Lost more than my Ex.

[DyingLove]

Okay, so the exBPDgf has two female children.  One is 21 and the other 9.  Well for the longest time, the 21yo and I talked on the phone, texted, she pokes me etx.

I sent her a text the other day (in fact this wasn't the first since the b/u) telling her that I miss her terribly.  No response.  So, thinking she may have changed her phone number, I messaged her on FB.  I'm going to try to put the responses here:  (hope it works).

ME: I'm curious as to why you don't respond to my texts.  :)id you change your number or something?  You don't give me the impression that you've started hating me too?  Let me know please.

HER: While we used to talk all the time I feel that because of what happened between you and my mom it's weird.

ME: I know. I know. I know.  Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years.

ME: I understand your stance though.  Some people screw up life for more than just themselves.

ME: Just remember I never abandoned anyone... .not you not them.  My feelings, although devastated, are still there in whole or part for the people I love.  You'll understand as you get older.  Unfriend me if you like.

ME: You always said you thought of me like your step day.  I thought of you like my own flesh and blood. My daughter. Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me and my feelings for you and M.  Call it jealousy if you will, even your mother didn't like the fact that I parented M better than she did... .nor did she EVER like the closeness between you and I.  Just imagine my devastation when it was all taken away from me, not by my own choice at all.  I just want you to understand that bad things happen to good people, I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares.  Just know that I always stood by you and I'll always miss and love you.  Your mothers had made her choice, whether or not she realizes what she did, she still did it and unless she gets help, the replacements and recycling in her life will always continue and her abandonment issues will be her demise.  She had two months before I left to think and try to get her thoughts together. Nothing changed... .she just painted me blacker and blacker.  I love her just as I always did, that won't go away, this was supposed to be forever. What her idea of forever is, well, I guess no one will ever know.  I had to get this out of my system to you, because as weird as you feel, you are/were a very major part of my life that is now gone too.  It's like the death of a loved one.  So horrible.


Up to this minute, this is all there was.  Am I wrong for being crushed again and setback.  :)oes this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .I guess it's "here we go again!"  :)o I really need to cut off every last person that had anything to do with the ex to regain my sanity and level headedness?  So tired and so confused.

[valet]

Man, that's tough. Sorry to hear.

I don't think that you have to cut everyone related to your life with your ex out of the picture to recover, but it might be easier for you to do so in the short term. I think, or at least in my own experience, that over time our thought processes make slight adjustments that allow us to have different relationships with these people. In other words, relationships that aren't majorly defined by the person (your ex) that was largely responsible for them.

Yes, her children are in your life, but slowly, with enough effort, I think that you will drop the association of them as her's. Of course they are her kids, but everyone is someone's kid. As long as everyone (primary you) understands the new boundary there, it would certainly be more than possible to stay in touch.

[zundertowz]

I think if you want a relationship with these kids you should probably keep it as positive as possible.  Thats there mother and you should probably keep the drama between you and her... .shes a 21 year old girl who probably has alot going on.  The first time my ex and I broke up I contacted her children cause I knew one was having a hard time she was furious.

[DyingLove]

Man, that's tough. Sorry to hear.

I don't think that you have to cut everyone related to your life with your ex out of the picture to recover, but it might be easier for you to do so in the short term. I think, or at least in my own experience, that over time our thought processes make slight adjustments that allow us to have different relationships with these people. In other words, relationships that aren't majorly defined by the person (your ex) that was largely responsible for them.

Yes, her children are in your life, but slowly, with enough effort, I think that you will drop the association of them as her's. Of course they are her kids, but everyone is someone's kid. As long as everyone (primary you) understands the new boundary there, it would certainly be more than possible to stay in touch.

Thanks valet.  In a sense, I want to extinguish the flame of them too. Only because I have no control. What I mean is this:  If she was actually my daughter, I couldn't Un-Daughter her. That makes for a different kind of bond.  But to be in my situation and not be able to control the fact that someone might say: "oh well, too bad for him." makes it very painful. So to get rid of the pain, get rid of everyone sounds so darn good!  But once I were to get rid of them... .I'd breathe and then say: NOW WHAT. So I'd be right back there again facing my demons.  It still seems that the only way out is N/C, Time, Prayer, Talking to fellow sufferers and supporters.  It's important for future reasons to NEVER loose track of those that were there for you either.  People need help... .you may be tired, you may be busy, you may be in the middle of a meal, but when I've been in pain beyond comprehension, I've always appreciated and needed people to stop drop and roll for me.  I've needed people so badly this year that I just don't know how to describe it right now.  Since February, the people that love and have supported me are too numerous for me to even remember them all without resorting back to my notes.  People have sent me $$$ to save my butt and get me out of that killer situation.  I think about how I couldn't get out fast enough, how I had to sneak to leave without her there... .how I couldn't let on to the fact that I was planning my escape.  All that stuff... .and once I was reprived of death by BPD, I and now wondering how to get it all back.  I know... .it's the crazy stuff that we all ponder at this stage.  Unfortunately, lots of my time is spent alone... .lonely actually.  If I get into a position to be social, or go somewhere, it takes me maybe 3 hours to aclimate to new surroundings. I always feel like I am in a fog and little things that came so naturally take so much thought now. Even things like filling the car (my sons) with fuel at the gas pump... .which CC to use, what code it's gonna ask me for, receipts... .etx.  Things that didn't need thinking in 2011 need thought now.  And I'm going to get over this?  So that is the concensus.  I gotta believe what you guys tell me, you've been there.

Thank you Suzn, for fixing the names I left in out of carelessness.  :-)

Zundertowz, I agree.  I've nothing to do with the 9yo anymore... .but the 21yo has been thru hell of her own.  When my ex was with her first husband, obviously from what I've heard, this is when signs of "crazyness" started appearing.  I'm not even talking about what the ex went thru as a child, but the husband used to play "subliminal" cassette tapes while she (21 yo) was sleeping. THis is obviously when she was about 4 or 5.  Tapes where the mention of who loves who was emphasized... .and other really wild stuff.  They made her get therapy, for what reason I am not entirely sure of, but she had confided in me about MANY things... .and how her mom (my ex) and her dad never even talked or were close in any way.  She worked during the day and he worked at night... .AND THEN, he found a co-worker that he got close with and they got an apt. and there were lies and cheating... .and then finally divorce.  My ex seemed to be devastated by this, and hated his new woman... .whom I have met and talked to and gotten friendly in a normal way. So the older daughter is no stranger to what has happened or the terms of all the mental inconsistencies that have and are happening.

NOW, the 9yo is the product of the ex also, along with a father that was a criminal and in prison when the ex and him met.  The thing is that she didn't know about his prison sentence until the day they filed for divorce!  He was in prison for 10 years and NEVER divulged any info to her or anyone else.  They wondered why he had no photos of his earlier years.  She was/is intimidated and controlled by him before, during and after our r/s and b/u.  See, this story is very complex.  I'm trying to deal with my aching heart and mind, but actually the reminiscing of what was does put many other things into perspective.  It goes on and on... .and I didn't even get into the ex's step father and step mother... .drugs, beatings, and other lousy things to grow up in the midst of.  Oh, and then there is me that gets the steel toed boot with spike right up there into my heart.

[Inside]

Hang on DyingLove, and thanks for sharing your communications and feelings…  My uBPDxgf of 3 years had two sons.  The oldest and I, in his early twenties, got along well.  The youngest lived with his father (too much drama with mom). 

I’ve daughters in their early 20’s, and though they look like adults ... .it’s really something to learn of their depth of fears.  That poor 21 year daughter of your ex.  I’m reminded of how my BPx’s boys seemed a little standoffish or dismissive of our r/s … until I realized they’d seen this before…  I came to love the ex’s mom, and close to her brothers, too, and would always hear how they’d missed me upon a recycle.  Now, I’d ask about them before I would the BP!  So I know what you’re feeling - loss in every direction... . 

Just as I try not to totally unload my disgust for ‘their mother’ on my daughters, I’d try not to do the same with your BP’s daughter, though it appears a little late.  Poor kid/s, and Hell is for children…  I’d let her daughter know you’re there, then prove that’s not a backdoor way of either communicating with or downing her ‘mom.’  I’m sure she’ll need help or advice in the future, and how wonderful to remain a positive element in anyone’s life.  She’ll no doubt mention her mom, but this is no longer about her mom, or it shouldn’t be. 

We gave our all, taking in their family and life problems as would any good mate.  We didn’t give up, our BP’s did.  It may take nearly everything we've got to stabilize, but let it.  Concentrate on You - for a switch!  You deserve your attention, too!  Let those you mean something to come looking for you - it’s a good way to find out who really cares.  And once you’re healed - you’ll be there to do the same for them, and they know it.

Life’s not over, it’s just twisted into a massive knot!  Step back and plan your strategy, and see if it doesn't begin to unravel some on it’s own... .  Look for an appreciate simplicity, especially after emerging from such chaos.  Settle ~ then tell us how it’s done

[DyingLove]

Hang on DyingLove, and thanks for sharing your communications and feelings…  My uBPDxgf of 3 years had two sons.  The oldest and I, in his early twenties, got along well.  The youngest lived with his father (too much drama with mom). 

I’ve daughters in their early 20’s, and though they look like adults ... .it’s really something to learn of their depth of fears.  That poor 21 year daughter of your ex.  I’m reminded of how my BPx’s boys seemed a little standoffish or dismissive of our r/s … until I realized they’d seen this before…  I came to love the ex’s mom, and close to her brothers, too, and would always hear how they’d missed me upon a recycle.  Now, I’d ask about them before I would the BP!  So I know what you’re feeling - loss in every direction... . 

Just as I try not to totally unload my disgust for ‘their mother’ on my daughters, I’d try not to do the same with your BP’s daughter, though it appears a little late.  Poor kid/s, and Hell is for children…  I’d let her daughter know you’re there, then prove that’s not a backdoor way of either communicating with or downing her ‘mom.’  I’m sure she’ll need help or advice in the future, and how wonderful to remain a positive element in anyone’s life.  She’ll no doubt mention her mom, but this is no longer about her mom, or it shouldn’t be. 

We gave our all, taking in their family and life problems as would any good mate.  We didn’t give up, our BP’s did.  It may take nearly everything we've got to stabilize, but let it.  Concentrate on You - for a switch!  You deserve your attention, too!  Let those you mean something to come looking for you - it’s a good way to find out who really cares.  And once you’re healed - you’ll be there to do the same for them, and they know it.

Life’s not over, it’s just twisted into a massive knot!  Step back and plan your strategy, and see if it doesn't begin to unravel some on it’s own... .  Look for an appreciate simplicity, especially after emerging from such chaos.  Settle ~ then tell us how it’s done

Gosh that was good inside.  I particularly liked the way you said it's all twisted into a massive knot.  Couldn't have put it any better!

Someone else mentioned (besides up above) that I shouldn't have layed so much on the Girl.  They also shared with me: "right and wrong are very subjective.  We all do what we think is right in the moment... .perhaps regret it later, but... ."   This is very true.  My supporting friend is very helpful.  She tells it like it is and I really appreciate her for it... .amidst her own problems too.

I feel that I've lost my focus since the ex's Birthday yesterday. I got really obsessed over it... .I was letting anger run my day, as well as other aspects of how I think.  I either have to let God handle it or handle it myself.  It doesn't work if you interfere with Gods actions.  I felt so much better when I gave it all up to him... .and then I got "cocky" and tried to take care of certain things myself (in my own mind to boot!)  So, I'm trying to calm down again.  I can't change the course of this river... .I can't even swim.  So I'm just going to breathe deep and re-focus as best I can.  But you haven't seen the last of me!  (... .of course you haven't)

[jhkbuzz]

Okay, so the exBPDgf has two female children.  One is 21 and the other 9.  Well for the longest time, the 21yo and I talked on the phone, texted, she pokes me etx.

I sent her a text the other day (in fact this wasn't the first since the b/u) telling her that I miss her terribly.  No response.  So, thinking she may have changed her phone number, I messaged her on FB.  I'm going to try to put the responses here:  (hope it works).

ME: I'm curious as to why you don't respond to my texts.  :)id you change your number or something?  You don't give me the impression that you've started hating me too?  Let me know please.

HER: While we used to talk all the time I feel that because of what happened between you and my mom it's weird.

ME: I know. I know. I know.  Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years.

ME: I understand your stance though.  Some people screw up life for more than just themselves.

ME: Just remember I never abandoned anyone... .not you not them.  My feelings, although devastated, are still there in whole or part for the people I love.  You'll understand as you get older.  Unfriend me if you like.

ME: You always said you thought of me like your step day.  I thought of you like my own flesh and blood. My daughter. Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me and my feelings for you and M.  Call it jealousy if you will, even your mother didn't like the fact that I parented M better than she did... .nor did she EVER like the closeness between you and I.  Just imagine my devastation when it was all taken away from me, not by my own choice at all.  I just want you to understand that bad things happen to good people, I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares.  Just know that I always stood by you and I'll always miss and love you.  Your mothers had made her choice, whether or not she realizes what she did, she still did it and unless she gets help, the replacements and recycling in her life will always continue and her abandonment issues will be her demise.  She had two months before I left to think and try to get her thoughts together. Nothing changed... .she just painted me blacker and blacker.  I love her just as I always did, that won't go away, this was supposed to be forever. What her idea of forever is, well, I guess no one will ever know.  I had to get this out of my system to you, because as weird as you feel, you are/were a very major part of my life that is now gone too.  It's like the death of a loved one.  So horrible.


Up to this minute, this is all there was.  Am I wrong for being crushed again and setback.  :)oes this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .I guess it's "here we go again!"  :)o I really need to cut off every last person that had anything to do with the ex to regain my sanity and level headedness?  So tired and so confused.

You might not want to hear this... .but I think some of the things you shared with your stepdaughter were inappropriate. 

"Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years."

"Some people screw up life for more than just themselves."

"Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me"

"I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares."

That's a lot to lay on a 21 year old - especially when you're speaking about her mother and her family.  These seem like thoughts to share with an adult friend or a therapist.

Are you aware of the Karpman triangle?  Your tone sounds like that of a victim, your ex and her family sound like the persecutors... .do you expect your SD to be a rescuer?

Trust me, I understand... .I have a SD, and an ex who made horrible choices that led to the end of the r/s.  But I have made it a point to leave my SD out of these kinds of discussions - we'd be talking about her MOTHER - and no one benefits if I start talking poorly about my SD's mother - not my SD, not my ex, and certainly not me. 

I think you may run the risk of losing your SD if you continue on this trajectory.  You do understand that she will side with her mother, don't you?  And it doesn't matter how bat___ crazy mom is - it's still her mother.

[Maternus]

Does this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .

I also had some brief contact with D13 of my ex. That was in the end the hardest part of the breakup, after 3 or 4 months I never cried a tear for my ex, but I cried a lot, because I missed her kids. And I was shocked when I got a whatsapp-message from her daughter. It was a whatsapp-meme she sent to everybody in her outbox.

[DyingLove]

Okay, so the exBPDgf has two female children.  One is 21 and the other 9.  Well for the longest time, the 21yo and I talked on the phone, texted, she pokes me etx.

I sent her a text the other day (in fact this wasn't the first since the b/u) telling her that I miss her terribly.  No response.  So, thinking she may have changed her phone number, I messaged her on FB.  I'm going to try to put the responses here:  (hope it works).

ME: I'm curious as to why you don't respond to my texts.  :)id you change your number or something?  You don't give me the impression that you've started hating me too?  Let me know please.

HER: While we used to talk all the time I feel that because of what happened between you and my mom it's weird.

ME: I know. I know. I know.  Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years.

ME: I understand your stance though.  Some people screw up life for more than just themselves.

ME: Just remember I never abandoned anyone... .not you not them.  My feelings, although devastated, are still there in whole or part for the people I love.  You'll understand as you get older.  Unfriend me if you like.

ME: You always said you thought of me like your step day.  I thought of you like my own flesh and blood. My daughter. Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me and my feelings for you and M.  Call it jealousy if you will, even your mother didn't like the fact that I parented M better than she did... .nor did she EVER like the closeness between you and I.  Just imagine my devastation when it was all taken away from me, not by my own choice at all.  I just want you to understand that bad things happen to good people, I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares.  Just know that I always stood by you and I'll always miss and love you.  Your mothers had made her choice, whether or not she realizes what she did, she still did it and unless she gets help, the replacements and recycling in her life will always continue and her abandonment issues will be her demise.  She had two months before I left to think and try to get her thoughts together. Nothing changed... .she just painted me blacker and blacker.  I love her just as I always did, that won't go away, this was supposed to be forever. What her idea of forever is, well, I guess no one will ever know.  I had to get this out of my system to you, because as weird as you feel, you are/were a very major part of my life that is now gone too.  It's like the death of a loved one.  So horrible.


Up to this minute, this is all there was.  Am I wrong for being crushed again and setback.  :)oes this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .I guess it's "here we go again!"  :)o I really need to cut off every last person that had anything to do with the ex to regain my sanity and level headedness?  So tired and so confused.

You might not want to hear this... .but I think some of the things you shared with your stepdaughter were inappropriate. 

"Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years."

"Some people screw up life for more than just themselves."

"Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me"

"I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares."

That's a lot to lay on a 21 year old - especially when you're speaking about her mother and her family.  These seem like thoughts to share with an adult friend or a therapist.

Are you aware of the Karpman triangle?  Your tone sounds like that of a victim, your ex and her family sound like the persecutors... .do you expect your SD to be a rescuer?

Trust me, I understand... .I have a SD, and an ex who made horrible choices that led to the end of the r/s.  But I have made it a point to leave my SD out of these kinds of discussions - we'd be talking about her MOTHER - and no one benefits if I start talking poorly about my SD's mother - not my SD, not my ex, and certainly not me. 

I think you may run the risk of losing your SD if you continue on this trajectory.  You do understand that she will side with her mother, don't you?  And it doesn't matter how bat___ crazy mom is - it's still her mother.

There's a lot more to the entire situation jhkbuzz... .but you are not wrong... .I shouldn't have said things.  She's not my SD by the way... .just very close... .or was very close.  I'm not going to get into every nook and cranny here... .I can't because there are just too many.  It's like criticizing a raisin for it's wrinkles and then the raising tries to explain the "grape to raisin" process, of course we can't leave out whether it was a california raisin or new york raisin.  I'd just bury myself deeper and deeper.  I am about 98% sure that my relationship with her will only be a series of pokes on fb as it's been since February.  It's just that her lack of "getting back to me" left me totally puzzled. She would usually call me daily on her way to work.  It was mainly to keep her company on the way to work and I didn't mind.  We talked mainly about her girly and work stuff.  It was ok.  After the b/u with her mother, she tried calling me, and I messaged her that I couldn't talk to her because I was all choked up.  So she spoke to her mother and told her that I was being a dick by not talking to her.  Okay... .so I felt really bad about that and the ex made sure to emphasize it to me.  See how this would be digging a deeper and deeper hole?

[DyingLove]

Does this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .

I also had some brief contact with D13 of my ex. That was in the end the hardest part of the breakup, after 3 or 4 months I never cried a tear for my ex, but I cried a lot, because I missed her kids. And I was shocked when I got a whatsapp-message from her daughter. It was a whatsapp-meme she sent to everybody in her outbox.

Well truthfully, as much as I had love for them both, the 21yo was my fav and the 9yo was almost a mirror of the mother and biodad.  Since being out of that house... .I haven't raised my voice, hardly gotten mad at anything too.  The 9yo, which I've been in the household with since about 5yo, was very trying. Always in trouble at school, the center of attention at anytime... .moody and much like the mother.  The bio dad supposedly confessed in 2014 to having adhd when he was a kid.  But he has other issues too.  So if you took a beautiful fish tank, with plants gravel and other decorative items... .including 3 gorgeous fish... .and you shook and shook and shook... .and let it settle... .this was the family I was in.  I chose to stay of course... .better or worse... .but eventually the worse happened.  So am I 100% guilty? 

[jhkbuzz]

Okay, so the exBPDgf has two female children.  One is 21 and the other 9.  Well for the longest time, the 21yo and I talked on the phone, texted, she pokes me etx.

I sent her a text the other day (in fact this wasn't the first since the b/u) telling her that I miss her terribly.  No response.  So, thinking she may have changed her phone number, I messaged her on FB.  I'm going to try to put the responses here:  (hope it works).

ME: I'm curious as to why you don't respond to my texts.  :)id you change your number or something?  You don't give me the impression that you've started hating me too?  Let me know please.

HER: While we used to talk all the time I feel that because of what happened between you and my mom it's weird.

ME: I know. I know. I know.  Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years.

ME: I understand your stance though.  Some people screw up life for more than just themselves.

ME: Just remember I never abandoned anyone... .not you not them.  My feelings, although devastated, are still there in whole or part for the people I love.  You'll understand as you get older.  Unfriend me if you like.

ME: You always said you thought of me like your step day.  I thought of you like my own flesh and blood. My daughter. Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me and my feelings for you and M.  Call it jealousy if you will, even your mother didn't like the fact that I parented M better than she did... .nor did she EVER like the closeness between you and I.  Just imagine my devastation when it was all taken away from me, not by my own choice at all.  I just want you to understand that bad things happen to good people, I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares.  Just know that I always stood by you and I'll always miss and love you.  Your mothers had made her choice, whether or not she realizes what she did, she still did it and unless she gets help, the replacements and recycling in her life will always continue and her abandonment issues will be her demise.  She had two months before I left to think and try to get her thoughts together. Nothing changed... .she just painted me blacker and blacker.  I love her just as I always did, that won't go away, this was supposed to be forever. What her idea of forever is, well, I guess no one will ever know.  I had to get this out of my system to you, because as weird as you feel, you are/were a very major part of my life that is now gone too.  It's like the death of a loved one.  So horrible.


Up to this minute, this is all there was.  Am I wrong for being crushed again and setback.  :)oes this count against my N/C with the ex (I hope not)... .I guess it's "here we go again!"  :)o I really need to cut off every last person that had anything to do with the ex to regain my sanity and level headedness?  So tired and so confused.

You might not want to hear this... .but I think some of the things you shared with your stepdaughter were inappropriate. 

"Honestly, I hate her for what she took away from me.  She took you, M, florida, anyone and everyone I knew there, my plans for the future, EVERYTHING!  She promised FOREVER and that was supposed to last more than 4 years."

"Some people screw up life for more than just themselves."

"Everyone on your mothers side of the family (except J Sr.) was always against me"

"I'm the one that's gotta sort things out in my life... .no one cares."

That's a lot to lay on a 21 year old - especially when you're speaking about her mother and her family.  These seem like thoughts to share with an adult friend or a therapist.

Are you aware of the Karpman triangle?  Your tone sounds like that of a victim, your ex and her family sound like the persecutors... .do you expect your SD to be a rescuer?

Trust me, I understand... .I have a SD, and an ex who made horrible choices that led to the end of the r/s.  But I have made it a point to leave my SD out of these kinds of discussions - we'd be talking about her MOTHER - and no one benefits if I start talking poorly about my SD's mother - not my SD, not my ex, and certainly not me. 

I think you may run the risk of losing your SD if you continue on this trajectory.  You do understand that she will side with her mother, don't you?  And it doesn't matter how bat___ crazy mom is - it's still her mother.

There's a lot more to the entire situation jhkbuzz... .but you are not wrong... .I shouldn't have said things.  She's not my SD by the way... .just very close... .or was very close.  I'm not going to get into every nook and cranny here... .I can't because there are just too many.  It's like criticizing a raisin for it's wrinkles and then the raising tries to explain the "grape to raisin" process, of course we can't leave out whether it was a california raisin or new york raisin.  I'd just bury myself deeper and deeper.  I am about 98% sure that my relationship with her will only be a series of pokes on fb as it's been since February.  It's just that her lack of "getting back to me" left me totally puzzled. She would usually call me daily on her way to work.  It was mainly to keep her company on the way to work and I didn't mind.  We talked mainly about her girly and work stuff.  It was ok.  After the b/u with her mother, she tried calling me, and I messaged her that I couldn't talk to her because I was all choked up.  So she spoke to her mother and told her that I was being a dick by not talking to her.  Okay... .so I felt really bad about that and the ex made sure to emphasize it to me.  See how this would be digging a deeper and deeper hole?

I'm sure there's a lot more to the story, and I understand you're in a LOT of pain.  I can empathize; truly I can.

I'm going to stick with what I said, though: I think that, at certain points, you crossed some boundaries in your conversation with your SD. (And, btw: my SD is a SD of my heart; not one legally - so I understand).

This is the rule I have when I talk to my SD:  I don't speak in a negative way about her mother or her mother's family.  Period.  That is her family - and it's bound to be where her loyalties lie.  At the other end of the spectrum, I have no idea what my ex (or her family) is saying about me; maybe nothing but probably some nastiness here and there; I don't care.  My SD is not dumb; she'll figure things out.  I take the high road and try to maintain my r/s with my SD with integrity; that's all I can do.

[jhkbuzz]

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[DyingLove]

Well put jhkbuzz.