General opinions needed please

[jammo1989]

When you show emotional strength and you shut down a BPD/HPD in the sense that, she broke broke up with you, this then leads to the push/pull behavior on her part, you finally put an end to this by saying im done i cant do this anymore.  5 months pass and you get a random call from them, they then reach out over email with something along the lines of "I never called you, you okay?" Your only reply is a print screen of the call she made, she then replies with "Oh im sorry about that" you then get a no caller I.D call a week after this call she moves my replacement in to live with her.

My point being here or question is this

Did she reach out to be genuine, and because I was short in my words she still feels that im being mean towards her? or because shes HPD shes hating the fact I never tried to chase her and apart of her is wanting to reach out and because im not carrying on the conversation she gets annoyed and carry's on her he doesn't exist anymore attitude?  This still baffles me because she is 6 months pregnant with my replacement so why attempt to contact after the 6 month mark? and if it was genuine and indifference was met then surely she would have unblocked my phone and Facebook by now, would really appreciate someones opinion on this.


Thanks again


Jammo       

[tjay933]

there is no reasoning or understanding the "crazy makers" sense of logic. it doesn't exist. just take it as it is-illogical. if you put too much thought into their sense of logic, you won't understand why the sun is coming up in the north instead of the south. 

[Mutt]

Hi jammo1989,

there is no reasoning or understanding the "crazy makers" sense of logic. it doesn't exist. just take it as it is-illogical. if you put too much thought into their sense of logic, you won't understand why the sun is coming up in the north instead of the south.  

It's baffling and tough to make sense jammo1989.

I think tjay933 has a good point, her belief system is distorted and it's hard to make sense of the logic.

It could be she accidentally dialed and she's sincere or it could also be dissociation.

My ex is pregnant with her boyfriend and due some time in the summer She wants and fears intimacy, fears abandonment perceived or real, has chaotic relationships. and fears she's going to be abandoned. I noticed I've being tested and it's the oddest things you may easily overlook and it's confusing.

I said terrible things to her out of anger and I was split black for over 24 months then split white after she was pregnant.

I'm also still blocked on Facebook.

I do notice a significant different in the way that she treats me. For example, she'll talk to me when she comes and exchanges the kids at my home. She is avoidant when I pick up the kids at the exchanges at her house, she'll up the door and let the kids out and hurriedly close the door.

I think it's because she fears I may say something to her boyfriend about the persona's and masks that she wears.

[lbjnltx]

When you show emotional strength and you shut down a BPD/HPD in the sense that, she broke broke up with you, this then leads to the push/pull behavior on her part, you finally put an end to this by saying im done i cant do this anymore.  5 months pass and you get a random call from them, they then reach out over email with something along the lines of "I never called you, you okay?" Your only reply is a print screen of the call she made, she then replies with "Oh im sorry about that" you then get a no caller I.D call a week after this call she moves my replacement in to live with her.

My point being here or question is this

Did she reach out to be genuine, and because I was short in my words she still feels that im being mean towards her? or because shes HPD shes hating the fact I never tried to chase her and apart of her is wanting to reach out and because im not carrying on the conversation she gets annoyed and carry's on her he doesn't exist anymore attitude?  This still baffles me because she is 6 months pregnant with my replacement so why attempt to contact after the 6 month mark?       

Through my personal experience raising a BPD child and having a basic clinical understanding of the disorder is that the deep hurts a pwBPD experiences are not healed without treatment.  One new painful experience brings up the intense feelings of past painful experiences. 

Maybe something happened and her reflex response is to reach out to relieve those intense feelings.

Maybe she is feeling remorse for the way she left the relationship and wants to feel better about it by making amends with you.

It would be a good idea to have a better understanding of the disorder so that you can see her as a wounded and ill person in need of help and compassion. If  you can let go of some of what keeps you stuck focusing on her (your hurt, your anger)  and begin to focus on what you need then you can move forward in a healthy way. Maybe this info can help you do that.

BPD What is it? How Can I tell?

lbj

[jammo1989]

When you show emotional strength and you shut down a BPD/HPD in the sense that, she broke broke up with you, this then leads to the push/pull behavior on her part, you finally put an end to this by saying im done i cant do this anymore.  5 months pass and you get a random call from them, they then reach out over email with something along the lines of "I never called you, you okay?" Your only reply is a print screen of the call she made, she then replies with "Oh im sorry about that" you then get a no caller I.D call a week after this call she moves my replacement in to live with her.

My point being here or question is this

Did she reach out to be genuine, and because I was short in my words she still feels that im being mean towards her? or because shes HPD shes hating the fact I never tried to chase her and apart of her is wanting to reach out and because im not carrying on the conversation she gets annoyed and carry's on her he doesn't exist anymore attitude?  This still baffles me because she is 6 months pregnant with my replacement so why attempt to contact after the 6 month mark?       

Through my personal experience raising a BPD child and having a basic clinical understanding of the disorder is that the deep hurts a pwBPD experiences are not healed without treatment.  One new painful experience brings up the intense feelings of past painful experiences. 

Maybe something happened and her reflex response is to reach out to relieve those intense feelings.

Maybe she is feeling remorse for the way she left the relationship and wants to feel better about it by making amends with you.

It would be a good idea to have a better understanding of the disorder so that you can see her as a wounded and ill person in need of help and compassion. If  you can let go of some of what keeps you stuck focusing on her (your hurt, your anger)  and begin to focus on what you need then you can move forward in a healthy way. Maybe this info can help you do that.

BPD What is it? How Can I tell?

lbj

Hey LBJN, thank you for your response, i put it down to impulsive behaviour, well in my head anyway, i think the you ok? Part of her email was maybe her way of trying to reach out as i think deep down she doesnt want to feel hated, but as soon as i just replied with the print screen, she panicked and said oh im sorry about that, and i havent heard from her since.  I understand the disorder, but im

Very much in 2 minds, because, a part of me feels sorry for her, and that its not her fault, because shes a scared little girl trapped in a womans body, the BPD side, but she was more HPD the seductive, attention seeking, over sexual type, so apart of me also treats her like a Narcassist and doesnt feel any empathy towards her, its like a constant change in emotion.  She dumped me, blocked me, slept with the new guy the day after we split, gets into a new relationship a few days later, and gets pregnant with her 3rd child within 2 months, where as before she was begging me for a child, she pleaded with me to give her a baby, she also blocked my number and said dont you dare contact me again, and i didnt, i was the only guy that didnt chase, so a part of me wants to make up with her as friends, then the other part is like i coundnt care less about how horrific her past was because she used me.

[lbjnltx]

I understand you are hurt jammo.  No one wants to be discarded. 

Is there a middle path jammo?  Between being her friend and not caring at all?

Letting go with love, wishing her recovery and peace in her life?  You will have to let go of the anger and blame to do this. When you let go of the anger and blame you will be setting yourself free to do your own recovery.

Some people can do just that, they can let go... .some people have to have an understanding of the reason everything happened to let go.  Either way ... .you have the educational tools and support on this site to help you let go.

I encourage you to use them.  This really isn't about her jammo.  She has moved on, this is about you and what you need to come out of this experience wiser, stronger, and healthier than when you went in.

lbj

[Skip]

Very much in 2 minds, because, a part of me feels sorry for her, and that its not her fault, because shes a scared little girl trapped in a womans body, the BPD side, but she was more HPD the seductive, attention seeking, over sexual type, so apart of me also treats her like a Narcassist and doesnt feel any empathy towards her, its like a constant change in emotion. 

Jammo, have you read the workshop on mindfulness? It might give you some structure to work this out.  How can you feel these two things?  They are so different.

My take on all of this is that you believe you can analyze her every action and attach meaning to it.  You are way down into the minutiae trying and looking for answers. You might be a little lost in the forest.

Draw you main conclusions from the big picture. 

She is bouncing from relationship to relationship, she has a child on the way, she is in a crisis situation.  She probably has mixed feelings about being pregnant so quick. She probably has mixed feelings about mixed feeling about the guys (its too early for her to have a confident to assessment them), etc., etc.  She is probably hopping from one emotion to another, one fear to another, one... .  Get the big picture?  Any girl would be struggling with this now.  Add a personality disturbance and it gets even more volatile.

The big picture is that she a lot on her plate and you are a small nibble in the corner.

In this environment, she can do all kinds of unpredictable things. Some in the moment. Maybe needs a moment of validation. Maybe $100.  Maybe a mis-dialed you try to take your number off her phone.  You can't know.

Whatever small gestures she makes, you should take with a grain of salt.  If she wants to come back, she will make it clear as day - no coyness.

As for you, vacillating between see her as a scared little girl or a heartless monster is a big dichotomy.  Maybe we can narrow this.

1. Think back to the middle of the relationship.  Who was she then? Little girl? Monster? Something a lot more appropriate for a for a grown women?  Go back there.  Lock in on that person.  That is who she is.  That is her typical manifestation of her traits.

2. Think about the end of the relationship. How she acted toward you.  Where she put you in her priorities.  Don't think about why - just what.  That is how important you are to her right now.  It doesn't have to be a pathology - when she let go (which likely started before the breakup) - when any women lets go - you became a lot less important to her.  Thats where the relationship is now.

Now, on this backdrop, how do you feel about her? I think this is where you want to go to get it all in perspective.

Has she had a hard life, a tortured childhood? That's sad? Yes?

What kind of person did she grow to become? A good person? A good person with some destructive coping mechanism?  How do you feel about this person?

Lastly, once she said I'm done, how has she conducted herself?  Has she acted like most ex-lovers - shut you out?  Or has she done abusive things to toy with you emotions.

Given all of the above - who do you see?  How do you / how should you feel about her?

[jammo1989]

[/quote]
Skip this was an excellent post! and i really appreciate it as its really helpful.  The woman in the relationship was by no means a monster nor did she show the traits of the scared little girl she showed a deep independence towards others and her kids, she wouldn't let me give her money when she was struggling or for driving lessons, as she always told me it feels weird because I have never relied on anybody in my life.  But... .She would expect me to pay for everything when we were out, she would expect me to by her Pandora charms and at times expect me to buy her children new toys.  The final day before she dumped me, I had earlier spent £50 on our 3 course meals, she then wanted to go to the Disney store because she loves Disney.  She passes me a soft teddy and says "Baby will you buy me this because it reminds me of you?" it was £18, and for the first time in 2 years I said "Not really, because I just spent £50 on our meals before" She throws the toy on the floor in front of everyone and says "Fine then" she then storms off, leaving me to pick the toy up off the floor and out it back, it was only at  this point where I began to say No and she would rage at me.  From my understanding, its as if she wanted others to see her as this independent woman, but on the inside she expected me to buy her everything.  She would also tell me, "Good luck to your next girlfriend when she uses you for your money, I never asked nor wanted these nice things I just wanted you to love me thats it" As you can see this was such a hypocritical statement.  Furthermore, her seductive nature came from using sexual activity to gain my attention, if she wanted something like a Chinese take away, she would say "Baby can we have a Chinese tonight?" If I said "ummmm not really as im not hungry right now" She would undo my trousers start pleasuring me, pull the cute puppy dog eyes and say in a baby sounding voice (Trying to sound cute) "Baby please" and thats how she worked towards me.  She would say a few things that still stay with me 7 months later:

"Youd cry over me if we split, youd get all depressed and beg for me back because Im just that amazing"

she would say "What should do tonight?" Id say "I dont mind im easy" her reply was always "yeah I know you were I bedded you on the first night"

"Ive had better looking guy mates than you" (baiting me for attention, negative outburst)


Now When I flip it, when she felt like she was losing me (not reacting to her actions) she would almost sound BPD, these are the things that still stay with me:

"I feel like a piece of ___ next to you"

"I just want someone to understand me and accept me for me"

"The kids miss you a lot James"

"This is why I never let others in because they just walk away"

"I just want to stand in front of a moving car"

As you can see the seductive nature of the HPD personality changed when met with irrational fear, Its as if she used the sexual seduction as a way to make sure I wouldn't stray but in the end when that didn't work, she had no more tools and her last resort was to hurt me before I could hurt her and attach to another to stop the build up of negative and irrational emotions.

You are most definitely right with your description about how hard and traumatic her life was and that she probably has a lot going through her head and that I wasnt part of the equation, I mean why would I be? This woman was almost certain I was going to run away away from her and her children, that is why I personally feel she made the kids hate me first, because by doing so it wouldn't seem such a loss in their eyes if I had upset their mummy, and its very interesting to me because she also accused me of killing a baby that didn't even exist (fake abortion) as you can see she used the same behavior towards her kids and towards me find a fabricated reason to push me away in order to not feel so much guilt towards how she treated me. 

Mt ex was committed to not turning out like her mother, she would always say ill never be like my mother ever! She was good to the kids and to be honest a great mum, but... .when you look deeper into it, she always took her needs before her children.  For example, letting them build a strong bond with me for over a year, then a week later having a new guy sleep in her bed, and this new baby of course, the baby will get all the attention and the other two who are 3 and 6 are going to compete for their mothers attention, and this is only going to lead to attention seeking behaviors from her kids in order to get their mothers attention, so all in all, I think she means well, but when you look at the bigger picture she isn't a good person or mother on the basis that, she want attend or see to the needs of her own children.

When she said she was done, she played the push.pull game, was physically seductive towards me and told me the kids missed me a lot, I t was I who had the last say by telling her Im done, I cant do this anymore, but Id like us to stay friends, this then led to me calling her because she kept hanging up on me, and no she wasn't crying she was just like what! I finally said my piece and after that I was blocked on everything, and then later found out about everything else I earlier spoke about.  I have received 4 NO CALLER I.D calls in the last 7 months a Face time call and a few emails, but yet again she asked if I was ok and I just replied with the print screen of the call she made to me, this within itself probably made her feel rejected because I didn't carry on the conversation with "Hey, Im good thanks you?" Which I feel she was maybe hoping for.

Im really sorry to ramble SKIP, but your post was really good and I felt I had to open up a bit more to you

Thank you!