NC 1 1/2 years / Facebook / knot in my stomach

[GuiltHaunted]

Hi everyone,

Here I am again. 

My ex (4 year R/S, 2 years broke up, 1 1/2 years NC), made a new Facebook profile. She is was very paranoid about Facebook, and her old profile(s), newer showed any information, fake name and not even a profile picture.

I see that she made a new profile because mutual friends, just became friends with her. It's obvious, because it's her name spelled backwards. The new profile is a bit more open, so I can e.g. see her friends list. My replacement, with whom she replaced me immediately and, to my knowledge, she was together with at least until recently is not on her list.

It's all coming together that it is her birthday tomorrow!

I can't help but to think the thought if I should send her a birthday greeting. Just the though of breaking NC brings a knot to my stomach, that I haven't felt for at least a year now.

Please talk some sense into me!

[mywifecrazy]

Listen to the Knot in your stomach! Stay NC. Block her on FB so you don't accidentally view her profile or posts. Focus on you and move forward. If she's BPD and toxic you don't want that in your life.

Good luck!

MWC... .

[Mr Hollande]

Block her and be done with it.

[GuiltHaunted]

Thank you for the replies.

The profile is, like her previous ones, still very secretive. I.e. no profile picture etc. So, there are no triggers as such. If I block her, she will know that I know she made a new profile. I am sure she will still stalk me once in a while, as she admitted to doing so, last time I spoke with her.

So I am afraid it will send a strong message to block her. In fact blocking her would send a message and be like breaking NC, as opposed to just ignoring her.

I am not afraid of being triggered, because I doubt she will post anything that would be publicly viewable. Also, I am not worried about her trying to contact me. It was just my birthday some few days ago, and that would have been an opportunity for her. Also, she didn't initiate contact in any way for 1 1/2 year. I made it VERY clear for her never to contact me again, last time she texted me (xmas 2013).


What worries me is this:

- I apparently still want to recycle after 2 years! (Refer to the numerous "will it never end" threads, it apparently doesn't).

- What causes the knot in my stomach, is the though of me initiating contact and her still rejecting me.


I am sure the knot would disappear again if I make a firm decision, not to contact her. The knot can best be described as a feeling of excitement, fear and worry. If I don't contact her, there is nothing to fear or worry about. But also nothing to be excited about. I am sure everyone know the duality in these situations.

[Mr Hollande]

The knot can best be described as a feeling of excitement, fear and worry.

I know The Knot. We have met a few times over the last year.

I understand the thinking behind not giving her the acknowledgement of a block. If you are strong enough, and being 18 months NC it would appear that you are, let her snoop on your awesome life and if she makes contact THEN block her without a word. I did that with mine in December and she's been quiet since. It worked for me at least.

[Infared]

Yes... .I would let sleeping dogs lie if you have the strength not to look at her info.

I am not a facebook user,  so I do not understand exactly how facebook workS, although I know it causes tons of drama and pain for people enduring these breakups. Can you tell me how you came to find out that she had made a new profile with her name spelled backwards?

[Infared]

Yes... .I would let sleeping dogs lie if you have the strength not to look at her info.

I am not a facebook user,  so I do not understand exactly how facebook workS, although I know it causes tons of drama and pain for people enduring these breakups. Can you tell me how you came to find out that she had made a new profile with her name spelled backwards?

Oh... oh... I see... because friends of your page friended her... .

Pardon my slowness. LOL!

[GuiltHaunted]

let her snoop on your awesome life and if she makes contact THEN block her without a word.

Yes... .I would let sleeping dogs lie

Herein lies the problem. I apparently do still want contact with her. Otherwise I wouldn't even have considered breaking NC. And I wouldn't feel the fear or worry about being rejected.

[mitatsu]

Are you mistaking contact for closure?

Be strong you have done so well but if you do break contact we'll be here for you if you struggle 

[GuiltHaunted]

Good point Mitatsu... .maybe.

Hence, if she rejected me, I still wouldn't have closure. Hence, the fear. And on the other hand the wishful thinking, that contact would lead to sitting down over a coffee having a sensible adult conversation that would make sense of it all.

I was in these considerations before, about a year ago, when there was something else going on. Since then I didn't seriously think about breaking NC. I probably won't this time either, if tomorrow her birthday passes quickly.

If only she would get married and have a child... .Then all these considerations would be over.  

[Infared]

Good point Mitatsu... .maybe.

Hence, if she rejected me, I still wouldn't have closure. Hence, the fear. And on the other hand the wishful thinking, that contact would lead to sitting down over a coffee having a sensible adult conversation that would make sense of it all.

I was in these considerations before, about a year ago, when there was something else going on. Since then I didn't seriously think about breaking NC. I probably won't this time either, if tomorrow her birthday passes quickly.

If only she would get married and have a child... .Then all these considerations would be over.  

Don't count on that... .mine got married to new supply... .I am pretty sure... .and she still attempts to accidentally run into me in stores and such if she is alone. Of course, she would never think to pick up the phone or send me a letter (like an adult), if she REALLY. Has something to say to me... .it is all about the rush of adrenaline and drama if she happens to see me out somewhere?   Not healthy.

They are very unpredictable and all a little different... .

I know how you feel... .but mine was incapable of giving me closure... .if a person does nothing but tell lies and spin webs that really is not possible... .

[Mister Brightside]

And on the other hand the wishful thinking, that contact would lead to sitting down over a coffee having a sensible adult conversation that would make sense of it all.

Wishful thinking indeed, my friend. Everyone here can tell you, including your own mind when not focused on her idealized self, that BPDs are incapable of introspection. She'll either act as if nothing happened in the past, blame someone else such as you, or have some type of pitiful excuse. If by chance she did take any blame, it would be to get something out of you, not because of genuine remorse.

I know you know all this, but it's just a reminder that no contact is your only healthy option.

[cosmonaut]

What worries me is this:

- I apparently still want to recycle after 2 years! (Refer to the numerous "will it never end" threads, it apparently doesn't).

- What causes the knot in my stomach, is the though of me initiating contact and her still rejecting me.


I am sure the knot would disappear again if I make a firm decision, not to contact her. The knot can best be described as a feeling of excitement, fear and worry. If I don't contact her, there is nothing to fear or worry about. But also nothing to be excited about. I am sure everyone know the duality in these situations.

I think everyone takes things at their own pace and every relationship is different.  Some partners are more toxic than others and that also plays a significant role, besides our own inner self.  I think when a partner is less toxic, there may be more of a desire to reconnect since there isn't the reminder of all of the awful abuse like some other members experienced.  So, don't be upset with yourself that you still have lingering feelings for your ex and that you are still attached to some degree.  Everyone deals with this differently, and that's ok.  We are all unique.

What we are experiencing is deeply unnatural.  We aren't supposed to lose a love as intense as what we had.  Love is supposed to bind two people together, and it is very strange when love is what tears two people apart.  Our very bodies are wired to respond to love and powerful biochemical pathways are activated to reinforce that bond.  We form a deep primary, emotional bond with someone, and when it is broken we are left with profound grief.  That takes a long time to heal.  Indeed, it may never fully heal.  Many people that have children or spouses that die, never really fully lose that lingering loss.  That's perfectly natural, and what we have experienced is not far from it.  Our loss is real and we are experiencing genuine grief.  If there is trauma involved, and there often is in these relationships, then there are even further complications to resolve.  So, don't be hard on yourself, GH.  You are not alone - I am still feeling all of the things you are and I am out a year out myself.  This is a process not an event as my T tells me.  It will not be over in day.

[Mister Brightside]

I think everyone takes things at their own pace and every relationship is different.  Some partners are more toxic than others and that also plays a significant role, besides our own inner self.  I think when a partner is less toxic, there may be more of a desire to reconnect since there isn't the reminder of all of the awful abuse like some other members experienced. 

I'll add to this in that even those who experienced horrific toxicity in their relationship are prone to long for contact with the abuser. Trauma bonds are intense. Sometimes we get comfortable/addicted in the drama that such an unhealthy relationship brings (healthy relationships are foreign to some of us and therefore we stick with what we're used to). Or sometimes we have a history of similar relationships and don't want to let go of the relationship in hopes of making things better to reconcile our "failure" of getting similar relationships to work in the past.

And even if none of the above is true for a particular person, remembering the idealization stage and wishing for that person to come back, is quite powerful in itself, no matter how bad the devalue and discard stage was. Separating the idealization and devaluation stages can be so confusing and heartbreaking. It's as if we knew two totally different people, and we long so much for the first one to come back. But deep down we know that isn't going to happen since no healthy person would worship someone they barely know yet.

[Infared]

And on the other hand the wishful thinking, that contact would lead to sitting down over a coffee having a sensible adult conversation that would make sense of it all.

Wishful thinking indeed, my friend. Everyone here can tell you, including your own mind when not focused on her idealized self, that BPDs are incapable of introspection. She'll either act as if nothing happened in the past, blame someone else such as you, or have some type of pitiful excuse. If by chance she did take any blame, it would be to get something out of you, not because of genuine remorse.

I know you know all this, but it's just a reminder that no contact is your only healthy option.

You forgot about another possibility... .she will actually rewrite history ... . Mine started doing that ... .and there is just no way to even converse with someone who is doing that... .I think that they know it... .of course ... .the rewriting is always in a way that you are to blame or that you did things wrong... . I was totally caught off guard when she started doing this the first time... .and it did make NC a lot easier... .um... there is no point in having a conversation with that going on... .and it is quite dumbfounding.  Mental illness or crafty control... .I was never sure.

[Infared]

What worries me is this:

- I apparently still want to recycle after 2 years! (Refer to the numerous "will it never end" threads, it apparently doesn't).

- What causes the knot in my stomach, is the though of me initiating contact and her still rejecting me.


I am sure the knot would disappear again if I make a firm decision, not to contact her. The knot can best be described as a feeling of excitement, fear and worry. If I don't contact her, there is nothing to fear or worry about. But also nothing to be excited about. I am sure everyone know the duality in these situations.

I think everyone takes things at their own pace and every relationship is different.  Some partners are more toxic than others and that also plays a significant role, besides our own inner self.  I think when a partner is less toxic, there may be more of a desire to reconnect since there isn't the reminder of all of the awful abuse like some other members experienced.  So, don't be upset with yourself that you still have lingering feelings for your ex and that you are still attached to some degree.  Everyone deals with this differently, and that's ok.  We are all unique.

What we are experiencing is deeply unnatural.  We aren't supposed to lose a love as intense as what we had.  Love is supposed to bind two people together, and it is very strange when love is what tears two people apart.  Our very bodies are wired to respond to love and powerful biochemical pathways are activated to reinforce that bond.  We form a deep primary, emotional bond with someone, and when it is broken we are left with profound grief.  That takes a long time to heal.  Indeed, it may never fully heal.  Many people that have children or spouses that die, never really fully lose that lingering loss.  That's perfectly natural, and what we have experienced is not far from it.  Our loss is real and we are experiencing genuine grief.  If there is trauma involved, and there often is in these relationships, then there are even further complications to resolve.  So, don't be hard on yourself, GH.  You are not alone - I am still feeling all of the things you are and I am out a year out myself.  This is a process not an event as my T tells me.  It will not be over in day.

I actually think, in my case, that if she had died (I am not wishing that) it would have been less painful... .than to have her lie, be off with new supply in an instant and choosing to discard me.  Death takes you... you do not make that choice.  This was much worse in the pain dept... .for me.

[Mister Brightside]

And on the other hand the wishful thinking, that contact would lead to sitting down over a coffee having a sensible adult conversation that would make sense of it all.

Wishful thinking indeed, my friend. Everyone here can tell you, including your own mind when not focused on her idealized self, that BPDs are incapable of introspection. She'll either act as if nothing happened in the past, blame someone else such as you, or have some type of pitiful excuse. If by chance she did take any blame, it would be to get something out of you, not because of genuine remorse.

I know you know all this, but it's just a reminder that no contact is your only healthy option.

You forgot about another possibility... .she will actually rewrite history ... . Mine started doing that ... .and there is just no way to even converse with someone who is doing that... .I think that they know it... .of course ... .the rewriting is always in a way that you are to blame or that you did things wrong... . I was totally caught off guard when she started doing this the first time... .and it did make NC a lot easier... .um... there is no point in having a conversation with that going on... .and it is quite dumbfounding.  Mental illness or crafty control... .I was never sure.

Indeed, infrared. I don't think I ever dealt with that, but I can certainly see the possibility of it happening. But for minds like ours (and most people who aren't personality disordered), we want to be genuine and aren't aware of these types of games until we actually face them or read about them. Perhaps I used some of these games when I was young to avoid being held responsible, but I grew out of those habits when I grew up. We really are dealing with adult children.

[cosmonaut]

I'll add to this in that even those who experienced horrific toxicity in their relationship are prone to long for contact with the abuser. Trauma bonds are intense. Sometimes we get comfortable/addicted in the drama that such an unhealthy relationship brings (healthy relationships are foreign to some of us and therefore we stick with what we're used to). Or sometimes we have a history of similar relationships and don't want to let go of the relationship in hopes of making things better to reconcile our "failure" of getting similar relationships to work in the past.

And even if none of the above is true for a particular person, remembering the idealization stage and wishing for that person to come back, is quite powerful in itself, no matter how bad the devalue and discard stage was. Separating the idealization and devaluation stages can be so confusing and heartbreaking. It's as if we knew two totally different people, and we long so much for the first one to come back. But deep down we know that isn't going to happen since no healthy person would worship someone they barely know yet.

Those are really good points, Mr. Brightside.  I think you are absolutely right.  Even very toxic relationships can form very intense bonds.   

I actually think, in my case, that if she had died (I am not wishing that) it would have been less painful... .than to have her lie, be off with new supply in an instant and choosing to discard me.  Death takes you... you do not make that choice.  This was much worse in the pain dept... .for me.

Yeah, I can totally understand that.  Having so much rejection involved on top of our loss, does add so much extra weight to our grief.  Then, the fact that our exes are still alive leaves the door open to this lingering hope that perhaps somehow, some way we could work things out and live happily ever after.  With death, it is final, and there is no going back.  We can only hope to see them again in the life to come.

[Mutt]

If only she would get married and have a child... .Then all these considerations would be over.  

It sounds like your waiting for circumstances that make it incredibly difficult. Have you thought about telling yourself there's no chance of reconciliation to help you heal?

[GuiltHaunted]

Thank you all for the support. I do go very easy on myself, and I do not blame myself for wanting to reconnect. Also, I completely agree with the analogy of a parent losing a child, and realise it may never completely end (fade yes).

It sounds like your waiting for circumstances that make it incredibly difficult. Have you thought about telling yourself there's no chance of reconciliation to help you heal?

More exact, I would be waiting for circumstances where I would not want to reconnect.

Telling myself, at the moment, that there is no chance would not be truthful. Atleast, I can't be sure since I am in NC. It could be that she would like to reconciliate and I think this uncertainty is what keeps me thinking of her.

SO, I think I will write her tomorrow and see... .

I see NC as a tool, and I am pretty far with my healing. 2 years is a pretty long time and I fell in love with other girls along the way, and had shorter affairs too. Got disappointed and moved on more than once. I think I'm strong enough to take whatever she throws at me. And if she rejects me, I think I can move on quickly from that disappointment too.

Maybe this is just what I need to finally move on for good?

Being rejected might be what would remove the hope of reconciliation?

Thoughts?

Worst thing that can happen is that she is friendly and nice, but avoid any real conversation. This is how she behaved in the end and led up to me asking her not to contact me again. It made me very confused, because I never knew what she wanted from me. In which case I still won't know and might have to initiate NC again.

[GuiltHaunted]

As for where it would go, if indeed she is open for discussion or even reconciliation, I am not so worried about that.

There was no cheating etc. during the r/s, no history that needs to be rewritten. I acknowledge my failings in the r/s, particularly never taking her psychological issues serious. (Obviously, I would put it in other words in a talk with her).

[Mutt]

It could be that she would like to reconciliate and I think this uncertainty is what keeps me thinking of her.

My ex rejected me and it's been over two years.

She may want reconciliation tomorrow, several months and several years from now.

I made the choice some time ago ( 2 years ago ) that I don't want reconciliation because our values don't match.

She may ask and I choose no reconciliation because I have my own needs. She wants someone to take care of her and tend to her needs and forgo my own.

There are other boards that you can participate in if you're not done; staying or undecided.

[Suzn]

Does this belief still hold true to you as it did over a year ago?

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

We often feel that if we explain our point better, put it in writing, say it louder, or find the right words ... .we will be heard.

People with BPD hear and read just fine. Everything that we have said has been physically heard. The issue is more about listening and engaging.

When the relationship breaks down and emotions are flared, the ability to listen and engage diminishes greatly on all sides.

And if we try to compensate by being more insistent it often just drives the interaction further into unhealthy territory. We may be seen as aggressive. We may be seen as weak and clingy. We may be seen as having poor boundaries and inviting selfish treatment. We may be offering ourselves up for punishment. It may be denial, it may be the inability to get past what they feel and want to say, or it may even be payback.

This is one of the most difficult aspects of breaking up - there is no closure.

[cosmonaut]

Maybe you need to reach out and see what happens.  I can certainly understand that.  If she is receptive, then you can see where that goes.  And if she isn't, then that tells you something too.

Just be honest with yourself about what your risks are and what potential outcomes could mean for your health.  I'm not discouraging you necessarily; just be completely honest with yourself about how you would act is she doesn't respond.  Or if she says she's in a relationship.  Or she says to never contact her again.  Those might not happen, but they also might.  Contacting her is not something to do without consideration.

I wish you the very best no matter which way you decide.  Let us know what happens.  We're here no matter what, and like Mutt said if you end up switching boards that's fine too.

[GuiltHaunted]

Mutt, I commend you for making that decision! In the 2 years since the breakup, I haven't been able to do so. I still consider her a possibility.

Suzn, no I would say I am past that. There will be no bargaining with her. If she doesn't want to have contact with me, it's fine and I will move on. If she does, I don't feel there are unresolved issues (on my part at least), that needs to be dealt with.

In short, I have nothing to "say louder". I just want to say "hello" and see where it goes. Just as cosmonaut says.

cosmonaut, I am most worried about her being overly friendly without stating her intentions. That was painful last time. However, that was 1 1/2 years ago. Maybe I am now strong enough, to realise that it is the same as no interest as well. I guess if she is interested in the communication (more than just superficially) and she is being friendly, she WILL state her intentions.

[Suzn]

I see that she made a new profile because mutual friends, just became friends with her. It's obvious, because it's her name spelled backwards.

I'm confused. Can you help me understand how this is an attempt to contact you?

No judgement on wanting to contact her however if you are expecting her to show you intent then shouldn't there be evidence of an intent?

[cosmonaut]

cosmonaut, I am most worried about her being overly friendly without stating her intentions. That was painful last time. However, that was 1 1/2 years ago. Maybe I am now strong enough, to realise that it is the same as no interest as well. I guess if she is interested in the communication (more than just superficially) and she is being friendly, she WILL state her intentions.

So, you are worried that she will give you mixed signals?  I think that's fairly common with BPD.  How do you think you would handle that?  Do you think you could be able to take a wait and see approach if she seems receptive?  Try not to leap to any conclusions or read into anything?

[talithacumi]

Sadly, I think closure is one of the many things you have to learn to provide for yourself. It doesn't come from someone outside telling you why they don't want to give you what you need/want anymore. It comes from someplace deep inside telling you don't really need/want whatever it is they had/still have to offer anymore.

It's easier for a lot of us to just keep doing what we've always done, and let other people dictate the kind of relationships they'll have with us. I operated this way for years out of the very deep, but very false belief that I simply wasn't good enough - not smart enough, capable enough, trustworthy/reliable/objective enough - to decide what was right/fair when it came to the way other people treated me. If I didn't like it, the best I could hope for was to be told WHY I deserved to be treated as badly as I'd been ... .or, in the case of my uxpwBPD, why I'd been so suddenly and unceremoniously dumped when he got caught lying to/cheating on me after 12+ years of telling me how much he loved, cared about, and would never even consider being with anyone else as long as he lived.

I spent two solid years asking my ex that question, hoping I get some kind of answer that made any kind of real sense to me. All I ever got was more crazy. More crazy from him. More crazy inside me. More lies. More history rewritten. More accusations and blame. More contradictions. More confusion. More frustration. And more and more and more things that cut so deep there were times I simply wanted to die rather than be forced to endure yet another onslaught of the pain.

I went NC to stop the bleeding, and started actively looking for someone else to help me find closure - tell me why I deserved to be treated this way. The therapist I found helped me shift focus away from needing to know why I deserved to be treated this way, to wanting to know why I felt there was a reason to treat me this way at all.

There wasn't, of course. I didn't deserve to be treated the way I was by my ex. I was treated that way because he's disordered and that's how he deals with the fear he constantly feels - whether it's the fear of being rejected/abandoned himself - or the fear of being engulfed/losing what little sense of himself he actually has altogether.

It's taken me a very long time to see myself as someone who fundamentally deserves to be treated with kindness, respect, consideration, and concern for both my physical, as well as emotional well-being.

My ex cannot do that. He cannot do that BECAUSE he's disordered. There have been plenty of times over the course of the last 4+ years when he's been triggered for some reason, flipped, painted me white again, and made it clear he'd at least be open to the idea of the two of us being together again. At this point, all this ever really does is demonstrate just HOW disordered he still is, and how incapable he therefore still is of treating me in any other way than the way he always has.

That's no longer acceptable to me. That's no longer something I need/want in a relationship. That's where I found closure.

I am sorry you are going through this - having these kinds of thoughts. I hope you will at least consider looking somewhere other than to your ex for the answers and emotional closure you seek because she's disordered, and I really don't think she has it to give.

[Mutt]

I think pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

I think pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

That observation would make for a great t-shirt!

PAIN is inevitable

SUFFERING is optional