How to stop idealizing her?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I still think of my pwBPD ex as the Love of my Life who left me. I see all the ways that she didn't meet my needs but I don't see these as shortcomings in her, let alone an abnormality. I still see her as someone who is maybe too good for me, someone who is going to move on to endless opportunities for glorious relationships, leaving me alone in the dust.

This is the source of a lot of pain and rumination.

I see that I am still functioning as her idealizing mirror. I know more about her dark side than anyone else does, except for her previous lovers. I know more than she can admit to herself how she hurts people who love her. I have always protected her from this information. Part of that was for me, apparently, to make me feel like I was in the kind of relationship I want with the kind of person I need. But I do recall how she would limit talk about her withdrawals, the sudden changes of feeling towards me: "I don't want to be with someone who sees me that way!" I would get scared then, as I sensed she usually had one foot out the door anyway. I would shut up, I would question my perceptions (Is this really emotional abuse?), I would kind of "forget" the hurtful thing I had experienced with her.

But why am I still doing this? She has left me now permanently. She has admitted that the way she behaved with me, the initial love fest, the periodic withdrawals, the final loss of interest in the relationship, the abandonment, are all things she did with previous partners. So why do I still need to see her like the Prize Who Got Away?

It still feels to me like she abandoned me because I wasn't good enough. I think she probably does think that, at least part of the time, maybe most of the time now. But why do I have to think it? Why do I have to think that she was right to reject me? (I do actually think she was right to end the relationship, because it was unhealthy, but that isn't the same thing as leaving because I wasn't good enough).

How do I stop being my ex's idealizing mirror?

[Achaya]

I still think of my pwBPD ex as the Love of my Life who left me. I see all the ways that she didn't meet my needs but I don't see these as shortcomings in her, let alone an abnormality. I still see her as someone who is maybe too good for me, someone who is going to move on to endless opportunities for glorious relationships, leaving me alone in the dust.

This is the source of a lot of pain and rumination.

I see that I am still functioning as her idealizing mirror. I know more about her dark side than anyone else does, except for her previous lovers. I know more than she can admit to herself how she hurts people who love her. I have always protected her from this information. Part of that was for me, apparently, to make me feel like I was in the kind of relationship I want with the kind of person I need. But I do recall how she would limit talk about her withdrawals, the sudden changes of feeling towards me: "I don't want to be with someone who sees me that way!" I would get scared then, as I sensed she usually had one foot out the door anyway. I would shut up, I would question my perceptions (Is this really emotional abuse?), I would kind of "forget" the hurtful thing I had experienced with her.

But why am I still doing this? She has left me now permanently. She has admitted that the way she behaved with me, the initial love fest, the periodic withdrawals, the final loss of interest in the relationship, the abandonment, are all things she did with previous partners. So why do I still need to see her like the Prize Who Got Away?

It still feels to me like she abandoned me because I wasn't good enough. I think she probably does think that, at least part of the time, maybe most of the time now. But why do I have to think it? Why do I have to think that she was right to reject me? (I do actually think she was right to end the relationship, because it was unhealthy, but that isn't the same thing as leaving because I wasn't good enough).

How do I stop being my ex's idealizing mirror?

[valet]

Sorry about what you're going through dude.

You know how she behaves. Now you just need to adjust your behaviors to match how the negative things made you feel.

Have you been in any kind of contact with her, social media included?

I found that the only thing that helped me truly knock her off of that pedestal was time and space, and absolutely no knowledge of how she was or what she was doing. Sounds like you need some room to breath and figure things out in a more clear way.

[FannyB]

Achaya: I'm sorry you're going through this. For me it's akin to revising for a subject you never really liked. Keep reading everybody's stories and note the similarities until it starts to sink in. Going back is not an option as it will be more of the same - but with an increased emphasis on devaluing. You can only go forward. No-one is good enough for your ex - she needs the 'perfect' relationship to compensate for her own frailties and self-loathing. Whenever there's a problem she will blame her future partners for it and restart her search. You can do better - she probably can't! 

[Achaya]

Sorry about what you're going through dude.

You know how she behaves. Now you just need to adjust your behaviors to match how the negative things made you feel.

Have you been in any kind of contact with her, social media included?

I found that the only thing that helped me truly knock her off of that pedestal was time and space, and absolutely no knowledge of how she was or what she was doing. Sounds like you need some room to breath and figure things out in a more clear way.

The part about adjusting my behavior to match how the negative things made me feel rings a bell. I started out in the relationship doing this, but learned that she could not/would not process my hurt, angry behavior as anything but an unprovoked and unjustified attack on her self-image. I became confused that maybe she was right, and I shouldn't have reacted the way I did. After a while I got to a place where I knew I was bottling up a lot of hurt and anger, and my need to address the conflicts so as to resolve them, but I was afraid to talk to her about anything she might hear as destructive criticism.

Also, you are right. We are still in the process of returning possessions to each other, and have had significant conversations on two occasions last week. I would say these went "well," but the fact that she was less defensive than usual about her contributions to our problems sent me into LaLa Land, fantasies of recycling and so on. I have imposed an NC boundary, but she has been in no hurry to get her stuff out of my house. She agreed to finalize it by the end of this week.

[Achaya]

No-one is good enough for your ex - she needs the 'perfect' relationship to compensate for her own frailties and self-loathing. Whenever there's a problem she will blame her future partners for it and restart her search. You can do better - she probably can't! 

This is a very helpful way for me to look at this. My ex talks a lot about self-loathing, and told me that she has been dealing with our separation by cultivating that mind state (to avoid whatever else she is feeling). I think you are totally correct. She needs for the relationship to be perfect so that she can think that she was perfect within it. And since she can't even be adequate, that requires me to erase my reality and replace it with an appearance of satisfaction with the relationship. Over time, it became harder and harder to do that, but I was still trying. Maybe what gets to me (on an unconscious level?) is that even when I did make all my pain and anger disappear, along with my needs to be included in the relationship, she still decided to leave me. Even when I gave her what she seemed to want the most from me.

You are right, I need to look at this as evidence that I could never please her. When she left me, she said she did it because she wanted "more." I couldn't have given more than what I gave her. In reality, if I fell short, I think it was by giving her too much.

Thanks so much for your post, it was very helpful.

[DyingLove]

I still think of my pwBPD ex as the Love of my Life who left me. I see all the ways that she didn't meet my needs but I don't see these as shortcomings in her, let alone an abnormality. I still see her as someone who is maybe too good for me, someone who is going to move on to endless opportunities for glorious relationships, leaving me alone in the dust.

This is the source of a lot of pain and rumination.

I see that I am still functioning as her idealizing mirror. I know more about her dark side than anyone else does, except for her previous lovers. I know more than she can admit to herself how she hurts people who love her. I have always protected her from this information. Part of that was for me, apparently, to make me feel like I was in the kind of relationship I want with the kind of person I need. But I do recall how she would limit talk about her withdrawals, the sudden changes of feeling towards me: "I don't want to be with someone who sees me that way!" I would get scared then, as I sensed she usually had one foot out the door anyway. I would shut up, I would question my perceptions (Is this really emotional abuse?), I would kind of "forget" the hurtful thing I had experienced with her.

But why am I still doing this? She has left me now permanently. She has admitted that the way she behaved with me, the initial love fest, the periodic withdrawals, the final loss of interest in the relationship, the abandonment, are all things she did with previous partners. So why do I still need to see her like the Prize Who Got Away?

It still feels to me like she abandoned me because I wasn't good enough. I think she probably does think that, at least part of the time, maybe most of the time now. But why do I have to think it? Why do I have to think that she was right to reject me? (I do actually think she was right to end the relationship, because it was unhealthy, but that isn't the same thing as leaving because I wasn't good enough).

How do I stop being my ex's idealizing mirror?

Wow, tough one. Really tough. I try to fool myself constantly that I don't love her (but I do), that I wouldn't take her back (but I would), that we have a chance again at forever (but we don't), that she would be different and fixed (but she won't).  The TIME thingie is working, but slowly.  I'm 51 days N/C today, the number feels good, I'm not as bad as I used to be in most aspects of the B/U, I know in my head that I SHOULD be getting better, I also look forward to that number increasing and doubling.  In perspective, after writing the last PERIOD after the word doubling, I got tremendously sad, choked up and feel my face getting ready to let loose 40 days and 40 nights of tears.  It just came as I thought of her.  So very sad, and sometimes I cannot control it.

[patientandclear]

Achaya, I relate completely to your initial post (have felt that way for so long now) but I also think what you wrote in your last post -- that you couldn't have done more, you couldn't have done a better job of sublimating your hurt and anger and giving her a non-critical loving experience, what she seemed to want ... .so if there is a flaw in what you did, it lies in doing too MUCH of that, not that it was not enough.

It helps me greatly to remind myself that I did everything my ex asked of me -- I was non-possessive but loving, constantly available to him but made no demands, did not judge, was interested in him for him, not in exchange for something he was giving me ... .and he left me, over and over, in new and creative ways that made me feel like crap.  He now wants to go back to that arrangement and has many theoretical reasons why that should be good and OK and maybe will grow into more.  What I have to rely on is my experiencing already having played that out.  It did not "grow into more."  My loyalty and willingness to meet him where he was was taken for granted; it did not become a reason for him to take emotional risks and start inquiring what I needed.

I suspect deep self-worth deficits are what is making it hard to stay with that understanding, for you.  "She/he left because I wasn't good enough" resonates with our internal self-critical narratives.  Doesn't make it accurate, but does make it hard to dispel.

[Achaya]

Patient and clear, Thanks so much for your post. Your words make me feel heard and understood by someone who shares my relationship experience.

This website is a godsend for me. At the same time I am deeply affected by the intensity of the pain so many people are sharing in their posts. So many people, so much tragedy and grief. I had no idea that BPD was such a social problem.

[dobie]

No-one is good enough for your ex - she needs the 'perfect' relationship to compensate for her own frailties and self-loathing. Whenever there's a problem she will blame her future partners for it and restart her search. You can do better - she probably can't! 

This is a very helpful way for me to look at this. My ex talks a lot about self-loathing, and told me that she has been dealing with our separation by cultivating that mind state (to avoid whatever else she is feeling). I think you are totally correct. She needs for the relationship to be perfect so that she can think that she was perfect within it. And since she can't even be adequate, that requires me to erase my reality and replace it with an appearance of satisfaction with the relationship. Over time, it became harder and harder to do that, but I was still trying. Maybe what gets to me (on an unconscious level?) is that even when I did make all my pain and anger disappear, along with my needs to be included in the relationship, she still decided to leave me. Even when I gave her what she seemed to want the most from me.

You are right, I need to look at this as evidence that I could never please her. When she left me, she said she did it because she wanted "more." I couldn't have given more than what I gave her. In reality, if I fell short, I think it was by giving her too much.

Thanks so much for your post, it was very helpful.

Achaya I hear you , after all the changes I made it was still not enough for my x the question is why did we feel we had to or should change ? God knows she did nothing to become a better person . looking back I asked for so little and got so little back why?

Could it be for you the same as it is for me ? That these partners represent something or someone else we are trying to make love us and tell us we are whole and perfect?  Could the feeling its "your fault" be a wound that's there before she came into your life ?

[Madison66]

Achaya,

I've been there and totally understand what you're saying.  I was in a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf and have been out of the r/s for nearly 18 months.  I lived with constant emotional blackmail and implied threats of b/u over the course of the r/s.  I finally left after she started getting physically abusive and I just couldn't deal with the crap anymore.  I felt a mix of utter joy and utter heartbreak and freedom and frustration and whatever!  It was especially hard to see the parade of replacements she had going on within days of the b/u.  We lived on the same street, so it was impossible for me to not see it and n/c was horribly difficult.  

Ok, so one thing I did immediately upon leaving the r/s was to create a bit of a diary of all the crap I allowed myself to endure over the three years.  All the hurtful things she said and did; all the wacky behavior; all the things she projected on to me.  After filling 18 typed pages, I could really finally see how bad it was.  I also could clearly see that this person I was with for three years, while not a horrible person, didn't meet my expectations for the mate I wanted to be with.  The biggest bucket of cold water that hit me was something that my T helped me understand.  I clearly wasn't living my own values by participating in the r/s.  I was the one selling myself short!  I took my life back and began putting myself first.  

N/c and time was really the key.  I've read some folks hear refer to 60 days n/c, but my goal was 100 days.  I lucked out and my ex gf moved away from the neighborhood about five months after the b/u, but still attempted to break n/c several times after.  I didn't fall for the antics and moved on.  Again, I'm 18 months out and I'm happy, healthy and at peace.  I do think about her from time to time, but that is it.  

[DyingLove]

Dobie, this caught my attention.

You said up above:  Could it be for you the same as it is for me ? That these partners represent something or someone else we are trying to make love us and tell us we are whole and perfect?  Could the feeling its "your fault" be a wound that's there before she came into your life ?

What it made me think, or what it triggered in me is the thought that at time, my ex actually blamed me for things that were nonexistent FROM me.

Why it relates is because it WAS my fault according to her.  Her ex#2 husband was a psycho (litterally) and he kept tabs on her constantly from what she told me in the beginning. She would always need to be on the phone with him and keep him abreast of her locations and how long things would take etc.

Well I thought it was great when we talked all the time, of course I'm thinking that she wanted to talk to me all the time (morning on her way to work, lunchtime, on the trip home). But one day it started, she blamed me for keeping tabs on her. I told her "hey, wait a minute, take a look at who your talking to because your EX did that, and not me". How much of that she actually decipered I'll never know. She had things stuck in her mind that popped up on occasion. If I brought it too her attention, she just passed it by without comment, or recognition of it being incorrect.  All the red flags that never showed up to me (I never saw them.)

So, how does this help stop me from idealizing her? When I remember this stuff, all the CONS in my list, it makes me stop seeing her as the goddess I thought she was and more like the little girl that wanted to play goddess in the class play and everyone laughed at her.  Both her and I made her out to be so much more than she actually was.  If I'm wrong, well, so be it, because a goddess does not do what she did to me. Hands down!

[jhkbuzz]

I still think of my pwBPD ex as the Love of my Life who left me. I see all the ways that she didn't meet my needs but I don't see these as shortcomings in her, let alone an abnormality. I still see her as someone who is maybe too good for me, someone who is going to move on to endless opportunities for glorious relationships, leaving me alone in the dust.

This is a really tough one; one I struggled with this intensely when we first broke up, and I struggle with less and less as time goes on - but it's still a battle. I wish I had a solid answer for you but I don't.

One of the biggest elements of the struggle for me was incorporating the "good" side of her with the "bad" side (to be simplistic).  When she was good she was good - funny, sweet, sexy, smart, affectionate and lovely.  In fact, I still miss that "side" of her.  But when she was "bad" she was emotionally abusive: detached, dishonest, unfaithful, uncaring and rejecting - and it broke my heart beyond anything that words can describe.

In the first six months after the b/u I found myself remembering her through these two different "lenses" - I'd be angry when I was remembering all of her emotionally abusive behavior, but I'd be inconsolable when I was remembering all of the lovely things about her that I missed.  I think for me this was the most difficult part of resolving the breakup; I felt schizophrenic with my ping-ponging back and forth between the ways I would "remember" her.

Over time, I began reconciling the fact that ALL of these characteristics make up who she is - even in spite of the fact that they are so incredibly dichotomous. As I've come to grips with this truth my pain has lessened; she was not "too good" for me - the truth is that she was too disordered for me.  She will not go on to have a "glorious life;" unless she sticks with therapy, all of her future relationships will follow the same pattern. I don't say this angrily; I say it realistically.  Nothing will magically change unless she comes to grips with her BPD and takes concrete steps towards healing.

"It still feels to me like she abandoned me because I wasn't good enough."

THAT ^ may be where your work really lies.  I have felt the same, and am working with a T to get to the bottom of it.  Some of my low self esteem came from her devaluing of me; but the fact that this feeling lingered after the r/s ended suggests something deeper, I think.

[Achaya]

Thank you so much for all your responses! I am seeing that I have an entire mental system already in place for responding to Jekyll and Hyde behavior in ways that sustain a consistently positive image of the other person, no matter what they do. Part of how that seems to work is that I construe the abuse, rejections and withdrawals as something like natural, understandable on the other person's part rather than abnormal behavior. In fact, I don't register, react, or remember the bad episodes to the extent I think normal people should. Obviously my part of this dance was learned in my childhood---it is so automatic!

I don't know who exactly in my family was borderline, if anyone, but my father was an episodic alcoholic. He was abusive both when he drank and also randomly and unpredictably at other times. He was a survivor of very severe child abuse, and I am sure he would be diagnosed with PTSD from that , at the very least. His identity was fractured in the same ways as what we see with pwBPD. My mother's stance was codependent in the extreme. When he was abusive to me, she would lead me through complex psychoanalyses of how my father had been hurt by his parents, how he "really" loved me, that his personality was "warped" by the abuse, that part of the time he acted just like his own abusive father part of the time, but this was not "really" my true father. I was left with "understanding" him as my only way of coping with the pain of his abuse.

I have worked on these issues for a very long time, but I see that I am now being presented with another opportunity. Or probably more accurately, I arranged an opportunity to work this out with someone, but once again, it came out the same way it always does. Maybe the conclusion should be that no matter how much insight I have, no matter how many new skills I acquire, I can't make these relationships turn out differently because it takes 2 people to accomplish that, and I never have any adult help! Same as when I was a kid.

Thanks again, you guys, you are so generous, caring and helpful! All of us deserve to be with people who are just as kind and helpful to us!

[DyingLove]

Thank you so much for all your responses! I am seeing that I have an entire mental system already in place for responding to Jekyll and Hyde behavior in ways that sustain a consistently positive image of the other person, no matter what they do. Part of how that seems to work is that I construe the abuse, rejections and withdrawals as something like natural, understandable on the other person's part rather than abnormal behavior. In fact, I don't register, react, or remember the bad episodes to the extent I think normal people should. Obviously my part of this dance was learned in my childhood---it is so automatic!

I don't know who exactly in my family was borderline, if anyone, but my father was an episodic alcoholic. He was abusive both when he drank and also randomly and unpredictably at other times. He was a survivor of very severe child abuse, and I am sure he would be diagnosed with PTSD from that , at the very least. His identity was fractured in the same ways as what we see with pwBPD. My mother's stance was codependent in the extreme. When he was abusive to me, she would lead me through complex psychoanalyses of how my father had been hurt by his parents, how he "really" loved me, that his personality was "warped" by the abuse, that part of the time he acted just like his own abusive father part of the time, but this was not "really" my true father. I was left with "understanding" him as my only way of coping with the pain of his abuse.

I have worked on these issues for a very long time, but I see that I am now being presented with another opportunity. Or probably more accurately, I arranged an opportunity to work this out with someone, but once again, it came out the same way it always does. Maybe the conclusion should be that no matter how much insight I have, no matter how many new skills I acquire, I can't make these relationships turn out differently because it takes 2 people to accomplish that, and I never have any adult help! Same as when I was a kid.

Thanks again, you guys, you are so generous, caring and helpful! All of us deserve to be with people who are just as kind and helpful to us!

I second those Kudos!  This is a place that has some of the most compassionate and understanding people you will ever meet!

[Invictus01]

It would be much easier to detach and leave for me if, as it is the case with many people who post here, she actually raged at me or was physically abusive. I don't care who you are, I'd never put up with that stuff. She didn't, at least not with me. And that's the tough part.

[DyingLove]

It would be much easier to detach and leave for me if, as it is the case with many people who post here, she actually raged at me or was physically abusive. I don't care who you are, I'd never put up with that stuff. She didn't, at least not with me. And that's the tough part.

My ex was more subtle.  She was obviously "calculating" in her mind, but wouldn't be so outright until the time was just right. She didn't blame until she got upset. Those "things" that she kept so that she could hold them over my head or at my throat when she felt that she needed ammunition.

[jhkbuzz]

Thank you so much for all your responses! I am seeing that I have an entire mental system already in place for responding to Jekyll and Hyde behavior in ways that sustain a consistently positive image of the other person, no matter what they do. Part of how that seems to work is that I construe the abuse, rejections and withdrawals as something like natural, understandable on the other person's part rather than abnormal behavior. In fact, I don't register, react, or remember the bad episodes to the extent I think normal people should. Obviously my part of this dance was learned in my childhood---it is so automatic!

That's a really interesting thought - normalizing abusive behavior as a "learned habit."  My ex and my mother were like night and day - my mother raged and my ex didn't.  But with the both of them I was exposed to abusive behavior - from people I loved - and that created a WHOLE lot of cognitive dissonance within me. 

Imagine the dilemma to me/us as children - either maintain the positive image of the "other" by deciding that we are the problem (bad/defective/not worthy of love); or decide that a parent is evil and we are suffering from abuse.

What a terrible choice for a young mind.  I suspect I know the decision that each of us made.

Maybe it's me.  Maybe I'm the problem.

[janey62]

Could it be for you the same as it is for me ? That these partners represent something or someone else we are trying to make love us and tell us we are whole and perfect?  Could the feeling its "your fault" be a wound that's there before she came into your life ?

That's a really interesting thought - normalizing abusive behavior as a "learned habit."  My ex and my mother were like night and day - my mother raged and my ex didn't.  But with the both of them I was exposed to abusive behavior - from people I loved - and that created a WHOLE lot of cognitive dissonance within me.  

Imagine the dilemma to me/us as children - either maintain the positive image of the "other" by deciding that we are the problem (bad/defective/not worthy of love); or decide that a parent is evil and we are suffering from abuse.

What a terrible choice for a young mind.  I suspect I know the decision that each of us made.

Maybe it's me.  Maybe I'm the problem.

This is it for me... .exactly!  I've been thinking about why I feel so much guilt over ending this relationship, as if I'd let him down in some way... . It's so messed up really because all my life i've been trying to get my dad to not have abandoned me, to have been good enough for him, and have subsequently been abandoned a lot by partners! Also I was bullied, terrorised and criticised by a mother who most likely had BPD!  So it's all so familiar!  I spent so much of my childhood normalising her behaviour and trying to be good enough not to provoke her... .all the while longing for my daddy to come and sweep me up and make it all alright... .

I'm 4 months out of a r/s with a pwBPD now and have maintained N/C for most of that, blocking his phone and email, yet the other day one got through, a sad, lost, pathetic plea to me... .he expresses himself very well and I felt sad and sorry for him and missed him and yearned for him and agonised about how it would be if I never ever saw him again for the rest of my life... .

However having dipped in here for 10 minutes I'm remembering, the covering up, the trying not to provoke, the trying to justify and blame the illness and make allowances.  The vain belief that if only I could be strong enough for him, that I would be the one to help him to get well... .that he would love me and not abandon me, all the crazy stuff I told myself.  I remember telling myself that I had made a commitment and that no matter how tough it got I was on for the whole ride!  I told myself that if you love someone you don't leave them because they are ill, that if he had cancer I would stick by him, and on and on and on... .

Thank heavens for all of you and this amazing forum! I just put my nose in for 5 minutes to try to gain some support and I'm back to my place of resolve and determination to move on and grow from this experience and let him go with love... . 

Thank you all  

[janey62]

In fact, I don't register, react, or remember the bad episodes to the extent I think normal people should. Obviously my part of this dance was learned in my childhood---it is so automatic!

And yes Achaya, going back to your original post and later post, I agree with what you've said here... .I think it might be what we all have in common, reacting to current abuse like this because it is familiar.  I remember telling work colleagues about my relationship and seeing the horror on their faces and hearing them tell me that it was unacceptable that I should be treated this way,  so what did I do?  I didn't tell them about it any more, lied in fact and said that it was all ok again now.  I covered it up! 

[jhkbuzz]

Could it be for you the same as it is for me ? That these partners represent something or someone else we are trying to make love us and tell us we are whole and perfect?  Could the feeling its "your fault" be a wound that's there before she came into your life ?

That's a really interesting thought - normalizing abusive behavior as a "learned habit."  My ex and my mother were like night and day - my mother raged and my ex didn't.  But with the both of them I was exposed to abusive behavior - from people I loved - and that created a WHOLE lot of cognitive dissonance within me.  

Imagine the dilemma to me/us as children - either maintain the positive image of the "other" by deciding that we are the problem (bad/defective/not worthy of love); or decide that a parent is evil and we are suffering from abuse.

What a terrible choice for a young mind.  I suspect I know the decision that each of us made.

Maybe it's me.  Maybe I'm the problem.

This is it for me... .exactly!  I've been thinking about why I feel so much guilt over ending this relationship, as if I'd let him down in some way... . It's so messed up really because all my life i've been trying to get my dad to not have abandoned me, to have been good enough for him, and have subsequently been abandoned a lot by partners! Also I was bullied, terrorised and criticised by a mother who most likely had BPD!  So it's all so familiar!  I spent so much of my childhood normalising her behaviour and trying to be good enough not to provoke her... . all the while longing for my daddy to come and sweep me up and make it all alright... .

Wow, I could have written that sentence.  Only difference was that my dad was there, but it was almost like he was a non-entity.  Mom ruled the roost; dad went along with whatever she said. So I never turned to him for comfort - I knew whose "side" he was on.

The vain belief that if only I could be strong enough for him, that I would be the one to help him to get well... .that he would love me and not abandon me, all the crazy stuff I told myself.  I remember telling myself that I had made a commitment and that no matter how tough it got I was on for the whole ride!  I told myself that if you love someone you don't leave them because they are ill, that if he had cancer I would stick by him, and on and on and on... .

Could have written that ^ too... .

[Achaya]

Could it be for you the same as it is for me ? That these partners represent something or someone else we are trying to make love us and tell us we are whole and perfect?  Could the feeling its "your fault" be a wound that's there before she came into your life ?

dobie, I am looking at the source of the "fault" in my family of origin. Even as a distraction, this focus actually helps give me something constructive to think about. And besides, I am already learning some things. I see now that I operated as a positive mirror for my ex. I didn't discuss the behaviors that were hurting me because she took that to mean that I was painting her black. That was her projection, I was trying to solve a problem between us. If I hadn't given up on sharing all of the truth about how she was affecting me, she either would have learned something about how she hurts people or the relationship would have ended sooner. She got to discard me because I wasn't more forthright sooner in the relationship about her abuse of me. Just in that area, I already see how I can do something very different in my next relationship, if there is to be one.

[Everlong]

Gosh, I am having this same problem with my ex who recently dumped me out of the blue. It has been two months with absolutely no contact whatsoever, although, I can't stop wishing he'd reach out and at least make a peace offering so I could move on with some closure.

But, honestly, I just wish he'd come back. I know it's not a wise wish, so why do I want someone who clearly can't treat me well? (My parents raised me with more self respect than that!) I can't stop craving how he would stare at me when he thought I wasn't looking, how he'd kiss me slowly with his eyes open, and how he'd confess sweetly that I was his dream girl.

They say uncertainty is a huge aphrodisiac. Perhaps that's it. It's the uncertainty that keeps your tummy so in knots that you mistake it for love. I guess that's why the sex was so amazingly good. Was it the intensity of it all that keeps me hooked?

I have been trying to occupy my time with activities and friends, and it has helped a lot. But I can't shake the underlying hope that each new day will bring an email or text from him. Somehow, I can't seem to accept that this is how it will end, and as much as I know he would only continue to make life miserable, I can't imagine it without him.

Ugh.

[Achaya]

Gosh, I am having this same problem with my ex who recently dumped me out of the blue. It has been two months with absolutely no contact whatsoever, although, I can't stop wishing he'd reach out and at least make a peace offering so I could move on with some closure.

But, honestly, I just wish he'd come back. I know it's not a wise wish, so why do I want someone who clearly can't treat me well? (My parents raised me with more self respect than that!) I can't stop craving how he would stare at me when he thought I wasn't looking, how he'd kiss me slowly with his eyes open, and how he'd confess sweetly that I was his dream girl.

They say uncertainty is a huge aphrodisiac. Perhaps that's it. It's the uncertainty that keeps your tummy so in knots that you mistake it for love. I guess that's why the sex was so amazingly good. Was it the intensity of it all that keeps me hooked?

I have been trying to occupy my time with activities and friends, and it has helped a lot. But I can't shake the underlying hope that each new day will bring an email or text from him. Somehow, I can't seem to accept that this is how it will end, and as much as I know he would only continue to make life miserable, I can't imagine it without him.

Ugh.

Yes, I relate to all of this. The longing for my lover to return is getting eroded by what I now know for sure, that nothing would be different even if that happened. It would be just another trip around the merry go round. Anyway, my ex has been very clear and unwavering in saying she is done with the relationship. She has been in and out and in and out of it for several years, but she acted different this time, so I believe her decision is solid. That is what hurts the most, that she just lost all that feeling she had for me. At the same time, it will help me to get over her, because there is no way she will accept me back.

I am noticing quite strongly how I continue to regard her as the ideal partner, who has left me but remains ideal. If I had known before I became involved that she would treat me this way, I would not have regarded her as ideal and would not have entered the relationship with her. I would have regarded her as very attractive, impressive and totally my type, but I did not want to get involved with someone who would be distant and unavailable, then dump me. I know now that this is part of who she is, and that this part has destroyed every relationship she has had. It is part of her BPD, but is also part of her, because that's what a personality disorder is.

I have to keep returning to the need to treat this loss as a death. When I get involved in yearning it is always because I want to keep some hope going. Hope is usually a good thing, but in my recent relationship, hope was what kept me in pain. Having hope for myself requires killing all hope for a relationship with my ex.

[jhkbuzz]

I am noticing quite strongly how I continue to regard her as the ideal partner, who has left me but remains ideal. If I had known before I became involved that she would treat me this way, I would not have regarded her as ideal and would not have entered the relationship with her. I would have regarded her as very attractive, impressive and totally my type, but I did not want to get involved with someone who would be distant and unavailable, then dump me.

It took me a long time to replace my idealized version of who I thought she was with a realistic version of who she actually is. After the b/u I understood who she was intellectually, but I seemed emotionally unable to accept it.  And until I was able to do so I struggled with exactly what you described above.

The good news is that time and a deepening understanding will help you heal.

I know I shared the quote from my T the other day ("She was in a dysfunctional relationship with herself. How could she be in a functional relationship with anyone else?" and the fact that my ex had different 'parts of self.'  I've been practically meditating on my T's quote since she said it and had this realization the other day:  all of her different 'parts of self' had different goals.  Adult M desperately wanted to finally have a successful adult r/s; Teenage M wanted to be free and to do whatever she wanted - including sex with others if she felt like it; Little M wanted a caretaker - she just wanted to be cared for, protected and safe.

She was at war within herself; she was a shifting canvas of opposing desires; the very epitome of what it means to be in a dysfunctional relationship with oneself. I don't know how I didn't see it sooner.

It makes me sad that I hung on for so long. We didn't really ever have a chance.

[Everlong]

I have to keep returning to the need to treat this loss as a death. When I get involved in yearning it is always because I want to keep some hope going. Hope is usually a good thing, but in my recent relationship, hope was what kept me in pain. Having hope for myself requires killing all hope for a relationship with my ex.

This is a very good way to look at the situation. I am a very hopeful person. I always try to find the good in things, but this time it got me in trouble.

And I like what you said about not idealizing her if you'd known how she was from the start. I would have to agree with full disclosure I might not have proceeded to enter into a relationship with my ex.

Plus, you made a point that this person will never have success in ANY relationship because of the way he/she is wired. That's sad to think, but helps it feel a little less like a loss on my end.

[Achaya]

I know I shared the quote from my T the other day ("She was in a dysfunctional relationship with herself. How could she be in a functional relationship with anyone else?" and the fact that my ex had different 'parts of self.'  I've been practically meditating on my T's quote since she said it and had this realization the other day:  all of her different 'parts of self' had different goals.  Adult M desperately wanted to finally have a successful adult r/s; Teenage M wanted to be free and to do whatever she wanted - including sex with others if she felt like it; Little M wanted a caretaker - she just wanted to be cared for, protected and safe.

She was at war within herself; she was a shifting canvas of opposing desires; the very epitome of what it means to be in a dysfunctional relationship with oneself. I don't know how I didn't see it sooner.

It makes me sad that I hung on for so long. We didn't really ever have a chance.

I have come to similar conclusions, probably because I am using the same multiple-selves model you are. I never really knew what the diagnostic description meant by "unstable" self. I see now that my ex was unstable because there wasn't any consistency, as far as I could tell, in which sub personality was out at any given time. I found them to be different in the ways you describe, especially since they were of differing ages. I think that the purpose of this kind of personality organization is in fact to keep the attitudes, feelings, memories, etc, in separate compartments, not touching each other. At least that is what some experts seem to be saying. I am always more convinced by what people tell me from their own experience, however

I also feel that we never had a chance, and I believe that we did both want the relationship to work out.

[jhkbuzz]

I know I shared the quote from my T the other day ("She was in a dysfunctional relationship with herself. How could she be in a functional relationship with anyone else?" and the fact that my ex had different 'parts of self.' I've been practically meditating on my T's quote since she said it and had this realization the other day:  all of her different 'parts of self' had different goals.  Adult M desperately wanted to finally have a successful adult r/s; Teenage M wanted to be free and to do whatever she wanted - including sex with others if she felt like it; Little M wanted a caretaker - she just wanted to be cared for, protected and safe.

She was at war within herself; she was a shifting canvas of opposing desires; the very epitome of what it means to be in a dysfunctional relationship with oneself. I don't know how I didn't see it sooner.

It makes me sad that I hung on for so long. We didn't really ever have a chance.

I have come to similar conclusions, probably because I am using the same multiple-selves model you are. I never really knew what the diagnostic description meant by "unstable" self. I see now that my ex was unstable because there wasn't any consistency, as far as I could tell, in which sub personality was out at any given time. I found them to be different in the ways you describe, especially since they were of differing ages. I think that the purpose of this kind of personality organization is in fact to keep the attitudes, feelings, memories, etc, in separate compartments, not touching each other. At least that is what some experts seem to be saying. I am always more convinced by what people tell me from their own experience, however

I also feel that we never had a chance, and I believe that we did both want the relationship to work out.

I don't know that it's a purposeful compartmentalization... .not overtly purposeful, anyway. What can get compartmentalized are traumatic memories - sometimes one part can hold the traumatic memories and the other parts are not aware of them.  But when you get into this territory I think you're heading towards a diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder.

I think that Schema theory posits that some of the maladaptive modes were actually adaptive at one point in time - adaptive for survival in dangerous or stressful situations. "Early Maladaptive Schemas began with something that was done to us by our families or by other children, which damaged us in some way. We might have been abandoned, criticized, overprotected, emotionally or physically abused, excluded or deprived and, consequently, the schema becomes part of us.  Schemata are essentially valid representations of early childhood experiences, and serve as templates for processing and defining later behaviors, thoughts, feelings and relationships with others. Early maladaptive schemas include entrenched patterns of distorted thinking, disruptive emotions and dysfunctional behaviors. Schemata are perpetuated throughout one’s lifetime and become activated under conditions relevant to that particular schema.”

I think when my ex was feeling fearful that I would abandon her (these were her fears; I never even considered leaving her until she became unfaithful later in the r/s) she would slip into vulnerable child and compliant surrenderer modes - and remain there for a while. She probably learned early in life that if she was compliant, and if she appeared sweet and needy, she would get her needs met by sympathetic adults. These strategies likely helped her survive a chaotic childhood - but the problem is that she carried them into adulthood. I could say the same for her other maladaptive modes.

It's funny; I dreamed about her last night and the night before - and I've hardly had any dreams about her in the 9 months since the b/u. I don't remember the first night's dreams, but I do remember last night. We were getting ready to go out on a Saturday night, but then began thinking we might rather stay home. I was aware during the dream that we were interacting normally (and even sexually at one point); but I was also aware that she was in the process of deciding whether to leave the r/s (and had been in that "grey zone" for a while.)  I was debating whether or not to bring the topic up to finally resolve it one way or the other; in the dream I had the same anxiety in the pit of my stomach that I felt in our actual r/s.  What stood out the most to me in the dream is that I couldn't decide if I should bring it up - I think because I was afraid to hear what she had to say. That indecisiveness in our actual r/s (especially towards the end) is what disturbs me the most about my own behavior; I'm normally a pretty decisive person.

As I laid in bed this morning and thought about the dream another thought popped into my head; her habitual lying takes on a whole new meaning in light of my first realization (that her different parts had different goals and desires).  I've always viewed her lying as something she did TO me; something purposefully manipulative so she could "have her cake and eat it too."  I think I've viewed it that way because that's the only reason I can imagine that I would lie under similar circumstances. Viewing her lying as a symptom of her internal battle - of the conflicting desires of her 'parts of self' - is another lens to view it through.

[Achaya]

It's funny; I dreamed about her last night and the night before - and I've hardly had any dreams about her in the 9 months since the b/u. I don't remember the first night's dreams, but I do remember last night. We were getting ready to go out on a Saturday night, but then began thinking we might rather stay home. I was aware during the dream that we were interacting normally (and even sexually at one point); but I was also aware that she was in the process of deciding whether to leave the r/s (and had been in that "grey zone" for a while.)  I was debating whether or not to bring the topic up to finally resolve it one way or the other; in the dream I had the same anxiety in the pit of my stomach that I felt in our actual r/s.  What stood out the most to me in the dream is that I couldn't decide if I should bring it up - I think because I was afraid to hear what she had to say. That indecisiveness in our actual r/s (especially towards the end) is what disturbs me the most about my own behavior; I'm normally a pretty decisive person.

As I laid in bed this morning and thought about the dream another thought popped into my head; her habitual lying takes on a whole new meaning in light of my first realization (that her different parts had different goals and desires).  I've always viewed her lying as something she did TO me; something purposefully manipulative so she could "have her cake and eat it too."  I think I've viewed it that way because that's the only reason I can imagine that I would lie under similar circumstances. Viewing her lying as a symptom of her internal battle - of the conflicting desires of her 'parts of self' - is another lens to view it through.

The dream sounds exactly like my experience of my relationship. After a number of breakups and distance episodes I became increasingly fearful about confronting my ex. In the beginning of the relationship I would get distressed and go right to her with my concerns, but I got conditioned to not do that. She would sometimes simply deny what I was saying about the change in her towards me, and sometimes she would validate my sense that she was thinking about leaving. Either one was horrible. As time went on she was less and less engaged, I was less and less secure, and I started the eggshell walk about then.

Like you, I find that I project my own dynamics and reasoning on her: I think "Now if I did that it would mean I did not love this person," whereas her behavior might have meant something totally different for her. I find that I feel better when I tell myself that I don't understand what her experience was in the relationship. I tried many times to find out, but she could never articulate her experience, that was why she couldn't resolve anything. She just acted out and dealt with the fallout later. Or just walked away. I believe that my partner wants to be able to create a permanent, committed relationship and function well within it. If she could do that, I believe that she would have gone farther with me.

[jhkbuzz]

It's funny; I dreamed about her last night and the night before - and I've hardly had any dreams about her in the 9 months since the b/u. I don't remember the first night's dreams, but I do remember last night. We were getting ready to go out on a Saturday night, but then began thinking we might rather stay home. I was aware during the dream that we were interacting normally (and even sexually at one point); but I was also aware that she was in the process of deciding whether to leave the r/s (and had been in that "grey zone" for a while.)  I was debating whether or not to bring the topic up to finally resolve it one way or the other; in the dream I had the same anxiety in the pit of my stomach that I felt in our actual r/s.  What stood out the most to me in the dream is that I couldn't decide if I should bring it up - I think because I was afraid to hear what she had to say. That indecisiveness in our actual r/s (especially towards the end) is what disturbs me the most about my own behavior; I'm normally a pretty decisive person.

As I laid in bed this morning and thought about the dream another thought popped into my head; her habitual lying takes on a whole new meaning in light of my first realization (that her different parts had different goals and desires).  I've always viewed her lying as something she did TO me; something purposefully manipulative so she could "have her cake and eat it too."  I think I've viewed it that way because that's the only reason I can imagine that I would lie under similar circumstances. Viewing her lying as a symptom of her internal battle - of the conflicting desires of her 'parts of self' - is another lens to view it through.

The dream sounds exactly like my experience of my relationship. After a number of breakups and distance episodes I became increasingly fearful about confronting my ex. In the beginning of the relationship I would get distressed and go right to her with my concerns, but I got conditioned to not do that. She would sometimes simply deny what I was saying about the change in her towards me, and sometimes she would validate my sense that she was thinking about leaving. Either one was horrible. As time went on she was less and less engaged, I was less and less secure, and I started the eggshell walk about then.

Yes - and that completely confounded me until I began to understand (post b/u) that how she answered my questions sometimes depended upon who was in the "lead" when I asked.

Like you, I find that I project my own dynamics and reasoning on her: I think "Now if I did that it would mean I did not love this person," whereas her behavior might have meant something totally different for her. I find that I feel better when I tell myself that I don't understand what her experience was in the relationship. I tried many times to find out, but she could never articulate her experience, that was why she couldn't resolve anything. She just acted out and dealt with the fallout later. Or just walked away. I believe that my partner wants to be able to create a permanent, committed relationship and function well within it. If she could do that, I believe that she would have gone farther with me.

I think the inability to articulate is due to the shifting sense of self.  How in the world can you explain to your partner how you're feeling if it constantly changes? How do you explain that one day you're feeling like an adult who is working on the r/s so it lasts; but the next day you're feeling like a young child that desperately needs to be cared for, and then the next day you're thinking like a teenager want to be free and out living your life and dating?  

Imagine the possible responses to our question, "Are you committed to our r/s?"

Adult:  Yes, I want this to work and I love you.

Child:   Yes, I NEED you. Don't leave me.

Teenager:  I'm not sure that this is what I want anymore.

My partner VERY much wanted to create a permanent, stable relationship with me and function well within it.  There was nothing "fake" or manipulative about her desire - it was genuine. It was just beyond her ability to do so in the sometimes mundane, day-to-day reality of an adult relationship. It's all just very sad.

[dobie]

This is what I'm struggling with my x was a 7.5 for looks one of the smartest woman I have ever know and incredibly successful as well as eight years younger .

The woman I meet now in my late 30s  just can't seem to compare .