared for about 3 months. 3rd time around she pleaded to have me back. I agreed provided we had better communication between us. This last time she had started a new job and I found out she was having an affair with her married boss. I confronted her and she went into big time rage denial even though I got the info directly from a so called office friend of her's that I guess she had an office tiff with and was able to provide very credible info that made sense as to several instances she claimed to be working late or on weekends.

[jammo1989]

Hi Skip. First time was after we had lived successfully together after about a full year... no issues, no odd behavoirs as far as I knew... she simply told me she was bored and I needed to find a new place. She wouldnt have any contact w/me. The second time around was over a simple misunderstanding. I had had a rough day and I had gone over to her place, was not in the best of moods. She asked me what was wrong. I rebuffed and simply said I just wanted to relax. She asked me to leave and said that she could tell I was about to break up w/her? Same thing... she disappeared for about 3 months. 3rd time around she pleaded to have me back. I agreed provided we had better communication between us. This last time she had started a new job and I found out she was having an affair with her married boss. I confronted her and she went into big time rage denial even though I got the info directly from a so called office friend of her's that I guess she had an office tiff with and was able to provide very credible info that made sense as to several instances she claimed to be working late or on weekends.

Hey Dagwood, just from your title "it's all about the chase and the seduction" I can tell you now that, she sound very much like my ex was was very much on the HPD end of the spectrum, I have a read a ton of great information on the mind set of HPDs and why they act the way they do.  The chasing and seductive behavior is her way of validating her lack of self worth, they act and can share the same traits as the Borderline, but, from my own experience and vast amount of reading the HPDs addiction is attention where as a BPD addiction it to avoid the feeling of abandonment. 

During those 3 months when she disappeared did you chase or did you act like you didnt care on the outside even though deep down you were really hurt?   

[dagwoodbowser]

Hey Jammo... she def had abandonment issues. After the 1st, yeah... I chased like crazy and no responses at all. I gave up after I realized I was acting crazy and needy. Thereafter every break up I got the hang of it thinking she needed space. She had told me she had BPD from get go, but I really didnt think anything of it. After 2nd recycle I became concerned and started to read all I could thinking that I was now ahead of the curve... I got this I told myself.

[jammo1989]

Hey Jammo... she def had abandonment issues. After the 1st, yeah... I chased like crazy and no responses at all. I gave up after I realized I was acting crazy and needy. Thereafter every break up I got the hang of it thinking she needed space. She had told me she had BPD from get go, but I really didnt think anything of it. After 2nd recycle I became concerned and started to read all I could thinking that I was now ahead of the curve... I got this I told myself.

If she said she was BPD from the get go then at least you know now after reading up on everything, a lot of the time especially if she HPD traits she will act out in the hope you chase, they love to feel wanted, thats why you see some woman playing 2-3 guys at a time, this is because she leaves them confused with the silent treatment this leads them to want to chase her, and by doing so she feels validated, BUT... .when you dont chase and you act indifferent they will be left confused "Why isnt he chasing me?" thats when she will either reach out and rage because your supposed to validate her, HPDs are only in it for the chase, when they have conquered the feeling of love from someone thats when they tend to dispose of them and move on, so when a HPD/BPD reaches out its because they feel the need to re conquer you because you havent been playing out the script in their disordered mind.

[dagwoodbowser]

Jammo... I had not quite looked at things from your perspective, but putting together what your saying here vs. what I just simply was trying to express about her need to Re-Seduce me after each break-up puts things into a very clear perspective. After the 2nd break-up, I went into complete NC... I mean nothing, no calls, no texts, no emails. Like clock work, she would send a random text or email telling me how she realized I was "different" and really did love her. Same thing happened after the 3rd. This time, I set the settings on my email where anything from her gets deleted and I downloaded an app to my phone called Blacklist that blocks any unavailable, unknown numbers to include hers. I'm not playing this game anymore! This last time she called the cops on me I got soo upset i ended up having a TIA (Transient ischemic attack) that has left my left hand ring and pinky finger numb and I am a physical wreck.

[Invictus01]

Damn dude, have no idea how you went through multiple rounds of this. The one and only round hurt me so bad and put me into such a crazy state of mind, even if she were to crawl back and beg me on her knees to take her back, I just couldn't. I love her but I am scared to death of what she is able to do to me mentally.

[jammo1989]

Jammo... I had not quite looked at things from your perspective, but putting together what your saying here vs. what I just simply was trying to express about her need to Re-Seduce me after each break-up puts things into a very clear perspective. After the 2nd break-up, I went into complete NC... I mean nothing, no calls, no texts, no emails. Like clock work, she would send a random text or email telling me how she realized I was "different" and really did love her. Same thing happened after the 3rd. This time, I set the settings on my email where anything from her gets deleted and I downloaded an app to my phone called Blacklist that blocks any unavailable, unknown numbers to include hers. I'm not playing this game anymore! This last time she called the cops on me I got soo upset i ended up having a TIA (Transient ischemic attack) that has left my left hand ring and pinky finger numb and I am a physical wreck.

She called the cops for 2 reasons, the first to get your full attention, and to make you question your own behavior, and by doing this it allows her to ruminate around your head.  For example, a NON ex says "I think its best we don't have each other on Facebook because we both need time to get over each other" that within itself is your closure, but when they block us out of the blue and instantly following the break up we are left questioning what just happened.  This would then lead us to either chase asking for closure or we try to find a crack in their inner mental fortress, some may use a friends Face book to see what their doing, some may try everything possible to reach out because we are left confused by such actions.  The 2nd reason why she called the cops is because YOU are the victim here, but by her calling the police on you she is seen to the uneducated to be the victim, remember only YOU know the real person behind the mask, but in the eyes of the uneducated you are a stalker who wont leave her alone.  HPDs love having stalkers because it shows them that the guy will do what ever it takes to get their attention, and by doing this validates them into thinking they are this special person that no guy in the world could ever turn down, this is part of her seductive nature.  Here is my own personal example of such behavior:

Lying in bed with ex HPD, watching a film, in the film the guy gets dumped by his gf and sufferers depression while the woman is out with the new guy.  She turns to me while cuddles and says in a banterish way "Thats you, I know youll cry over me, because im just that amazing"

All her exes chased her, where as I was the only guy that didnt chase her, and by doing this it triggered her childhood trauma of being ignored by her Narcissistic mother, so what do they do when you don't chase? 

They do the following: Test/bait, they play this mind game by simply saying something like" I saw Tom the other day and he said I was looking really fit in my summer dress" In her head (following hr script) your supposed to show anger, pain, "Whos Tom? he says that again ill smack him" this is her validation, shes using others (guy attention) to test your loyalty towards her, and this is when she will step it up if you dont play this game.

You dont react the way she wants, she goes mad, heres some very important information for you as to why she goes mad at you, this is extremely insightful, you can thank me later .

IF your ex was raised by a Narcissistic mother, she was ignored, abandoned and seen as a scapegoat to the mother of the child, right, just imagine the baby is hungry, the baby cries in order to gain the attention of the parent, the parent ignores the very thing that baby needs in order to survive.  As the the years go by this baby has learned that in order to gain the attention of others they must either do something to deserve your attention (give you sex) or cause drama "Mum wont listen to me, but if she gets a call from the cops she definitely will, this is why they become drama queens, because in their head in order to gain and sustain the attention from others they must do something positive or negative and more often than not take it to the extreme.  This is why she called the cops "Hes ignoring me, but if i get the cops involved he will soon listen to me" see whats just happened shes using the exact same behavior with her mother as a child, she is now re living her relationship with her mother, because the same exact behaviors she learnt are just replaying themselves.  A HPD/BPD will take all these behaviors to the extreme in order to gain your attention.  For example, my ex blocks my number and Facebook, gets into a new relationship 2 weeks after we break up, her blocking is her way of saying " Im trying to get him to listen to me but hes not listening so he will now be blocked, and because all my other exes think im that special he will try to chase me"  2 months go by my friend tells me shes pregnant with the new guy and planned (2 months into new relationship) This is her distraction because I was the only guy that didnt do what she needed and that was to chase, 5 months go by, she tries to Face time me, she emails trying to start a conversation "You okay"? I print screen the missed call from her, her reply "Oh im really sorry about that" a week later i start getting No caller ID calls, I pick up to 6 seconds of silence, a week after these calls she moves the new guy into her council house.  As you can see she is frustrated as hell that im not doing what she wants, talk to her (Attention) and because im not following the script in her head she still tries to get my attention, while all this is going on this guy is head over heels over being a Dad. 

As you can now see the HPD/BPD will never truly detatch, If i emailed her now I would get a reply BUT she wouldn't unblock my number or my Face Book, which concludes that indifference on her part still hasn't been met.   

[dagwoodbowser]

Jammo... these all very insightful and as mentioned previously it dovetails nicely into my self discovery that at least in the case of my BPDxgf she is a Mistress of Seduction. I am still not sure if I was the only fool that she was shuffling for several months or if there was maybe one more or two? But I saw all the texts, the emails and learned about her affair with her boss. Here is where I have to ask you a question. At what point do you start to let all the manipulation, the lies and the BPD's/HPD's Bag of Tricks pull you in to the point that it becomes an "obsessive" chess game of point/counter point? Yes, in my research I have heard that most with Personality Disorders have a hard time with detachment, but when does one decide to stop hitting the ball back across the net to give them a spark of hope? All this does is keep them out there in the shadows never knowing if one day in one's weakness or frailty that you allow them back in. As it is from all I am reading on these posts the behaviors the Non-BPD's are experiencing from their BPD partners are text book cookie cutter patterns. They pull you into their river current of madness, obsession and feelings and emotions that are so intense that in a sick twisted way it awakens one to a rush of highs and lows that give one a sense of aliveness, yet the toxicity is so thick that you simply cant wash it off and you become physically, emotionally twisted yourself. I want this person out of my Life!

I posted my commentary about my BPDxgf's behavior as a self discovery based on my observations and conclusions to hopefully open the eyes of other men that may be dealing with this situation not so much as a How To, but a Why and become aware that they may be involved with a BPD/HPD female. Knowledge is Power. But Absolute Power Corrupts. So as Non BPD's we have to decide if we learn from this and walk away or do we keep hitting the ball across the net and keep these people in our lives lurking in the background leaving us vulnerable by leaving that tiny crack where they can use their talents to reignite us and pull us back in. The only satisfaction, or if what one is looking for is revenge that you'll ever get with a Borderline, is to shut them out/ignore them completely.The very minute that you re-engage, you're giving them the attention they're craving, which instantly makes them think they still deserve your love and care--even when you're desperately trying to recover from their abuses. When you stop taking or returning their calls, they can't stand this loss of control, so they flip-flop between wanting you and despising you. The Borderline will try every tactic and trick in the book, to get you to respond--The choice is one of two and critical to the NonBPD. Respond or Move On. To engage or get caught up with trying to outsmart a BPD/HPD is foolish and possibly dangerous and one will keep that pain alive as long as you play with them.

[Skip]

It probably goes a lot deeper than you're thinking now and you have a bigger role in this than you think.  These relationships tend to be "loaded" relationship bonds with something triggered in both parties to go into it and keep trying.

The narrative that "its cookie cutter" and she was a "seductress" and the solution is "just walk away" doesn't really match what little I know about your story.

1. Your relationship was not cookie cutter - there are 100's of different versions here. Living together for a year then breaking up 4 times in the second year is not everyones story.

2. The seductress explanation doesn't really fit a story of 4 restarts in 2 years with 1 year living together. It does sound like a very unstable "too bad to stay, too good to leave" story.

3. If "just walk away" was the solution, why did you loose 20 pounds and have a mini-stroke when you walked away. Sounds like severe abandonment anxiety.

It's up to you. 

Do you want to buy into the monster in the woods theory or do you want to break this down and try to understand what really happened? The latter will take some time and it will likely uncover some kinks in your own armor.

People with impulse disorders send a lot of mixed signals - they change with the wind - the emotions swing wildly. It's complicated to know what was really going on.

[dagwoodbowser]

Skip, my sincerest apologies not only to you, but anyone else that has, may of had or is working through their BPD. I did not mean to be insensitive or to lay all my shame and blame on someone who has this dysfunction or is as dysfunctional as perhaps I am? Perhaps I need to be more careful in how deeply I share on these forums. I am hurting, confused and I am getting counseling. It has been determined that I have a Co-Dependency issue and perhaps much of what your commentary states could be true. I dont know. I am in a process of self discovery. Like many others here.

For now, I do know that I need to STOP hitting the ball over the net with my BPDxgf due to the fact that we both are broken in our own ways because of our disorders. I've discovered both self destructive patterns in her as I have in myself and I am sharing honestly like everyone else here. . I do my best not to see her as evil or that scary thing out in the woods and from the get go it really went out of my way to help her, perhaps maybe fix her?  Anyway, I've seen alot of the hard work you've put into this Forum, site, yourself and it is all very much needed and appreciated. Thank you for your direction.

[Skip]

Skip, my sincerest apologies not only to you, but anyone else that has, may of had or is working through their BPD.

 This is a board for the ex-partners of people with BPD - not people with BPD traits. Our need to be sensitive to people with BPD / BPD traits only extends to our need to be centered and healthy in our own thinking as it relates to our own recovery. It's a safe place to be open.

I am hurting, confused and I am getting counseling. It has been determined that I have a co-dependency issue and perhaps much of what your commentary states could be true. I dont know. I am in a process of self discovery. Like many others here.

That's good to hear. It is a process. Generally, the co-dependency aspect is resolvable - we can unlearn it.  There may be underlying issues driving it that are harder to tackle.  That's all part of the journey.

For now, I do know that I need to STOP hitting the ball over the net

And that makes sense... .

Couples where one person is impulsive and one person is co-dependent are common. There is something in both parties that brings them together.  There are several types of pairings here - my advice is to explore this aspect of the relationship.  Why did you pair and re-pair with this person, even after the negative experiences.