Asked to go on vacation?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi All,

I've been around here for a long time. Some of you may know my story. Anyhow, here's my latest... .

My uBPDex had been in contact for a few month... . about 5. We live in different cities but were texting every day and hanging out whenever I was in town. We would spend days together. About a month ago, she wanted to talk to me about her past. She went into all her baggage and told me a whole bunch of stuff about what had happened to her (nothing was news to me). She's been going to therapy and I guess all this stuff is coming out.

Anyhow, about a week later, I was just like... . what is going on here? Why is she telling me all this stuff? And why are we texting every day? Anyhow, I talked to her about a week later and thanked her for sharing this stuff with me but that I was going to go away to work on my dissertation, that I needed to grieve some more (because my wires were getting crossed when spending so much time together) and wouldn't be in contact for a month or so (I wasn't going away... . I just needed a break). So, I turned off my texting from my phone and have been working away. She sent me a few emails here and there saying 'hi'. I emailed back saying 'hi' and that I was very busy but hoped she was well. I was very distant.

A few days ago she emails me to tell me she finally got a new job and was able to quit the one that was making her miserable. She has a week off and was wondering if I would like to go on a vacation with her for a week. I didn't really respond to the vacation thing but emailed back and told her congratulations on the new job. She emailed back and said asked me again about the vacation. I told her we could talk about it because that was a confusing thing for her to ask me to do.

Anyhow, we talked. Had a pleasant conversation. I asked her what her intentions were with this vacation. If it was just her wanting to be friends and hang out for a week or if this was a romantic invitation. She told me that we didn't live in the same city and that this was just to be friends but that she obviously wouldn't be going to so much effort with me if she didn't want to be 'close'.

This is very confusing for me. I've been in a totally messed up head space since she asked me. It was like me telling her that I needed some time to myself to grieve just went over her head. I don't know. It's weird. What's weirder though is that I'm on the fence about going. Part of me really wants to go and have a fun time with her. Part of me is terrified and scared of being constantly rejected by her. Another part of me wonders what she is thinking as it really makes no sense to me.

Anyhoo... . thanks for listening. Any insights would be great! And I know, I know... . what do I want... . I'm a bit messed right now so have no idea.

[willy45]

Hi All,

I've been around here for a long time. Some of you may know my story. Anyhow, here's my latest... .

My uBPDex had been in contact for a few month... . about 5. We live in different cities but were texting every day and hanging out whenever I was in town. We would spend days together. About a month ago, she wanted to talk to me about her past. She went into all her baggage and told me a whole bunch of stuff about what had happened to her (nothing was news to me). She's been going to therapy and I guess all this stuff is coming out.

Anyhow, about a week later, I was just like... . what is going on here? Why is she telling me all this stuff? And why are we texting every day? Anyhow, I talked to her about a week later and thanked her for sharing this stuff with me but that I was going to go away to work on my dissertation, that I needed to grieve some more (because my wires were getting crossed when spending so much time together) and wouldn't be in contact for a month or so (I wasn't going away... . I just needed a break). So, I turned off my texting from my phone and have been working away. She sent me a few emails here and there saying 'hi'. I emailed back saying 'hi' and that I was very busy but hoped she was well. I was very distant.

A few days ago she emails me to tell me she finally got a new job and was able to quit the one that was making her miserable. She has a week off and was wondering if I would like to go on a vacation with her for a week. I didn't really respond to the vacation thing but emailed back and told her congratulations on the new job. She emailed back and said asked me again about the vacation. I told her we could talk about it because that was a confusing thing for her to ask me to do.

Anyhow, we talked. Had a pleasant conversation. I asked her what her intentions were with this vacation. If it was just her wanting to be friends and hang out for a week or if this was a romantic invitation. She told me that we didn't live in the same city and that this was just to be friends but that she obviously wouldn't be going to so much effort with me if she didn't want to be 'close'.

This is very confusing for me. I've been in a totally messed up head space since she asked me. It was like me telling her that I needed some time to myself to grieve just went over her head. I don't know. It's weird. What's weirder though is that I'm on the fence about going. Part of me really wants to go and have a fun time with her. Part of me is terrified and scared of being constantly rejected by her. Another part of me wonders what she is thinking as it really makes no sense to me.

Anyhoo... . thanks for listening. Any insights would be great! And I know, I know... . what do I want... . I'm a bit messed right now so have no idea.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[jhkbuzz]

Hi All,

I've been around here for a long time. Some of you may know my story. Anyhow, here's my latest... .

My uBPDex had been in contact for a few month... . about 5. We live in different cities but were texting every day and hanging out whenever I was in town. We would spend days together. About a month ago, she wanted to talk to me about her past. She went into all her baggage and told me a whole bunch of stuff about what had happened to her (nothing was news to me). She's been going to therapy and I guess all this stuff is coming out.

Anyhow, about a week later, I was just like... . what is going on here? Why is she telling me all this stuff? And why are we texting every day? Anyhow, I talked to her about a week later and thanked her for sharing this stuff with me but that I was going to go away to work on my dissertation, that I needed to grieve some more (because my wires were getting crossed when spending so much time together) and wouldn't be in contact for a month or so (I wasn't going away... . I just needed a break). So, I turned off my texting from my phone and have been working away. She sent me a few emails here and there saying 'hi'. I emailed back saying 'hi' and that I was very busy but hoped she was well. I was very distant.

A few days ago she emails me to tell me she finally got a new job and was able to quit the one that was making her miserable. She has a week off and was wondering if I would like to go on a vacation with her for a week. I didn't really respond to the vacation thing but emailed back and told her congratulations on the new job. She emailed back and said asked me again about the vacation. I told her we could talk about it because that was a confusing thing for her to ask me to do.

Anyhow, we talked. Had a pleasant conversation. I asked her what her intentions were with this vacation. If it was just her wanting to be friends and hang out for a week or if this was a romantic invitation. She told me that we didn't live in the same city and that this was just to be friends but that she obviously wouldn't be going to so much effort with me if she didn't want to be 'close'.

This is very confusing for me. I've been in a totally messed up head space since she asked me. It was like me telling her that I needed some time to myself to grieve just went over her head. I don't know. It's weird. What's weirder though is that I'm on the fence about going. Part of me really wants to go and have a fun time with her. Part of me is terrified and scared of being constantly rejected by her. Another part of me wonders what she is thinking as it really makes no sense to me.

Anyhoo... . thanks for listening. Any insights would be great! And I know, I know... . what do I want... . I'm a bit messed right now so have no idea.

Honest thoughts here:  I think you're 'messed up' because you want to be more than just friends.  I also think you're 'messed up' because her words and her actions don't align; you don't tell an ex that you want to be just "friends" as you're telling them you want to go away with them for a week. Them's some awfully weak boundaries right there, IMHO.

The vacation sounds like the "pull" while the "just friends" sounds like the "push' - and this is how it will be for the foreseeable future. Is this what you want?

[willy45]

Yes. Thank you. That is why I'm messed up for sure. I honestly want a spectrum of things ranging from not having her in my life at all, to being friends, to seeing if we can work things out. What I don't want is this weirdo, undefined, quasi-relationship, friendship but not, pseudo-boyfriend but not all kind of thing. All I want is some predictable, settled boundaries around which I can just get my bearings. I told her that is she wanted to be friends, that was fine and I would treat her as I do with many of the friends I have... . A catch up call once in a while, lunch if I'm in town. That's it.

And yes. Her words and her actions just don't match up. If I'm in town, she wants to spend every day with me, all day, from morning until night. She invites me over to 'crash' at her place. She texts me everyday and every night (until I stopped that). I'm her go-to person in times of stress (obviously... . BPD).

Yikes. Just got another email saying: "No pressure about this trip. There will be other opportunities. I'm planning a trip to Europe in August".

Arg!

[jhkbuzz]

Yes. Thank you. That is why I'm messed up for sure. I honestly want a spectrum of things ranging from not having her in my life at all, to being friends, to seeing if we can work things out. What I don't want is this weirdo, undefined, quasi-relationship, friendship but not, pseudo-boyfriend but not all kind of thing. All I want is some predictable, settled boundaries around which I can just get my bearings. I told her that is she wanted to be friends, that was fine and I would treat her as I do with many of the friends I have... . A catch up call once in a while, lunch if I'm in town. That's it.

And yes. Her words and her actions just don't match up. If I'm in town, she wants to spend every day with me, all day, from morning until night. She invites me over to 'crash' at her place. She texts me everyday and every night (until I stopped that). I'm her go-to person in times of stress (obviously... . BPD).

Yikes. Just got another email saying: "No pressure about this trip. There will be other opportunities. I'm planning a trip to Europe in August".

Arg!

I soo get it - it's exactly what was happening at the end of my r/s - and it's exactly what I decided I couldn't live with.

Here's the problem: her boundaries are poor.  It's going to be up to you to uphold the boundaries. You don't have a ton of options here.

1.  You want a romantic r/s but she doesn't - she's made that clear.

2.  She wants a friendship - can you handle that?  It will only work if you are strong enough to stick to your boundaries (no vacations, no texting every day - whatever you decide you can or can't handle).

3.  No relationship of any kind - would it be more peaceful for you if she wasn't in your life?

[patientandclear]

I get it too ... . from both perspectives.  Most recently, my ex wBPD wanted something similar.  Well actually we did something similar for a long time, then he started seeing someone else, I felt I needed to draw back, he got mad, we stopped all communication for a long time, but recently he was back with similarly confusing and confused overtures for something that both was and wasn't romantic.

And then from much longer ago in my life, I can relate to her position.  I did something similar with the man I would now call the love of my life, when I was too scared to step up & claim the relationship because I knew it would be The End.  There would be nothing wrong, it would never fall apart, it would good.  It was the whole rest of my life staring me in the face, and I blinked.  I just wasn't ready to be that DONE exploring the world and my life.  So I cut off the official romance part (mostly meaning we no longer had sex -- though it had been really good).  But, having drawn that line (incredibly painful to him), I wanted to be with him constantly.  24 hours a day.  Slept on his couch.  We did incredibly romantic things together.  I treated him like my person, just didn't give him the title.

(In my defense, this was not BPD -- I was very young and it was just too fast.  He ended up leaving the country to put distance between us.  Kept in touch lightly (this of course was before email and texts so it was real letters in the mailbox every few weeks).  A couple years later, it became clear to me that I really loved him and I set out to pursue him. Too late--he'd met someone else.)

From both of these stories I derive this lesson... .

I don't think it's true that "it's clear she doesn't want a romantic r/s."  I'd say she DOES want a romantic r/s but, quite problematic for you, she doesn't want to acknowledge that's what it is.  So you can't have any rights and she has no obligations.  No expectations.  And she can drop out of the arrangement at any time without having to break up.  It's a classic have your cake and eat it too arrangement.

For someone terrified of intimacy, perhaps for very good reasons, it makes a lot of sense.  If you'll go along, it could work great for her for quite a while.

For you though, it's tough.  Necessarily, you are giving quite a lot of yourself to her if you enter into this kind of arrangement.  For me, it's the kind of giving I would only ordinarily do with a partner (actually, I first really got clear on that reading one of your posts, Willy, where you told her something similar).  When I originally found myself in this situation with my uBPD ex, I thought, well, we'll just see how it goes.  It was very nice as far as it went, after all.  I just hadn't factored in that he would exercise his "rights" in the "non-relationship" to both move away and start seeing someone else, without feeling like he needed to talk to me about that and without acknowledging that it changed things irrevocably for us.

If I had it to do over again, I'd contest the friends definition and not just go along.  I'd point out that these are the kinds of experiences one has with one's partner and that the friends framework becomes an arbitrary limit on what the relationship can be.  I know you've had that kind of conversation with her, and that, to me, is all the more reason why it's a problem to just go ahead & participate in these activities under the current framework she's offering.

Confusing stuff. I hope you'll keep us apprised of how it unfolds.

[willy45]

Yeah. Agreed. In light of the conversation we already had about this, this request seems out line. I would be an idiot to not stick by my own boundaries. And I guess I could be pissed that she would even offer after explaining how hard it is for me and how much grieving I constantly have to do. She knows this. I have told her, many times

[jhkbuzz]

Yeah. Agreed. In light of the conversation we already had about this, this request seems out line. I would be an idiot to not stick by my own boundaries. And I guess I could be pissed that she would even offer after explaining how hard it is for me and how much grieving I constantly have to do. She knows this. I have told her, many times

Remember:  fear of abandonment drives everything.  She may not want a r/s with you, but she doesn't want to lose you either.  Her needs loom so large that what you need doesn't really factor into her decisions.  Forgive her if you can; it's the disorder - but keep your boundaries strong and take care of your needs first and foremost!

[willy45]

I said 'No!'

[jhkbuzz]

I said 'No!'

How are you feeling?

[willy45]

Pretty bummed... . And confused honestly. But what choice do I have? Be bummed now or more bummed later?

[jhkbuzz]

Pretty bummed... . And confused honestly. But what choice do I have? Be bummed now or more bummed later?

I think the "bummed now" will be a faster recovery than if you had chosen to gone on vacation - yanno?

[patientandclear]

Congratulations Willy (I feel able to say that despite that this is in Staying because you started it in Leaving ). Standing by your boundaries is important. Did you explain why?

[willy45]

Thanks guys.

Jhkbuzz... . Yes. That was the choice I made. Better to be bummed now than mega bummed in two weeks from now.

And Patientandclear, thanks for the congrats. I didn't really get into it. Just sent her an email saying that while I would love to go, I really couldn't do it. No real explanation. I thought that was best. I told her I needed a day to think about whether or not I could do this on an emotional level after I asked her if this was a romantic ask or a friend ask. Her answer was that she wanted us to be 'close' and 'friends'.  I didn't want to get into a debate with her about what 'friendship' means. It would have been futile and likely would have been an open door for her to convince me that it is totally normal for exes to do away for a week together on their own, on vacation, stay in the same hotel, etc... . She's smarter than I am in the ways of convincing me of the absurd. So, it was just a direct no, can't do it, have lots on my plate I have to pay attention to, but thanks anyways.

She emailed back and said she would have been concerned had I decided to go considering the work I have on my plate. ? Then why ask? Weird.

Anyways, thanks guys. Much appreciated. I already feel slightly better having given an answer. I know I would have been a mess had I said yes.

[jhkbuzz]

Thanks guys.

Jhkbuzz... . Yes. That was the choice I made. Better to be bummed now than mega bummed in two weeks from now.

And Patientandclear, thanks for the congrats. I didn't really get into it. Just sent her an email saying that while I would love to go, I really couldn't do it. No real explanation. I thought that was best. I told her I needed a day to think about whether or not I could do this on an emotional level after I asked her if this was a romantic ask or a friend ask. Her answer was that she wanted us to be 'close' and 'friends'.  I didn't want to get into a debate with her about what 'friendship' means. It would have been futile and likely would have been an open door for her to convince me that it is totally normal for exes to do away for a week together on their own, on vacation, stay in the same hotel, etc... . She's smarter than I am in the ways of convincing me of the absurd. So, it was just a direct no, can't do it, have lots on my plate I have to pay attention to, but thanks anyways.

She emailed back and said she would have been concerned had I decided to go considering the work I have on my plate. ? Then why ask? Weird.

Anyways, thanks guys. Much appreciated. I already feel slightly better having given an answer. I know I would have been a mess had I said yes.

I think this stuff is all part of the healing process... .putting our needs first, figuring out our boundaries, seeing the situation realistically rather than how we want it to be.

Well done, my friend!