Many of the pwBPD are not BPD at all.

[Maternus]

Many of the pwBPD we are talking about are undiagnosed pwBPD. How many of them really are borderliners? How many of them are malignant narcissists or a pwASPD, how many of them are psychopaths or sociopaths? All we can see from our relationships is a pattern, and this pattern is the typical cluster-b-pattern. And there are a lot of stories about high-functional pwBPD or another clluster-b disorder on this board. And a high functional pwBPD, HPD, NPD and ASPD doesn't want to be cured. They don't think that anything is wrong with them. They are not suffering from their disorder, they make other people suffer. They don't think they're crazy, but they make other people feel crazy. They make us crazy.

[Beach_Babe]

mine is a malignant narcissist im fairly sure of it.

[Invictus01]

Many of the pwBPD we are talking about are undiagnosed pwBPD. How many of them really are borderliners? How many of them are malignant narcissists or a pwASPD, how many of them are psychopaths or sociopaths? All we can see from our relationships is a pattern, and this pattern is the typical cluster-b-pattern. And there are a lot of stories about high-functional pwBPD or another clluster-b disorder on this board. And a high functional pwBPD, HPD, NPD and ASPD doesn't want to be cured. They don't think that anything is wrong with them. They are not suffering from their disorder, they make other people suffer. They don't think they're crazy, but they make other people feel crazy. They make us crazy.

I would say that is correct. In many cases, BPD is a gentler version of dressing up some other Cluster B disorder. I don't know if they don't suffer at all but I would say the more high functioning they are, the less frequent those episodes are. I've only seen my high functioning BPD/NPD ex legitimately have one moment of weakness when she told me "my whole life hurts". I had no idea what that was all about but I think now I understand. Other than that - even psychologists themselves admit that the vast majority of Cluster B disordered people will never submit for an evaluation.

[wanttoknowmore]

Thou shalt not diagnose... . And thou shalt not diagnose AT ALL... . while angry.

[raisins3142]

Mine was mid-level functioning.  I know she had had a LOT of pain in her life and was genuinely perplexed or powerless over somethings.

[Skip]

Many of the pwBPD we are talking about are:

undiagnosed pwBPD

malignant narcissists

pwASPD, psychopaths, sociopaths?

Maternus, I agree that many of the partners here have traits of disorders like BPD, BiPolar, OCD, ADHD, Addictions and other impulse disorders.  Some have concurrent NPD or HPD. A small percentage are diagnosed / diagnosable.

I think, as you point out, a partner doesn't have to be a raging BPD/NPD/ASPD to be hurtful - in fact, the most ill tend to be the lessor threats.  Just light BPD traits and a partner (us) with high validation needs can make for a very damaging relationship.

I've been doing this a long time and I think the most common thread here is impulse disorders (living in the day) and emotionally volatile (both the good part and the bad part).

Do we have a lot of exs that were malignant narcissists, pwASPD, psychopaths, sociopaths?

I don't think so.  This is popular Internet wave - find the worst sounding label and paste it on your ex.  It's popular but not really well informed. "Malignant narcissists, pwASPD, psychopaths, sociopaths" are a different breed to what we read about here for the most part.  Not saying that there are not a few green apples in the apple sauce - just that it's rare.

The problem with all this Internet "Malignant narcissists, pwASPD, psychopaths, sociopaths" trend is that it breeds blaming rather than learning.  We all don't want the pain that we are feeling and we sometime gravitate to anything we can use to shift it onto.

We see this clearly when our borderline partners do it - we often don't see it in ourselves.

Physiologically - evolutionarily - there is a reason we hurt so bad after a bad relationship.  It's something that drives us to want to avoid a repeat of the pain.

The question we have to ask ourselves is what is the smartest way to avoid that pain.

For me, knowing that 28% of the population is mentally ill or addicted, I want to know about these disorders an how to thrive in a world with them in my Church, community, office, etc.

I want to learn the reality of  these mental illnesses and how to manage relationships with afflicted people gracefully, safely, and without fear.  I want to know how to spot the tiny traces of dysfunction in prospective relationship partners so that I can steer away before I become emotionally attached.

These are the skills of high emotional intelligence.

The labeling and name calling game are the hallmark of low emotional intelligence.

I'm not concerned whether a person with BPD is going to make a choice to be a better or healthier person. We're past that relationship.

I'm concerned if I will make a choice to be a better healthier person.  And if you will.  How many of US will?

That's why we're here.  Right?

[eyvindr]

Good post, Skip -- thank you. Well said.

[downwhim]

trying to learn how to be emotionally solid and free to make better choices the next time around. I find that the more I dwell on his disorder the less I focus on me and my issues. I chose to be with someone that criticized me and devalued me. Now I must learn not only how to avoid another BPD but how to ground myself and continue to be a loving person.

[jhkbuzz]

This is true - none of us are professionals who are capable of diagnosing someone with a mental illness.  And BPD "behaviors" are on a spectrum - we can all exhibit BPD like behaviors on that spectrum from time to time.

One of the most helpful things I've read about is called Schema therapy.  It helped me understand my undiagnosed exgf - but it is also helping me understand myself.

"Schemas are essentially valid representations of early childhood experiences, and serve as templates for processing and defining later behaviors, thoughts, feelings and relationships with others." Therefore, we all have them, and they can be healthy or unhealthy - on a continuum. It's not "all or nothing"

Early maladaptive schemas include entrenched patterns of distorted thinking, disruptive emotions and dysfunctional behaviours. These are also on a continuum, and we can ALL have a maladaptive schema or two.  People with BPD are on the more extreme end of the scale - My ex had at least 5 maladaptive schemas - and the behaviors that arose from those schemas were destructive to our r/s.

www.schematherapy.com/

[LimboFL]

I haven't posted in a while, short of a small response today.

This has been an ongoing debate in my head since the b/u, the constant tug of war of whether I was imagining things or overreacting. Despite untold hours researching, I find myself continuing to question. However, while degrees vary, I simply cannot dismiss the overwhelming similarities that I consistently find on this board to what I and so many of us others experienced. There is absolutely no question that when looking at the end, some of us could very easily write it off as possibly the natural order of things, the natural conclusion to a relationship, but what I am as guilty of as any is not roping all of the things that led up to that ending, how much of the inevitable end was a result of the degradation of the relationship due almost exclusively to the behavior of the pwBPD.

There is no doubt that so many disorders bleed into one person but there are just too many common threads to the stories on this board for there to be any doubt that many of us did experience life with a pwBPD.

Childhood trauma

orbiters

raging

substance abuse

lack of female or meaningful friendships

Parental alienation

push pull

one foot out the door

Painted black

Love Bombing

I mean I could go on and on. It is critically hard to fight to keep the red flags up, post relationship. As I have posted before, the human mind is conditioned to purge the bad, like a mother who forgets the pain of birth and is willing to do it again. The human mind is also conditioned to believe what we see in front of us as somehow normal, just as a soldier somehow manages to endure the horrors of war and remain standing through it all.

There have been people on here who might simply have been in difficult relationships that came to a bad end but the majority of stories that I have read here on this board sound so similar that it would have to be a massive coincidence that we all ended up here.

I originally sought out bipolar as a possible candidate but what drove me here was the concept of rapid cycling. As Skip said though, most of us experienced a blend of disorders, anxiety, bipolar, ocd, narcissism, so in the end it could be that BPD is the umbrella under which we all have sought cover but one thing is for sure, even though I am trying to slow my time spent here, every time I read another story, I find something new that i thought only I had experienced and sometimes it is the silliest of things, a comment, whatever. I like to think of myself as a pretty with it and smart character. If at any point, as is what happened when I was on bipolar boards, a long time ago, if I didn't find enough commonality to almost all stories to mine, on this board, I would have left long ago.

My goal, in being here, is not to seek out anyone that will listen and empathize with my plight but rather was born of a search for people who have lived through what I have and have experienced the horrendously painful aftermath. If it isn't BPD, so be it, but damned if a lot of people I have interacted with on this board haven't experienced so damn much of what I have. If you want to call it something else, fine, ultimately the heading doesn't matter. All I know is that we have been through experiences that simply were not remotely normal. I have said before, my ex wife (who by the way also found a replacement and had some anxiety issues of her own) and I divorced after 20 years as a couple and I was not nearly as screwed up as I have been after just four years with my exBPDgf. It just ain't the same and again, when I am on this board, very rarely do I walk away not having had my jaw drop as a result of some tiny detail that someone mentioned, as a tiny spec in a much larger description of a situation.

I am way smart enough to understand the difference between simple selfish human behavior and stuff that simply IS NOT normal. Call it BPD, call it flap jacks, I don't care. At the end of the day, all I know is that many of us have gone through almost identical situations (with little shades of difference here or there or in some cases extremes that I remain grateful that I didn't have to experience, but these were simply about the degree rather than being so foreign as to not understand.) 

It just isn't possible for so many red flags to show up and they not point to something. I suspect that BPD Family has many people stop by and realize that maybe their SO's were just selfish or oblivious to the signs that their relationships were just over, who are no longer here but the rest of us stick around because there just is too much in common for us all to be wrong. One doesn't have to be a doctor to see the writing on the wall.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I do not know what the correct diagnosis, if any, applies to my ex.  But something was WAY off.  The things that happened post-b/u (stalking, threatening, etc.) were not "normal."  There is nothing he could have done or said to me to make me threaten his family.  Nothing. 

I started searching for a context that made sense.  I read a lot about sociopaths, psychopaths, con-men.  They all resonated a bit but still didn't seem right.  I don't think he was w/o feeling. 

Nevertheless, 4 months post-b/u I still felt like I had been brainwashed. So I googled "how to get unbrainwashed."  And bpdfamily came up.  The very first article I read about how these relationships evolve finally, completely resonated... . BINGO!  Right down to the details of how a pwBPD will look in your eyes.  Never had I had someone look so deeply and intently into my eyes.  That was one of my favorite things about him/us. 

My sister, a psychologist, was aware of every detail of the b/u because of the stalking element.  We spent a lot of time researching stalking and looking at his behavior from that angle.  When I told her I thought BPD, she said "WOW, yes!, that would explain the extreme and quick cycles of adoration and rage." 

I don't know if my UxBPDbf would truly receive that diagnosis.  But what I have read on bpdfamily fits my experience like no other. 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter.  The relationship was unhealthy and unsatisfying.  His very bad behavior has the gift to me of keeping me far, far away from him.  I have no idea what he'd do if he saw me again.  He might weep.  Or he might lunge.  I am not willing to risk it. 

I start with my new therapist in two days.  This will be the ultimate gift.  For me to uncover what led me there and what kept me there.  Early on there was a particularly vicious response to a conversation we had about his former dog.  Why the heck I didn't walk after that I have no idea.  But I am looking very forward to finding out. 

My experience with him was extreme enough to shake loose my own unwillingness to look at the deepest and darkest recesses of my mind.  His behavior externally reflects much of my internal experience.  That feels messed up to admit but time to stop hiding behind my ego.  AMEN!

[Maternus]

The question we have to ask ourselves is what is the smartest way to avoid that pain.

I agree with you. And one way to avoid that pain is to look at the people in our life (not just our romantic partners), find out how much influence they had on us, our thoughts, our issues (for example our parents) and get rid of false beliefs about ourselves. Reading about the experiences of other members, who's SO or ex has traits of our parents, siblings a.s.o. and talk about it to me is one part of the healing process. Not the most important part, but it helps me to see the people in my life from a different perspective.

[parisian]

There is a general 'principle' I guess that unless we are psychologists or psychiatrists, we're unable to diagnose properly as they would.

There will be some on here where there partner shows traits, but may not necessarily meet the clinical diagnosis, and of course there is a spectrum of behaviour.

As some suggested however, I think most on here were looking for answers. I know I certainly was.

I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. But I am a well educated person who is able to undertake academic research.

I ended up here because my last relationship and the behaviours from my ex were not in any way in my sphere of 'normal'. I've had healthy relationships so to some extent, understand what that behaviour looks like. I also understand some dysfunctional behaviour, but my exe's was so much more than just plain dysfunctional. Like most people, I think when our exes' behaviour is extreme, I mean behaviour that makes no rational sense whatsoever, we seek answers. I certainly did. When we have a label then it makes us feel better. We can better understand why they behaved like they did. We can to an extent, learn to forgive in that our exes were not just 'bad people', they have a serious disorder that they can't fix. For me, it was about understanding her behaviour rather than 'blaming'.

My psych and a qualified Social Work friend observed that they suspected my ex had BPD based on the behaviours I had described. Of course neither could really diagnose properly based on that.

My exes' behaviour ticks almost everyone of the DSM indicators. It made absolutely no sense, and like another poster, there were so many stories and often very small things that others spoke about, that matched the exe's behaviour, and that is what has kept me here. Of course there were behaviours that people without BPD could also exhibit, however when you put all those things together in context, it was impossible not to conclude that is what she has.

For me it was not about the labelling to be able to blame, but about wanting to understand why the heck she behaved like she did. It was in being able to start to recover. It was in understanding what are Cluster B behaviours (I had no idea BPD was even a disorder until this relationshp) and having an awareness for future relationships. It was also about understanding my role in the relationship, what kept me in that, and what I needed to focus on to recover and grow.

So the labelling for me, was an answer. It was incredibly helpful and insightful. It allowed me to be much more compassionate about the ex. If I'd not found this site and understood what BPD was, then I would still be of the view that my ex was just a crazy, horrible horrible human being.

[Maternus]

So the labelling for me, was an answer. It was incredibly helpful and insightful. It allowed me to be much more compassionate about the ex. If I'd not found this site and understood what BPD was, then I would still be of the view that my ex was just a crazy, horrible horrible human being.

Yes, same for me. So I can't see the emotional immaturity in labeling. Finding the label "BPD" for many of us was a part of our healing process.

[camuse]

My own view is that labelling is not so important. I understand why we need to find answers, and the labels helps provide some, but ultimately if your partner behaves in a manner which makes you believe they may be suffering from this disorder, then the real question is why you would accept such a relationship. The behavior is the important thing, not the reasons behind it. An abusive relationship is abusive full stop, and the question to ask is how you ended up in or tolerating such a situation.

[Maternus]

An abusive relationship is abusive full stop, and the question to ask is how you ended up in or tolerating such a situation.

Yes, that's a good question. And I can answer it: I ended up in a abusive relationship because I didn't know what abuse is. It was all normal behaviour to me I was familiar with from my childhood days. Learning about abuse was also learning to label abuse.

[valet]

An abusive relationship is abusive full stop, and the question to ask is how you ended up in or tolerating such a situation.

Yes, that's a good question. And I can answer it: I ended up in a abusive relationship because I didn't know what abuse is. It was all normal behaviour to me I was familiar with from my childhood days. Learning about abuse was also learning to label abuse.

Bingo. I think that I've across the same answer myself in the past few weeks. I had little to no serious relationship experience when I began dating my uBPDex and I simply just didn't know what to tolerate and what not to. This relationship taught me that, though. Now I feel much more prepared to know when and how to react to certain situations, and when enough really is enough.

This is the ultimate lesson. The ultimate healing, I suppose. The rest is collateral damage that will heal itself with time, space, and renewed focus on my own needs and goals in life.

[Reforming]

When I first found this site and read about BPD I felt enormous relief

My relationship had left me feeling so confused and hurt. My exes behaviour felt so contradictory and incomprehensible and I was desperately trying to make sense of what happened.

Initially, labelling her gave me reassurance and space to begin my healing and I really needed that.

As I grew more aware and a little more secure I began to focus on my own behaviour and the part I'd played and diagnosing her gradually became less important.

As far as I'm aware my ex has not been diagnosed BPD, though her childhood experiences and her behaviour during our relationship certainly fit the bill. I suspect that BPD is just part of her picture - she also has a family history of Bipolar and elements of other pds too

I am certain that I can't treat her or fix her and that I'm not responsible for her healing. That's her business and ultimately her disorder has always been a distraction from what's really important. Me.

I've been seeing a schema therapist and while she recognises that labels can sometimes serve a diagnostic purpose she is very resistant to using them. She feels it's much more helpful to focus on treating the behaviour - coping modes in schema terminology and the schemas - the painful and traumatic emotional memories that underly and drive them.

Nobody likes to be labelled

Reforming

[enlighten me]

I first thought my ex wife was HPD. It was only after looking into my exgf and her behaviour that I discovered BPD. My ex wife actually ticks all nine of the DSM. My exgf ticks seven.

After reading more I now realise that a straight forward (non proffessional) diagnoses of BPD isnt enough. I now see it is more complicated. They both display other traits from other disorders. My ex wife has strong HPD traits. My exgf has NPD and ASPD traits. Although it is not a proffessional diagnoses when the traits are this obvious then I am happy to go with it.

[Pingo]

An abusive relationship is abusive full stop, and the question to ask is how you ended up in or tolerating such a situation.

Yes, that's a good question. And I can answer it: I ended up in a abusive relationship because I didn't know what abuse is. It was all normal behaviour to me I was familiar with from my childhood days. Learning about abuse was also learning to label abuse.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Learning about abuse was how my healing really began. It was my T I was seeing while still married that pointed out that some of his behaviours were abusive. As soon as she said it, I had to agree, yet hadn't really considered it beforehand. Why? Because much of the abuse was subtle and so familiar to how my mother abused me. When I learned about the trauma bond I felt such relief. It helped explain so much. So the label of BPD for me wasn't that important in the end, it just steered me to learn about abuse and be able to recognise it. My exh isn't diagnosed BPD as far as I know but he is diagnosed with a brain injury so knew from our 2nd date that there may be issues but he reassured me that his brain injury doesn't affect his day to day living (he has retrograde amnesia though)... . I have no idea if his abuse and ridiculous behaviour was due to a PD or his brain injury. Doesn't matter now. I'm free of it and living my own life now.

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I haven't posted in a while, short of a small response today.

This has been an ongoing debate in my head since the b/u, the constant tug of war of whether I was imagining things or overreacting. Despite untold hours researching, I find myself continuing to question. However, while degrees vary, I simply cannot dismiss the overwhelming similarities that I consistently find on this board to what I and so many of us others experienced. There is absolutely no question that when looking at the end, some of us could very easily write it off as possibly the natural order of things, the natural conclusion to a relationship, but what I am as guilty of as any is not roping all of the things that led up to that ending, how much of the inevitable end was a result of the degradation of the relationship due almost exclusively to the behavior of the pwBPD.

There is no doubt that so many disorders bleed into one person but there are just too many common threads to the stories on this board for there to be any doubt that many of us did experience life with a pwBPD.

Childhood trauma

orbiters

raging

substance abuse

lack of female or meaningful friendships

Parental alienation

push pull

one foot out the door

Painted black

Love Bombing

I mean I could go on and on. It is critically hard to fight to keep the red flags up, post relationship. As I have posted before, the human mind is conditioned to purge the bad, like a mother who forgets the pain of birth and is willing to do it again. The human mind is also conditioned to believe what we see in front of us as somehow normal, just as a soldier somehow manages to endure the horrors of war and remain standing through it all.

There have been people on here who might simply have been in difficult relationships that came to a bad end but the majority of stories that I have read here on this board sound so similar that it would have to be a massive coincidence that we all ended up here.

I originally sought out bipolar as a possible candidate but what drove me here was the concept of rapid cycling. As Skip said though, most of us experienced a blend of disorders, anxiety, bipolar, ocd, narcissism, so in the end it could be that BPD is the umbrella under which we all have sought cover but one thing is for sure, even though I am trying to slow my time spent here, every time I read another story, I find something new that i thought only I had experienced and sometimes it is the silliest of things, a comment, whatever. I like to think of myself as a pretty with it and smart character. If at any point, as is what happened when I was on bipolar boards, a long time ago, if I didn't find enough commonality to almost all stories to mine, on this board, I would have left long ago.

My goal, in being here, is not to seek out anyone that will listen and empathize with my plight but rather was born of a search for people who have lived through what I have and have experienced the horrendously painful aftermath. If it isn't BPD, so be it, but damned if a lot of people I have interacted with on this board haven't experienced so damn much of what I have. If you want to call it something else, fine, ultimately the heading doesn't matter. All I know is that we have been through experiences that simply were not remotely normal. I have said before, my ex wife (who by the way also found a replacement and had some anxiety issues of her own) and I divorced after 20 years as a couple and I was not nearly as screwed up as I have been after just four years with my exBPDgf. It just ain't the same and again, when I am on this board, very rarely do I walk away not having had my jaw drop as a result of some tiny detail that someone mentioned, as a tiny spec in a much larger description of a situation.

I am way smart enough to understand the difference between simple selfish human behavior and stuff that simply IS NOT normal. Call it BPD, call it flap jacks, I don't care. At the end of the day, all I know is that many of us have gone through almost identical situations (with little shades of difference here or there or in some cases extremes that I remain grateful that I didn't have to experience, but these were simply about the degree rather than being so foreign as to not understand.) 

It just isn't possible for so many red flags to show up and they not point to something. I suspect that BPD Family has many people stop by and realize that maybe their SO's were just selfish or oblivious to the signs that their relationships were just over, who are no longer here but the rest of us stick around because there just is too much in common for us all to be wrong. One doesn't have to be a doctor to see the writing on the wall.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I resonate with this post. When my relationship abruptly ended (no fights, no warnings, just deuces) I was beyond lost. I remember wailing and saying I did everything right over and over and over. I was desperately seeking answers to questions that were ransacking my brain. As I dissected my relationship and my ex I noticed some sociopathic tendencies. There were some similarities but I wasn't convinced. At that point I thought I was reaching for anything that would caress my ego. Was I simply just handling a common break up poorly? Did she simply just fall out of love with me despite me trying to give her the world? Dazed and confused I enrolled in therapy. After the first session and plenty of tears my therapist said it sounded like I had been with someone whom had BPD. I came home and researched it bc I had no knowledge of it prior. One thing that stuck with me is when everything was in a disarray I had told my aunt how things had transpired. She has a background in psych and an over abundance of knowledge when it comes to these things. She too mentioned BPD and she said... . run.

Back to my point, once I started researching BPD and coming to these boards it's almost as if everything made sense. The dots were Being connected. The stories felt like my own. Who were these people and how did they know my life, I thought. You would think I found some relief but in fact quite the opposite.

    I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it.

[Reforming]

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person

Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

[eyvindr]

And your post totally resonates with me, Reforming. I still struggle, now nearly 8 mos NC -- haven't started seeing anyone new, don't even really feel able to, feels like I'm shell-shocked and more than a little jaded. For now, that's fine -- I'm not someone who thinks being single is a horrible thing, and I don't think 8 months out of a high-conflict r-ship like this is necessarily that much time. But I do realize that lately, when she pops into my head, I remember the good things -- just as people with addictions tend to do during their recovery. I read something the other day about dry drunk syndrome, and so much of it hit home for me, in a "holy cow, that's exactly what this feels like" kind of way. How when I think of our r-ship, I remember the fun "adventures" we'd go on, the great meals we shared at neat little ethnic restaurants, the days we spent wandering in the woods, the drives, the trips to NYC. When I think of her, I remember the silliness, the warmth, the easygoing person who I loved to spend time with -- and I have to remind myself that she was the same person who, immediately after one of those terrific days we spent together, could turn around and be unbelievably mean and demanding and so self-centered and judgmental that there were times I didn't even want to talk to her!

But yes, I agree it's been quite a realization to begin to understand how some of the traits I was most attracted to were likely as connected to BPD as some of the uglier ones that ultimately scared me away for good.

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person

Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

[Agent_of_Chaos]

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person



Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

This. I was totally drawn to this aspect of my ex. I saw someone that was trying with all her might to be successful and just kept failing at every turn. Her drive enticed me. Somewhere in the mix of all of that and the idealisation I fell for Her. She gave me her sob story and how all of her other exes destroyed her. I vowed to never be like them.I made it my mission. I had no idea what I was getting Into.

   Realizing that the darkness in her was stronger than thr light in me leaves me breathless. My belief in her was so strong, so genuine. I saw the flashes. The fact she won't even attempt to get help is just heartbreaking. This disorder, so unfair And merciless.

[Agent_of_Chaos]

And your post totally resonates with me, Reforming. I still struggle, now nearly 8 mos NC -- haven't started seeing anyone new, don't even really feel able to, feels like I'm shell-shocked and more than a little jaded. For now, that's fine -- I'm not someone who thinks being single is a horrible thing, and I don't think 8 months out of a high-conflict r-ship like this is necessarily that much time. But I do realize that lately, when she pops into my head, I remember the good things -- just as people with addictions tend to do during their recovery. I read something the other day about dry drunk syndrome, and so much of it hit home for me, in a "holy cow, that's exactly what this feels like" kind of way. How when I think of our r-ship, I remember the fun "adventures" we'd go on, the great meals we shared at neat little ethnic restaurants, the days we spent wandering in the woods, the drives, the trips to NYC. When I think of her, I remember the silliness, the warmth, the easygoing person who I loved to spend time with -- and I have to remind myself that she was the same person who, immediately after one of those terrific days we spent together, could turn around and be unbelievably mean and demanding and so self-centered and judgmental that there were times I didn't even want to talk to her!

But yes, I agree it's been quite a realization to begin to understand how some of the traits I was most attracted to were likely as connected to BPD as some of the uglier ones that ultimately scared me away for good.

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person

Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

I think I am skipping hand in hand with dry drunk syndrome. I have a really hard time getting angry about things. I am bitter but the feeling of being hurt overshadows everything. I take everything far too personal and find myself stewing about the whys and hows. I'm stuck. I too remember the laughing, movie nights, the kisses, and the fact that after 3 yrs she gave me a 3 day notice she was moving out of state takes a back burner. The fact that she played with my heart and made it seem like she wanted things to work long distance becomes irrelevant. The fact that the only reason she told me she still wanted to keep things going so she could collect her things without animosity gets lost. She played my heart like a fiddle bc she was too cowardly to confront me and what she was doing to me.

   Despite all this I have a hard time being angry because of thr knowledge of BPD itself. She didn't ask for it and it is horrific. My compassion is stunting my healing.

[Reforming]

And your post totally resonates with me, Reforming. I still struggle, now nearly 8 mos NC -- haven't started seeing anyone new, don't even really feel able to, feels like I'm shell-shocked and more than a little jaded. For now, that's fine -- I'm not someone who thinks being single is a horrible thing, and I don't think 8 months out of a high-conflict r-ship like this is necessarily that much time. But I do realize that lately, when she pops into my head, I remember the good things -- just as people with addictions tend to do during their recovery. I read something the other day about dry drunk syndrome, and so much of it hit home for me, in a "holy cow, that's exactly what this feels like" kind of way. How when I think of our r-ship, I remember the fun "adventures" we'd go on, the great meals we shared at neat little ethnic restaurants, the days we spent wandering in the woods, the drives, the trips to NYC. When I think of her, I remember the silliness, the warmth, the easygoing person who I loved to spend time with -- and I have to remind myself that she was the same person who, immediately after one of those terrific days we spent together, could turn around and be unbelievably mean and demanding and so self-centered and judgmental that there were times I didn't even want to talk to her!

But yes, I agree it's been quite a realization to begin to understand how some of the traits I was most attracted to were likely as connected to BPD as some of the uglier ones that ultimately scared me away for good.

eyvindr

As you say 8 months isn't long at all.  I found the first year really hard. It's gradually got better, but I still have the ability to lapse into unhealthy fantasy and nostalgia.

You're absolutely right - it's so much easier to remember the good moments. Perhaps because it soothes us to feel that we were loved. Frustratingly their ability to devalue us seems to be in inverse proportion to our inability to devalue them. I found reconciling the dark and the light as part of the same person one of the hardest things to do.

I saw mine for the first time in two years recently in difficult circumstances and the experience really underlined the reality of her disorder, though it doesn't make me feel any less sad for her

[Reforming]

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person



Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

This. I was totally drawn to this aspect of my ex. I saw someone that was trying with all her might to be successful and just kept failing at every turn. Her drive enticed me. Somewhere in the mix of all of that and the idealisation I fell for Her. She gave me her sob story and how all of her other exes destroyed her. I vowed to never be like them.I made it my mission. I had no idea what I was getting Into.

  Realizing that the darkness in her was stronger than thr light in me leaves me breathless. My belief in her was so strong, so genuine. I saw the flashes. The fact she won't even attempt to get help is just heartbreaking. This disorder, so unfair And merciless.

Chaos I knew that deep down my ex felt overwhelmed with fear and hurt, but she tried to overcome it and keep on fighting.

I used to tell her that she was the bravest person I knew.

But I was deeply hurt that she shouldn't try and get help.

Now I realise that facing up to yourself and working to get better takes real bravery.

I'm still sad that she didn't care enough about us to really try, but I'm glad I've found the strength to do that work for myself. I realise that it's a journey I needed to make on my own

[myself]

Call it BPD, call it flap jacks

I heard a comedian say, "You can't be like pancakes... . All exciting at first, but then by the end you're sick of them." Sounds like many of these possibly-BPD relationships, at least as far as the 'bad behaviors' and after-effects go. Which is really what this all comes down to. It's best to choose a peaceful path.

[Agent_of_Chaos]

"I learned that the person I bared my soul to, whom I loved more than anything, was in a completely different world than I was in. She was ill, broken, and riddled with fear; and there isn't anything I could do about it."

Agent I can relate to this. Accepting the reality of the disorder and our powerlessness to fix it is very hard, but it's the foundation of recovery.

I also realised that the disorder is an intrinsic part my exes personality that has shaped her for good and bad. Many of the qualities that drew me to her - her idealisation of me - her childlike playfulness - her intensity are all products of the disorder. I was drawn to the disorder as much as I was drawn to the person



Working out why and learning to answer those needs in healthier ways has become my most important goal

Reforming

This. I was totally drawn to this aspect of my ex. I saw someone that was trying with all her might to be successful and just kept failing at every turn. Her drive enticed me. Somewhere in the mix of all of that and the idealisation I fell for Her. She gave me her sob story and how all of her other exes destroyed her. I vowed to never be like them.I made it my mission. I had no idea what I was getting Into.

  Realizing that the darkness in her was stronger than thr light in me leaves me breathless. My belief in her was so strong, so genuine. I saw the flashes. The fact she won't even attempt to get help is just heartbreaking. This disorder, so unfair And merciless.

Chaos I knew that deep down my ex felt overwhelmed with fear and hurt, but she tried to overcome it and keep on fighting.

I used to tell her that she was the bravest person I knew.

But I was deeply hurt that she shouldn't try and get help.

Now I realise that facing up to yourself and working to get better takes real bravery.

I'm still sad that she didn't care enough about us to really try, but I'm glad I've found the strength to do that work for myself. I realise that it's a journey I needed to make on my own

I think that's the reason why I'm having such a struggle. I'm not happy about the games she played towards the end of our relationship. Her actual departure was brutal and I believe she handled it in that manner bc she truly couldn't face me. I honestly believe she didn't set out to massacre my heart. Call it fog call it foolishness, but I genuinely believe that. I too saw my ex fight. I saw her struggle. She couldn't wrap her head around it. She said I have a great relationship, a great job, but my head still is all over the place. I remember begging her to fight for us. I kept repeating we are worth it. Our family is worth it. By the time I learned of this disorder it was too late. She was gone and everything we shared including myself, was just an image in the rear view mirror.

[Wood stock]

Limbo... .I love your post! Call it BPD or call it flapjacks... .it is just NOT NORMAL behavior... .beautiful analysis... .