Perhaps some other time

[Depression = 72% of members]

To my surprise a few months ago my ex said "Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids". I felt invalidated and angry because she couldn't empathize how difficult it was for me and the impact her choices had on the kids. I also realize that it was best for all parties involved that she decided to move on too

It took a few days for me to clue in that I was split good and I had become accustomed to being split bad because it was the longest period since I've know her in the last decade. It was over 2 years and close to 3.

I had decided to seize the opportunity to start bridging a gap for the kids with co-parenting. I think the kids were happier that mom and dad were talking and it was also difficult because I had to defend the sane boundaries I hadn't for some time because the court order was in place. For example her family are from out of town and divorced and visit on different weekends. It was frustrating to re-iterate that her family can adjust their schedule around the court order.

She dropped a bomb in my birthday in January that she was expecting a baby with her boyfriend and it triggered a lot of hurt. I felt like I waa starting to put this behind me. I called my T for an appointment because I was getting memories of our family and when the kids where infants; our young family and the dreams of growing old together.

My T said I had experienced a traumatic event and I need more time behind me. I have certain months were I feel triggered. The beginning of the fall because my ex had her dissociative phases. Maybe jt was seasonal or perhaps her trauma happened around this time. February is another mo th because that's when she had her dissociative phase and left.

Over the last several weeks I find that she's been criticizing me on exchange days more so than she has with sending several messages throughout the week. I also find the baby triggering. She suffers from what I think is clinical depression and each subsequent (3) pregnancy her PPD was worse. I felt terrible for what she was going through.

I find the last stages more difficult than the early stages to a degree. I felt like I had just come out of a street fight and an adrenaline rush. I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD.

I think there's a time and place for everything and I think it's a time for me to self protect. I'm also a source for her pain and have to realize that my intentions are well and not reciprocated due to her disorder.

[Mutt]

To my surprise a few months ago my ex said "Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids". I felt invalidated and angry because she couldn't empathize how difficult it was for me and the impact her choices had on the kids. I also realize that it was best for all parties involved that she decided to move on too

It took a few days for me to clue in that I was split good and I had become accustomed to being split bad because it was the longest period since I've know her in the last decade. It was over 2 years and close to 3.

I had decided to seize the opportunity to start bridging a gap for the kids with co-parenting. I think the kids were happier that mom and dad were talking and it was also difficult because I had to defend the sane boundaries I hadn't for some time because the court order was in place. For example her family are from out of town and divorced and visit on different weekends. It was frustrating to re-iterate that her family can adjust their schedule around the court order.

She dropped a bomb in my birthday in January that she was expecting a baby with her boyfriend and it triggered a lot of hurt. I felt like I waa starting to put this behind me. I called my T for an appointment because I was getting memories of our family and when the kids where infants; our young family and the dreams of growing old together.

My T said I had experienced a traumatic event and I need more time behind me. I have certain months were I feel triggered. The beginning of the fall because my ex had her dissociative phases. Maybe jt was seasonal or perhaps her trauma happened around this time. February is another mo th because that's when she had her dissociative phase and left.

Over the last several weeks I find that she's been criticizing me on exchange days more so than she has with sending several messages throughout the week. I also find the baby triggering. She suffers from what I think is clinical depression and each subsequent (3) pregnancy her PPD was worse. I felt terrible for what she was going through.

I find the last stages more difficult than the early stages to a degree. I felt like I had just come out of a street fight and an adrenaline rush. I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD.

I think there's a time and place for everything and I think it's a time for me to self protect. I'm also a source for her pain and have to realize that my intentions are well and not reciprocated due to her disorder.

[Irish Pride]

I find the last stages more difficult than the early stages to a degree. I felt like I had just come out of a street fight and an adrenaline rush. I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD.

I don't know WHAT stage I'm at, exactly, but I have my good days and my bad. I can't imagine having a child with her, so I won't even pretend to know what you're going through. But, it has been 6 months and, while finding out about her BPD has helped, it's also done more damage than when I wasn't sure.

I'd say this is DEFINITELY the time to self-protect. Her pain is hers to bear. You can only worry about yours. Sad, but true. Good luck!

[jhkbuzz]

b] I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD. [/b]

She's been doing that recently? In your recent communications and your face to face conversations? If so, what has she been saying?

[Mutt]

b] I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD. [/b]

She's been doing that recently? In your recent communications and your face to face conversations? If so, what has she been saying?

An example, my son has mild austistic traits and he's going to get assesed soon with mental health professionals. My ex said that he struggles because he played too many computer games. It was my idea to get him checked and I had spoken to his teacher because he was struggling in kindergarten with using scissors, holding pencils and his drawings were erratic. At home he sometimes emotionally dysregulates, has difficulties understanding social settings and hearing and it could be because he doesn't understand what dad is saying. I notice he's sensitive with temperatures like cold. The school assesed him and his MD and now he's going to get assesed with mental health services.

I have missed his homework a couple of times this past month and my ex sees the log books and blames me for the kids struggling in school she says that she only wants them to do their best. Albeit, the other man is very hard on my kids with yelling and swearing at them. They were struggling before I got shared custody and the teachers said that they were improving, my son has difficulties with reading.

She seldom speaks to me face to face at exchanges or in other venues. I sense a flight or flee response, I represent guilt and shame. I have run into her in public a couple of times the past couple of months and she's avoidant or looks at me with disgust and anger. I just don't know if she'll get past her shame.

[jammo1989]

To my surprise a few months ago my ex said "Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids". I felt invalidated and angry because she couldn't empathize how difficult it was for me and the impact her choices had on the kids. I also realize that it was best for all parties involved that she decided to move on too

It took a few days for me to clue in that I was split good and I had become accustomed to being split bad because it was the longest period since I've know her in the last decade. It was over 2 years and close to 3.

I had decided to seize the opportunity to start creating a gap for the kids with co-parenting. I think the kids were happier that mom and dad were talking and it was also difficult because I had to defend the sane boundaries I hadn't for some time because the court order was in place. For example her family are from out of town and divorced and visit on different weekends. It was frustrating to re-iterate that her family can adjust their schedule around the court order.

She dropped a bomb in my birthday in January that she was expecting a baby with her boyfriend and it triggered a lot of hurt. I felt like I waa starting to put this behind me. I called my T for an appointment because I was getting memories of our family and when the kids where infants; our young family and the dreams of growing old together.

My T said I had experienced a traumatic event and I need more time behind me. I have certain months were I feel triggered. The beginning of the fall because my ex had her dissociative phases. Maybe jt was seasonal or perhaps her trauma happened around this time. February is another mo th because that's when she had her dissociative phase and left.

Over the last several weeks I find that she's been criticizing me on exchange days more so than she has with sending several messages throughout the week. I also find the baby triggering. She suffers from what I think is clinical depression and each subsequent (3) pregnancy her PPD was worse. I felt terrible for what she was going through.

I find the last stages more difficult than the early stages to a degree. I felt like I had just come out of a street fight and an adrenaline rush. I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD.

I think there's a time and place for everything and I think it's a time for me to self protect. I'm also a source for her pain and have to realize that my intentions are well and not reciprocated due to her disorder.

Hey Mutt, I don't need to ramble on about the disorder because I know you know whats going on here.  What I will say though is this, you and I are both in the same boat in regards to pregnancy, and what also you need to understand is, this pregnancy is all about HER and her security in regards to losing an attachment, she doesn't love this, I mean how could she if she didn't get it from her parents? She has only done this as a means of security because she knows she now has 2 guys who will be in her life for at least 18 years as well as children that connects you to her in some way, shape or form. The pregnancy is self soothing because she now feels safe from abandonment from both parties in other words she can keep you at arms length when she feels emotions are getting to intense for her to handle.  She has merely created a safe haven of comfort for herself, this has nothing to do with her love for the new guy so anger and resentment shouldn't be an issue here.  Furthermore, you quoted that, you feel you still trigger her anger and resentment towards you, well what does that say from a logical state of mind? shes not over you entirely and if that were the case you would be met with complete indifference in regards to communication involving the kids.  So when you put everything i just said into perspective, you are dealing with a woman, who wants an attachment that wont abandon or judge her (baby) she is selfish because you also quoted that she suffered from post natal depression along with BPD, is that really the rational mind of a mature adult? its all about her, and her needs so dont take offence to the pregnancy because at the end of the day shes doing it to soothe her own inner pain and not because she has a fantasy of having a family and growing old with the new guy, that couldn't be any further from the truth.        

[jhkbuzz]

b] I find that I need to push myself and decided that I need to self protect and return to minimal contact because of how I've been a scapegoat for what's going on in her life and the baby is due around her dissociative phase and PPD. [/b]

She's been doing that recently? In your recent communications and your face to face conversations? If so, what has she been saying?

An example, my son has mild austistic traits and he's going to get assesed soon with mental health professionals. My ex said that he struggles because he played too many computer games. It was my idea to get him checked and I had spoken to his teacher because he was struggling in kindergarten with using scissors, holding pencils and his drawings were erratic. At home he sometimes emotionally dysregulates, has difficulties understanding social settings and hearing and it could be because he doesn't understand what dad is saying. I notice he's sensitive with temperatures like cold. The school assesed him and his MD and now he's going to get assesed with mental health services.

I have missed his homework a couple of times this past month and my ex sees the log books and blames me for the kids struggling in school she says that she only wants them to do their best. Albeit, the other man is very hard on my kids with yelling and swearing at them. They were struggling before I got shared custody and the teachers said that they were improving, my son has difficulties with reading.

She seldom speaks to me face to face at exchanges or in other venues. I sense a flight or flee response, I represent guilt and shame. I have run into her in public a couple of times the past couple of months and she's avoidant or looks at me with disgust and anger. I just don't know if she'll get past her shame.

I'm a little confused - what happened to ""Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids" and being split 'good'?   Are you sensing that she's starting to shift you back to "black" again?

[Mutt]

The thought has crossed my mind jammo1989. She moved away from her family and friends a decade ago and her family lives several hours away and they're not moving closer.  We have shared custody and the back and forth with driving or if a vehicle breaks down etc I sense there could be the potential for triangulation, she now has someone that she has ties too that lives in the same city and if she feels engulfed or she can't cope then she has another attachment or someone she can return to for security. It's not something I'm interested in if things don't work out between her and her boyfriend that she can return to me and then go back to him.

She hadn't pursued divorce in two years and I get the sense she wants me at arms length too. I didn't pursue divorce for strategic reasons. I filed all of the marital debt into bankruptcy protection and I removed her from my policies. All that's left is my pension. If I pursue her there's a good chance that she will pursue my pension. She may want to marry him and act impulsively and conceded my pension to get married quickly. That way it's a 50/50 chance.

[Mutt]

I'm a little confused - what happened to ""Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids" and being split 'good'?   Are you sensing that she's starting to shift you back to "black" again?

I think the reason why she wanted to be friends is because she may of been hurt with low contact and I was resilient with boundaries. I think she was worried. Her boyfriend had moved only a few months prior and she could have been triggered with intimacy. It was the first time since she had left that she's made something that resembles rapprochement. Yes, I sense I am split black again.

[jammo1989]

The thought has crossed my mind jammo1989. She moved away from her family and friends a decade ago and her family lives several hours away and they're not moving closer.  We have shared custody and the back and forth with driving or if a vehicle breaks down etc I sense there could be the potential for triangulation, she now has someone that she has ties too that lives in the same city and if she feels engulfed or she can't cope then she has another attachment or someone she can return to for security. It's not something I'm interested in if things don't work out between her and her boyfriend that she can return to me and then go back to him.

She hadn't pursued divorce in two years and I get the sense she wants me at arms length too. I didn't pursue divorce for strategic reasons. I filed all of the marital debt into bankruptcy protection and I removed her from my policies. All that's left is my pension. If I pursue her there's a good chance that she will pursue my pension. She may want to marry him and act impulsively and conceded my pension to get married quickly. That way it's a 50/50 chance.

Mutt, you know the score, I can see it from a mile off, she wants that safety net, because life is hard, but she sees it as a scary place, we can both see that from her past experiences with family and burning bridges.  She wants ties to keep you connected at arms length, and pregnancy was the best way to achieve this.  For example, when she wants to talk to you, she may say things like your son/ daughter missed you loads this week, then when she doesn't want you there she will merely use the child as a weapon.  For example, you cant see them this weekend because im busy with them.  The sole purpose of entrapment is to gain and maintain your protective role towards the child.  For example, she may buy new clothes for herself and end up asking you for more money, you know damn well shes playing you financially, but the power she maintains comes from your father role (I wont let my kids do without).  She expects you and this other guy to run around for her doing favor after favor and although you know mentally its deceiving but yet again the need to protect and provide for your kids over powers this.  You arent stupid you know whats going on here, and I don't think your in denial about it either, but just like any father your going to take the needs of your child before your own even if that means having to put up with her disordered behavior.  The new guy is a door mat thats all he is, and im not saying it to make you feel better, its just the truth, he will support her financially for the sake of his child and right now you are doing the same, with that in mind, ill leave you with this question, if you didn't father a child with her, would you still support her financially? The child Is what keeps you locked into the disorder, and you must learn to protect yourself as well as your child now, its the only way your going to be able to take time out and find yourself again.        

[jhkbuzz]

I'm a little confused - what happened to ""Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids" and being split 'good'?   Are you sensing that she's starting to shift you back to "black" again?

I think the reason why she wanted to be friends is because she may of been hurt with low contact and I was resilient with boundaries. I think she was worried. Her boyfriend had moved only a few months prior and she could have been triggered with intimacy. It was the first time since she had left that she's made something that resembles rapprochement. Yes, I sense I am split black again.

Ah... .I understand.

Your juggling act is hard because of the children; it would be best if you and your ex could get along and communicate for the sake of the children... .but she doesn't seem capable of that kind of mature interaction, does she?

My vote (if I have one) is for you to emotionally protect yourself - and not only for yourself, but so you're in a good place for your children.  I'd limit contact if you feel distressed by what's been going on.

[Mutt]

@jammo1989 I honestly think that my ex left because she wasn't coping. She would be dysregulated for very long periods of time and not returning to her emotional baseline because I was fighting with her. I didn't understand at the time that her behaviors could be traits of mental illness and I had the opportunity with looking at myself in the mirror and my behaviors. It was an act on impulse and also for her survival and there is likely a day that she won't be able to cope with him either. I can't be certain of when that will happen it could be years.

I look at my kids and hear them talk about mom with love; a love that's unconditional. My daughter is 9 and she is split good and from time to time I can see my daughter is confused with mom's behaviors. Sometimes it hurts looking at my kids and they don't understand that mom is mentally ill and there may be a day when they start questioning dad. I think about my ex and that she may want acceptance and there may also be people that know that she suffers mental illness with her family or friends, I can't tell. This is how she is - I accept that.

I have looked at the tools on the Staying Board for communication and I think I'll take this opportunity to learn them, she does respond well when I use validation or SET and there are tools I can learn like DEARMAN and I can certainly keep practicing SET

What my kids want is something I can't give they want their old family back. I don't want my kids to be mediator between mom and dad when they are older and I can also try to reconcile for the kids sake and that means co-parenting. Who knows? Perhaps I may be a source of pain and she may not be able to get past her shame? All one can do is try.

@jhkbuzz Yes you have my vote   and I do feel distressed. She's pregnant and it shouldn't concern me, it's her business. I find it emotionally hard because it triggers good ( early ) memories as a family with our kids and also precipitates memories of loss and family.

[myself]

I'd add that the pregnancy not only helps her feel attached but also likely makes her feel boxed in, which she probably struggles against in more ways than just taking it out on Mutt (because you're not still on the pedestal).

Keep the focus on you and your kids. Let as much go as you can, working through the rest. Accepting there is pain with this, becoming less and less.

Making yourself a better, healthier, more loving family while you do.

[jhkbuzz]

@jhkbuzz Yes you have my vote   and I do feel distressed. She's pregnant and it shouldn't concern me, it's her business. I find it emotionally hard because it triggers good ( early ) memories as a family with our kids and also precipitates memories of loss and family.

I understand - that's hard. 

I've come to understand that when I'm triggered I'm not of much use to anyone - I'm reactive and acting out of pain, not intellect or compassion.  Take care of yourself, first and foremost.

[BorisAcusio]

I'm a little confused - what happened to ""Mutt, you have to get over this, it's been two years and you have to be friends for the kids" and being split 'good'?   Are you sensing that she's starting to shift you back to "black" again?

I think the reason why she wanted to be friends is because she may of been hurt with low contact and I was resilient with boundaries. I think she was worried. Her boyfriend had moved only a few months prior and she could have been triggered with intimacy. It was the first time since she had left that she's made something that resembles rapprochement. Yes, I sense I am split black again.

Ah... .I understand.

Your juggling act is hard because of the children; it would be best if you and your ex could get along and communicate for the sake of the children... .but she doesn't seem capable of that kind of mature interaction, does she?

My vote (if I have one) is for you to emotionally protect yourself - and not only for yourself, but so you're in a good place for your children.  I'd limit contact if you feel distressed by what's been going on.

I agree with jhkbuzz. The contact seems to be about soothing her, packed in a guilt inducing way to get through your boundaries. Your first and foremost responsibility is to stay emotionally available to your children, getting triggered will inevitably send you to a place where you can't fully attend their needs, which is one of the main factors that lead to mental health problems in later life.

[Mutt]

I have to agree Boris Acusio I think it's guilt induced. I also want to thank everyone in the thread so far for your kind advice and support. It helps.

She had also said that whatever I'm holding unto to let go and live life. I think she meant she didn't like my boundaries because she's asked an awful lot of hours and days to have the kids on my weekends.  A  friend said don't give her any time on your time unless it's an emergency. She gets upset and the tries to illicit guilt and thank goodness for the court order.

A couple of months ago she also said she forgives me and it was hard to read that because it didn't validate what I went through with her. She said that I probably still don't understand what I did in the marriage and I think that these aren't things that I don't want to discuss. We had our time together and the r/s is over. She said she forgives me and the reality is it is her projected actions and feelings. I think she was looking for my forgiveness.

You're all right my emotional availability for the kids is what's important and I need to take care of my mental health.

[jhkbuzz]

I have to agree Boris Acusio I think it's guilt induced. I also want to thank everyone in the thread so far for your kind advice and support. It helps.

She had also said that whatever I'm holding unto to let go and live life. I think she meant she didn't like my boundaries because she's asked an awful lot of hours and days to have the kids on my weekends.  A  friend said don't give her any time on your time unless it's an emergency. She gets upset and the tries to illicit guilt and thank goodness for the court order.

A couple of months ago she also said she forgives me and it was hard to read that because it didn't validate what I went through with her. She said that I probably still don't understand what I did in the marriage and I think that these aren't things that I don't want to discuss. We had our time together and the r/s is over. She said she forgives me and the reality is it is her projected actions and feelings. I think she was looking for my forgiveness.

You're all right my emotional availability for the kids is what's important and I need to take care of my mental health.

That sounds exactly like something my ex would say.  Yours cheated on you - yes?  So did mine. How strange for them to "forgive" us.  And I'm not suggesting that I didn't make mistakes - I know I did - but the conclusion that projection is involved is probably correct.

What I've come to understand is that my ex blamed me for triggering her.  While I always try to avoid triggering anyone, it's not always possible to do avoid - triggers are highly personal and difficult to predict. She tried to make ME responsible for her triggers rather than owning them herself - rather than taking steps to manage and heal them.

I believed her and took responsibility for a while.  No more.

[Mutt]

Yes she did cheat. She is secretive. She started an emotional and physical affair around a year before she left. My two youngest were not in school and I later found out she was dropping the kids off at a neighbor and I didn't know at the time. Then she started texting him in front of me and I would ask whom she's texting and she would retort It's just a friend. I knew all of her friends for years.

It got to a point were she would leave when I arrived home from work and sometimes not return home until the next morning before school. I do believe that a lot of her guilt and shame is because of her affair and how she ended things. She did show some empathy and said "Mutt I know I left you in a bad way and I hurt you I'm sorry".

Her triggers are personal to her and mine are to me and I can't say anything remotely close to how she left or the affair because it triggers feelings of shame these were her choices. I do forgive her and I also forgive myself. I also think forgiveness is not something I need to tell her and she's not a person that I trust because she broke that trust and she's a secretive person. I'm not responsible for her feelings, I'm not her emotional caretaker.

[jhkbuzz]

Yes she did cheat. She is secretive. She started an emotional and physical affair around a year before she left. My two youngest were not in school and I later found out she was dropping the kids off at a neighbor and I didn't know at the time. Then she started texting him in front of me and I would ask whom she's texting and she would retort It's just a friend. I knew all of her friends for years.

It got to a point were she would leave when I arrived home from work and sometimes not return home until the next morning before school. I do believe that a lot of her guilt and shame is because of her affair and how she ended things. She did show some empathy and said "Mutt I know I left you in a bad way and I hurt you I'm sorry".

Her triggers are personal to her and mine are to me and I can't say anything remotely close to how she left or the affair because it triggers feelings of shame these were her choices. I do forgive her and I also forgive myself. I also think forgiveness is not something I need to tell her and she's not a person that I trust because she broke that trust and she's a secretive person. I'm not responsible for her feelings, I'm not her emotional caretaker.

How did you forgive her, Mutt?  I still struggle with that.

[Mutt]

Yes she did cheat. She is secretive. She started an emotional and physical affair around a year before she left. My two youngest were not in school and I later found out she was dropping the kids off at a neighbor and I didn't know at the time. Then she started texting him in front of me and I would ask whom she's texting and she would retort It's just a friend. I knew all of her friends for years.

It got to a point were she would leave when I arrived home from work and sometimes not return home until the next morning before school. I do believe that a lot of her guilt and shame is because of her affair and how she ended things. She did show some empathy and said "Mutt I know I left you in a bad way and I hurt you I'm sorry".

Her triggers are personal to her and mine are to me and I can't say anything remotely close to how she left or the affair because it triggers feelings of shame these were her choices. I do forgive her and I also forgive myself. I also think forgiveness is not something I need to tell her and she's not a person that I trust because she broke that trust and she's a secretive person. I'm not responsible for her feelings, I'm not her emotional caretaker.

How did you forgive her, Mutt?  I still struggle with that.

I forgave her because in my heart I don't want to hold unto feelings that may become resentment, anger or bitterness.

I think that I suffered enough in my r/s with her and I don't want to hold unto those feelings. Yes, I do feel anger and hurt from her and I think I may feel differently several years from now. It's a work in progress 

I carried a lot of feelings of resentment and anger from my FOO and the anger was directed at people that are insecure about themselves and project their feelings at others.  I own what's mine and forgo the rest, I carry enough emotional baggage and I think I deserve peace and happiness.