Introducing myself to the group

[Lynnsie]

I found this group in search of help coping with my child w/BPD.  It has been a roller coaster two years.  In October, my child shot herself.  She already had significant health issues and this has compounded them.  So many behaviors were frustrating but, I could talk myself into it is because she has had so many surgeries, she has a progressive genetic disease, her father abandoned her but, somewhere I knew there was more.  She has come home to recover and things are beginning to escalate again.  Her behaviors that had quieted down during her recovery are beginning to appear again.  I had no idea that I was really actually contributing to the escalation by reactions.  I am getting no sleep.  I am having debilitating tension headaches.  I am so fearful all the time.  I feel a prisoner to the reality that she is so impulsive, emotionally volatile, and that the possibility she could take her own life is too real.  She already almost succeeded.  I have another pre-teen and teenage child at home.  The teenager is very angry with her and the pre-teen worries themselves sick over it.  I need help sorting out and coping.  Thank you for listening.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hello Lynnsie,

We are so glad to have you join our group.  I'm am so very sorry to hear about your daughter's suicide attempt.  It is a parent's worse nightmare and you are living it. 

The constant fear and stress do take their toll on us in every possible way. 

Having her at home where you can watch her and take care of her is a blessing with it's own set of difficulties.  It's good that you recognize where you need to change and we are here to support you in learning how.

It is difficult for us to learn new ways of doing things when our emotions override our logic and reason and when we are exhausted mentally and physically. How are you taking care of yourself?  Are you getting any support from extended family and friends?  Someone to give you a break so you can have self time? 

It is of the utmost importance to take care of self lest you burn out and then you aren't able to care for your family.  Does your family participate in any therapy to help you all cope with the situation and the fears?

We have the skills, tools, and lessons that can help you communicate with your daughter in a beneficial way.  The sidebar is where they are collected.

How old is your daughter and has she been diagnosed with BPD while she was in hospital?  Did she receive any kind of discharge treatment recommendations for therapy?

I look forward to your reply.

lbj

[Lynnsie]

I'm trying to navigate this board having never been part of a board before.  My daughter is 20 years old.  She has not been officially diagnosed with BPD.  The hospital that saved her life after she shot herself was AMAZING medically but, psychologically I would rate them VERY poorly.  She left after 4 days in MHU with NO discharge plan and no follow up care scheduled.  

We went a very long time without a counselor.  Many on our insurance list were not taking new clients and quite frankly I was told NO by some because her attempt was so serious.  That actually still has me dumbfounded till today.  We finally found someone who is willing to work to with her but, is concerned by her medications.  My daughter has a collagen based disease that destroys joints, weakens ligaments and tendons, effects organs, and a whole host of other not so nice things.  

She has had 46+ surgeries starting when she was 19 months old.  She has is in need of another total hip replacement and a very intricate spinal surgery.  She requires daily pain medication.  I am now in complete charge of her pain meds.  The counselor is concerned that they could have a depressive effect.  While I understand that I also have a spectrum of her disease and unrelenting pain is a depressant in and of itself.  It is a reality that has to be worked with.  Pain treatment will always be a part of her life.  It would be cruel not to treat her pain.  

She has not consistently been going to the counselor even though this was a contingency of her coming home.  Her father is a narcissist (told that to me by his physician many years ago).  He had a spotty relationship with her until 6 years old.  From 6 to 9 became turbulent even though she idolized him.  At 9 he became emotional abusive toward her and began having supervised visitations.  At 16 he cut her off completely blaming her for everything wrong.  

At 11 years old her body fell apart.  It began a period of several years of continual surgery, hospital stays far from home (big hospital), she no longer could attend school, at first school and friends were supportive but, when recovery didn't occur her friends couldn't cope.  At 15 or 16 she went to a 1 month program that changed everything.  It was to deal with the never ending pain.  They took away medications.  Every time she had pain she was suppose to exercise no matter where she was or what she was doing. She wasn't suppose to use the word pain.  I was suppose to almost be punitive if she did.  I was to NEVER validate her feeling of pain.  

This was the number one children's hospital in our country.  I went in with a child suffering terribly with pain and came out with a child suffering terribly with pain that was suicidal AND felt no one heard her.  Their premise was to treat a different disorder but, felt it could be applicable to all sorts of pain.  I questioned it because her pain was mechanical in nature not nerve or pain with no source.  

She was always a polite, thoughtful, kind, intelligent child.  At a certain point she became very isolated, then the cutting began, then the risk taking, dishonesty, suicidal tendencies, raging, she has never hit one of us but, broke her hand three times punching the wall,  what feels like manipulation, impulsivity that is extreme, she always, always talked about being empty, and she hates herself for what she does.  She says her life will never be any good.  

I had never even heard of BPD.  A friend I was leaning on shared it with her sister who works in the mental health field.  She suggested it.  I started reading about.  The more I read the more I knew this seems to be exactly her.  At first I just read about the symptoms and a small bit of what they would try to do to help.  Then I purchased Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder by Shari Y. Manning Ph.D and I realized not only my daughter probably very much had this disease but, that I made it worse!  

There is so much I can't even write it all.  When she was discharged from her suicide attempt they did not give me any tools to deal with bringing home someone post suicide.  They didn't tell me how to help me or my family with what we personally were going through.  I felt like it was going to be a wake up call for all the previous things going on and that it would be a moment to begin healing and enact change. After her body began to heal more and more the behaviors began sliding back in slow at first and then full force.  

My reaction to everything was the same as before, which was like throwing a match in gas.  I'm trying so hard to understand things and to change my reactions.  I want my daughter alive and happy.  I wish I could go back in time before the behavior began.  We were so close to each other.  I have a spectrum of her disease so I have had several surgeries and constant pain.  I was suppose to go to the neurologist the day after she shot herself to schedule the back surgery I need.  That was in October.  I don't even dare be in the hospital.  I am at such a loss.  My husband (her step father) has raised her and loves but, isn't coping well at all.  I'm not sleeping at all!

[lbjnltx]

Hello Lynnsie,

Good to see you back... .yes... .this is a large site that can be difficult to navigate at first.  Any staff member can help if needed, just send a message.

After reading about your daughter's history it is understandable how she would have developed this disorder.  She has had a lifetime of trauma.

I was wondering if her physician would be able to make a referral to get your daughter and your family into therapy?  Many hospitals have family support structure for patients with chronic illness.  Finding treatment is almost as difficult as getting our adult children to go to therapy.

Manning's book is stellar.  Would you like to begin with practicing your validation skills?  Here are some links to help you begin to make a plan:

Lessons

The Lessons are progressive in nature, beginning with understanding the disorder.  There's lots to learn and absorb so take some time and go easy on yourself.  Lesson 2 will introduce you to the tools and skills in workshop form where you can ask questions or feel free to start a new topic here on the Parents board and we will work with you and all learn together.

It is important to have some sense of control over our environment, safety, and children's safety.  Since you have all been through a traumatic event it is highly advisable that you develop a safety plan. 

Here is a link to some important information to help you develop your family safety plan:

Crisis Safety Plan: When a family member has Borderline Personality Disorder

[Hadlee]

Heya Lynnsie,

Terribly sorry to read your story.  I can relate.  My ex made two suicide attempts during our relationship.  It has an enormous impact on loved ones.

The folks on this board seem very supportive.  Wishing y'all well.

Sincerely,

Busygall

[Lynnsie]

I wondered how everyone set and enforced boundaries?  My daughter just disregards ALL the rules of the house.  It doesn't matter how many times you ask her not to do something she does it.  She lies about doing it even when faced with irrefutable proof, changes it around to be your fault, or says the rules are just petty anyways.

 The lying absolutely drives me out of my head.  I have cried time and time again about this.  It's not how we raised our children.  Honesty and integrity are your core!  No matter how many times I say just be honest and we can work anything out she still will lie.  I've told her over and over rebuilding someone's trust is terribly difficult so don't break it in the first place.  Start rebuilding today - no more lies.  Whenever I hear "I promise" or "I'm not lying I swear" I feel defeated and angry because neither is the truth.  

The boundaries have become so blurred because we have suicide hanging over us.  Her attempt was NOT a cry for help.  It was made with every intent to be successful.  She narrowly missed her heart.  I can't sleep at night because she's awake doing things.  Standing on the roof smoking cigarettes.  I'm scared she'll fall or burn my house down.  We asked her not to do this.  I won't do it anymore - lie.  It has been in the negative degree temperatures here and she takes off alone at night walking.  She has a hip replacement and many physical disabilities.  She weighs 120lbs. and could easily be overtaken.  She is always under dressed for the weather.  This will be at 1:00a.m.  Our dogs start yipping and won't stop because she's up or gone.  The other night I heard noises at 1:45 a.m.  Some guy was on my front porch talking to her.  My other children are asleep in their beds.  My husband has to wake up at 5 a.m. to go to work.  I'm literally getting about 3 hours of sleep every other night.  Maybe 5 hours on the other nights.  

If you try to enforce the rules everything escalates.   She's borrowing money from her 12 yr. old brother.  Asking him to keep secrets.  He idolizes her and I can see he feels so torn.  He worries about her well being and safety. One night we came home from dinner and they were gone.  She took him for a walk in the dark, wearing black,  in a small snow squall, no sidewalks because of the amount of snow we have had, and he was completely under dressed.  In my panic I call her phone.  She says they are sidewalks, that she's in front of him to keep him safe, and that they're on the street we live on, almost home.  We drive up the road there they are in the road, he's first all in black, freezing, and NOT on our street.  Again she can't understand why we're upset .  I talk to him about good choices.  He felt the best choice was to go with her so she wasn't alone in the dark.  And I know my daughter loves her brother immensely but, I can no longer let her be alone with him.

 Also because I am the only one who enforces anything or tries to talk to her a majority of her anger is at me.  She either loves me with such intensity or hates me.  When she hates me she tells everyone who will listen (including my sweet 12 year old) what a terrible, horrible person I am.  I mean that.  She'll tell the neighbor up the street.   She'll tell my mother.  She'll tell all her friends (whichever ones are friends at the time).  She will tell my best friend.  She will almost campaign for them to believe that I am at fault.  She wants her feelings of being angry at me validated but, especially by people who care for me.  When she's over being angry it is as if it didn't happen and I don't believe she worries about the damage her campaign may have done.  The lying she blames on me even.  I am not the type of person one can tell the truth to but, I feel it more has to do with the fact that she can not hear the truth.  

Up until I learned about BPD I have probably been exacerbating her problems by shaming her thinking I'm parenting her.  Thinking I could show her you've been given morals and standards to live up to and your not.  You live in a home that rules for the sake of all the people living in it.  I've told her that her 12 yr. old and 16 yr. old siblings deserve a peaceful, calm home like she had.  She hears you are no good for any of us.  You harm everyone here and are a bad person.  She even changes my words, my tone, and my reference.  

Since beginning to research I realize that even her suicide attempt was probably in part partially my fault.  I reacted to something she had done so negatively that I don't she could cope with her feelings.  I had no idea.  NONE!  I just couldn't not understand the behaviors.  She had taken something from me.  I wanted her to understand how that felt and that I had not raised her in such a manner.  She felt our relationship was irreparable and that I would never forgive her.  That she was horrible.  I had even said at the time though I was angry  I would forgive her.  But, by this time my frustration had built to a point that I almost felt total aggravation toward her.  I know I was icy.  The guilt for me is really hard but, it is like it's happening all over.  

She moved home to heal.  She respects no boundaries, no rules.   It's starting to build again.  The only difference is I am now aware of BPD and trying so hard to learn.  Trying to validate but, yet still feel manipulated.  I also feel like the lines are blurred by the suicide attempt.  Sometimes she says things like I should have just died or I should never gotten up and walked back.  I'm too new to effectively manage her feelings and mine.

[madmom]

Oh Lynnsie I am so sorry for what you are going through.  Reading your story, brought back so many memories and feelings of dealing with my dwBPD, especially the LYING part.  I too, hate that the most.  One thing that my family did early on was to do therapy as a family, with my daughter.  It helped her brothers, father and I to understand what we did/did not need to do to help her.  It took me awhile to understand what I was doing to make the situation worse with my daughter, I was so angry and frustrated with the lying, and the other issues---especially because she wasn't living to the values and morals she was raised with.  Coming here, and watching some of the videos, and using the tools and lessons, especially SET and validation really helped.  I know that you are trying so hard and you are exhausted.  Please keep us updated, you are not alone.  We want to know what we can do to support you.  I don't have great advice about boundaries, when my daughter was living with us that was a struggle also. It does help if everyone in the family can discuss and be consistent, but that is easier said than done.  My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[lbjnltx]

Hello again Lynnsie... .

I wondered how everyone set and enforced boundaries?  My daughter just disregards ALL the rules of the house.  It doesn't matter how many times you ask her not to do something she does it.  She lies about doing it even when faced with irrefutable proof, changes it around to be your fault, or says the rules are just petty anyways.

Boundaries are different than rules or limits.

Boundaries are personal.  They are based on our values.  We set them and we enforce them by our own actions.

Boundaries are best set gently and firmly.  The enforcement of them needs to be consistent.

Rules and limits are what the family agrees on as acceptable within the family unit.  Rules and limits are best determined by consensus.  This applies to the consequences too.

The lying absolutely drives me out of my head.  I have cried time and time again about this.  It's not how we raised our children.  Honesty and integrity are your core!  No matter how many times I say just be honest and we can work anything out she still will lie.  I've told her over and over rebuilding someone's trust is terribly difficult so don't break it in the first place.  Start rebuilding today - no more lies.  Whenever I hear "I promise" or "I'm not lying I swear" I feel defeated and angry because neither is the truth.

The lies are hard to deal with.  Arguing about whether she is telling the truth or not is pointless and can definitely cause a situation to escalate.   Stay on point about the issue.  Restating the limit in a gentle tone and walk away. For example:  Jenna, the rules are that we do not smoke in or on the house. It is dangerous.  I didnt' I promise.  The rules are clear and they are in place for everyone's safety. Do you understand?... .then walk away. The next time she climbs out on the roof, smokes on the roof... .whatever the limit/rule she breaks is give her the consequence... .First restate the rule/limit: Jenna, the rules are that we do not smoke in or on the house.  It is dangerous. Because you are having trouble observing the rules you are to clean out the garage (or some other "ordeal" that is inconvenient enough to remind her that breaking that rule isn't worth it.)  If she refuses to participate in the "ordeal" then losing privileges is the next step in order for her to comply with the ordeal. Maybe she loses the privilege of using the car, cell phone, computer, whatever it is until she completes the task you have assigned to her.

She's borrowing money from her 12 yr. old brother.  Asking him to keep secrets.  He idolizes her and I can see he feels so torn.  He worries about her well being and safety. One night we came home from dinner and they were gone.  She took him for a walk in the dark, wearing black,  in a small snow squall, no sidewalks because of the amount of snow we have had, and he was completely under dressed.  In my panic I call her phone.  She says they are sidewalks, that she's in front of him to keep him safe, and that they're on the street we live on, almost home.  We drive up the road there they are in the road, he's first all in black, freezing, and NOT on our street.  Again she can't understand why we're upset .  I talk to him about good choices.  He felt the best choice was to go with her so she wasn't alone in the dark.  And I know my daughter loves her brother immensely but, I can no longer let her be alone with him.

Your son can set his own boundaries for his safety.  In his young mind he believes that being with her will protect her and doesn't realize he is only jeopardizing himself too.  He wants to protect her.  Can you get him in counseling to deal with all this?  He needs someone to talk to and get feedback from outside of the family unit.

Also because I am the only one who enforces anything or tries to talk to her a majority of her anger is at me.  She either loves me with such intensity or hates me.  When she hates me she tells everyone who will listen (including my sweet 12 year old) what a terrible, horrible person I am.  I mean that.  She'll tell the neighbor up the street.   She'll tell my mother.  She'll tell all her friends (whichever ones are friends at the time).  She will tell my best friend.  She will almost campaign for them to believe that I am at fault.  She wants her feelings of being angry at me validated but, especially by people who care for me.  When she's over being angry it is as if it didn't happen and I don't believe she worries about the damage her campaign may have done.

This is a distortion campaign and you have a good grasp on how it serves her. She doesn't have the executive function to understand that the consequences of doing this are harmful long term.

I am not the type of person one can tell the truth to but, I feel it more has to do with the fact that she can not hear the truth.

What causes you to believe this?  It is correct that she is unable to beneficially process the truths about herself.  She doesn't have the skills to look at herself objectively, integrate the truth and use that truth to make choices about future behaviors. Through therapy she can gain the coping skills to see herself not in black and white terms... .in a more healthy and balanced view.  This is when she can make positive changes.

   

Up until I learned about BPD I have probably been exacerbating her problems by shaming her thinking I'm parenting her.  Thinking I could show her you've been given morals and standards to live up to and your not.  You live in a home that rules for the sake of all the people living in it.  I've told her that her 12 yr. old and 16 yr. old siblings deserve a peaceful, calm home like she had.  She hears you are no good for any of us.  You harm everyone here and are a bad person.  She even changes my words, my tone, and my reference.

This is when the use of validation and asking guiding and thought provoking validating questions will serve your family well.  Have you looked at the validation information in the lessons yet? 

Since beginning to research I realize that even her suicide attempt was probably in part partially my fault.  I reacted to something she had done so negatively that I don't she could cope with her feelings.  I had no idea.  NONE!  I just couldn't not understand the behaviors.  She had taken something from me.  I wanted her to understand how that felt and that I had not raised her in such a manner.  She felt our relationship was irreparable and that I would never forgive her.  That she was horrible.  I had even said at the time though I was angry  I would forgive her.  But, by this time my frustration had built to a point that I almost felt total aggravation toward her.  I know I was icy.  The guilt for me is really hard but, it is like it's happening all over.

She thinks in black and white... .all or nothing... .good and bad.  She has victim mentality.  When we hold our BPD kids accountable in anger, disgust, disbelief, or any other negatively emotional way we are reinforcing their belief that they are all bad.  I understand how the fear and frustration are driving your reactions.  It doesn't have to anymore.  Replace this with skillful and beneficial responses.

She moved home to heal.  She respects no boundaries, no rules.   It's starting to build again.  The only difference is I am now aware of BPD and trying so hard to learn.  Trying to validate but, yet still feel manipulated.  I also feel like the lines are blurred by the suicide attempt.  Sometimes she says things like I should have just died or I should never gotten up and walked back.  I'm too new to effectively manage her feelings and mine.

First off, you can't manage her feelings for her.  What you can do is manage yours and respond the way you would want her to respond... .modeling behaviors. 

The suicidal thinking with her history must be addressed.  Did you read the info in Creating a Family Crisis and Safety Plan? Taking steps to be prepared will ease your fears to some degree.  Getting her into therapy, changing your reactions to responses, having personal boundaries can help decrease the emotional temperature in the home and in the relationships.  Anything that brings stability can help decrease probabilities of suicidal thoughts and attempts.

There's a lot here to address Lynnsie.  This is all going to take time, energy, and practice.  It's all worth it and we are here to help you.  You are not alone.



lbj

[Lynnsie]

I've started reading the lessons.  There is so much to process!  The FOG lesson was such an eye opener for me!  One thing that hit me is that I am not only controlled by BPD and the emotional fearthat is so exacerbated by her severe suicide attempt but, that I am also a controller!  I've really taking time to process that.  My dd with BPD is my oldest child.  All my firsts as a parent obviously have occurred with her.  Child #2 I did better and Child #3 I did even better.  My dd has had severe health issues since 19 months old.  So I have always been super protective.  Not recognizing the BPD traits as they began I didn't always respond gracefully.  But, when the impulsivity and extremely poor choices began I have become super controlling trying to prevent it.  I also feel like I'm always playing detective trying to figure out what harmful thing she is doing to herself and in my house.

I decided to look at how I am with my other two at this point in time.  :)o I control them?  And I don't.  :)d #2 has such great choice making skills that I ask her do you think that this is the situation you want to be in and if she says yes or no I know it is a solid decision.  I generally let her make her own choices with in reason.

My dd's step mom (we call her that because, she was in a relationship with her biological father for the 6 years of my dd life.  He left her but, she has remained an integral part of my daughter's life.  My dd was staying with her at the time she shot herself and did it at her stepmother's home.  It has been devastating for her and has had a huge impact on their relationship) has been helping my dd with filling out the paperwork for disability benefits.  They started the process a long time ago.  Her physical issues will qualify her easily.  At first it wasn't completed because we were trying to have my dd participate in the process.  We wanted her invested in her own future, we wanted her to follow through in something, and we wanted her to begin to take adult responsibility for herself.

I was advised after her suicide attempt that at this point we should just complete it for her because she wasn't capable at the moment.  Yesterday her stepmom told me she is dragging her feet because there will be lump sum back check.  That it will be spent unwisely.  She turns 21 in a few months and that drinking will be involved with her new found financial "windfall" ( it won't really be that much but, to her it will be)  She will move out of my home and surround herself with unsavory characters.  Bad choices will be made that could have dire consequences.  

She is irresponsible with her medications.   She overdosed on Benadryl last summer in an attempt to sleep (is insomnia a characteristic of this cause she has had it since she was 13 years old).  Her stepmom sought help and gave my daughter first aid until she was medi-flighted to a hospital in another state after her shooting herself.  Her step mom feels that to be on her own would be disastrous for her so she has not completed it out of fear.  So by not getting her the services she would qualify for are we holding her back from independence or are we adverting tragedy?  

I went in her room the other day and did a sweep.  I literally give her all doses of her meds.  At 5 am I get up give her pain med., heart med., and anti-depressant.  All day long I give her whatever med is needed.  Recently she was sick with a chest cold and an ear infection.  The Dr. prescribed anti-biotic and a steroid.  The steroid would not only help the ear infection and the inflammation in her lungs but, have the added effect of helping her back & joints that she suffers with pain.  I found many doses of meds. hidden in the oddest places .  She never took the anti-biotic or steroids.  Several anti-depressant doses, heart med. doses, and even the long acting pain med.  I actually was dumbfounded.  

Why would she not take the something that is helping her and she doesn't even have to think about it?  Someone remembers it for her.  It takes more effort for her to hide the dose than to actually just take it.  She wanted to go to the doctor for her acute cold but, then isn't taking the meds.  So this is day 2 of watching her actually take medication.  I didn't say anything about the meds.  I took all the untaken doses.  She hasn't said anything about the doses being gone.  I agree with her step Mom that I certainly wouldn't trust her taking her medications correctly or her ability to make good choices.  BUT, there are days I think is this forever?  And I just need a break!  

[Lynnsie]

I haven't figured out everything yet so I don't know how to quote to respond to specific things that are said but, I want to thank everyone who has responded to what I have shared.  Whether it be with resources to help, kind words of support, or sharing an experience, it all helps!  Thank you all so much!

[lbjnltx]

Hi Lynnsie

It is good to read that you are gaining some insight and knowledge, this is the first step towards improving your situation.

If you believe that your daughter having disability benefits would be detrimental to her well being then there are ways around that.  You can apply to be the payee and manage her finances.  This is another layer of "control" that your daughter may not be happy about.  It is also another way you are taking on responsibility for her long term.  Give it careful thought.

The stashing of meds may be a way to rebel against her feeling any lack of control over her own life... .or it could be that she was hording them with the intent to do self harm later.  And it may have been a form of self harm... .denying oneself care. It's good that you removed them.

We can't know how long and at what levels your daughter will need your involvement.  What we do know is that there are ways to improve yourself and your relationship with her.  When that happens she can improve as well and with therapy become more emotionally and mentally stable which will affect her physical health in a positive way. 

It's all interconnected and interrelated through relationships/cause/effect.  I have learned not to discount even the slightest shift in emotions and beliefs in myself or my daughter.

lbj 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders