I wish I could understand

[dobie]

OK so after I sent her a two line love poem seven months out  she replied with

"I'm sorry I hurt you nothing I can say will make you feel better but you are a great guy with a lot to offer and you will meet a girl who loves you and makes you very happy

We just were not meant to be and deep down you know that "

Typical response no actual accountability and blame shifting

Regardless I then sent a few more emails telling her I wanted to be friends and take up her offer early on in the BU

She replied

"I don't think its a good idea if we meet to soon for both of us sorry"

This triggered me and I sent email after email telling her I still loved herlove songs  etc (dumb)

Even tried to ring her but she hung up and blocked me .

I sent an email asking her to just say "stop" if she does not want me to email and I've had no reply it may be she has already blocked my email or something else ?

She told me bro before i emailed her she still cares about me and wishes me the best . of course she was still raging about various things and how most of the r/s was crap admited i was her bf and always there for her and that I'm not the sole reason for her unhappiness  .but he shut her down with logic and truth. She  swore up and down she didn't leave me for another man (unlikely previous mo) and that she is without a bf (unlikley) found her on dating sites two months out and that she would find it hard to find a man like me to match her on an intelectual level she even apologised for not leaving me a year sooner (she said she was a coward) and wrecking my bday as well as taking me to wedding venues just before the BU this was after my bro had her on the spot when I mentioned it via phone she just went silent .

She said the reason she went NC was because if she had spoken to or seen me she would have come back for a few more years what the heck?

Any idea what's going on in her head guys ?

I really want to see her one last time clear the air and put this behind me even if she does not want me as a lover or friend I need to meet her say my piece and forgive and forget .

Not sure what the best way to procede is

[fromheeltoheal]

Any idea what's going on in her head guys ?

It needs to stop being about what's going on in her head and start being what's going on in yours dobie.  You've raised this exact same issue before and you've been around here for 4 months now, and it's time to start shifting the focus from her to you; I know it's difficult, going from a sliver of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, but it's called detaching.

I really want to see her one last time clear the air and put this behind me even if she does not want me as a lover or friend I need to meet her say my piece and forgive and forget .

You won't hear her sincerely forgive, you won't forget, and the air will only get foggier, not clear.  You know that.  Time to start working on creating your own closure, which is actually more powerful in the end.  Take care of you!

[dobie]

Any idea what's going on in her head guys ?

It needs to stop being about what's going on in her head and start being what's going on in yours dobie.  You've raised this exact same issue before and you've been around here for 4 months now, and it's time to start shifting the focus from her to you; I know it's difficult, going from a sliver of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, but it's called detaching.

I really want to see her one last time clear the air and put this behind me even if she does not want me as a lover or friend I need to meet her say my piece and forgive and forget .

You won't hear her sincerely forgive, you won't forget, and the air will only get foggier, not clear.  You know that.  Time to start working on creating your own closure, which is actually more powerful in the end.  Take care of you!

I know bro I know I'm seeing a T I'm doing everything I can but I have so many unanswered questions so much fog . so many conflicting things she said and did to process and so much rage

Plus is she BPD or just immature am I forgiving a mentally I'll person or is she just evil

I'm in a severe depression I can't stop ruminating , questioning , this was a woman I spent 6 years with was my bf my closest asset and due to marry me this year buy a house we were even deciding kids names and bang I find out she was faking for a year ! Using me  lying and probably cheating .

That she has so much anger and resentment towards me when I did everything I could to keep the r/s alive and be supportive .

That she could just cut off her feelings like a tap and detach to go from idealising me to having zero concern or respect for me .

[valet]

Hey man, sorry that you're going through this. We've all been there before, and it sucks big time.

The biggest thing that I've learned in the last couple of weeks has been that however shifting my emotions can be at times, I am in control of how I act on them. In this situation, I think that you need to be the one that takes control and go full on NC until you can handle interacting with her in a more balanced way, if that is what you truly want. There is no proven route, though. This is just what works best in my own personal experience, to help YOU heal.

What's going on in her head is constantly changing, as is the case with a person with BPD. Her thoughts will not stabilize until she either a.) finds a new supply, or b.) seeks help. In case b., this might not even be effective.

It is natural for you to feel these emotions, this confusion, etc. You suffered a pretty big loss, and it is a long road to recovery. Personally, the belief that time and space will heal my wounds has given me strength, and the knowledge that I am truly the one controlling how I behave provides a very strong personal frame to live by.

Slowly, you will adopt these ideals. You just need time, and space. So NC if you can manage.

[dobie]

Hey man, sorry that you're going through this. We've all been there before, and it sucks big time.

The biggest thing that I've learned in the last couple of weeks has been that however shifting my emotions can be at times, I am in control of how I act on them. In this situation, I think that you need to be the one that takes control and go full on NC until you can handle interacting with her in a more balanced way, if that is what you truly want. There is no proven route, though. This is just what works best in my own personal experience, to help YOU heal.

What's going on in her head is constantly changing, as is the case with a person with BPD. Her thoughts will not stabilize until she either a.) finds a new supply, or b.) seeks help. In case b., this might not even be effective.

It is natural for you to feel these emotions, this confusion, etc. You suffered a pretty big loss, and it is a long road to recovery. Personally, the belief that time and space will heal my wounds has given me strength, and the knowledge that I am truly the one controlling how I behave provides a very strong personal frame to live by.

Slowly, you will adopt these ideals. You just need time, and space. So NC if you can manage.

Thanks valet I went NC for six months It has not helped much  

I've lost pretty much everything I cared about as well as my trust most days I just want to sleep forever

[fromheeltoheal]

Any idea what's going on in her head guys ?

It needs to stop being about what's going on in her head and start being what's going on in yours dobie.  You've raised this exact same issue before and you've been around here for 4 months now, and it's time to start shifting the focus from her to you; I know it's difficult, going from a sliver of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, but it's called detaching.

I really want to see her one last time clear the air and put this behind me even if she does not want me as a lover or friend I need to meet her say my piece and forgive and forget .

You won't hear her sincerely forgive, you won't forget, and the air will only get foggier, not clear.  You know that.  Time to start working on creating your own closure, which is actually more powerful in the end.  Take care of you!

I know bro I know I'm seeing a T I'm doing everything I can but I have so many unanswered questions so much fog . so many conflicting things she said and did to process .

Plus is she BPD or just immature am I forgiving a mentally I'll person or is she just evil

Good for you for seeing a therapist!  That's you taking the steps to take care of yourself.

so many conflicting things she said and did to process .

Borderlines have an unstable sense of self, meaning who she "is" to herself changes, which has a ripple effect into how she sees the world and everyone in it; those change too.  It's impossible to "figure out", except to just recognize and accept it as unpredictable and back off emotionally, or your mental heath will suffer.  You probably noticed.  It is what it is, and we need to stay emotionally clear of it; you're disconnected from the source so you can process, but don't fixate on reconnecting, that would be the equivalent of going back to square one, only worse.

Plus is she BPD or just immature am I forgiving a mentally I'll person or is she just evil

The only thing that matters is if the behaviors were acceptable to you or not.  They weren't, because you're here talking about the negative effect they're having on you.  It's better to focus on forgiving yourself for now, you can think about forgiving her later.

[cosmonaut]

I really want to see her one last time clear the air and put this behind me even if she does not want me as a lover or friend I need to meet her say my piece and forgive and forget .

Not sure what the best way to procede is

Unfortunately, I don't think that you are going to be able to get this, dobie.  I do agree with fromheeltoheal that you are going to have to seek closure on your own.  I'm sorry for this, and I know it sucks.  I've been through this same experience, and I realize how hard this is.  This is a brutally hard task emotionally.  It really is.  But it's the only way out.

I think that may of us have already tried to explain what we think she might be experiencing and why she might be feeling the way that she is.  Ultimately, we can't know for certain - we can only give our best guess based on what we know about the disorder and our shared experiences.  The only way that you are going to be able to get closure in this, dobie, is to provide it yourself.  She CAN'T give it to you.  She is not capable of it.  You can be as angry as you want with her about that, and I would certainly understand, but she still can't do it.  And you are doing yourself a disservice by resisting that.  You are going to have to provide your own closure here.  Everyone here is ready to support you in that.  We all know how hard it is to do.

[dobie]

I just feel like my life has no meaning all my goals were our goals I realise this is not healthy Im chasing a promotion at work , I'm reaching out to family and friends , posting on the boards , dating other woman very casually , seeing a T taking care of my disabled pops  I even did a sponsored swim for charity  . reading books on mindfulness and self help etc

But I am so adrift without her its hurts every day I miss her terribly .

It feels like total betrayal and abondanment she even publicly posted pics of her in the states she knew I always wanted to go there with her  :'(

(I know I know no snooping on FB)

Cosmo : thanks bro I know your right I know she does not even really know why she left her answer was "bickering " and resentment over  "money" the last showing how unhealthy she is .

I'm doing everything I can but it still feels like I'm walking through hades . my T says I've suffered emotional trauma as a child I have maturity issues  and that I also have deep seated rage and a life long battle with anxiety /depression  so I know I'm not a bill of healthy myself even before we met .

[Blimblam]

my autocorrect hates ur name.  The thing that stands out to me is that your are doing all these things to prove to some imaginary figure that you are ok and you are worthy.  When you do that you are giving away your sovereign power over yourself. To quote fightclub, "self improvement is masterbation." Also, "stop trying to control everything and just let go!"  What I mean is by doing all these things to convince yourself you are whatever you want to envision yourself as because of some sort of internal checklist that would signify that it is leading you away from yourself.  You gotta let it fall apart and submit to the painful reality of the situation. That pain is real terrrifyingly real you can go on denying it and trying to fluff up some alternate reality or stay with it and learn to accept it because that is your center that is your core.

[cosmonaut]

There is a profound amount of insight in your last post, dobie.  I think you are on the right track in many ways, and your T is helping you to see many of the reasons why this is such a devastating experience for you.  You are starting to see the underlying reasons why this is so much more than a breakup.  Keep going.  This is still very early for you, but you are on the right path.

Keep posting here.  You are doing the right thing in reaching out to family, friends, and this forum.  Keep doing that.  Everyone needs support in an experience as gut wrenching as this.  You are undeniably going through a miserable, brutally hard experience.  I feel your words acutely, dobie, because I have felt all of the things that you are feeling.  Many of us here have.  We understand.

You are right that she probably doesn't really understand why she left.  She probably does feel really confused and conflicted and deeply ashamed with herself.  She may even be blaming you, because she can't understand why else she is feeling so hurt and painful about the relationship.  She assumes that it must be your fault she feels this bad.  We must remember that she is sick and her behavior is deeply disordered.  You're right that she is unhealthy.  BPD is a serious mental disorder.

Keep going, dobie.  You are on the right track even if you don't feel the payoff yet.  It will come.  Keep going.

[dobie]

my autocorrect hates ur name.  The thing that stands out to me is that your are doing all these things to prove to some imaginary figure that you are ok and you are worthy.  When you do that you are giving away your sovereign power over yourself. To quote fightclub, "self improvement is masterbation." Also, "stop trying to control everything and just let go!"  What I mean is by doing all these things to convince yourself you are whatever you want to envision yourself as because of some sort of internal checklist that would signify that it is leading you away from yourself.  You gotta let it fall apart and submit to the painful reality of the situation. That pain is real terrrifyingly real you can go on denying it and trying to fluff up some alternate reality or stay with it and learn to accept it because that is your center that is your core.

Blimblam if I don't do the work I will collapse into an even more severe depression suicidal thoughts are almost daily for me I had to do a contract with my T if I'm about to do something to call her .

Yes I'm looking for distractions because the pain is ever present and overbearing it is so bad I can't wash sometimes for days , eat , tidy the house think etc bro

[Blimblam]

I can relate completely. 

My advice is to just set up a situation where you are completely free of responsibility for a few months.  Then let the nervous breakdown happen.  It might be the most important thing that has happened in your life.

[Blimblam]

Also a recomended reading list would be the search fr the real self the personality disorders of our age by James masterson.  He talked about BPD and npd.  But he talkes a lot about a "fales self," to better understand the ideas of the false self and real self look to structuralism and post structuralism.  The ideas of Saussure and Lacan will probably be the most immediately pertinent. Then disipline and punishment by michel Foucault. 

[dobie]

I can relate completely. 

My advice is to just set up a situation where you are completely free of responsibility for a few months.  Then let the nervous breakdown happen.  It might be the most important thing that has happened in your life.

That's what I'm trying to prevent with my T and my medds last depressive psychotic break I had lasted years . I can't I have a sick father who needs me bills to pay etc I don't have the "luxury" of madness  

[dobie]

There is a profound amount of insight in your last post, dobie.  I think you are on the right track in many ways, and your T is helping you to see many of the reasons why this is such a devastating experience for you.  You are starting to see the underlying reasons why this is so much more than a breakup.  Keep going.  This is still very early for you, but you are on the right path.

Keep posting here.  You are doing the right thing in reaching out to family, friends, and this forum.  Keep doing that.  Everyone needs support in an experience as gut wrenching as this.  You are undeniably going through a miserable, brutally hard experience.  I feel your words acutely, dobie, because I have felt all of the things that you are feeling.  Many of us here have.  We understand.

You are right that she probably doesn't really understand why she left.  She probably does feel really confused and conflicted and deeply ashamed with herself.  She may even be blaming you, because she can't understand why else she is feeling so hurt and painful about the relationship.  She assumes that it must be your fault she feels this bad.  We must remember that she is sick and her behavior is deeply disordered.  You're right that she is unhealthy.  BPD is a serious mental disorder.

Keep going, dobie.  You are on the right track even if you don't feel the payoff yet.  It will come.  Keep going.

Thanks Cosmo I really appreciate your posts everyone enlightens me in some way and I'm sorry for you and anyone else who has or had to go through this

I'd buy you all a beer or 10  

Yes like my T said this could have happened with any girl I.e the emphasis is on me and my past my childhood my life .

I just wished I knew if she was sick for sure that way its like a form of absolution oo its not mime or her fault she is mental .

[dobie]

Also a recomended reading list would be the search fr the real self the personality disorders of our age by James masterson.  He talked about BPD and npd.  But he talkes a lot about a "fales self," to better understand the ideas of the false self and real self look to structuralism and post structuralism.  The ideas of Saussure and Lacan will probably be the most immediately pertinent. Then disipline and punishment by michel Foucault.  

Thanks blimblam will look on Amazon now  

[AwakenedOne]

Cosmo : thanks bro I know your right I know she does not even really know why she left her answer was "bickering " and resentment over  "money" the last showing how unhealthy she is .

People with BPD know what they are doing. As I see it, they have something similar to "extreme tendencies" to act in certain ways. Of course it's a lot more complicated than that though. Through therapy those tendencies are addressed and diminish over years to those that actually care enough about themselves and others to seek out help. Some members here were fortunate enough not to deal with a BPD ex who made very calculated decisions/punishments.

Even if yours wasn't a BPD relationship, she could now be just saying BS excuses to you as to not hurt your feelings. That's why it seems to you that she is so mixed up.

Sorry your hurting.

No contact leads to peace.

[Blimblam]

Call on family this is like an emergency situation. Your psyche is breaking down to heal itself.

[cosmonaut]

People with BPD know what they are doing.

I agree with you that mentally she knows, but emotionally she doesn't.  She knows she's behaving in this manner, but she can't understand why.  The behaviors are a reaction to emotions she can neither understand nor control.

[LimboFL]

Dobie, before I begin, I just spent probably the most difficult week of the b/u the last 5 days. More tears than I would like to admit to shedding. So what I am about to say does not come from a place of cold hard lack of understanding, but rather from a desire to possibly help.

The first thing I ask is what is your worth, Dobie? How much do you value your own existence and value on the planet? Does your ex have more value than you? It certainly seems so.

To take a different approach, if your goal is to establish any sort of relationship with your ex, which I would advise against completely, whether it be friend of lover, the only way you will be able to do so is if you raise your own value, to appreciate your own worth. Whether we are speaking of an exBPD relationship or a completely standard non relationship between two people, sending poems and asking for answers does only one thing, devalue you!

You cannot make yourself more attractive to your ex by, forgive me for being blunt, groveling, which is what I hear you doing by sending poems to your ex. Please do not see this as a mock, because as mentioned, I have been crushed by the loss of my ex, whom I know is absolutely the last person I want to be with but whom I still love deeply. I understand how you feel and why you are doing what you are doing, but there is simply no worse way to go about trying to reach your ex, BPD or not.

Do you know what will make your ex reflect on her decision? Seeing you place your value higher than hers, by at least acting like she doesn't matter to you, that you are so over her that you are happy in your world, with your new chapter and life. This shouldn't be something that you proactively try to impress upon her but rather something that you actually execute. There is zero evidence that by doing so and NOT advertising it that she will sense it but there are enough weird stories on these boards to say that if she is the type to reach back out to you, she will somehow sense that you have completely changed course, for the better.

Again, I will be slightly blunt here, but while you may tell us that you are simply looking for friendship, it is clear that you are using that as a cover for the fact that you can't let go and want her back. Again, I understand completely and am not judging you for it but maybe the first step is to actually be honest with yourself. The next step, should you want a second chance with her, is to let go, detach, move on, make yourself better, heal, try to have fun. This is what she will notice, this is what MIGHT draw her back to you. Poems and attempts to get her to succumb by trying to appeal to her heart, is not going to achieve anything but pushing her further away. BPD or not, sadly, the game of attraction does have certain rules that no matter how much you call BS on, are tried and true. The very last thing a woman who has walked away from a man finds attractive is a man who is broken and speak of not being able to live without her. It just doesn't work. What does though, if there is any chance is when a woman sees her ex not care about her, not care if she is in his life.

As mentioned, in my view (again I love my ex deeply and miss her) you would be making a mistake trying to maintain any sort of relationship with your ex. However, only you can decide so if your goal is to establish any sort of relationship with her, you absolutely, unequivocally, have to establish your position of power. You have to drive her to want to hang with you with you because you have returned to the person that originally attracted her.

If there is any driver to force you to get out of the dark place you are in, then use the re-attraction driver to force yourself to become that strong, independent and much more attractive person.  This should not be done for her but for you. It has to be real. Otherwise, if you make any changes strictly for her and not you, then you will get nowhere, she will smell it.

Trust me, your independent "I don't give a f&&& about you" demeanor is the only way to push her towards you rather than further away. If you make it real, then you are in the position of power and you decide, after everything, if she is really the one you want, as a friend or lover.  

[dobie]

Limbo I know your right I've never been a "pussy before "


Should I text her please get lost then forgot all the poems I was drunk and just go NC

[Blimblam]

Dobie

Your asking for permission.  We are not the authority over you so you don't need our permission.  On some level you know this is not even about her.  A part of your psyche makes it about her as a way to try to make sense of what's going on internally.  When you attach that inner conflict to your ex you will continue to destroy any chance you have with her because what's going on within you is a breakdown of your false self.  The more you make it about her the more you will encounter an uncontrollable compulsion to push her away if she does not validate some sort of idea of yourself that would comfort you anoungst this confusion.

You need you time mang!  Time to let your false self implode free of consequences. 

[LimboFL]

Dobie, you should do nothing, nothing. Go NC. You will not ever gain her respect by communicating in any form. It is possible that she might expect it and if she doesn't get what she expects then you might set in motion her questioning why she hasn't heard from you. Not doing what is expected will be the strongest signal you can send. She will see right through any attempt to pretend that you are acting tough and telling her to get lost. When my exBPD broke up with me, after 3 months in, I was deeply hurt but I went silent for three months. She didn't know that I was deeply hurt and sad.

Three months in I sent her a small hand written note saying that I thought it was worth a second chance (our relationship) and she responded a week later and we were together for 3 1/2 ( very difficult) year after. The bottom line is that while our ex's might be pwBPD, they are also human and while there are no guarantees either way, going silent is the only way to plant a seed of questioning. In my case, I asked my ex to please never contact me again, because for as much as I love her and miss her, I meant it. In your case, though, you don't. Again there are no guarantees but there is simply not question that whether it be to try to get her back or for you own mental health, getting yourself back to the old, better you, is the best possible path to take.

Your complete and total absence will be the only way to possibly get her to think about you in a positive light or at least wonder. It is sad that this is human nature but unfortunately, we have to play by the rules that have been set by mankind. So you have to play along or lose.

[LimboFL]

BTW, Dobie, you aren't being a "pussy". You love her as I do my ex. If I could have her without the disorder, I would want to be with her. I love her as you love your ex. That doesn't make us weak or pathetic. This is love not some game. No one, me in particular, judge you for the way you feel or how you are reacting to this devastating loss. My responses were not driven by some feeling that you were not maning up, not at all. If I felt that way, then I would have told you that I spent the entire week crying my eyes out, because I too love and miss my ex. There is so much that I don't and won't ever miss but there is plenty that I do and I would give anything to be able to have what I do miss back.

I only want to help, not judge. If you need that last short to be sure, then follow my advise, because following the current methods will only push her further away.

My heart goes out to you. Stay strong.

[dobie]

Thanks limbo so after all the mush I sent best to go complete NC or just say please dont contact me again .

I've been so nice about this she needs a telling off (which she was expecting )

She is a bully and responds accordingly nice u are less respect etc

[myself]

Dobie, blimblam's right when saying this is a time of your psyche breaking down to help heal yourself. You're not sinking, you're bouncing back. As you're right, saying it's "so many conflicting things" (which is a good description of the BPD situation). It's a complicated process to get through, becoming extra overwhelming at times due to how emotional it is, how tied into our dreams for the future and etc. As far as taking it day by day: I remember having to tell myself while at work, "Later, you'll cry later... . Read more about it, stare at the floor, whatever, but later." Setting aside the time as I would for a hobby or exercise. Finding that the more I went within, not running from it or doing things to make it worse, the more I was eventually able to make sense of/let go of. The more comfortable I was with myself again, the less shook up. More open to other possibilities. Spending time trying to push her away or pull her back in won't be as worthwhile as using it to get closer with yourself. Which you're already doing. Keep doing that!

[cosmonaut]

Thanks limbo so after all the mush I sent best to go complete NC or just say please dont contact me again .

She's made clear that she doesn't want to communicate, dobie.  You need to respect that.  For you too.  You need to heal and I think everyone has given you good advice in this thread.  Let her go.  If she returns you can decide what you want to do.  For now, focus on healing you.  You had some great insights about yourself above.  Keep going with that.   

[AwakenedOne]

Thanks limbo so after all the mush I sent best to go complete NC or just say please dont contact me again.

[dobie]

Its so  frustrating why is it so damm hard to let go !

I think I know the answer its the solution that's the problem .

[cosmonaut]

It is very hard.  But everyone is here to help support you in that goal.

What can you do for YOU this weekend?