What does radical acceptance look and feel like?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I’m not going to respond too much to your stuff with your sponsor. I really do think that may have been a quasi-therapeutic relationship with someone who was unqualified to engage in such a process.  It also sounds like she may have triggered you.  Someone with training would have stepped back from that, or let you proceed at your own pace in the first place.  You may have to consider accepting that her intentions were good but she was engaging in a process with you that she wasn't equipped to lead.

I don't question her intentions at all. She was a wonderful lady with wonderful intentions. I just feel like she wasn't the right fit for me as a sponsor. At first I felt really guilty about feeling that way. I had my misgivings at different times but tried to work through them because I didn't want to admit my own feelings. I shoved down what I was feeling because I struggle with being able to say "this isn't working for me" without trying to analyze it to death. One thing that I know that I go from FOO was the tendency to paint others black rather than saying "this isn't working for me". Not sure if that makes sense. It is difficult to describe.

YES. This is exactly where your work lies.  You can intellectually accept them for who they are - and that's good - but you still haven't processed some of the emotional trauma that they have caused in your life.

And I don't think I can really begin to process the emotional trauma without being able to openly say and openly acknowledged that some of the stuff that I experienced WAS traumatic. A lot of times, when I tell people some of my story, they want to dig into analyzing it. I remember going to a meeting one time and I said something about something that happened early in my marriage and the first response was, "Sounds like you have a fear of abandonment." I remember being very perplexed by that. In my head, I was thinking, "Huh, the fact that I didn't immediately respond to or react to something that left me feeling hurt and confused does not mean that I have a fear of abandonment." I didn't respond out of some kind of deep seated problem that needs fixed. I didn't respond because I found it traumatic and wasn't sure how to respond.

And, there has been a lot of denial about the trauma because I didn't experience near as much crap as my siblings. I was never spanked or hit as a child but I saw all three of my other siblings get spanked. One time, my dad beat the crap out of my sister because she ran over a turtle (that happened to be mine) in the dark. To this day, I feel guilty and feel like it is my fault that my sister got hurt like that. If I hadn't had my turtle outside, that never would have happened. On an intellectual level, I can analyze the situation and I know that it wasn't my fault or my sister's fault. My parents are the ones that were in the wrong. I felt like I had no right to feel bad in that situation because my sister is the one that got hurt. What I haven't allowed myself to do is accept that I was traumatized by seeing that. It wasn't my fault and just because somebody else got hurt worse doesn't mean that I wasn't emotionally traumatized too. I witnessed a lot of crazy stuff when I was a kid but have never really said, "That was friggin' traumatic." I dismiss how it made me feel and intellectualize it and analyze it and have compassion for everybody but myself.

Your family of origin and your husband are really two separate categories, but you may find connecting “threads” between the two as you begin to dive in to process the trauma that you've experienced.

There are a lot of connecting threads. As I look at the trauma of being involved with a sex addict, I am seeing that I can't really separate it from my FOO because my ability to numb/ignore/dissociate from the trauma I experienced in the r/s with my husband is a direct result of me not processing and dealing with the trauma from childhood. Intellectually, I think I have done pretty well at dealing with everything.

That too!  This is the rub: it’s not an intellectual processing that you need to engage in; it’s the processing of your emotions.  That’s a whole different ballgame.

I am the queen of intellectualizing. I can tell you all of the different factors that have contributed to my parents behavior, my behavior, my husband's behavior, and anybody else's. I can intellectualize and know that nobody intended to hurt me. I remember one time having a discussion with my husband about how hurt I was by something that he did. He tried to dismiss me and tell me that he didn't intend to hurt me, blah, blah, blah. The analogy that I tend to use is a stubbed toe. Nobody intends to stub their toe. Does that make it not hurt? NO, it hurts like heck whether you intended to do it or not. That is why I tend to not worry too much about other people's intentions. Having other people defend or explain or try to get me to do more intellectualizing frustrates me because that is what I am best at. What I suck at is letting myself feel those raw emotions within myself. What I suck at is allowing myself to feel anything that isn't peaceful and positive. I hate the dark side of myself so I try to hide from it.

You may disagree , but it is exactly this process in which a therapist can be really helpful. I understand your feelings about therapy now that you've explained your family background. It sounds like it’s very important that you are in charge of the process, which is understandable. But I still think it is nearly impossible to process trauma without the help of a therapist.

I am not against therapists at all. I want to find one that lets me be in charge of the process and, also, I want to make sure that it is one that is well versed in trauma. I have a phone consultation with a trauma coach that deals exclusively with spouses of sex addicts. I have done too much reading about how some approaches to therapy can retraumatize a person. I think that is exactly what happened with my sponsor. She was probing me to dig deeper but was not able to listen when I tried to bring up the traumatic aspects of things. And, I am also limited on funds so it is kind of difficult to get the kind of therapist that I want for the price that I can afford. If I can get to the right place inside myself AND find the right therapist, then I am all for it.

I'm going to explain something else that my therapist told me last week - and I’m going to put this in my own words so I hope it makes sense. She was telling me that I have processed much of my breakup with my ex with my adult brain – so I’m making progress and healing.  But when we talk about my trauma from childhood (I was molested), I am still reasoning with my 7 year old brain because I’ve not processed the emotions, the shame, and the trauma surrounding those events.  I’m “stuck”.  And no amount of intellectual analysis can help me get through this – if it could I would have been healed years ago.  I can’t tell you how I’m going to process that trauma and those emotions – I've just started the journey – but as I begin making small steps of progress it feels noticeably different than when I “figure out” something on an intellectual level.  It’s a COMPLETELY different experience.

That makes perfect sense to me. And it might be part of the reason that I am having such a difficult time with some of the stuff with my husband. His behavior as a sex addict added on to some sexual trauma that I experienced as a child (molestation). Even as a child, I didn't feel like I had any reason to complain or be traumatized because I was just molested by this person and my sister was raped. With my husband, he just looked at pornography. I should be grateful that he wasn't out having affairs or drinking in bars or, or, or. Somebody always has it worse so I feel like I have no reason to complain or be upset or be traumatized. I am just being too sensitive. (I realized that me saying it was just pornography contradicts what I said about him chasing other women. There are 17 years worth of history and it is kind of complicated.)

I agree completely.  The question would be more about what’s keeping you in the relationship, not how you contributed to his infidelity. His infidelity was solely his decision.

What kept me in the relationship before we had kids is the fact that I didn't see his behavior as that bad because it was still way better than what I witnessed as a child. My husband was a saint compared to what I was used to dealing with as a child. By the time I grew up enough to realize that his behavior wasn't okay either, I had a bunch of kids. Now, I am in a position where I am choosing to stay for the kids. Choosing to stay does not mean that I can't focus on my own personal growth.

[vortex of confusion]

I’m not going to respond too much to your stuff with your sponsor. I really do think that may have been a quasi-therapeutic relationship with someone who was unqualified to engage in such a process.  It also sounds like she may have triggered you.  Someone with training would have stepped back from that, or let you proceed at your own pace in the first place.  You may have to consider accepting that her intentions were good but she was engaging in a process with you that she wasn't equipped to lead.

I don't question her intentions at all. She was a wonderful lady with wonderful intentions. I just feel like she wasn't the right fit for me as a sponsor. At first I felt really guilty about feeling that way. I had my misgivings at different times but tried to work through them because I didn't want to admit my own feelings. I shoved down what I was feeling because I struggle with being able to say "this isn't working for me" without trying to analyze it to death. One thing that I know that I go from FOO was the tendency to paint others black rather than saying "this isn't working for me". Not sure if that makes sense. It is difficult to describe.

YES. This is exactly where your work lies.  You can intellectually accept them for who they are - and that's good - but you still haven't processed some of the emotional trauma that they have caused in your life.

And I don't think I can really begin to process the emotional trauma without being able to openly say and openly acknowledged that some of the stuff that I experienced WAS traumatic. A lot of times, when I tell people some of my story, they want to dig into analyzing it. I remember going to a meeting one time and I said something about something that happened early in my marriage and the first response was, "Sounds like you have a fear of abandonment." I remember being very perplexed by that. In my head, I was thinking, "Huh, the fact that I didn't immediately respond to or react to something that left me feeling hurt and confused does not mean that I have a fear of abandonment." I didn't respond out of some kind of deep seated problem that needs fixed. I didn't respond because I found it traumatic and wasn't sure how to respond.

And, there has been a lot of denial about the trauma because I didn't experience near as much crap as my siblings. I was never spanked or hit as a child but I saw all three of my other siblings get spanked. One time, my dad beat the crap out of my sister because she ran over a turtle (that happened to be mine) in the dark. To this day, I feel guilty and feel like it is my fault that my sister got hurt like that. If I hadn't had my turtle outside, that never would have happened. On an intellectual level, I can analyze the situation and I know that it wasn't my fault or my sister's fault. My parents are the ones that were in the wrong. I felt like I had no right to feel bad in that situation because my sister is the one that got hurt. What I haven't allowed myself to do is accept that I was traumatized by seeing that. It wasn't my fault and just because somebody else got hurt worse doesn't mean that I wasn't emotionally traumatized too. I witnessed a lot of crazy stuff when I was a kid but have never really said, "That was friggin' traumatic." I dismiss how it made me feel and intellectualize it and analyze it and have compassion for everybody but myself.

Your family of origin and your husband are really two separate categories, but you may find connecting “threads” between the two as you begin to dive in to process the trauma that you've experienced.

There are a lot of connecting threads. As I look at the trauma of being involved with a sex addict, I am seeing that I can't really separate it from my FOO because my ability to numb/ignore/dissociate from the trauma I experienced in the r/s with my husband is a direct result of me not processing and dealing with the trauma from childhood. Intellectually, I think I have done pretty well at dealing with everything.

That too!  This is the rub: it’s not an intellectual processing that you need to engage in; it’s the processing of your emotions.  That’s a whole different ballgame.

I am the queen of intellectualizing. I can tell you all of the different factors that have contributed to my parents behavior, my behavior, my husband's behavior, and anybody else's. I can intellectualize and know that nobody intended to hurt me. I remember one time having a discussion with my husband about how hurt I was by something that he did. He tried to dismiss me and tell me that he didn't intend to hurt me, blah, blah, blah. The analogy that I tend to use is a stubbed toe. Nobody intends to stub their toe. Does that make it not hurt? NO, it hurts like heck whether you intended to do it or not. That is why I tend to not worry too much about other people's intentions. Having other people defend or explain or try to get me to do more intellectualizing frustrates me because that is what I am best at. What I suck at is letting myself feel those raw emotions within myself. What I suck at is allowing myself to feel anything that isn't peaceful and positive. I hate the dark side of myself so I try to hide from it.

You may disagree , but it is exactly this process in which a therapist can be really helpful. I understand your feelings about therapy now that you've explained your family background. It sounds like it’s very important that you are in charge of the process, which is understandable. But I still think it is nearly impossible to process trauma without the help of a therapist.

I am not against therapists at all. I want to find one that lets me be in charge of the process and, also, I want to make sure that it is one that is well versed in trauma. I have a phone consultation with a trauma coach that deals exclusively with spouses of sex addicts. I have done too much reading about how some approaches to therapy can retraumatize a person. I think that is exactly what happened with my sponsor. She was probing me to dig deeper but was not able to listen when I tried to bring up the traumatic aspects of things. And, I am also limited on funds so it is kind of difficult to get the kind of therapist that I want for the price that I can afford. If I can get to the right place inside myself AND find the right therapist, then I am all for it.

I'm going to explain something else that my therapist told me last week - and I’m going to put this in my own words so I hope it makes sense. She was telling me that I have processed much of my breakup with my ex with my adult brain – so I’m making progress and healing.  But when we talk about my trauma from childhood (I was molested), I am still reasoning with my 7 year old brain because I’ve not processed the emotions, the shame, and the trauma surrounding those events.  I’m “stuck”.  And no amount of intellectual analysis can help me get through this – if it could I would have been healed years ago.  I can’t tell you how I’m going to process that trauma and those emotions – I've just started the journey – but as I begin making small steps of progress it feels noticeably different than when I “figure out” something on an intellectual level.  It’s a COMPLETELY different experience.

That makes perfect sense to me. And it might be part of the reason that I am having such a difficult time with some of the stuff with my husband. His behavior as a sex addict added on to some sexual trauma that I experienced as a child (molestation). Even as a child, I didn't feel like I had any reason to complain or be traumatized because I was just molested by this person and my sister was raped. With my husband, he just looked at pornography. I should be grateful that he wasn't out having affairs or drinking in bars or, or, or. Somebody always has it worse so I feel like I have no reason to complain or be upset or be traumatized. I am just being too sensitive. (I realized that me saying it was just pornography contradicts what I said about him chasing other women. There are 17 years worth of history and it is kind of complicated.)

I agree completely.  The question would be more about what’s keeping you in the relationship, not how you contributed to his infidelity. His infidelity was solely his decision.

What kept me in the relationship before we had kids is the fact that I didn't see his behavior as that bad because it was still way better than what I witnessed as a child. My husband was a saint compared to what I was used to dealing with as a child. By the time I grew up enough to realize that his behavior wasn't okay either, I had a bunch of kids. Now, I am in a position where I am choosing to stay for the kids. Choosing to stay does not mean that I can't focus on my own personal growth.

[vortex of confusion]

If your parents sent you to therapy only to turn around and try to prove you were the problem when you trusted them? (Because parents are supposed to know better, to have your best interests at heart) You were betrayed by the people who you should have been able to trust the most. I'm sorry this happened to you. Is it possible you feel betrayed by this sponsor since you trusted her to know better, to have the answers?

OMG, I hadn't even thought about it from this angle. I think you may be right. When she started defending my mother (even though she clearly stated she wasn't), I felt very betrayed. I felt like she was trying to make me responsible for understanding my mother and having compassion for her. And, I felt like she was taking all of the things that I said out of context.

This is what I was told when I was trying to talk about my mother:

"The way I see it, we all have choices in this life, even when life hands you the exact opposite of what you bargained for.  I don't have one iota of control over some stuff that happens to me.  I didn't cause it and most likely, I can't fix it.  I can, however, control my response to the situation if I have the know how and desire.    I can choose to learn from it and become better.  Or I can choose to stew in it and be bitter.  Better seems the obvious choice, but what if there is no one I trust enough anymore to help me be better?

You told me that your Dad has also "strayed", for lack of a better word to use and be diplomatic about.  That doesn't make him a bad father or a despicable person.  You love and respect him and you should.  Nevertheless, we both know the damage it does to the spouse.    I suspect your mother was just as hurt as you and me, when she first found out.  I can't imagine how anyone could not be hurt by it.  I don't know her and I am not defending her behavior or attitudes, but is it just possible that she didn't have anybody to turn to to help her heal?  Is it possible she felt trapped?  Is it possible she also felt unworthy, not good enough, less than?  Is it possible that because she never healed, she is attempting to justify her own behavior by spilling the beans on who she feels caused her to be the way she is?   She and I are from another generation.  Most women in our generation were never paid the same as a man doing the same job.  I was, but I was likely an exception to the rule.   Most women didn't have a choice but to tough out the marriage, because they couldn't earn enough to support the lifestyle they wanted for themselves and their kids.  So they may have felt trapped in prison when they were innocent of the crime that put them there.  In our generation, there was always this underlying tone that "boys will be boys".  Women had little choice but to "suck it up." She didn't think she could leave.  You've said yourself that you don't want to be a single Mom because it's just too hard."

I keep reading this over and over because I want to figure out why the heck it is causing such a huge response in me. I feel like I am being unreasonable to be upset by this.

[Suzn]

She took sides. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her.

Is it possible that you needed her to see your side? To hear you? You are standing right in front of her (basically), you are not invisible.

[jhkbuzz]

... .I don't think I can really begin to process the emotional trauma without being able to openly say and openly acknowledged that some of the stuff that I experienced WAS traumatic... .there has been a lot of denial about the trauma because I didn't experience near as much crap as my siblings. I was never spanked or hit as a child but I saw all three of my other siblings get spanked. One time, my dad beat the crap out of my sister because she ran over a turtle (that happened to be mine) in the dark. To this day, I feel guilty and feel like it is my fault that my sister got hurt like that. If I hadn't had my turtle outside, that never would have happened. On an intellectual level, I can analyze the situation and I know that it wasn't my fault or my sister's fault. My parents are the ones that were in the wrong. I felt like I had no right to feel bad in that situation because my sister is the one that got hurt. What I haven't allowed myself to do is accept that I was traumatized by seeing that. It wasn't my fault and just because somebody else got hurt worse doesn't mean that I wasn't emotionally traumatized too. I witnessed a lot of crazy stuff when I was a kid but have never really said, "That was friggin' traumatic." I dismiss how it made me feel and intellectualize it and analyze it and have compassion for everybody but myself.

Same here.  My "default" is to rationalize by saying, "Now, I know that many people have had it waaaayy worse than I have." And that's true. But that doesn't make it any less true that I was traumatized. My mother raged; she'd often explode unexpectedly - and hit; I was often slapped in the face and hit with a metal spoon. Added to that is the fact that I was molested - and it's fair to say that I've been traumatized. I too am learning that I need to acknowledge the trauma, then go back and process the terror, the intense sadness, and the helplessness I experienced.  It sucked.

Your family of origin and your husband are really two separate categories, but you may find connecting “threads” between the two as you begin to dive in to process the trauma that you've experienced.

There are a lot of connecting threads. As I look at the trauma of being involved with a sex addict, I am seeing that I can't really separate it from my FOO because my ability to numb/ignore/dissociate from the trauma I experienced in the r/s with my husband is a direct result of me not processing and dealing with the trauma from childhood. Intellectually, I think I have done pretty well at dealing with everything.

I understand this as well.  I scribbled something on a post-it note one day - it's on my computer in front of me.  It says, "I cried so much in the last 4 years of the relationship with M - how did I stay?  Because my childhood trained me to exist in my sadness and tears - I cried a lot then as well."

That too!  This is the rub: it’s not an intellectual processing that you need to engage in; it’s the processing of your emotions.  That’s a whole different ballgame.

I am the queen of intellectualizing. I can tell you all of the different factors that have contributed to my parents behavior, my behavior, my husband's behavior, and anybody else's. I can intellectualize and know that nobody intended to hurt me... .what I suck at is letting myself feel those raw emotions within myself. What I suck at is allowing myself to feel anything that isn't peaceful and positive. I hate the dark side of myself so I try to hide from it.

I had a feeling... . It's a blessing and a curse.  And it can't protect you from your emotions.  Hiding from them is a strategy that doesn't work. I'm sure you have figured this out already.

You may disagree , but it is exactly this process in which a therapist can be really helpful. I understand your feelings about therapy now that you've explained your family background. It sounds like it’s very important that you are in charge of the process, which is understandable. But I still think it is nearly impossible to process trauma without the help of a therapist.

I am not against therapists at all. I want to find one that lets me be in charge of the process and, also, I want to make sure that it is one that is well versed in trauma. I have a phone consultation with a trauma coach that deals exclusively with spouses of sex addicts. I have done too much reading about how some approaches to therapy can retraumatize a person. I think that is exactly what happened with my sponsor. She was probing me to dig deeper but was not able to listen when I tried to bring up the traumatic aspects of things. And, I am also limited on funds so it is kind of difficult to get the kind of therapist that I want for the price that I can afford. If I can get to the right place inside myself AND find the right therapist, then I am all for it.

I understand - I did some research before I chose a therapist.  I picked an EMDR therapist because they deal specifically with the processing of trauma.

I'm going to explain something else that my therapist told me last week - and I’m going to put this in my own words so I hope it makes sense. She was telling me that I have processed much of my breakup with my ex with my adult brain – so I’m making progress and healing.  But when we talk about my trauma from childhood (I was molested), I am still reasoning with my 7 year old brain because I’ve not processed the emotions, the shame, and the trauma surrounding those events.  I’m “stuck”.  And no amount of intellectual analysis can help me get through this – if it could I would have been healed years ago.  I can’t tell you how I’m going to process that trauma and those emotions – I've just started the journey – but as I begin making small steps of progress it feels noticeably different than when I “figure out” something on an intellectual level.  It’s a COMPLETELY different experience.

That makes perfect sense to me. And it might be part of the reason that I am having such a difficult time with some of the stuff with my husband. His behavior as a sex addict added on to some sexual trauma that I experienced as a child (molestation). Even as a child, I didn't feel like I had any reason to complain or be traumatized because I was just molested by this person and my sister was raped. With my husband, he just looked at pornography. I should be grateful that he wasn't out having affairs or drinking in bars or, or, or. Somebody always has it worse so I feel like I have no reason to complain or be upset or be traumatized. I am just being too sensitive. (I realized that me saying it was just pornography contradicts what I said about him chasing other women. There are 17 years worth of history and it is kind of complicated.)

There's that mental process again. You were traumatized - period, end of story.

I agree completely.  The question would be more about what’s keeping you in the relationship, not how you contributed to his infidelity. His infidelity was solely his decision.

What kept me in the relationship before we had kids is the fact that I didn't see his behavior as that bad because it was still way better than what I witnessed as a child. My husband was a saint compared to what I was used to dealing with as a child. By the time I grew up enough to realize that his behavior wasn't okay either, I had a bunch of kids. Now, I am in a position where I am choosing to stay for the kids. Choosing to stay does not mean that I can't focus on my own personal growth.

I understand.  I stayed with my BPDex for the sake of my stepdaughter.

[Sunfl0wer]

I have similar coping mechanisms that are being described.

I have cPTSD... .abuse from birth until 20's.

The pain we have had to endure (as persons who've gone through trauma)was just unbearable... .easier to minimize it and compare it to someone who had it worse.  Back during childhood... .I loved watching those lifetime movies in hopes of finding a movie worse than the one I was living.  Sometimes, it would also help me get in touch with my own pain and relate and grieve a bit... .letting out some repressed feelings.  Sometimes I'd compare myself and pity myself more... .as well, yea... .there were five movies on different traumatic topics, but I felt like heck... .it isn't even relatable for them to make a movie of a girl who went through fifty traumatic events in the span of 14yrs... .they just focus on one at a time... .I must still be weird!

Then, I'm always intellectualizing.  I will even intellectualize that to do so is at least a higher level coping skill than denial... .or another I've previously done.  Lol. The truth is though, it is a form of detaching, and I'd like to embrace myself more vs detaching.

I've also put myself in a job that focuses on people and their difficulties.   I LOVE my job!  I also realize that it is because when I'm focusing on helping others at work, I generally get to lose myself... .or at least it is a highly effective way to disconnect from my experience and completely get lost in someone else's.  Also, being accustom to abuse in many forms and situations, I feel quite capable of adapting to others and I use this at work in a good way.  I am not saying what I do at work is a bad thing... .it isn't... .I'm just saying that I realize there is a comfort for me to be in a nurturing position at work, where others rely on me... .I feel strong... .and put aside my more vulnerable emotions. I think this is an important dynamic about me because it is likely why I was drawn to the r/s with uNPD/BPDex as I was able to "lose" myself, focus on helping him navigate parenting after divorce, helping him deal with his ex... .etc.

I'm sure the key I'm looking for is loving and finding myself... .then there will be no need to get lost helping others.  Then I can just enjoy that part of what I do, and help when I want vs use it as a way to remove myself from part of my experience. (It is not a conscious thing btw... .just what I end up attracting and drawing in)

[vortex of confusion]

She took sides. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her.

Is it possible that you needed her to see your side? To hear you? You are standing right in front of her (basically), you are not invisible.

Yes! That is exactly what I wanted and needed. Really, I wasn't as concerned about her seeing my side as much as I was concerned with being heard. My mother isn't the one that reached out to her, I was. My mother isn't the one that is trying to heal, I am. My mother is NOT my responsibility. It was one more instance of me being treated like a child that is supposed to love and respect my mother. It felt like I was being put back in that place where the parent is always right and the child is wrong because the parent knows best.

Most of the time, I feel like I tend to stay pretty invisible. I am only vulnerable with people that I think are safe. I thought she was safe so I slowly started to open up and share with her. The minute I felt like she took my mother's side, I was done. She could have said a million different things to hold me accountable for MY stuff. Trying to get me to see my mother's side of things is NOT my stuff. I don't need to see my mother's side of things to explore the feelings and fears that I have that deal with my mother. Just like I don't need to think about my husband's side of things to explore my feelings and fears surrounding the stuff that happened with my husband.

[vortex of confusion]

Same here.  My "default" is to rationalize by saying, "Now, I know that many people have had it waaaayy worse than I have." And that's true. But that doesn't make it any less true that I was traumatized. My mother raged; she'd often explode unexpectedly - and hit; I was often slapped in the face and hit with a metal spoon. Added to that is the fact that I was molested - and it's fair to say that I've been traumatized. I too am learning that I need to acknowledge the trauma, then go back and process the terror, the intense sadness, and the helplessness I experienced.  It sucked.

I don't think that I have even begun to tap into that stuff. I feel like I get close and then somebody will say things like my sponsor said and then I shut down again and go back to rationalizing and intellectualizing. One of the things that I couldn't seem to communicate with my sponsor is that I was telling her this stuff from the place of a detached observer. I was explaining what happened to explore my fears and to explain why I am afraid of being like my mother. It is a fear that I have rationalized and intellectualized to the point of absurdity. I am logical enough to see that if I don't deal with this crap now, then it is quite likely that I will become like her. I am not naive enough to say that I am nothing like my mother. I got just enough stuff from her that it is likely that I could go down that road IF I don't do something NOW. To sit here and have somebody try to take the abusers side, feels very traumatic. It puts me back into a place where I feel like maybe I wasn't traumatized after all. Maybe I should feel the way that I do about my mother because she has her own story and was acting the way she did because of her own wounds. Blah, blah, blah. I have done that for years and it is time to stop. I have to regain ground and it makes me that much more hesitant to share because I don't want to hear the same things that I have been hearing from myself and others.  

I understand this as well.  I scribbled something on a post-it note one day - it's on my computer in front of me.  It says, "I cried so much in the last 4 years of the relationship with M - how did I stay?  Because my childhood trained me to exist in my sadness and tears - I cried a lot then as well."

I didn't exist in sadness and tears. I existed with a smile. No matter what happens or how bad something is, I can usually find a way to minimize it and be happy. If I ever get to a point where I can cry and grieve and process, I might drown myself in the tears. I am soo afraid of allowing myself to feel some of this stuff. I don't know that I could handle it.

There's that mental process again. You were traumatized - period, end of story.

Thank you! I think I need to get a sticky note and paste it on my forehead to remind myself that I was traumatized and it is okay to feel confused, angry, upset, scared, or whatever it is that I feel. Feeling the trauma isn't the same as hating anybody or having ill will against them. And it certainly isn't stewing in it.

I understand.  I stayed with my BPDex for the sake of my stepdaughter.

I was actually going to leave at one point last year. I was serious enough to talk to the kids about it and even had another place lined up for me and the girls to live. It upset the kids so bad that they got physically ill. They don't know about all of the stuff that has gone on behind the scenes with me and their dad. All they know is that sometimes dad can be grumpy and immature and annoying. I don't think I can find it in me to rip apart their family. That would be traumatizing to them and I do NOT want to do that to my kids.

[vortex of confusion]

Thank you!

Then, I'm always intellectualizing.  I will even intellectualize that to do so is at least a higher level coping skill than denial... .or another I've previously done.  Lol. The truth is though, it is a form of detaching, and I'd like to embrace myself more vs detaching.

I could relate to your entire post but this part stood out because I have also intellectualize and analyzed my ability to intellectualize and analyze. Most of the time when people react to my story as though I am feeling something they have no friggin' idea that, yes, I might feel something but certainly not to the extent that they think I am/should. The minute I star having the feels about something, I get busy analyzing and intellectualizing to make sure that it is okay for me to feel whatever it is that I am feeling.

[Sunfl0wer]

To be more accurate... .  I was rationalizing my intellectualizing vs further intellectualizing it! 

[jhkbuzz]

If I ever get to a point where I can cry and grieve and process, I might drown myself in the tears. I am soo afraid of allowing myself to feel some of this stuff. I don't know that I could handle it.

I have a quote on my mirror, "Fear is a liar."  I read it every day.

You won't fall apart if you deal with your past - you will heal and have a fuller, richer life than if you spend the rest of it hiding from emotions and memories that can no longer hurt you.

I don't say that ^ lightly - I'm about to dive in myself.  I just keep thinking about how free I'll feel on the other side of it.

[vortex of confusion]

If I ever get to a point where I can cry and grieve and process, I might drown myself in the tears. I am soo afraid of allowing myself to feel some of this stuff. I don't know that I could handle it.

I have a quote on my mirror, "Fear is a liar."  I read it every day.

You won't fall apart if you deal with your past - you will heal and have a fuller, richer life than if you spend the rest of it hiding from emotions and memories that can no longer hurt you.

I don't say that ^ lightly - I'm about to dive in myself.  I just keep thinking about how free I'll feel on the other side of it.

I need to remember that: "Fear is a liar."

I had a phone meeting with a trauma coach that specializes in dealing with partners of sex addicts. I am going to start working with her. I have another appointment with her next week. Talking to her was amazing. I told her that I had tried to read Codependent No More and she told me to put it in the recycle bin. 

She said some things that were uncomfortable to hear but I am okay with it. I am feeling very off kilter as a result. She assured me that if I venture into areas that are outside of her areas of expertise, she will let me know. But, she did validate that a lot of other people have had the same experience that I had with the particular program that I was trying. I have a book coming in the mail to read.

[jhkbuzz]

If I ever get to a point where I can cry and grieve and process, I might drown myself in the tears. I am soo afraid of allowing myself to feel some of this stuff. I don't know that I could handle it.

I have a quote on my mirror, "Fear is a liar."  I read it every day.

You won't fall apart if you deal with your past - you will heal and have a fuller, richer life than if you spend the rest of it hiding from emotions and memories that can no longer hurt you.

I don't say that ^ lightly - I'm about to dive in myself.  I just keep thinking about how free I'll feel on the other side of it.

I need to remember that: "Fear is a liar."

I had a phone meeting with a trauma coach that specializes in dealing with partners of sex addicts. I am going to start working with her. I have another appointment with her next week. Talking to her was amazing. I told her that I had tried to read Codependent No More and she told me to put it in the recycle bin. 

She said some things that were uncomfortable to hear but I am okay with it. I am feeling very off kilter as a result. She assured me that if I venture into areas that are outside of her areas of expertise, she will let me know. But, she did validate that a lot of other people have had the same experience that I had with the particular program that I was trying. I have a book coming in the mail to read.

That's ^ awesome!

I think the key will be taking your time to see if this person is a good "fit" for you.  You will need an awful lot of trust in the person you are processing the trauma with. If it doesn't feel right, keep looking!

By the way, I read a few "codependent" books as well - some at the suggestion of my therapist.  It confirmed what I knew from the get-go:  I'm not codependent.  I may be a thousand other things, but that ain't one of 'em!

[vortex of confusion]

I think the key will be taking your time to see if this person is a good "fit" for you.  You will need an awful lot of trust in the person you are processing the trauma with. If it doesn't feel right, keep looking!

So far, she seems like somebody that would be perfectly fine either way. It's all about helping me process the trauma so that I can thrive instead of survive. It is all about me and my goals and what I want to achieve.

By the way, I read a few "codependent" books as well - some at the suggestion of my therapist.  It confirmed what I knew from the get-go:  I'm not codependent.  I may be a thousand other things, but that ain't one of 'em!

LOL. I am so sick of the word codependent, that and enabling. If I never hear those words again, it will still be too soon. 

That was one of the things that I asked her today. I brought up some stuff, as a bit of a test, and asked her how it could be considered enabling or codependent. She gave me the answer I wanted to hear. Some people may have a problem with that but I have done enough reading to know that I was in a situation where there wasn't really a right answer. In all honesty, I think that any choice that I would have made could be turned around and labeled codependent or enabling. Pretty much the only thing that I could have done would have been to file for a divorce on the spot. And then, people could have a field day with the whole fear of engulfment or afraid of commitments or something like that.

And I told her about my ability to analyze and intellectualize and how I could probably tell her everything that I have done wrong along with everything else everyone else did wrong in different situations. I told her, "I am an intelligent person. How did I get into this situation? I should have been intelligent enough to avoid stuff like this." She told me, "You live in your head. You need to connect your head to your heart." UGH! That is going to be easier said than done.

[jhkbuzz]

I think the key will be taking your time to see if this person is a good "fit" for you.  You will need an awful lot of trust in the person you are processing the trauma with. If it doesn't feel right, keep looking!

So far, she seems like somebody that would be perfectly fine either way. It's all about helping me process the trauma so that I can thrive instead of survive. It is all about me and my goals and what I want to achieve.

By the way, I read a few "codependent" books as well - some at the suggestion of my therapist.  It confirmed what I knew from the get-go:  I'm not codependent.  I may be a thousand other things, but that ain't one of 'em!

LOL. I am so sick of the word codependent, that and enabling. If I never hear those words again, it will still be too soon.  

That was one of the things that I asked her today. I brought up some stuff, as a bit of a test, and asked her how it could be considered enabling or codependent. She gave me the answer I wanted to hear. Some people may have a problem with that but I have done enough reading to know that I was in a situation where there wasn't really a right answer. In all honesty, I think that any choice that I would have made could be turned around and labeled codependent or enabling. Pretty much the only thing that I could have done would have been to file for a divorce on the spot. And then, people could have a field day with the whole fear of engulfment or afraid of commitments or something like that.

And I told her about my ability to analyze and intellectualize and how I could probably tell her everything that I have done wrong along with everything else everyone else did wrong in different situations. I told her, "I am an intelligent person. How did I get into this situation? I should have been intelligent enough to avoid stuff like this." She told me, "You live in your head. You need to connect your head to your heart." UGH! That is going to be easier said than done.

OHMIGOD my therapist said that to me once!

She was right.

And I am connecting them. Slowly but surely.  And I think that's why my processing and healing feels so much different than my usual, straightforward intellectual understanding.

[vortex of confusion]

And I am connecting them. Slowly but surely.  And I think that's why my processing and healing feels so much different than my usual, straightforward intellectual understanding.

I like living in my head. Logic is so much safer than those messy feelings.  

I wonder about starting a thread about connecting the head and the heart. I am guessing that there must be other people that have been told similar things. I am kind of scared of facing some of this stuff.

[jhkbuzz]

And I am connecting them. Slowly but surely.  And I think that's why my processing and healing feels so much different than my usual, straightfoward intellectual understanding.

I like living in my head. Logic is so much safer than those messy feelings.  

I wonder about starting a thread about connecting the head and the heart. I am guessing that there must be other people that have been told similar things. I am kind of scared of facing some of this stuff.

FEAR IS A LIAR!

Fear is telling you that you will break down, fall to pieces, crumble to bits.

Not true, not true, not true. It will be painful but you will heal and become more whole than you've ever been.  Me too.  Sometimes I have glimpses of what it will be like to live without the burdens I've been carrying - especially surrounding the molestation - and the lightness and joy I feel is almost breathtaking.

I think it would be a great thread to start - it would be wonderful to hear from people who have been through the process.

[Suzn]

I told her that I had tried to read Codependent No More and she told me to put it in the recycle bin.  

This would be concerning for me vortex. Not that I think you're codependent, I don't know you well. It's that this coach would assume to know you well enough in one phone call to tell you that you aren't codependent and that a very credible book is rubbish.    Granted it's well known there are behavior patterns in certain types of relationships however I don't think one has to be codependent to see value in it anymore than one has to be BPD to see the value in a DBT workbook.

[vortex of confusion]

I told her that I had tried to read Codependent No More and she told me to put it in the recycle bin.  

This would be concerning for me vortex. Not that I think you're codependent, I don't know you well. It's that this coach would assume to know you well enough in one phone call to tell you that you aren't codependent and that a very credible book is rubbish.    Granted it's well known there are behavior patterns in certain types of relationships however I don't think one has to be codependent to see value in it anymore than one has to be BPD to see the value in a DBT workbook.

I should clarify that I am specifically dealing with a spouse with sex addiction. There are two different models that are typically used for spouses of SA. One is all about the codependent aspects of it that seem to focus solely on telling the partner of the addict to look at her (his) role in things. It completely bypasses the trauma side of things. Because I am wanting the focus on dealing with the trauma side of things, Codependent No More isn't a helpful book. When or if I get to a point where I want to explore codependency and stuff like that, it might be a useful book.

I will be honest. The book made me mad and triggered even more feelings of "This is all my fault. If I were somehow a better person, none of this would have happened." I have done enough of that. I have done enough research to know what it is that I want to work on. Right now, I need someone that will validate the fact that some of the things that happened between me and my husband were traumatic and abusive. If one spouse goes to another spouse and says, "Hey, I did something wrong, will you forgive me?" And the other spouse responds, "I will will forgive you if you give me a <insert sexual favor>." Whether or not the act is done is irrelevant. The act of being put into a position where one feels like the only way to gain the forgiveness of a spouse is abusive and traumatic. I feel like I was sexually and emotionally abused by my spouse. Beating me over the head with questions like, "What was your roll in it?" really feels a lot like, "You deserved to be treated that way. You deserved to have your husband choose porn over you." I didn't deserve those things. It doesn't matter what I did or didn't do. I did not deserve to be treated like that.