Threats

[hellosun]

Hi everyone 

Haven't posted for a while, but my uBPD husband of under a year (in a relationship for almost four years) has come up with a new approach to deal with his out of control feels... .It's the annoyingly immature, but occasionally effective, intentional emotional blackmail aproach!

Today he dysregulated into rage while at work. This has amazingly never happened to this extent before today. The first thing I text him, after reading his angry text messages--which he sent throughout the entire day (no self-soothing evident, just increasing anger with his company)--is a message about how I think he will regret getting fired or quitting. He will. I know he will. But oh boy was that the wrong thing to say.

He went off into the usual accusations ("you never support me, blah blah", and then he pulled the new, "I'm not talking to you anymore. Maybe then you'll learn to appreciate me."  :'(

Okay, I get that he is legitimately upset and in pain. But this dramatic, intentional manipulation is becoming a pattern, and it is not only ridiculous, but it does seem to be intended to hurt me.

The last time he tried this, it was equally blatent: "If you do _____ I will stop talking to you for X days." I told him that threats like that would prove to be ineffective, and if he wanted me to reconsider my decision, he would have to explain his feelings and objections using words. He couldn't manage it, so I tried to give him the words for what I thought was happening ("Would it embarass you?", and he answered yes or no. When I realized why he was upset, I made fair compromises.

A similar episode occurred a few months ago. While upset due to a disagreement or something (I can't remember, think I blocked this memory  ), he claimed that I was supposed to "obey him."    That time, I was all, "what on Earth makes you think that I ever agreed to that?" Lol. It was shocking to me, really. It still is. I have no idea where he came up with that one. Is this something individuals with BPD tend to think?

Any advice for dealing with this kind of intentional threatening behviour? He rarely goes through with the silent treatment for very long, but he sure does try--hanging up the phone on me when we lived hours apart was the worst. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure how we stopped that behaviour. I think I told him it was hurtful, and that it would be less hurtful if he first would tell me that he is feeling upset and needs to hang up. It's like he needs a parent sometimes.

The Lessons have made a genuine difference in my relationship. We have made progress, believe it or not. Haha maybe even this threatening behaviour is a step forward, because it means he is aware of what he is doing?

Thank you so much for this website.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

Emotional manipulation is horrible to deal with.

For the longest time, I didn't have the words to explain what the heck was going on because I didn't recognize his behavior as emotional manipulation. Once I put all of the pieces together, I started telling him, "I feel like you are trying to manipulate me. If you want to do (whatever it was), then you go ahead and do it. That is your choice." You have to be careful about how you say it and the tone that you use. It I screw up and use a snarky or accusatory tone (which I am prone to do), the results are disastrous. If I approach it from a place where I am being honest and open, then it seems to snap him back into reality a bit.

The obey thing probably comes from the traditional marriage vows of "love, honor, and obey". Also, how religious is your husband? Some religions are very much into wives submitting to and obeying their husbands. It isn't unique to BPD. I think it has more to do with culture than anything else. My husband used to talk a lot about Christian duties in marriage, etc. I did my own research and promptly showed him how HE isn't living up to his role as a husband and protector. Probably not the wisest choice but I was sick and tired of the emotional manipulation and him acting like he was somehow better than me because he is (or was) faithful to his religion and I am nothing but a heathen. (He never said those things. That is how I felt as a result of his behavior and the things that he has said over the years.)

[formflier]

 

Threats are something that I have taken a hard line against... .and... .gosh... it's been months... .who knows when last one was.

My recommendation is that any threat be ignored and the conversation over... .leave the room. 

The most famous one was when she thought I was after one of the ladies at church.  She sits down with me in a church pew... .the service starts... .and she starts rubbing the back of my neck in a sensual way. 

I've never been touched that way in church... .  Anyway... .she leans over and whispers in my ear... in kinda an evil voice.

"Kiss my now or our marriage is over... ." and is still doing the sensual touch on my neck.

I don't look at here... .I just stood up  and walked out the door.  Couple hundred people looking at me.  Well... .she apparently follow me out.  Luckily... .we had driven separately... .my plan was to go home... .and take a walk to chill out.

Anyway... .as I'm walking to the car... I realize she has followed and is yammering away about how I love this woman... .we are done... etc etc.

I never looked back.

There have been other incidents like this... .I just leave.

If the threat is kinda vague... .I ask if there is something she wants to discuss a compromise on...

[hellosun]

I ended up texting him back to say "Sounds like your day has been awful. I'm sorry your employer is so unreasonable. If you choose to quit I respect your decision. Please let me know what you decide." He told me to shut up. But he calmed down and was much better regulated thereafter, and once he got home he was able to converse normally.  I did not get an appology, but I did not want to bring the subject up again after the emotionally exhausting day he'd had.

Vortex - Thank you for your response! Love your username btw--confusion indeed. When I first met my husband, I didn't realize he was manipulating me either. Now that he is phrasing things directly, I can spot it fast. 

I really like the line you use to call your husband's attention to his behviour. Today my husband said "f--- you," and other such angry words during his outburst. When he is having an intense outburst like that, I know he probably won't hear what I'm actually saying, so I just validate his feelings and excuse myself from the conversation. But I think I might follow your lead, and confront him. I'll just wait for an opportunity to do so when he is less out of control.

My husband is an athiest, and was not raised in the church. I was, but in a feminist denomination. However, you could still be right. He has more sexist views than I realised when I married him, even if he usually does not act like a misogynist at all. I love that you took on your husband's hypocrisy haha. You are awesome.

formflier - Thank you for your response as well, and for sharing your experience. If my husband pulled something like that, I'd be furious with him. Sounds awful. I'm glad it has been a while since your wife acted that way.

I do think taking a hard line against threats is the best approach. I do not want to encourage threats at all. It would not be good if he started using them as a way to get my attention.

But I'm honestly not sure I would be able to make myself just walk away. Maybe if I said something like "you are making a threat, and that indicates you are too upset to be having this conversation, so I am going to leave for a little while until we both have calmed down?" I'm not sure how it would go over. Could try.

[vortex of confusion]

But I'm honestly not sure I would be able to make myself just walk away. Maybe if I said something like "you are making a threat, and that indicates you are too upset to be having this conversation, so I am going to leave for a little while until we both have calmed down?" I'm not sure how it would go over. Could try.

No, no, no! 

When you state things as "You are doing this or you are doing that" it comes across as very accusatory and will likely send them further into dysregulation. At the very least, it puts them on the defensive and makes communication almost impossible.

Do NOT make YOU statements such as the one you shared!

Reread what I wrote. I said "I FEEL like you are trying to manipulate me." The focus is on me and my feelings rather that what he is saying or doing. It is a lot more difficult to argue with feelings, although they try. I have had him argue with me about it. Because I said "I feel", I was able to say, "I did NOT say that you WERE manipulating me. I said it FELT like you were trying to manipulate me."

That gives him an out so to speak. When I focus on how I am feeling, then it is a lot easier for me to own it without trying to blame him. One of the most powerful things you can do is use I statements instead of YOU statements.

Establishing boundaries takes time, effort, and patience. If you don't think you can walk away, find other ways to set boundaries. I have found that I can get really quiet and he takes notice. Sometimes, he will go off and it won't take long of me giving one or two word responses before he stops. It has taken a while to get to point where I could figure out what boundaries to set and how to do it. Initially, setting boundaries might make things worse because it will completely confuse them.

[hellosun]

vortex -- Ahhh okay. I get it now. So no accusing. Even if it is obvious what they are doing. No "you" statements. Okay!

So... .

"I feel like this conversation has become too heated for me to continue unless I calm down."

or

"I feel upset and would like to take a breather."

or

"I feel unfairly pressured by what you are saying, and would like some space to think."

or

"I feel hurt by what you have said."

These are better? I do think it makes sense. I feel like acusing because it is so obvious what he is doing, but maybe he is not so much focused on his lashing out behaviours, and moreso focused on his emotions.

This is very helpful and smart, thank you!

And thank you for the warning of an adjustment period when beginning to enforce boundries. At this point, I'm not sure if I am communicating boundries well or not. I am still confused about how boundries are to work, because my mother was very controlling even into my young adulthood. So I do not want to be controlling like her (opps, maybe I picked up the controling behaviour of accusing?), but I also do not want to accept abusive behaviours.

Ah well, to start with I will practice: I FEEL _______.

[vortex of confusion]

These are better? I do think it makes sense. I feel like acusing because it is so obvious what he is doing, but maybe he is not so much focused on his lashing out behaviours, and moreso focused on his emotions.

YES! Those are much better. I used to think the same way as you. I used to think, ":)id you just fall off the stupid truck or something? How can you NOT know that what you are doing is manipulative or hurtful?" I didn't say that but I have thought it a time or two. I have been doing a lot of thinking about parenting and some of the advice that I have given parents over the years. It is like saying that a little kid is trying to manipulate you. Sure, some people may see it as manipulation. It isn't manipulation in the sense that they are consciously thinking, "I am going to manipulate you." It is based on their need to get what they want. It is all about unmet needs. The lashing out, the manipulation, etc. is all about them having unmet needs. If you try to say, "You are manipulating me" the natural reaction is for them to be a bit clueless and not know what the heck we are talking about. I have gone round and round with my husband on that over the years.

Also, think about how you feel when somebody accuses you of something that you don't think that you did. If I don't think that I have done something and somebody tries to insist that I did it, I get a bit defensive and angry.

One of my girls asked one time, ":)oes dad have aspergers or autism or something? How can he not understand that?" I don't remember exactly what it was. I think it had something to do with a joke that I was making with a bit of sarcasm. If the kids hadn't been there and laughed and gotten what I said, I might have wondered if I was crazy or something.

And thank you for the warning of an adjustment period when beginning to enforce boundries. At this point, I'm not sure if I am communicating boundries well or not. I am still confused about how boundries are to work, because my mother was very controlling even into my young adulthood. So I do not want to be controlling like her (opps, maybe I picked up the controling behaviour of accusing?), but I also do not want to accept abusive behaviours.

Boundaries have nothing to do with controlling. Boundaries are about protecting yourself. I am still trying to figure out boundaries, which ones to set and how to do it. I know there are a couple of lessons that have information about boundaries in them.

Here is a link to something about boundaries that I found helpful: www.alturtle.com/archives/173

[Fraggle12]

Just to say this thread has been fascinating to read. Emotional manipulation is what I know happens in our relationship but I didn't really understand it and the terminology makes it easier to connect with. Blackmail is a harsh term but that's what I deemed it to be. EM seems easier to deal with/forgive/ignore. So thank you.

[an0ught]

Hi hellosun,

Haven't posted for a while, but my uBPD husband of under a year (in a relationship for almost four years) has come up with a new approach to deal with his out of control feels... .It's the annoyingly immature, but occasionally effective, intentional emotional blackmail aproach! Doing the right thing

The Lessons have made a genuine difference in my relationship. We have made progress, believe it or not. Haha maybe even this threatening behaviour is a step forward, because it means he is aware of what he is doing?

Thank you so much for this website.   

I would tend to think of this as a positive sign.

1) he is comfortable enough in the relationship to experiment

2) he has some sense of boundaries, possibly copying your approach but in a haphazard way.

when you think about growing up - teenagers experiment. Teenagers test boundaries. Teenagers try to establish boundaries. So he graduated from Toddler to Teen 

Another way to look at is this model (it is more a group dynamic model but basic principles the same)

1) Forming

2) Storming

3) Norming

4) Performing

I suspect that the relationship is now somewhere around phase 2-3 where conflict rules and boundaries are established.

I guess you know that you will never have a very calm relationship. Also you know that conflicts can't be avoided. So the question you face is how you want to deal with conflicts in the future and start to telling but being even more clear to model it. Being clear in your mind what your boundaries are. Being clear in your behavior when protecting them. Leaving him the space when he is acting but not crossing of them even if you may know better.

"If you do _____ I will stop talking to you for X days."

This is of course a very controlling way to go about things. Can't be taken too serious. "yeah right" or in some cases "and I won't talk X+1 days with you".

he claimed that I was supposed to "obey him."

"Yes sir!" or "Sure, if you lead in the right direction" or "Men are clearly superior" - Some humor might help to strike a balance here not to weaken his already insecure ego and on the other side signal that this can't be taken too serious.

He is changing. You need to change your tactics too. Demanding at times of him to act more adult, reminding him in subtle ways to act more adult and modeling a more adult behavior. Consider possibly getting back some sense of humor into the relationship when he is ready and you feel comfortable. Remember conflicts are natural in relationships, some fighting (provided it stays within bounds) is ok and you are now establishing the patterns (not rules) of how they will be handled in the long run.

[hellosun]

Vortex -- It does make sense that he is not being intentionally malicious any more than a small child is. I really like the article you linked. It's a lot to digest at once. I'm sure I'll be reading it again. I think the boundry part of the Lessons were the hardest for me to grasp. I should revisit them. Thank you again for you advice.

Fraggle -- I think it is important to call it like I see it in my mind, because it reminds me that absurd behaviour is not normal. Doing that is part of keeping healthy mind boundries, I think. The article Vortex links above explains a bit about that.

an0ught -- Your response was so encouraging! Thank you. I do think he can handle more humour now. I forget to use it when in shock from his outrageous behaviour, but I think there are times when it could help transition him out of a mild dysregulation.

I sometimes get anxious and think he will one day split and view me as all bad for a long period of time, and then act cruel to me to the point I would divorce him. So it would be wonderful if he has reached the "teenage" stage. hah.

Having to adapt as he changes makes sense. It would be wonderful if he could begin to learn to self soothe more. I feel I am often validating the same upset emotions more than once over a day. Perhaps I can back off on the soothing a bit. I know that really going to therepy would probably be helpful to him, but hopefully we will get to that point in the future.

Thanks again, everyone!