My life is not all about them

[Its My Time Now]

So, all three of my long term romantic relationships have been with men with either severe narcissistic personality disorder or BPD or both and probably all of the above. I have wasted decades of my life on them, not counting the nanoseconds of fun I had with them.

But I have to check myself and not allow myself to become vitriolic when it comes to them. They are NOT my life. They have been part of my life and not even the largest part. I refuse to let them be all of my life.

I have done awesome things in my life. Before them, after them and yes, even during them. My life is NOT only them and I refuse to go into some sort of tunnel vision when I look at my life and make it all about them and their miserable disease.

I am a person in my own right and, if anything, they were an episode. A bad one, mostly. Because I allowed them, I now do not trust men and do not want to become romantically involved. But that is okay, because me, all by myself, is great. I have the most wonderful child in the world, thanks to one of them, bless his wicked heart. I have a job I love. I have friends I cherish. My parents are still alive. I have a control freak dog that we love. I have a car. I have a cozy little apartment I rent.

And all of them are out of my life and I move on.

[Mutt]

Before them, after them and yes, even during them. My life is NOT only them and I refuse to go into some sort of tunnel vision when I look at my life and make it all about them and their miserable disease.

"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens." - Carl Jung

HI It's My Time Now,



I'm sorry you had to go through this It's My Time Now.

It's painful when you've had r/s' s with men that have personality disorder traits.

I think we can see things differently when we look inside ourselves.

[Plonko]

Yeah you're right not to trust men, all men are asss... . 

[fromheeltoheal]

You're right My Time, it's not about them it's about you, so have you begun to look at why you entered relationships with 3 men with personality disorders?

[fromheeltoheal]

Yeah you're right not to trust men, all men are asss... . 

So Plonko, anger is a secondary emotion; what's under it that caused the global stereotype?

[Plonko]

Because I allowed them, I now do not trust men

This is where it came from. I was being ironic, the OP has generalised that all men are not to be trusted and I just found it a bit offensive. It seems that the OP considers the problem to be men rather than BPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

Because I allowed them, I now do not trust men

This is where it came from. I was being ironic, the OP has generalised that all men are not to be trusted and I just found it a bit offensive. It seems that the OP considers the problem to be men rather than BPD.

Oh I get it, more sarcastic than ironic, but both can get lost in written form, and how can we help My Time as she finds her way?  We're all here for a reason.

[Plonko]

Yeah I agree fromheeltoheal we are all here for a reason and despite being labelled an untrustworthy man, I probably shouldn't take an off the cuff comment so personally.

Anyway in answer to your question about how we can help, the following suggests the OP is doing quite well on her own. Long may that continue.   

But that is okay, because me, all by myself, is great. I have the most wonderful child in the world, thanks to one of them, bless his wicked heart. I have a job I love. I have friends I cherish. My parents are still alive. I have a control freak dog that we love. I have a car. I have a cozy little apartment I rent.

And all of them are out of my life and I move on.

[Its My Time Now]

Plonko. Wow, more sarcasm and taking my words out of context. I thought I was done with that when I went NC with the BPD   Not very constructive, not very nice and very knee-jerk.

The complete sentence was: "Because I allowed them, I now do not trust men and do not want to become romantically involved." which indicates that it is a feeling that I allowed to grow, because I modeled it on their specific behavior, not because it is realistic.

I never said that I think all men are asss. I, at this point, due to the incredible mental cruelty that I was exposed to for 4 decades, do not trust a man enough to enter into a romantic relationship with one. If it makes you feel any better, I would not enter a romantic relationship with a woman either at this point. I know very well that I am not ready to do so, feeling the way I do and thinking the way I do. If you are truly here to help people, you should not turn to sarcasm and take my experience as a personal assault on you. I understand that maybe you have heard this a lot and took it personal, judging by your remark that I labeled you. I did not, I do not know you.

Just because it is how I feel right now does not make it a fact. I am aware of where it comes from, I think my post explained that.

Now, as to underlying issues: In counseling it came out that I am a caregiver. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are dealing with normal healthy people. It goes wrong when you deal with a BPD person or anybody with healthy boundaries.

All male role models in my family are sweet, loving, trustworthy, empathetic men. I may have been under the impression that, therefor, all men are. Sort of a sugarplum fairy attitude. At age 20, I got to know a guy who, I now know, was a very, very sick person. I was young and it is not like they introduce themselves with "Hi, I am Joe. About two years from now, I will gradually start ruining your self esteem by jokingly tell you you are ugly and I could have done better. I will slowly build this up to where I pull guns on you and also threaten to kill the dogs if you leave me. I will eventually fire a gun next to your head, it will miss you by inches. I will also sleep around like there is no tomorrow and come home reeking of another woman and no, I do not mean her perfume. I will then demand to have sex with you, because I am a sick ass and it turns me on... ."

When I write this, I can see more rolling eyes and I can hear people think "Why didn't she leave, why did she stay for 13 years?" I am a pretty bright person, but you have to realize that you are dealing with masters in manipulation. In one of my other posts I already mentioned that my counselor started his career in a penitentiary institution and that there was a very high concentration of people with BPD in there. He told me that it scared even him, as a professional therapist, to notice how he could get sucked in by their charm and charisma. It is what they do.

So, coming out of that relationship and fully believing that yes, he was a nasty person, but he was also very smart (doctor) and very rich and successful, some of what he said may have been true. He could have done better than me. You don't think that out loud, but it lingers in the back.

Second one was a mommas boy. We lived together and worked together and his parents worked with us. They also expected us to spend every free moment with them. BF had been an only child for 13 years and he was in love with his mother. Not loved her, IN love with her. He and I could not fight, because she would step in and take his side and defend him. I worked and made the money while he sat home and drank coffee and watched TV. But, because I had three people constantly telling me that that was okay (he, his mother and his father), I did not stand up and told them screw you. A lot more and a lot worse went on in that relationship and the previous one, but I don't want to go into details, because it upsets me a lot still and I want to have a nice day.

I did leave in the end, only to get to know my 3rd lack of judgment. He seemed so different, so loving and he got genuinely upset when I told him about my previous relationships. I remember him saying "If we are walking together and you see that guy (the one mistreating the dogs), don't tell me, because I will kill him!" It was mirroring lifted to the level of a fine art. He was everything I needed at that point. He worshiped me, showed me off, told me constantly how beautiful I was, how creative, how smart. How lucky he was to have me. How good his life was going to be, now that I was in it... .

Anyway, remember that I had never heard of BPD and narcissists for me were just people who loved to look at themselves and think how pretty they were. Alcoholics (ex BPD is a dry drunk) were people that went to meet in classrooms and churches after hours. They would wear messy raincoats and would sit on benches with their heads bowed in shame. Somebody would lecture them and they would promise to behave and go back into the world and never do it again. Yes, I was that naive.

He also drowned me in sad stories about his childhood. He told me he had been married twice. He was good in talking about both his ex wives. He never said anything outright bad about them, but in the end, you still felt like they were to blame for the marriages failing, not him.

We both struggled for 9 years, together, apart, together, apart, till we finally divorced. During the last of our conversations, he flew into a full blown rage, the worst he had ever had. He accused me of all kind of stuff, would get even more furious when I reminded him of how things really went and could prove that, as opposed to how they lived in his head. He got close to a seizure and started threatening to walk to Walgreens and get booze and that that was all my fault. Well, we have all been there and heard that. His last remark was that I was crazy and should go into counseling.

I did not straight away, but I did start to Google his symptoms: the mood-swings, never knowing who would come into the door at night, Jekyll or Hyde, the confabulation, the splitting, the mirroring. I did not know these terms then, but I learned fast. I read Stop Walking On Eggshells and I began to understand that it was no longer they having mental issues, but that, having lived with them and having been exposed to them, I was by now damaged goods myself.

Went into counseling and learned a lot on how they work and on how I lacked setting boundaries, because I really never had had any need for them, growing up.

I like my men adventurous. I like non conformists. Because the men in my family are like that. They are also hard working, loving, trustworthy, good husbands and fathers.

But my mistake lies in getting to know a narcissist or a BPD person and think that that is what they are. What I think is being adventurous is in reality immaturity and typical substance abuser behavior. What I first believed to be non conformism is rather selfishness and being self centered. It is a huge sense of entitlement. What I believe to be good, healthy qualities in the guy over time turn out to be a relation nightmare.

I think I want them to be like my healthy male role models so much that I am in denial about all the horrible things the BPD does and turn a blind eye to them and focus on the few good moments we have. And let's face it, BPD partners can be awesome and funny and sexy and exciting and loving as well. It is just that the rest of their crap makes what little good they offer just not worth it.

Ex BPD and myself tried the friends with benefits thing, because I thought that, not being around him all the time, I could enjoy the good things we had and would not have to suffer the nightmare we had. That didn't work. It is same ol', same 'ol, just not all the time. But still totally detrimental and destructive.

So I went NC and that was a year and one month ago.

I am still not ready to date anybody. I just don't want it enough. I am enjoying the peace and tranquility of my life as it is now. My son, the dog and myself. My job, which I love. My apartment. To know that whoever comes over my doorstep is not going to be vitriolic, sarcastic, destructive and nasty. There is an enormous weight that has been lifted from my shoulders. I used to walk around with clenched teeth all the time, up to having muscular cramps in my jaws. No more, he is not coming back and that feels really good and for the moment, that is all I want.

I hope this explains my attitude toward romantic relations a bit better. I know I have work to do, but for now, I am taking a break and enjoying the serenity.

[Plonko]

Hey my time, that last comment of mine wasn't meant to be sarcastic at all, and certainly wasn't knee jerk, it was (based on the quote)  saying that you really do sound like you're doing ok and being positive.

[Its My Time Now]

I know, but that does not make your first comment disappear and that was the one I was replying to.

One of the best quotes I have ever read:

"Grab a plate and throw it on the ground.

-Okay, done.

Did it break?

-Yes.

Now say sorry to it.

-Sorry.

Did it go back to the way it was before?

-No.

Do you understand?"

So, this is a way out of proportion quote in this case, as I did not break etc. but it is about the principle. You say something, people will react. To what you said before and to what you say now.

I do not believe in robbing people of their consequences anymore. That is one thing I learned in counseling.

[fromheeltoheal]

Lots of good work there with boundaries My Life.  You mention you like men who are adventurous, non conformist, hard working, loving, trustworthy, good husbands and fathers, like the men in your family, and you mistook the men you got in relationships with as having those qualities, but they really didn't.  I know you don't want a relationship right now and are good where you're at, but just hypothetically, what is the tip-off?  How will you know in the future what a man's real qualities are early so you end up with the right kind of man?  For me, it's paying attention to gut feel; something felt "off" with my ex right from the very beginning, but I chose to ignore it because the love bombing felt so good; note to self; ignoring my gut feel in relationships usually ends up being extremely painful, so I shouldn't do that anymore.

[Plonko]

By not robbing people of consequence, do you mean holding a grudge and never letting it go? If not then I'm not entirely sure what you mean?

I said I shouldn't have taken your original comment so personally although at the time I was speaking as a male in general that could have been offended by the comment rather than myself personally. If you are determined to hang on to the original comment tenaciously though, then so be it. I could equally hang on to the original man hating comment despite you trying to explain that I've taken it out of context. Alternatively I could accept your explaination and having resolved the misunderstanding. Which do you think is healthiest?

Having said that maybe a little bit of thought and it won't come as such a surprise when a comment like that saying that you don't trust men (whether you mean it that way or not) provokes a cynical, negative response from men?  

[Pingo]

Plonko, I read nothing offensive in a woman saying she has trouble trusting men after her bad experience. These are her feelings which she has a right to. She never once said she thought men were asss or that she hated men... .why did you jump to this conclusion, why is this so triggering for you?

Its My Time Now, I am sorry for what you have been through. I also admire your outlook that you aren't going to let these r/ss define you. It is so easy to do so. I recently worked on a timeline of my life and seeing all the failed r/ss down on paper was a bit depressing. It is easy to feel like I wasted my life. Thank you for reminding me that there is more to who I am than the failed r/ss I've had.

[Its My Time Now]

Fromheeltoheal, the issue of paying more attention to my gut feelings came up in counseling as well. My counselor pointed out that nine out of ten times gut feelings are legitimate warnings to underlying issues.

Ex BPD person and myself lived far away from each other and I was the one who did the relocating, for practical reasons. I remember packing up my stuff to move and hiding from my family to cry, because something felt wrong and something was telling me not to go ahead with it. But I ignored that.

He and I started out as pen pals with a common interest and we wrote and chatted probably for a year, as friends. He slowly took it to a romantic level, I was not really looking for anybody at that point. I remember getting the first photo of him and I thought "Cr*p, he has the eyes of a serial killer!"   There was just something missing in them. But I ignored that too, as how he talked was contrary to my gut feelings.

You know, on hindsight, the fact that his very devout. fundamentalist Christian second wife decided being divorced and pregnant was to be preferred to being married to him, should have told me something, huh?  

There were countless red flags, as there were in the previous two relationships, but I willingly and knowingly choose to ignore them. Arrogance on my part, thinking that I could make it okay and make it work, part of total out of proportion optimism, part being severely naive and underestimate how dry drunks can be and not being educated on narcissism and BPD. Combine that with a master of manipulation and you are screwed.

I need to pay more attention to my gut feelings. I need to know when to call it quits and that has to be a lot sooner than my usual average of a decade. I need to set boundaries and not feel guilty or allow myself to be made feel guilty over installing them and insisting on them.

Odd thing is that I have no issues living by those rules on a daily base, just when it comes to romantic relationships, I lose those criteria.

I have this theory and I call it Charlie's Angels syndrome. Growing up in the 70s and 80s and fighting for sexual equality, it was all cool, but basically, what it amounted to was that we, women, got to screw around without being judged, but we were still expected to make breakfast for them in the morning. We were equal, but had to look like Victoria's Secrets models while doing that. We were some sort of weird geisha/bionic woman morph. Having all the rights of a Modern Woman, but still having all the obligations of the Stepford Wife.

I know this still happens, but it was very strong in those days. We put up with so much things we should not have. Maybe that shaped me more than I realized and the BPDs just took it from there?

[Its My Time Now]

Pingo, thanks, I feel the same way as you about Plonkos comments and by the way, if you two ever marry, you would sound like a Nintendo game together  As it is, I just don't have it in me to verbally sparr him anymore, at least the direction it is going into at this thread. I have had decades of these kinds of convos and I don't want to play anymore.

Plonko, let's leave it at agreeing to disagree, okay?

[Mutt]

It's good to hear you feel less tense. I thought the same that narcissism was vanity and had only heard of BPD in pop-culture and didn't understand my that partner was highly dysfunctional.


I also enjoy being a bachelor and comfortable being with myself and when the time and right person comes along, I'm confident that I'll know. I trust and follow my intuition now and am a lot more aware of people's behaviors and compartments. If I met a person now that is very charming, puts me on a high pedestal ans wants to move along quickly it raises a now.


I moved in quickly with my ex partner and didn't really know the person and another side was exposed. I'd take my time, establish a friendship and get to know the person first and I have boundaries now whereas I didn't before. Everyone's situation and experience is different.

I certainly don't want another r/s with a person with personality disorder traits and the experiences I had were ones with alot of growth and learning about myself.

[Its My Time Now]

It sounds like you are in a good place right now, Mutt.

I think what also keeps me from dating etc. is the fact that I am raising a teen son by myself right now (I am an "older" mom  ). He is a good kid, studies hard, gets good grades and for now, I don't want to maybe jeopardize the tranquility we have now. I want to see him go into college and university and I want to focus on that. He has already told me that I can keep our control-freak old dog when he leaves, so I won't be lonely  .

After my son goes his own way, I can see myself maybe be open to getting to know somebody in a romantic sense. If it is too late or it does not happen, that is fine too. I have been alone before and enjoyed it and I can totally see my old mutt and myself have a quality life without a romantic partner involved. I think I feel good enough by myself so as to not need another person to confirm my existence. I could go with or without and either would be fine. I am pretty sure I would not go looking for a relationship, but rather, if it happens, it happens.

I think if I was younger, I would feel different and probably go out and socialize more. I have a lot of younger female friends that have gone through divorce and I see them go that road and applaud them for it.

[Plonko]

Yeah of course my time and I do genuinely wish you well and hope everything works out well for you.

Pingo (good name btw ) triggering is maybe over-dramatising my feelings somewhat haha. I was just (probably slightly unfairly and maybe a little mischievously) picking up on what seemed like a bit of an unfair generalisation. It really wasn't as big a deal as it might have looked.

[Mutt]

There was a period where I felt anxious, frustrated and scared that I may not meet someone else because it felt like things were complicated and I was close to closing my heart.

I had read an excerpt from Carl Jung if we truly need relationships. Men and women compliment each other although we don't necessarily need to be in relationships. I think I was hurt at the time and felt like a clock was ticking with finding an ideal person as well, my kids are young and I decided to focus my attention on them and not so much on relationships.

I think it helps finding someone that has similar emotional scars and I chose to not close my heart, my definition of love has changed; an unconditional one and not one where it's overwhelming for me and a one-way transaction.

The future will come on it's own terms and in the present I'm happy with how things are. Above all what I enjoy is the peace and serenity; the chaos and drama out of my life and my kids are adjusting well and happy.

[Its My Time Now]

I had those same feelings. Also, I am getting close to 60 and I imagine my life as I grow older and maybe develop health issues and being all alone.

But then I realize that, even if I had a life partner, both of us could develop health issues, so that's no guarantee either and it is not the right motivation to enter a relationship. If I want that, I should get a live in nurse, not a partner.

I do miss sitting down and unwinding at the end of a busy day and talk about things that happened. Not that my ex BPD was all ears, far from it, but he had his moments. And sometimes I do miss that: adult conversation. My kid is a teen and we love hanging out, but there are things I would not discuss with him that I would with an adult romantic partner.

There is also the financial insecurity. It is easier to pay rent and electricity with two incomes, for example. But that having been the major reason I hung unto my ex BPD in the end, I really don't want to go there and use that as a reason to hook up. I would rather be poor, but financially independent.

And then, there are those moments when I wake up in the middle of the night and I roll over from the hot pillow onto the nice, cool one and I can spread myself out in that big bed, all by myself, like a squashed fly and I think "Hell, no, ain't nobody going to take away that bed from me!"

I realize I can't have my cake and eat it and all. I honestly think that, after the life I have had, I would not want to live with somebody permanently. I could see myself in a living apart together situation. Both with their own place, but going out to dinner or the movies at times and an occasional adult sleep over or a road trip, committed, but nothing permanent. I need my space right now and catch up for all those decades of being somebody I was not, for the sake of pleasing somebody else.

[Mutt]

I need my space right now and catch up for all those decades of being somebody I was not, for the sake of pleasing somebody else.

Be who you really are and go the whole way - Lao Tzu

It sounds like you're comfortable in your own skin, know what you want and are in a good place too 

[apollotech]

"I have done awesome things in my life. Before them, after them and yes, even during them. My life is NOT only them and I refuse to go into some sort of tunnel vision when I look at my life and make it all about them and their miserable disease.

I am a person in my own right and, if anything, they were an episode. A bad one, mostly. Because I allowed them, I now do not trust men and do not want to become romantically involved. But that is okay, because me, all by myself, is great."

Hi IMTN,

Welcome, but I am sorry that you have gained membership to our most undesirable club. You are correct, it is not about them. You, just being you by yourself is great.

I understand that you have been hurt, and that you need time to heal. We have all been there. You sound like a very "knowing" and "strong" person. So I am a little baffled here: if you allow them to dictate your future actions, thoughts, and feelings, isn't that giving them your future as well? They already have your past. Why would you give them your future? When/if, after you have healed, you enter into a new relationship, be wary of dragging them into it as well.

You are correct, they were an episode.