The BPD 'Fairy Tale'

[FannyB]

Just musing, as I enter a period of NC with my uBPDexgf, about the fairy tale nature of relationships with borderlines. The conventional fairy tales I was told as a child had the following key components: Beautiful, but disadvantaged heroine, handsome prince/white knight, and an evil monster/person who had to be slain to give the mandatory happy ending.  Most of those components manifest themselves in borderline relationships with a couple of key differences: The disadvantaged heroine doubles up as the monster - and there is no happy ending! In fact, it's some sort of reverse fairy tale where the beginning of the relationship is 'perfect' but it all turns to dust despite the valiant attempts of the befuddled White Knight. I think that this may be yet another reason why recovering from these relationships is so damn difficult - it flies right in the face of the way we are programmed to think things 'should turn out'. 

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Very well said,  FannyB!

[GrimFellow]

I like the way in which you percieve all of this But my relationship wasn't just a reversed fairytale. In fact there were multiple monsters created by my diagnosed exBPDgf (her parents, ex-partners) and I couldn't slain them all because sometimes they switched their places in order. For example one day she described me her childhood with all the monstrocities that her parents have done to her. She also said that she hates them, but the other day before our appointment she says that she can't go out with me because she has to help her mother to clean the house. She canceled our plans many times because she had something to do with her parents, and if I would tell her that we planned our activities before her mother asked her to do something she would furiously yell that I'm "attempting to separate her from her family". It wasn't true cause usually we met 1-2 times a week (she lived 1h drive from me).

[Invictus01]

Yeah, don't forget - there is also a large group of friends somewhere in there who is telling the Knight to "forget her and move on, stop feel sorry for yourself" at the end, completely not understanding that his fairy tale princess just completely destroyed him.

[Pingo]

Just musing, as I enter a period of NC with my uBPDexgf, about the fairy tale nature of relationships with borderlines. The conventional fairy tales I was told as a child had the following key components: Beautiful, but disadvantaged heroine, handsome prince/white knight, and an evil monster/person who had to be slain to give the mandatory happy ending. 

The perfect Karpman's triangle. Persecutor/Victim/Rescuer 

[parisian]

'... .it flies right in the face of the way we are programmed to think things 'should turn out'. 

Fanny, it sure does.

It flies right in the face of the way we expect any normal relationship to turn out. Because our partners have a serious mental illness.

In normal relationships, we go through a honeymoon phase, a tougher nutting out the initial differences phase, then we move into a much deeper love phase. Our partners respect us and our views. They support us when things in our lives are difficult. They show love and care. There is never any fairy tale in normal relationships either, but generally love grows together. Of course there are hard times in normal relationships too, and these don't always last either.

A relationship with a BPD never evens out, the love never grows stronger or deeper. The basics of love, care and respect only exist on one side - ours. Over time, a r/s with a BPD gets worse. We expect 'normal' behaviour and are hurt, confused, frustrated, angered and disappointed in the way our partner interacts with and treats us. It is a nightmare that repeats itself for every day we stay in the relationship, and often stays with us for months while we recover after the breakup.

It is not until we discover the nightmare has a name and then we are woken from our bad dream, and slowly stumble and make our way out into the light again.

[Deeno02]

Frankly, I think it's more of a science fiction or horror novel myself. A good old Vampire movie where you fall under their spell, become a part of them while they suck the life out of you and then move on to another victim. These are simply the thoughts of me, myself and I.

[FannyB]

Invictus

The 'supporting cast' will invariably include the White Knight's disbelieving friends, her scornful enablers plus the mystery legions of villainous exes who you never get to meet... .

[Mr.Downtrodden]

It's like a Broadway show - long running, starring the BPD, with a perpetually revolving cast of supporting characters.

[Mutt]

Yeah, don't forget - there is also a large group of friends somewhere in there who is telling the Knight to "forget her and move on, stop feel sorry for yourself" at the end, completely not understanding that his fairy tale princess just completely destroyed him.

It's invalidating when friends say "get over it!"

This is painful stuff.

I think that this may be yet another reason why recovering from these relationships is so damn difficult - it flies right in the face of the way we are programmed to think things 'should turn out'. 

I would like to add.

What I found the most difficult in recovery is the person that idealized changed into a person that devalued and dehumanized.

One I couldn't reason with.

[FannyB]

Mutt

Do you think that the switch to the devaluing phase is more painful if you have low self-esteem or easier to cope with? I mean, however painful it is for a non, it must be worse for a narcissist who probably feels they deserve be placed on a pedestal? 

[Mutt]

She would idealize and devaluate and the periods of either changed.

Idealization periods grew shorter and the devaluation phases grew longer.

What I found painful was the moment I was split black and since that moment.

The person I knew for nearly eight years disappeared.

I felt like I lost my wife.

For two years I don't recognize her and can't talk to her, even for a short idealization period.

[FannyB]

Mutt

Do you think that the switch to the devaluing phase is more painful if you have low self-esteem or easier to cope with? I mean, however painful it is for a non, it must be worse for a narcissist who probably feels they deserve be placed on a pedestal? 

Anyone here with narcissistic traits care to debate my question?

[Mr.Downtrodden]

A narcissist can easily find replacement supply.  That is their main focus - hunt and capture. The game.

They don't and cannot suffer like nons.  If a non leaves them, it thwarts their expectations (control, manipulation) for a period of time.  But they are so programmed to conquer that they automatically move on, devoid of feeling. Because they can;t feel like a non can.

[Blimblam]

Well I have a lot of ideas about fairy tales and borderlines but I stopped mentioning it because I saw that it was being twisted to confirm BPDs as some sort of demon and demonizing others keeps us from examining ourselves.  But if I had to choose 2 movies.  There's something about mary and Metropolis ok and fightclub. Also for old school the persephone deter myth from ancient Greece. Also the myth of Orpheus, orpheuss wife.   And Jason's wife from Jason and the Argonauts.  Also Aphrodite.

As for narcissistic traits. It really would depend on the individual and if they attach to the pwBPD or not on a deeper level.  when I ended up here like many of you I looked up NPD psychopathy as BPD online and to be honest their is a LOT of junk psychology on the net especially those YouTube videos.  Lol. I think people often confuse narcisissm with malignant narcissm and especially psychopathy.  Narcissm is basically an inner construct that objectifies. Other people to allow you to project your inner crap into the idea of an "other." This allows you to create a false image of yourself in relation to this "other."

[FannyB]

I've read that people with NPD and BPD can be strongly attracted to each other as the narcissist's strong sense of self would naturally appeal to a pwBPD looking to attach. My point is, when this invariably breaks down and the BPD starts devaluing, would this not be devastating for the narcissist in a way that mere 'nons' would find difficult to appreciate? My ex was married to a narcissist for 12 years and I know he threatened suicide when she left him. A non with self-esteem issues might be more philosophical at being de-valued as they probably didn't think they were God's gift in the first place!

[jhkbuzz]

I would like to add.

What I found the most difficult in recovery is the person that idealized changed into a person that devalued and dehumanized.

One I couldn't reason with.

OHMIGOSH ^^^^

It took me MONTHS to make sense of (and accept) that "change" in my ex. It was easily the most difficult part of the r/s to reconcile.

And the 'inability to reason with'?  Utterly maddening.

[Copperfox]

Just musing, as I enter a period of NC with my uBPDexgf, about the fairy tale nature of relationships with borderlines. The conventional fairy tales I was told as a child had the following key components: Beautiful, but disadvantaged heroine, handsome prince/white knight, and an evil monster/person who had to be slain to give the mandatory happy ending.  Most of those components manifest themselves in borderline relationships with a couple of key differences: The disadvantaged heroine doubles up as the monster - and there is no happy ending! In fact, it's some sort of reverse fairy tale where the beginning of the relationship is 'perfect' but it all turns to dust despite the valiant attempts of the befuddled White Knight. I think that this may be yet another reason why recovering from these relationships is so damn difficult - it flies right in the face of the way we are programmed to think things 'should turn out'.  

Perhaps part of the problem is our own belief in that Disneyland fairy tale of love. Perhaps it is unrealistic, perhaps our own expectations of how things 'should turn out' led us astray.

No doubt, I was swept up in it myself. Lost my edge, lost my frame. The thing I've tried to take away from it is to have a more honest view of myself, of life, of relationships. That the line between beauty and cruelty is very fine indeed. Fairy tales are for children.

[FannyB]

Copperfox

I agree that the naive romantic looking everywhere for love to make himself 'complete' is easy prey for a borderline and their fairy tale romantic notions.  However, I'm an old cynic and I still fell for it! Took her 6 months to completely win me over, but how long can you reasonably keep your guard up for without feeling like an untrusting piece of crap yourself? 

[Copperfox]

Copperfox

I agree that the naive romantic looking everywhere for love to make himself 'complete' is easy prey for a borderline and their fairy tale romantic notions.  However, I'm an old cynic and I still fell for it! Took her 6 months to completely win me over, but how long can you reasonably keep your guard up for without feeling like an untrusting piece of crap yourself?  

We are all socialized to believe in fairy tale romance.  Girls are made of "sugar and spice, and everything nice." They need to be saved, by white knights who sacrifice everything else. But in truth women are just like men, our behaviors are rooted in instinctive drives. In biological imperatives that have kept our species alive for millenia. It is neither good nor bad - it simply "is". Social interaction, social relationships, are transactional. There is something we want.

You can never let your guard down completely. You must always maintain some level of detachment in any relationship. You must always be willing to walk away.

All relationships will end, either thru departure or death or something else. Like everything else in life, they are ephemeral. Things come and go. You cannot hold them. You cannot possess them. They were there for a time, but they were never yours. Value the time you had, but never put anything on a pedestal.

pwBPD are a lesson in the veracity of this.

[ZeusRLX]

Copperfox

I agree that the naive romantic looking everywhere for love to make himself 'complete' is easy prey for a borderline and their fairy tale romantic notions.  However, I'm an old cynic and I still fell for it! Took her 6 months to completely win me over, but how long can you reasonably keep your guard up for without feeling like an untrusting piece of crap yourself? 

Yes, they can be devilishly patient.

Anyone with any kind of hero complex or excessive empathy/compassion as well as propensity for romance should be very very careful.

[ZeusRLX]

But, you're absolutely right!

In fact, I just watched Cinderella the new movie a few weeks ago (great movie, BTW).

And I was just thinking... .this is JUST like my relationship except at the last moment Cinderella tells the prince that actually she kind of liked living in the old house and she is not so sure about their relationship and then he finds out she has been sleeping with half the town.

So, yeah, a BPD romance is essentially a stereotypical White Knight - damsel in distresss fairy tale except the ending is ALWAYS an ending where the heroine is revealed as a manipulative witch and that the whole thing was a lie basically.

First time I learned that it was a painful realization.

Now I find it quite humorous... .

So what does that tell us about the nature of our fairytales?

And maybe SOME people out there start relationships this way and they work out... .certainly not me and not most people in this forum!

So is it that something is wrong with these standards/ideas per se because they are unrealistic or they do work for some people (just not us)?

[FannyB]

So is it that something is wrong with these standards/ideas per se because they are unrealistic or they do work for some people (just not us)?

Zeus

It can work - haven't you seen Pretty Woman? 

Seriously, I'm sure some more conventional relationships not involving a pwBPD have had a fairytale beginning and persisted successfully beyond the honeymoon period. I guess, statistically speaking, they are pretty few and far between though.  :'(

[ZeusRLX]

So is it that something is wrong with these standards/ideas per se because they are unrealistic or they do work for some people (just not us)?

Zeus

It can work - haven't you seen Pretty Woman? 

Seriously, I'm sure some more conventional relationships not involving a pwBPD have had a fairytale beginning and persisted successfully beyond the honeymoon period. I guess, statistically speaking, they are pretty few and far between though.  :'(

Yeah, there are billions of people out there, for at least a few of them this kind of stuff HAS to work. I heard people talk about it but it's very hard to know what's going on inside a relationship. I had known couples who were married for 30 years with kids and then they get a messy divorce and it turns out he was a NPD who abused her emotionally and physically. So, yes, there are happy relationships out there but what I've learned is that it's often very hard to judge on appearances when you assume too much.

But for me personally, even the notion of anything resembling any kind of fairytale romance or even true love... .it's not an attractive notion at all anymore.

Thank God I managed not to marry anyone or get anyone pregnant.

One of my acquaintances married this girl he met through church, she was idealistic, wanted a family, yada yada yada.

He married her, she gave birth to two kids. Then she decided this whole perfect Christian marriage thing (they were both religious) was not working out so she bailed, found some kind of tattooed punk rock guy with no job and married him (divorced him a year later and found someone else, surprise!). Never saw the kids since and it's been years.

So he is raising the kids on his own and working full time.

So I'm just very grateful that neither pregnancy nor marriage were the dreams of any of my borderlines, would complicate my life a lot more... .

[cosmonaut]

I think your fairy tale analogy is a good one.  There is actually an interesting article about this that compares the BPD archetypes to fairy tale archetypes.  It's from the book Understanding the Borderline Mother by Christine Lawson, and I've always thought it rather clever.  You might want to check it out if you haven't already.

One difference in the way that I see the analogy is that the monster is not our ex, but BPD itself.  That's the monster and it is a terrible and cruel dragon.  Our ex is indeed the maiden locked away in the tower in need of rescue and looking for her white knight to save her.  What she doesn't realize however, is that the white knight can't save her and only she has the key to her own tower.  She's quite capable of freeing herself and slaying the dragon, if only she could see that in herself.

[FannyB]

One difference in the way that I see the analogy is that the monster is not our ex, but BPD itself.  That's the monster and it is a terrible and cruel dragon.  Our ex is indeed the maiden locked away in the tower in need of rescue and looking for her white knight.  What she doesn't realize however, is that the white knight can't save her and only she has the key to her own tower.  She's quite capable of freeing herself and slaying the dragon, if only she could see that in herself.

Cosmonaut

I haven't read the book in question, but I do like to use metaphors and analogies to aid my understanding of events.  I like your analogy, but perhaps the maiden in question should be suffering from some sort of sight defect as she refuses to see what's in the mirror and projects her defects onto others.

[Mutt]

I like your analogy, but perhaps the maiden in question should be suffering from some sort of sight defect as she refuses to see what's in the mirror and projects her defects onto others.

Sight defect or denial? Do people sometimes deflect ownership of their issues and actions and blame outside circumstances or others?

[Bassoutcast]

I like the way in which you percieve all of this But my relationship wasn't just a reversed fairytale. In fact there were multiple monsters created by my diagnosed exBPDgf (her parents, ex-partners) and I couldn't slain them all because sometimes they switched their places in order. For example one day she described me her childhood with all the monstrocities that her parents have done to her. She also said that she hates them, but the other day before our appointment she says that she can't go out with me because she has to help her mother to clean the house. She canceled our plans many times because she had something to do with her parents, and if I would tell her that we planned our activities before her mother asked her to do something she would furiously yell that I'm "attempting to separate her from her family". It wasn't true cause usually we met 1-2 times a week (she lived 1h drive from me).

Wow, sounds a lot like my ex.

She used to say how much no one understands her at home and nobody cares for her and actually that got me to offer her to live together after only about a month and a half into the r/s, then suddenly she 'reconciles' with her parents and doesn't mention moving in with me anymore.

We actually got into arguments only when the triangulating happened - either I'm her angel and love of her life and her family doesn't understand her and care, or her family  wants to spend time with her and I'm not being an understanding boyfriend and don't support her effort to "rekindle bonds with her family" (of course over our already-planned dates)

[Achaya]

Just musing, as I enter a period of NC with my uBPDexgf, about the fairy tale nature of relationships with borderlines. The conventional fairy tales I was told as a child had the following key components: Beautiful, but disadvantaged heroine, handsome prince/white knight, and an evil monster/person who had to be slain to give the mandatory happy ending.  Most of those components manifest themselves in borderline relationships with a couple of key differences: The disadvantaged heroine doubles up as the monster - and there is no happy ending! In fact, it's some sort of reverse fairy tale where the beginning of the relationship is 'perfect' but it all turns to dust despite the valiant attempts of the befuddled White Knight. I think that this may be yet another reason why recovering from these relationships is so damn difficult - it flies right in the face of the way we are programmed to think things 'should turn out'. 

This priceless! Especially the part about the captive maiden doubling as the monster! LOL!

Seriously, I think fairy tales have a much more profound influence on our personal romantic scripts than we like to admit.

[Achaya]

Frankly, I think it's more of a science fiction or horror novel myself. A good old Vampire movie where you fall under their spell, become a part of them while they suck the life out of you and then move on to another victim. These are simply the thoughts of me, myself and I.

I've had the same imagery. I tried to turn it into a butterfly moving from flower to flower, but either way you get left.