Trust is Strange

[chillilintroller]

I found the love of my life. He makes me feel complere. We click better than any of me and my exs have in so many little, lovely ways. That's why I don't want this to end, I know I may have to, but this will help either way.

When we got together I found him help for the schizophrenia we both knew he had, he started medication and started seeing psychiatrists. Recently after more sessions he has been diagnosed with bipolar and also BPD. It is the diagnoses of BPD I have a problem with... .

Today, after finding small evidence of lies, I found out he's been lying to me during our whole relationship about a range of things.

I found pictures of him and his ex from just before (and possibly overlapping) we got together

After speaking to his ex who gave me hard evidence, I now doubt a lot of his "truths."

I know it's not her lying, she's sent me all the conversations, photos, information he deleted to hide from me.

-said his ex cheated, when in fact, he left her for another woman

-said he got kicked out of home at 14, he didn't

-said he was only talking to his ex when they were a rekindled item just before we got together

-said she used to verbally abuse him and he found her cheating on a bed he built

-said he lived with his ex, he was living with his uncle

-said his parents didn't want us together because he told me they thought I was too controlling, when it is more possible that they didn't want me to be affected by his BPD since they are okay people and I am not a controlling person

-said lots of small things that add up, holidays that never happened, jobs he used to have, possible deaths of friends

I know he experienced some trauma as a child and his father left him.

I would like to confirm this with his family because I don't even know if this is real other than it's what he told his ex too. But after a lot of thinking of course.

I want to trust him, more than anything, I want all this to be made up, we spend hours talking about how we feel and our pasts and the details we want to know about each others lives to calm our paranoia of the possibility of lying or leaving like my ex, at least, have done before.

But after finding out he's been lying to me all this time, and denied everything when I proposed what I had heard to be the truth, I don't know if I can trust him anymore. I called him just before work, so I accepted his "truth" as I didn't want him to lose his job and if this does end I want to have evidence on my part and I want him to see what he has done to me other than a cold phonecall. So I will wait until we can see each other again (it's long distance but only by a small amount, we used to go to uni together, he then moved back home, I am still in uni, we see each other every two-four weeks).

He's my best friend, we click amazingly well, all I want is for him to be happy and for me to be happy, and I've said I don't care about his past as long as he doesn't lie to me, so why lie?

He has never physically abused me or called me names, but he has lied to me all this time and cheated on me when we were "seeing each other." Not officially dating but very emotionally invested in each other (I wanted to wait longer as it wasn't long after my last relationship, I wanted to make sure I should open myself up for another person again).

I have been honest with him from start to finish, every doubt, every hope for the future, every opinion, I'd rather he know and like it than hide from him and he have problems with it. So why would he lie to me and possibly pretend to be something he is not when I have said relentlessly how much being honest means to me.

I want to trust him, I don't know if I will be able to, I hope in few weeks he admits everything, gets himself help purely for his BPD and actually changes and doesn't lie to me about it. But that is a long shot and could potentially waste my time, money (travelling) and wreck my future relationships.

Why would he lie?

I've told him I'm not going anywhere as long as he keeps to the truth

What else has he lied about?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[an0ught]

Hi  and chillilintroller ,

When we got together I found him help for the schizophrenia we both knew he had, he started medication and started seeing psychiatrists. Recently after more sessions he has been diagnosed with bipolar and also BPD. It is the diagnoses of BPD I have a problem with... .

Wow, that's a long list. But then it is not so uncommon that someone with BPD gets diagnosed with Bipolar and the other way round. These two conditions can look quite similar from a distance. They differ a lot in treatment with BP requiring long term properly dosed medication and BPD needed intensive therapy but can in some way be overcome.

After speaking to his ex who gave me hard evidence, I now doubt a lot of his "truths."

I know it's not her lying, she's sent me all the conversations, photos, information he deleted to hide from me.

The fact that he is convincing is based on him hiding stuff from himself. He is doing a lot of stuff he is not happy with and that is causing pain. Mental pain in a pwBPD is escalating to a point where disassociation occurs - at that point thinking is severely impaired. Some of what has been initially understood as schizophrenia may well be also a result of him being under mental pressure all the time. Is the in therapy for BPD and how is he handling that?

I know he experienced some trauma as a child and his father left him.

I would like to confirm this with his family because I don't even know if this is real other than it's what he told his ex too. But after a lot of thinking of course.

You already know he is feeling his father abandoned him. You already know he has a significant fear of abandonment (moving without break from ex to you). What would you do with the facts? Trying to "correct" his thinking would only invalidate him. If this is an important point in his personal past treat careful at the moment. Whatever the reality of the facts the pain he is feeling there is real and can from your vantage point at best be soothed a times with validation.

I have been honest with him from start to finish, every doubt, every hope for the future, every opinion, I'd rather he know and like it than hide from him and he have problems with it. So why would he lie to me and possibly pretend to be something he is not when I have said relentlessly how much being honest means to me.

Insert Quote

I found the love of my life. He makes me feel complere. We click better than any of me and my exs have in so many little, lovely ways. T

You value factual honesty. He is focusing more on expressing emotions and also paying close attention to your emotions and managing those. Facts are secondary to him and function as a tool to express his and affect your emotions.

I want to trust him, I don't know if I will be able to, I hope in few weeks he admits everything, gets himself help purely for his BPD and actually changes and doesn't lie to me about it. But that is a long shot and could potentially waste my time, money (travelling) and wreck my future relationships.

He is lying to keep his pain in check. Without going through therapy it is unlikely he is able to face the realities. The way you describe him with over the top lying and being diagnosed with schizophrenia he seems to be almost continuously at his coping limit. DBT therapy would first establish a relationship to the T, then work with him on managing his emotions and only when he got that far address some facts.

For the time being he will retreat to fantasy land when internal pain ramps up. That that happens quickly when he feels invalidated or threatened.

Trust in such situation is a difficult topic. In some way you can trust him acting very consistently and predictably within the constraints of his illness. Having a good idea how much internal pressure is at any time in play and understanding the role of validation and invalidation will make it easier to read his true intentions. Describing things on the board and external feedback can help here. Being able to communicate in a validating manner and addressing facts using the SET format will reduce his needs to lie. Facts don't matter so much unless you base your decisions on it. Here boundaries are important - where your decisions are concerned you will have to be careful on how much you rely on facts contributed by him. E.g. it is perfectly OK to validate his excitement about a scheme he may have cooked up to invest in. The scheme may be a real winner or may tank soon. It does not matter so much as long as you don't invest in it and as long as you don't advise others to do so. If you consider investing or recommending and your money and reputation is on the line you have to do some fact checking first.

Why would he lie?

I've told him I'm not going anywhere as long as he keeps to the truth

What else has he lied about?

At this point in time trying to stop him lying is not only hopeless it will make matters worse as it will be invalidating. Trying to catch him at it will wear you out. Getting a deeper understanding of his emotions and protecting yourself from being impacted from his fantasies may be a better way to spend your energy. There are a number of tools that can help you (see the LESSONS). In the medium and long term a lot depends on him going to therapy. In the short run most improvements typically come from non's learning skills.

I could say "trust me here". I rather say - be skeptical and give it a try. Trust does not come overnight and is based on deeds. Success with the tools is also a process that takes time. I'm optimistic and absolutely convinced they work. You may be willing to extend a little trust and give it a try. And where it works you will be willing to extend trust a bit more. At the moment the trust in your bf is shattered. Rebuilding will take time, some learning from your side and also taking some limited (see boundaries) risks.

Again welcome to the board,

a0

[Notwendy]

I think that is the essence of borderline vs schitzophrenia. The person with schitzophrenia can really live in an alternate reality. The person with BPD can walk the border of that, and if stressed or dysregulated, cross to the other side of reality, and when not, be on the real side, or at least appear to be.

I have a friend who, sadly, has serious schitzophrenia. She will describe her hallucinations. To her, they are absolutely real. She believes them. To me, they are obviously not real.

My mother, who has severe BPD, can sometimes say something that is absolutely true, and then she will outright like to me, and then also deny it. Is she deliberately lying? That is hard to tell. I think some of it is hiding things she is ashamed at, to keep from feeling the pain. I also think the "feeling =fact" is in play and at some times, she really truly believes that it is true. There is also some denial in place as well. One thing that was frustrating to me is when my father accepted her reality and played in to it. Mom would have a raging scene one day and the next day, it didn't happen. We were not allowed to mention it.

My friend, sadly, will talk about things that do not happen, like the radio talking to her when it isn't on. I know for certain that she is hallucinating. What is difficult with my mother is that her lies are based in reality, about things that could possibly happen, or not happen. I don't know if she is deliberatly lying, or really believes what she says.

I get the invalidation part. With my friend, telling her the radio isn't talking to her is invalidating her. It's real to her. I don't have to agree that the radio is talking, but I can validate that she is scared, confused, and it seems real to her, and then tell her it is not. I can't buy into her reality. It's the same with my mom. Telling her she is lying is invalidating. Rather, I pick the issues that are important. Often, we siblings fact-check with each other- if mom says one thing, and we think it is important- we fact check it. The rest, we let go.

I think it would be harder with a romantic parter, but I think we have to focus on what is necessary to know, and what, perhaps we just can't know.

[waverider]

pwBPD often use words and facts as pigments to be mixed at will to paint a picture that best portrays what they are trying to express. Their "art' is not always that of realism. It is a way of thinking and expressing. The lack of boundary between fact and fantasy is often either weak or non existent.

You will not be able to build that differentiation in them, it is not there. To cope with this you need to stop taking what they say as literally the truth, but more of a reflection of what thy feel at that time.

It is this bending of the boundaries that makes them instantly appealing as they can better bend to mirror and bond with you. That is the flip site of the disorder, they are rarely dull when they can be a chameleon.

Complete honesty is alien to him, that is why he will fear abandonment and be suspicious of you at times as he can't have complete trust in you either due to complete honesty being a concept that is he can't really conceive.