Feeling really down

[maxsterling]

I've dealt with plenty of BPD dysregulations, plenty of verbal abuse, plenty of scary moments, etch.  But I also think I have done pretty well at not personalizing, moving on, and not being resentful. n Through all this, my attitude has still been positive, patient, and optimistic.

But over the weekend she had a dysregulation, and this time I just feel down ever since.  I feel pessimistic, hopeless, unmotivated, anxious, and depressed.  Her dysregulation was the same broken record-she's in too much pain, life is hopeless, this or that will never happen, our wedding was a waste of money, her life has no purpose, she hates living here, etch.  I've listened to the same rant about 100 times before.  But over the weekend, in the middle of her rants, I just started crying, and have felt incredibly down and broken ever since. 

What is different about this time?  This particular rant of hers ranks pretty low on the grand scale of negative rants.   I'm trying to climb my way out of it, but I've never been depressed like this.  I've tired getting back into a hobby I had neglected for months, trying to take some "me" time, and it helps, but I just feel so far behind and lost.  I go to work and can't concentrate.  I come on here and don't feel like either reading or posting.  I don't feel like doing much of anything. 

I've already been taking a low dose of an SSRI to help with anxiety side effects of ADHD meds.  Maybe I need to talk to my P about a higher dose?  If I was on my own, I think I would feel confident of eventually working out of it.  But I can tell W is getting impatient with me, and I worry that her impatience will get worse.  I've already communicated to her that I felt stressed after her last rant, and she is mostly accepting of that.  But now she seems to want sex, and I just can't get in the right frame of mind for that right now.  How do I communicate with her that I need some space without her feeling abandoned and dysregulating again?  I feel so down that I don't even feel there motivation to use the communication tools on this website.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm wondering if you feel that way because there is nothing going on to keep you "involved" and not dealing with your feelings.  The wedding was an escape mentally and you did not have to address much possibly.

[Loosestrife]

I visited a friend recently and thought 'what a boring life you lead'! Thinking about it, he actually has a great life with a healthy relationship and family. I've just gotten so used to the drama and living with a heightened level of anxiety that it's become the norm for me. In between the drama I feel drained from it all and quite down, but when the drama is happening it does make you forget your self, that's kinda what BPD does to the non... .

[vortex of confusion]

   

I can relate to your feelings. It has occurred to me that part of the reason that I am feeling so down is that I don't really have anything to look forward to as it feels like I live life one day at a time. I don't see an end in sight. It is one foot in front of the other day after day after day. It is very disheartening and makes it really difficult to find the strength to use the tools or get motivated to do much.

[sweetheart]

Max I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.      

I want to echo what ML has already said, you've had a compelling distraction these last few months planning your wedding. I wonder if there was a part of you that thought things might improve or level out after it was all over.

You're w already knows you are struggling, it might be that nothing can prevent her dysregulating. Perhaps just saying that you feel down is enough, no tools or techniques necessary.

Talk to your P and see what their advice is about your medication.

You say on your own you would probably pull out of this, can you say why and have you felt like this before ?  

[Grey Kitty]

I've already communicated to her that I felt stressed after her last rant, and she is mostly accepting of that.  But now she seems to want sex, and I just can't get in the right frame of mind for that right now.  How do I communicate with her that I need some space without her feeling abandoned and dysregulating again?

You aren't going to like my answer, but here it is. You don't communicate that without her (most likely) feeling abandoned and (most likely) dysregulating.

You take care of yourself.   You need space. Take it. Time for her to find some coping mechanisms that don't lean on you quite so hard.

When you don't have energy for any of the communication tools, stick to boundary enforcement only. It protects you best at the least cost to yourself.

[maxsterling]

Thanks, everyone.  Sorry, don't have much energy for a long response -

GK - I did want to mention that is what I have been doing.  She apparently got into some kind of argument with her AA sponsee (couldn't let things go), then her pain and migraines ramped up.  She wanted to vent to me, I basically didn't have energy to go down that path with her while I sit at work, so I ignored it and went for a walk around the building.  Not that I don't care, it's that I just lack the energy to listen to her negativity today.  The communication tools (like validating) just feel like an invitation to engage.

[Loosestrife]

Thanks, everyone.  Sorry, don't have much energy for a long response -

GK - I did want to mention that is what I have been doing.  She apparently got into some kind of argument with her AA sponsee (couldn't let things go), then her pain and migraines ramped up.  She wanted to vent to me, I basically didn't have energy to go down that path with her while I sit at work, so I ignored it and went for a walk around the building.  Not that I don't care, it's that I just lack the energy to listen to her negativity today.  The communication tools (like validating) just feel like an invitation to engage.

Sounds like you looked after yourself today. Well

Done! 

[Grey Kitty]

When you feel that spent, don't even try to validate.

It won't go well.

And if it does, it still is costing you too much.

I'm glad you are taking care of yourself.

Is there anything more you can do to take care of yourself?

[formflier]

 Hang in there max!   

Take time for yourself... .don't look back.  She will have something to say about it... but it will blow over... like the others.

FF

[maxsterling]

I'm still feeling down, but today feels a bit better.  I still feel as if I have a million things to do and I am behind on all of them.  I went to an alanon meeting last night - it helped.   W was going to go to a meeting of her own, but she stayed home and watched TV and did some 12-step work. 

I did a little bit of hobby related stuff last night and again this morning.  It helps.  This morning she asked me when we are going to have sex again, said she feels rejected when I say "no".  I told her that I just haven't been feeling well lately without giving too many details.  She then said it was okay for me to not feel like sex, and that she just needs to know that I still find her attractive (the whole sex=love thing pwBPD have).  The real issue is that when I see her so down and negative and complaining of pain it is just a turnoff for me.  And now me feeling down myself, sex is the last thing that I feel like right now. 

[Grey Kitty]

I'm glad you are feeling a little better. Keep taking care of yourself. This will pass.

I've got another question for you about sex with your wife. You've mentioned a bunch of times how she REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to have a baby, and that you don't want to be bringing a child into the chaos of your house. Which brings me to a touchy question for you to think about (and NOT talk about with her).

Do you trust her to use birth control properly? I could imagine her deciding that she deserves a baby, and choosing not to take birth control, or even to sabotage it potentially. Of course it depends on what method you are using--you can make certain that condoms are used properly, but you don't know if she is taking the pill every day or not.

[hellosun]

I feel turned off by my husband when he is acting angry or negatively, as well. I think that is completely normal. Glad you are taking time for yourself, and respecting your emotional state.

[maxsterling]

GK - I have not trusted her with birth control from the onset of this R/S, hand have consistently insisted on using condoms.  She's griped about that before, but I haven't waivered.  

[Grey Kitty]

Whew! Not so worried about you now.

Somewhere along the line, I realized that what you are afraid of is probably the most common form of sexual abuse perpetrated by women upon men--making the guy a parent against his will/knowledge.

Stick to your guns on this one. 

If you end up having to get a divorce, not having a custody battle as part of it will make it soo much easier.

[maxsterling]

Whew! Not so worried about you now.

Somewhere along the line, I realized that what you are afraid of is probably the most common form of sexual abuse perpetrated by women upon men--making the guy a parent against his will/knowledge.

Stick to your guns on this one. 

If you end up having to get a divorce, not having a custody battle as part of it will make it soo much easier.

Oh believe me, I have gotten the guilt trips over my insistence of using condoms. 

"don't you love me?"

"don't you trust me?"

And the one time there was  the big eye rolling sigh and her disengaging when I reached for a condom.  I brought this up later, told her I felt like I was being used, and that brought on a HUGE scary dysregulation (before I knew about BPD).

To me, all that is sexual abuse/manipulation.  Of course, she sees it the other way, and me wanting to use a condom is sexual abuse upon her 

[maxsterling]

Still feeling down - I get the feeling I will feel this way for a long time.  This isn't one of those few days things, but probably a pattern switch that will last months.  I just have to recognize it, and work on myself.

MC was yesterday.  I was able to successfully communicate that I am feeling down and depressed and stressed.  W doesn't fully understand why or how, but I was careful not to try and postulate an explanation.  I simply said that is how I feel, and when I feel this way I  don't feel the mood for sex, and that I need alone time and time for my personal interests in order to feel better about myself.  T validated this, W didn't seem to have an issue with my feelings.  That's a big improvement over before.  I also said that I also need alone time with her, without our phones ringing, without concerns over other people, where it is just the two of us.  W also received this well. 

W also wanted to spend considerable time discussing our lack of sexual activity of late, was open to owning her part of the issue and discussing this further at a later session.  She also wanted to spend considerable time discussing baby/pregnancy stuff and frustration that I am not showing excitement.  I did successfully communicate that I am having a hard time feeling excited about anything this week, feel stressed, and that for the short term I need to focus on myself and living one day at a time. 

It actually was one of the more productive MC sessions on my end.  Of course, I was ready to just get home and veg thinking my wife would understand, but as soon as we walked in the door she was complaining about her pain, and giving me a hard time about something (that I can't even remember what it was now).  I think it was the "oh great - he's feeling crummy, who is going to take care of me now - frustration).

[Notwendy]

I hope you have also kept those condoms locked up.

Years ago, I heard a story of an abusive husband putting pin holes in his wife's diaphragm. I don't know if it is true, but from what I know about this person, I think he is capable of being that deceiving. I don't know your wife, but I would be as safe as possible. Good for you for sticking to your boundaries.

[cloudten]

I'm sorry- this discussion on birth control bothers me a lot and I have to say something.

Everyone get outside of the BPD world here for a minute.

Regardless of BPD... .

If you two couldn't agree on whether or not you wanted to have children, why did you get married?

Whether she is BPD or not, having kids is a "normal" thing to expect from a marriage- and if you two weren't on the same page about it, this would be disastrous for ANY marriage. And anyone, BPD or not, is perfectly capable of forgetting a pill or sabotaging a condom.

Did you two agree to not have children?

Also, you are 100% responsible for your own reproductive health. If you never ever want children, then there are permanent ways to fix that.

[Grey Kitty]

If I recall correctly, the problem isn't that max doesn't want to ever have children... .but that he doesn't want to have children with his wife in her current state of mental illness.

And if he's at all honest about this, he probably expects her to dysregulate/explode.

Whether this could/should have been resolved prior to marriage isn't going to help max in his current circumstances.

[workinprogress]

 

I can relate to your feelings. It has occurred to me that part of the reason that I am feeling so down is that I don't really have anything to look forward to as it feels like I live life one day at a time. I don't see an end in sight. It is one foot in front of the other day after day after day. It is very disheartening and makes it really difficult to find the strength to use the tools or get motivated to do much.

+1 to everything you said!

[maxsterling]

GK - yeah, that's pretty much it.  I think part of my depression is mourning the loss of what could have been (travel, kids, etc.) because I know if nothing changes, about all I can handle is day-to-day.  And that has been the way I have been dealing with things the past months or year or so - day to day.  One step forward, etc. 

Having children is still a dream.  It's just that my body and mind are both telling me that it is a bad idea right now.  I can function and manage if things are day-to day.  Long term?  I shut down. 

So here I am knowing that I can't jump steps ahead.  The wedding is over.  She's OBSESSIVELY moving forward to the "preparing to have a baby" stage.  And the reality?  She told me less than a week ago that she not only wanted to die, BUT THAT SHE WANTED ME TO KILL HER.  If she (and we) could stop with the baby stuff for the short term, and just focus on our own personal health, I could be okay.  Not only does she need to do it, but I need to do it.  I feel like I have put so much effort into just managing that I don't know who I am right now. 

The key is boundaries, and getting back to "me".

[Grey Kitty]

You've got a tough situation here... .every time she WANTS BABY you end up saying "no, not now." I'm sure it goes over badly every time.

One boundary/approach you could try is: "I'm not willing to make a baby in 2015. We'll talk about it next year."

I know your issue is more her stability... .but how fast can she get treated and heal? I don't see it happening in less than a year.

I'm sure something like that would go over badly too.

But it would be different, at least.

I'm sleepy and just rambling here--I like to think I give good advice in these forums... .and this is way more loose cannon type advice than I usually give! Please take me with a grain of salt!

[maxsterling]

GK - part of the issue is I think she has doubts herself about having a baby.   Yet if i tried to discuss it with her, perfect excuse to blame me. 

Tonight was bad.  I'm down, but she was more down.  And she snapped at me for a rather innocent comment, and ST for most of the rest of the night.  Real issue was shame and other stuff going on with her.  My one inconsiderate joking comment was enough for her to blame her entire ruined day on me.  BTW the comment was of the type that us nons weather by the dozens every day.  Actually, if little comments like that were all I had to deal with, I'd be lucky. 

[Notwendy]

In some ways your posts remind me of my parents' situation. I realize that is was difficult for my father, yet, this was the choice he made, and he was devoted to my mother. Your wife's focus on the wedding, then feeling anxiety afterwards and looking towards having a baby is reminiscent of my mother's thinking - that the solution is something outside of herself- just like the 'blame" for her unhappiness is. When she is obsessed over something, even though she is anxious about it, that obsession has an external focus. It is like co-dependency- where being focused on someone else takes the focus off oneself. For my mother, the anxiety is a part of her, and it would go from one thing to another. Inevitably- the thing she focused on didn't solve the problem, and so there was a next thing.

I don't recall all of them, and some I was surely not aware of. I do know that my father tried to provide what she wanted. He did mention a vacation that she "had" to have when we were younger. When I was older, she did the same thing- decided we had to do this, and so coerced all of us to take time off for it. I remember being surprised by it as I had just started a summer job that I liked, and the next thing, I was being "told" that I had to quit and take this family vacation that would "save" my parents marriage. Mom decided that Dad had to take time off since he was in a bad mood and it had to be his job doing that. I don't think it was his job. In our home, we knew that when mom wanted something, we had better all do it and not argue.

I am certainly glad they had me! However, I will say that my father took on the major part of raising me and it was a huge responsibility to be supporting the family and the main parent as well as being in a relationship with my mother. When I was younger, my parents lived near my grandparents, and I suspect that they also took on a major parenting role. My father also hired household help- sitters and housekeepers. He did have to go to work. We used to resent it- wondering why, if our mom was home, she wasn't like all the other moms- taking us to the park and so on, but we were mostly with sitters. Now I am thankful for that.

I don't doubt that my mother "wanted" me, but my mothers "wanting" is mostly related to her internal feelings and not the other person, and babies are their own individuals. I recognize now, like you do Max, that my mom is trying her best, but she also has a mental illness and her 'best" is unique to her.

The one thing that stands out to me in your posts is that you, in your present state, do not desire a child at the moment, nor do you seem to have the mental energy to do the job of raising one. My father was able to hire sitters. There were many times he would put us kids in the car and take us all out for dinner, to get us away from mom. On weekends, he took us kids out to museums, parks. Mom stayed home. I think you get the picture. So do us kids.

However, parents need self care. A depressed, exhausted, and emotionally burned out parent must take care of themselves before they can care well for someone else. This is where I agree with you using condoms- to take care of yourself- no matter what she wants.

[maxsterling]

She's still down this morning.  Glad she went to her AA meeting, and I will go to an alanon meeting.  She has other activities planned, so I should get some alone time. 

Before bed, she wanted to vent again about her AA sponsee.  And she expressed her frustrations with her food binges, about how we have unhealthy food in the house, and about how she fears coming off her medications.  And then she wanted to bring up again what I had said. 

So what did I say?  She is going to sing a song for mothers day as part of a group music therapy.  They are having some kind of special mothers' day event.  Her mother is deceased, so this has considerable meaning for her.  It's also a big deal for her to perform like this.  She had been talking about what song to sing, what others are singing.  And last night there was a funny song on the TV and she said, "I like this song".  My response?  "Haha.  Maybe you should sing this song for your pageant."  She's upset that I called it a "pageant", as if I was making fun of it or her.  Honestly, at that moment, I stumbled with what to call it.  I said "pageant" because the first word that popped into my head was "recital" and that sounded even worse.   

I'm hoping today goes better. 

[Grey Kitty]

   to what Notwendy said... .and let me bit a bit more direct.

Telling your wife that you won't have a child right now because she's not stable enough isn't going to go over well.

Telling her that your life isn't stable enough to add a child to it is equally honest and a lot less triggering.

I'm assuming that you figured out a long time ago that explaining to your wife that she is the primary source to your distress doesn't work well. So the fact that the chaos she adds to your life is the main reason you aren't ready... .isn't worth telling her.

I don't believe you have the financial ability to support your wife, a child, and pay for childcare, like Notwendy's dad did.

[Notwendy]

I will add to the discussion of financial resourses. Yes, my father was in a good position to support us and hire help. He didn't start out with debt. He had an good job and my parents were comfortable. However, comfortable did not mean wealthy and there were limits to the budget. The majority of the family resources went to hiring help and keeping my mother comfortable. We had what we needed, but we also had to make concessions for her needs.

Still, I credit having help as a major impact on our well being, and it was extensive. Full time live in nannies and housekeepers. My mother did not clean the house, cook much, or have responsibility for us when we were little.

Although I have a mother, and I have a relationship with her, I consider my father to have been my parent. He was ":)addy". 

[Verbena]

Max,

Exactly one year ago today my daughter announced that she was pregnant.  I was completely shocked (she and her husband were not trying at all and she faithfully took her BC pills), then elated, then very worried because my daughter is BPD. 

Two years ago I would have been devastated at the news she was becoming a mother, but she has come a long way since then.  She still thinks like a pwBPD because she is one, but her behavior is dramatically better than it has been in the past--from what I can see.  She will be 30 in June. 

I am happy to report that from all indications having a baby has helped her tremendously.  She is a wonderful mother.  Her husband is a wonderful father.  And my five-month old grandson is the light of my life. 

I am not saying all this because I think a baby will "save" your wife.  In fact, I think it could be disastrous to leave a baby/child in your wife's care. 

As awful and out-of-control as my daughter's behavior has been many times in the past, it was nowhere near the level of what you have described concerning your

wife--both now and in the past before you met her.  BPD is a serious mental illness no matter what.  I'm not under any illusions that my daughter could regress, nor do I believe she will ever overcome this mental illness completely.  It was always be there because her brain is different. 

I feel that the level of your wife's mental illness is far too serious to even consider going along with the idea of her becoming a mother.  I know this has to be heartbreaking for you--and her.  It truly is like mourning a loss of what could have been. 

Continue to take care of yourself.  You have an enormous burden on your shoulders. 

[maxsterling]

I did express to her yesterday that I was feeling depressed.  I tried to not give explanations, and just left it at that I feel down and just need to work through it on my own.  Her response?  Tears, wanting to know why, abandonment triggers, shame.  Of course, that did not help me, but definitely better than an angry response from her.  I don't think I could have hidden my depression any longer, so I'm glad it came out.  Of course her behavior is part of the reason I am feeling down, but I don't say that.   I tell her is my issue to deal with.

I think I understand better what is going on for me.  Through the process of this relationship and wedding, I've put many of the creative things I like to do on hold.  Those things are my identity.  And recently, I've had people come up to me and say that they like my paintings or other creative projects and that I am very talented.  And then I think that I haven't really done any of those creative activities since this relationship began.  I got a letter from the city saying my yard was too overgrown - I used to be on top of that!  And my vintage car was not running well - that used to never happen - I was always on top of that!  Our house guests the past few weeks admired my paintings, asked about them.  I've barely picked up a paintbrush in two years.  I think the past few months I kept myself going, putting that energy into this wedding.  And when W would complain about the wedding prior to the wedding, it was tough, but not so bad because I still had that forward focus, and I could excuse her behavior as nervousness or anxiety or stress. 

But now that the wedding is over and she complains, it is crushing.  Why?  Because the wedding and the relationship has replaced the things I like to do.  It became my identity.  When she complains the photos didn't come out right, it feels like she is tearing away at the only scrap of identity I have left.  I put everything else on hold for this r/s and wedding, and the complaints feel like they completely invalidate me.