empty intimacy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

For a while I have felt very detached from my BPDh.  Just been going through the motions.  My wall is almost continuously up.  But for things to go as smoothly as possible I remember to say "I love you" before I get the sarcastic "I love you too" from him if I don't say it first or forget to say it. Same with sex.  If I don't regularly participate enthusiastically, then I must be cheating.  During sex I feel little to no connection.  I concentrate on me, that's how I make it through sex with someone I no longer connect with.  It's like doing a chore so I can have a less stressful day.  I used to really enjoy intimacy. According to him it's some of the best sex we have ever had.  How can it be the best when I am not connected?  Then I have to say how great it is or he will get upset.  I feel like a big liar.  If I ever tell him the truth about any type of feeling I have either he rages, tells me how I am wrong for feeling that way or it becomes a weapon for a future argument.  I feel like I am trapped, and now I think I might be pregnant (late, but haven't tested yet). 

[Smileypants]

For a while I have felt very detached from my BPDh.  Just been going through the motions.  My wall is almost continuously up.  But for things to go as smoothly as possible I remember to say "I love you" before I get the sarcastic "I love you too" from him if I don't say it first or forget to say it. Same with sex.  If I don't regularly participate enthusiastically, then I must be cheating.  During sex I feel little to no connection.  I concentrate on me, that's how I make it through sex with someone I no longer connect with.  It's like doing a chore so I can have a less stressful day.  I used to really enjoy intimacy. According to him it's some of the best sex we have ever had.  How can it be the best when I am not connected?  Then I have to say how great it is or he will get upset.  I feel like a big liar.  If I ever tell him the truth about any type of feeling I have either he rages, tells me how I am wrong for feeling that way or it becomes a weapon for a future argument.  I feel like I am trapped, and now I think I might be pregnant (late, but haven't tested yet). 

[Mike-X]

Thank you for sharing this. Are you seeing a therapist? What do you think you would need in order to feel more connected?

[Smileypants]

No I am not seeing a therapist (can't find the time, 6 kids, work & have to account for everything I do and everywhere I go).  I strive to get there eventually.  Right now I am more focused on dealing with my children's issues and getting them therapy.

  Husband is high functioning BPD with BI Polar in denial that anything is wrong with him.  I found out about his diagnosis about a year and a half ago from his older sister.  He was diagnosed as a teenager.  He doesn't know that I know.  Before I found out of his diagnosis I thought I was going crazy.  Learning about BPD helped me be able to identify behaviors and understand why he does what he does.  But I am spent.  I don't know how much longer I can hang on to this.  And why should I?  What about it was real?  How do I get anything that I need from this?  How long do I have to be a caretaker for this adult toddler?  I know his mother wasn't a mother for him, but I do not want to be his "mother" & I don't want to be his verbal punching block.

If he took some ownership of his behavior (extremely controlling, verbal & emotional abuse, threatening, etc... .) Might help.  Him getting treatment. Him not scaring me, him not accusing me of everything from cheating on him to poisoning him. 

I feel damaged, injured and that I can never trust him.  He can't give me a safe  & loving home (the house itself is actually mine) for me and my kids.  I can't be myself, I lost who I was along the way. My children are afraid of him and so am I.  We all live constantly on edge, waiting for the next explosion.

[Michelle27]

I am so sorry you are feeling the way you are.  I totally empathize with the feeling of hopelessness and wondering whether anything was real.  And the empty intimacy... .holy crap, you nailed it right on the head.

I hit the end of my coping skills not long ago and my uBPDh and I are currently separated in a bit of a different way.  We own our home and have a child together in our home, but knowing how much I need space and our daughter needs both of us, I rented a room and we are alternating weeks with one of us staying in the room and one in our home and then switching.  I desperately need the space, and he acknowledges that he too needs that space right now.  Stopping by the house yesterday to pick up something on my way out with girlfriends (it's my turn in the rented room now) he actually had the nerve to say to me that if I want some sex after my night out, I know where to find him and I could stop by on my way home.  SERIOUSLY?

As for your situation, I do think you should prioritize getting yourself some therapy.  I realized recently that I can't be the best mother/wife/teacher I want to be unless I take care of myself first.  The old, "before helping someone with their oxygen mask, put yours on" really is true.  You can't go on this way much longer without something snapping, and trust me, it does help.  I spent 4 months with a counselor helping me through my own anger and resentments and building up my strength to place and enforce boundaries.  That's how I ended up separated.  I just called for another set of sessions to make sure I am handling this separation the way I should be... .what I need to do to take care of me beyond just "taking a break".  I do hope that my husband is going to hold up his end of the bargain and continue with his therapy (he actually has a mental health evaluation in a few months) taking CBT classes, pursuing DBT, requesting a referral to a psychiatrist, attending a men's group and even signing up for anger management.  I'm still unsure if he is doing all of this to keep me or for himself but it's the first time he is taking ownership of his own issues.

Sorry to hijack your thread with my crap.  But I want you to know that I understand where you are, and I want you to know that there is a way out of that hopelessness.

[Smileypants]

Thank you for your responses, I know I need to take care of myself and I do have good intentions.  I know that therapy would be helpful.  Before I met my husband I was so much more in tune with myself.  I was a massage therapist and was also interested in polarity therapy & herbology, natural healing, meditation , yoga... . But my husband slowly eroded my interests as well as my spirit in general.  He would tell me how that stuff doesn't work & he didn't want me to be touching other people & that I shouldn't want too.

I am trying to get back into the routine of doing yoga and meditation for relaxation and to center myself.

[Michelle27]

Thank you for your responses, I know I need to take care of myself and I do have good intentions.  I know that therapy would be helpful.  Before I met my husband I was so much more in tune with myself.  I was a massage therapist and was also interested in polarity therapy & herbology, natural healing, meditation , yoga... . But my husband slowly eroded my interests as well as my spirit in general.  He would tell me how that stuff doesn't work & he didn't want me to be touching other people & that I shouldn't want too.

I am trying to get back into the routine of doing yoga and meditation for relaxation and to center myself.

Good for you. :-)

[Smileypants]

For a while I did have my own room upstairs but he lured me back down stairs, saying that if I didn't spend so much time upstairs that we wouldn't be having problems... .  And I don't take responsibility for anything (I am supposed to be responsible for everything, you see).

[Smileypants]

Sex has also become a rate of exchange.  Example: I've been having back pain.  If I will have sex after, he will rub my back.  If I need some money to get something (I needed $8) he will give it to me for the price of a quickie.

[Michelle27]

Sex has also become a rate of exchange.  Example: I've been having back pain.  If I will have sex after, he will rub my back.  If I need some money to get something (I needed $8) he will give it to me for the price of a quickie.

WOW.  This is so abusive. :-(

[JohnLove]

Hello Smileypants, Sorry to hear your relationship has lost its meaning for you. With the right strategy you might be able to reconnect with your husband. I wonder if you were able to validate him enough to convey your feelings on this matter?... .do you really want to?... .it seems like your heart is not in it... .this can be the personal cost when you are living for everybody else.  :'(

Stopping by the house yesterday to pick up something on my way out with girlfriends (it's my turn in the rented room now) he actually had the nerve to say to me that if I want some sex after my night out, I know where to find him and I could stop by on my way home.  SERIOUSLY?

Men can view sex very differently to women. Although I find the emotional connection very important (most of the time) many men can seemingly forego this most important element. I think your partner felt a need for you and that was his way of expressing it without exposing himself to full frontal rejection. Just a guess. 

For a while I did have my own room upstairs but he lured me back down stairs, saying that if I didn't spend so much time upstairs that we wouldn't be having problems... .  And I don't take responsibility for anything (I am supposed to be responsible for everything, you see).

He broke down your boundary with a tidbit of truth. This is the FOG at work. You are not responsible for everything. We all know that. He knows it too. If he wants to pretend otherwise he is only fooling himself at this point.

Sex has also become a rate of exchange.  Example: I've been having back pain.  If I will have sex after, he will rub my back.  If I need some money to get something (I needed $8) he will give it to me for the price of a quickie.

This is not ideal. Sure, genuine Love is give and take but sex is not a transaction. Your intimate self is surely worth a lot more than a back rub or $8... .this is devaluing.  :'(

[Smileypants]

 An update. I am 6 weeks pregnant.  We had one good day.  Then this morning we got into it.  He doesn't like that I don't "wool my sons ___" whenever he does something that my husband doesn't like.  I don't believe ___ woopin is okay.  I would never woop a kids ___ ever.  Most of my sons issues stem from the way my husband treats him.  I been thinking about getting out for a long time and now I'm pregnant.  Today he was "raising his voice" at me and following me calling me a coward for walking away. And I said I was going some where I feel safe.  Now he's mocking me "better go so you feel safe   I am at a loss and feel no hope for this ever working.

[Mike-X]

Have you read the lessons on boundaries in relationships?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

[Mike-X]

Have you read the lessons on boundaries in relationships?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

I was looking for this one (but the other is a good source too):

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

[OnceConfused]

it sounds like with the pregnancy , you are stuck with him for awhile now. Since leaving is not an option , then you will have to learn how to stay but with new COPING strategy.

The strategy is first of all you have to regain yourself, reclaim who you are or were. Find your support structure (friends & family). Typically, BPD will try to ISOLATE systematically so as making it easier to control you. I found myself slowly isolated from all my supporting sources as BPD did come up with this or that reason for not doing things with people i know.

Determine what made you happy in the years past. Go back to do those again, if you like doing massage then do it.

Don't react to whatever BPD says. If you react to what they say then it is like pouring fuel into the fire. Ultimately, the one that got hurt is you, emotionally and psychologically. When he says something just stare at his nose, focus on how the skin on the nose looks - then you don't pay attention to what he says. Don't look to him for words of affirmation or as the person who can make you happy, look at him and see in him, not as your partner, but as a child who is suffering, as a person whose ___s do stink like all of us, as a person who just is in pain all the time.