Borderlines stabilizing as they get older? Is this only if they get treatment?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've read that pwBPD stabilize as they get older. Does this only apply to those who are diagnosed and seeking help? Or does this happen naturally? For reference, my pwBPD has a family of origin which is full of enablers who think he can do no wrong and all have cluster b traits. He is in this environment (in his parents house) at least 5 out of 7 days of the week. I'm just curious as to whether his BPD traits will die down if this is the dynamic he is often exposed to, and if he also does not seek help or see anything wrong with himself.

[confusedwoman]

I've read that pwBPD stabilize as they get older. Does this only apply to those who are diagnosed and seeking help? Or does this happen naturally? For reference, my pwBPD has a family of origin which is full of enablers who think he can do no wrong and all have cluster b traits. He is in this environment (in his parents house) at least 5 out of 7 days of the week. I'm just curious as to whether his BPD traits will die down if this is the dynamic he is often exposed to, and if he also does not seek help or see anything wrong with himself.

[letmeout]

Some of them mellow out as they age, some of them keep getting worse. I had the unfortunate experience that mine kept getting worse, and from what I have heard, he is still getting worse. Its a shame, but there is no way to fix it.

[Sunfl0wer]

I had a therapist tell me this.  That usually they mellow out after 30's-40's.  She did not mean due to therapy but something natural, idk what though, hormonal drops or something?

[ShadowIntheNight]

I had a therapist tell me this.  That usually they mellow out after 30's-40's.  She did not mean due to therapy but something natural, idk what though, hormonal drops or something?

My uBPDexgf and I were together 9.5 yrs. The first 6 yrs together (her aged 36 -42) she never exhibited what I would call BPD traits. It wasn't until after she took a new job and started getting accolades that her ego grew and she became "different." She just ended our relationship out of nowhere last August. She was about to turn 46. Had she exhibited any of the behaviors she had in the first year of our relationship we wouldn't have made it to 9.5 yrs. That woman I knew at the end was not the woman I met. Blame hormones, blame stress, but she definitely got worse over time, no mellowing at all.

[raisins3142]

My mother is cluster b, and she has settled down but still shows traits.

I think this mellowing might be learning to shut the heck up and internalize more.  As someone pointed out above in a way, by 40 they've probably been told by intelligent people to "STFU!" like 1,000 times.  That's bound to at least create a Pavlovian response.

Perhaps they all become quiet/waif/cat lady types but if you removed some bad memories and gave them their 20 year old body/face back they'd be back at it in full bloom.

[Hope0807]

Very well said.  My mother is in her 60s and on her deathbed.  We are having conversations I've been waiting my whole life to have…BUT every once in a blue moon, someone will walk in the room or her face will change over a topic, she'll say something awful, and I will see the traits, clear as day, and think to myself, "wow, if you were younger and healthier, you'd be exactly as you always were…wickedly weird"

My mother is cluster b, and she has settled down but still shows traits.

I think this mellowing might be learning to shut the heck up and internalize more.  As someone pointed out above in a way, by 40 they've probably been told by intelligent people to "STFU!" like 1,000 times.  That's bound to at least create a Pavlovian response.

Perhaps they all become quiet/waif/cat lady types but if you removed some bad memories and gave them their 20 year old body/face back they'd be back at it in full bloom.

[zundertowz]

I think lower hormones may mellow thew out a bit but I guess it matters how bad they were in the first place.  Most of the stuff I read on "burnout" was from the 90s.

[OlderOne]

My experience has been that they may mellow a little but, if very self-centered, they can cause tremendous problems even late (60ish) in life. I believe there is a strong possibility they will be alone, except for a pet, even the pet needs to be protected.

[Tim300]

Thanks for asking the question.  It seems like this might make a "top 10" topic listing here if there was one.  I think there are a couple prominent blog postings on the Internet that assert this belief that "BPD mellows out over time."  I know I've responded more thoroughly to earlier threads about this, so I'll try to keep this brief here.  Based on my personal experience in dealing with my BPDex-financee and her mother (also a pwBPD), and having read volumes and volumes about BPD, and using some logic about the disorder, I absolutely do not believe that BPD mellows out over time.  Perhaps as people get older it is generally more difficult to attract mates who would like to be in intense intimate relationships -- so this natural course could help minimize some of the BPD symptoms.  However, counterbalancing this is a lifetime of BPD trauma build up, which seems to make the pwBPD generally nastier, more bitter, more distrustful, and more confused by the "non world" that surrounds her.  The pwBPD is likely to find new targets for lashing out against -- like a receptionist at a dental office, a 16-year-old waitress, a random driver on the road.  Also, fears of abandonment might be just as strong as ever, with the pwBPD trying to desperately cling on to an adult child and not let him/her out of grasp.

Any studies that have been cited to support the assertion that "BPD mellows out over time" can unfortunately be dismissed quickly due to methodological shortcomings.  Just exactly how does one measure the magnitude of BPD symptoms (like, for example, whether the pwBPD has a tendency to paint others as black and white)?  How do you identify a random sample of people with BPD to observe (including those who self identify with having BPD, those who know about the concept of BPD but deny having it, and those who have BPD but are unaware of what BPD is and are not on anyone's radar as having BPD).

I think the assertion that "BPD mellows out over time" is nothing more than a product of wishful thinking.  And it seems like if you read all of the threads on this, they generally come to this same conclusion.  I am all ears to hear otherwise (this is just out of curiosity though, as I have no intention of re-engaging my BPDex-fiancee).  

[ogopogodude]

Here is ogopogodude's take on this concept of "stabilizing" or "mellowing" of a BPD's behaviour overtime:

We all get tired.  Oh, so very tired as we get older.

I used to jog in my early 40's. I don't anymore. Why? ... .I'm tired.

A BPD gets tired.  The fight that they want to start and perpetuate simply takes far too much effort, as opposed to when they were younger.

And that is all I  have to say about that (Forest Gump).

[Katy-Did]

Whether the individual with BPD mellows with age or not, I wonder if their basic impulse remains.  My BPDh is well into his 60's and although he has "mellowed" and sought treatment, his "triggers" are the same "triggers" from 40 years ago. 

[Hope0807]

Believing that my ex may mellow out makes me sad.  I don't want someone to get the best of what he showed me.  I want other people to see the truly awful person he is.  My ex is dangerous.

[confusedwoman]

Believing that my ex may mellow out makes me sad.  I don't want someone to get the best of what he showed me.  I want other people to see the truly awful person he is.  My ex is dangerous.

That's exactly why I was wondering about this. And obviously, for the sake of pwBPD and all those they effect. I don't think we really have to worry about that happening, though. It seems unlikely.

CW

[zundertowz]

My guess would be the older they get the less options they will have so they may behave... .I doubt it ever stops being about them.

[Heldfast]

It really depends on each individual, but for the most part, they do not appear to do well with age, particularly if they have narcissistic tendencies as well. Don't think it all evens out for them. Some do well, it appears that most do not. Borderlines tend to become reclusive and avoid relationships, narcissists become victims of their inner demons once the attention supply runs out. Do not envy these people, they do not get better, as that involves admitting your mistakes and growing. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201401/what-happens-when-narcissists-turn-30-and-beyond   https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me/201308/the-borderline-grows-older-0

[Vatz]

They say sociopaths taper off after about 50 or so but you still don't want to be anywhere near them either way.

The details aren't identical but the point is about the same.

Also, less options but the ones they do snag will still be in for a world of hurt. There's a member on here that I remember who said he was married decades to his BPD and suffered immensely.

So there's that.

[Hope0807]

Thank you for this!  I'm clawing my way back to personal strength.  I want to be stronger than my former self when someone finally comes knocking at my door for all the evidence I have of his evil…and if they never come knocking, I want to be so strong that I don't even notice.

It really depends on each individual, but for the most part, they do not appear to do well with age, particularly if they have narcissistic tendencies as well. Don't think it all evens out for them. Some do well, it appears that most do not. Borderlines tend to become reclusive and avoid relationships, narcissists become victims of their inner demons once the attention supply runs out. Do not envy these people, they do not get better, as that involves admitting your mistakes and growing. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201401/what-happens-when-narcissists-turn-30-and-beyond   https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me/201308/the-borderline-grows-older-0

[Loosestrife]

I asked a P and was told women can mellow post menopause but by that time their brains are rubbished by drugs. Men also get more aggressive as they move through different drug regimes as drugs become ineffective over time.

[raisins3142]

Besides the other methodological problems pointed out, any study on this will be unsound unless it follows individuals over time and takes into account drop outs from the study and why (leaving the study might be seen as worsening of BPD, etc).

The reason I'm thinking this is because the really bad cases as time goes on are more likely to have ended their life either intentionally or by poor lifestyle or fallen off the grid and not in a position to be studied.

So, I would fully expect that a sample of 100 20-something BPDs and another 100 in their 60s would show that the 60 year olds are higher functioning simply because they made it that far in life and could answer a phone.  Fast forward 40 years, and the wilder 20 year old BPDs might not be so lucky.

A common, quick trick to publish is simply to sample various ages at a single snapshot and think that it gives similar answers to following a cohort.  In many cases it won't.

[Maternus]

Do they mellow? I don't know what my father is, he has traits of BPD, HPD, NPD and ASPD... .he is definitely a Cluster-B-Personality. And yes, he seems to be more stable while he ages. Everybody in my family says "He has changed, he regrets what he has done in the past." No, he did not change, he just got more subtle with his lies and manipulations. His façade changed, but behind this façade he is as toxic as he ever was - maybe even more toxic, because his new mask looks more vulnerable and honest. He charmed me back into his life twice in the last five years, made commitments I relied on and dropped me in an instant. No, they don't change. They just change their masks.

[Tim300]

Do they mellow? I don't know what my father is, he has traits of BPD, HPD, NPD and ASPD... .he is definitely a Cluster-B-Personality. And yes, he seems to be more stable while he ages. Everybody in my family says "He has changed, he regrets what he has done in the past." No, he did not change, he just got more subtle with his lies and manipulations. His façade changed, but behind this façade he is as toxic as he ever was - maybe even more toxic, because his new mask looks more vulnerable and honest. He charmed me back into his life twice in the last five years, made commitments I relied on and dropped me in an instant. No, they don't change. They just change their masks.

Yeah, they probably just become more skilled in their con tactics -- quite frightening really.     

[wanttoknowmore]

pwBPD certainly change as they age. Firstly, they become less and less impulsive and do not run to alcohol, drugs or a random guy sex. Also, as they age, realization sets up that there is a lot wrong they did to mess up their relationships so they at least try harder to avoid blow up. Rage becomes less intense but now, they are more likely to withdraw and dissociate... .want to hide.  The fear of abandonment is a core symptom which does not decrease with age.

Those with financial resources, in therapy or with a kind, caring long term friend/partner do better than  once with less financial and social resources and therapy teaches them skills to detect and avoid episodes and realize their part in conflicts earlier.

I do not agree with the blanket  statement that all pwBPD get worse with age. Yes, they do get more depressed with age due to multiple mess ups and failures.

[Hopeless777]

Don't count on it. My dBPDw got worse every year. I stayed for the kids. After 25 years it was unbearable. At year 29 I'm gone. Combine BPD and hormonal changes and you have quite the poison cocktail. I refuse to drink any more.

[Tim300]

I do not agree with the blanket  statement that all pwBPD get worse with age.

I wouldn't agree with this blanket statement either and I don't think such a statement has been made here.  I think it will vary for each person with BPD and some will get better in some ways and some will get worse in some ways.  Some might get worse in almost all ways, and who knows, perhaps some might get slightly better in almost all ways.  But in any event, the BPD in the brain will always be there, either on the surface or simmering just below the surface.  The articles that suggest that BPD tends to mellow out over time are, in my opinion, irresponsible and a disservice; well intentioned I'm sure, but unfortunately not accurate.

[despr8]

here's my experience with BPD ... .my wife has it and my mother-in-law has it and she truly got worst as the years progressed so some people may be different but she never got better just worst and my wife's symptoms seem to be getting worst also... .mostly off the wall stuff like never staying on topic and forgetting where she places things within minutes... .I hope this help in some way Thanks, despr8

[raisins3142]

When they are actively getting supply (attention, validation, attachment) then it seems they are more placid as their needs feel met.

This would obviously be easier to do when younger

I can see that some emotional maturity/repression might happen with age.

So, possibly you have the 2 things working against each other.

Or they get used to less supply and start giving up on that game.

Interesting and I think it is a different story for each.

It makes me think of drunk 70 year olds at a bar acting rowdy and wearing age inappropriate hair/makeup/clothes.

[ShadowIntheNight]

I don't know for sure that my ex's parents aren't BPD, BUT if they are, my ex's father has a live in gf of many years who he rages at continually. He is in his 70s. He berates her and her kids and would guilt my ex all of the time about not seeing him. She lives 2.5 hours from him. As for her mother. She is 69 or 70 this year and she dresses like she is 35. She wears short-shorts and low cut tops. She's an attractive woman, but she is almost 70. She too berates and guilts my ex quite frequently. So if they're BPD, I don't know, but if they are, it's clear that their behavior hasn't eased over the 10 years I knew them.

[zundertowz]

It makes me think of drunk 70 year olds at a bar acting rowdy and wearing age inappropriate hair/makeup/clothes.

This cracked me up!  I could totally see my ex being the old bar hag who was once gorgeous and now a lush.  Shes 35 and still hanging out in town bars picking up guys, there is easy prey there.  I don't know weather to laugh or cry.

[ShadowIntheNight]

It makes me think of drunk 70 year olds at a bar acting rowdy and wearing age inappropriate hair/makeup/clothes.

This cracked me up!  I could totally see my ex being the old bar hag who was once gorgeous and now a lush.  Shes 35 and still hanging out in town bars picking up guys, there is easy prey there.  I don't know weather to laugh or cry.

Well her mother isn't anything remotely close to being an old bar hag. She's very attractive, and quite involved with her church. And I'm very sure she doesn't pick up guys at bars or anything like that. But short shirts on someone who is near 70 is a bit much to me.

[OlderOne]

I now believe that once you have escaped the clutches of a BPD you should never seriously consider going back, even if there are children involved. I believe they are absolutely mentally ill and have moments of "clarity of mind". They have a complicated "unstable" mental state that would make raising a family with them a living hell. My knowledge of this mental illness is gained through personal experience and wanting to educate myself about it. This is the only conclusion I could come to. I'm sad I couldn't really make a difference in his life.