Is it worth my time to try and address my sister's comments?

[Naughty Nibbler]

I'd like some input as to whether is is worth my time to try and address my sister's recent voice mail comments.

Unfortunately, I can't go full "no contact" with my uBPD sister for several months or perhaps a year.  My Dad passed in Oct and then my Mom passed in Feb.  We have to deal with estate issues and the sale of my parents home.

Unofficially, I've stopped phone conversations with my sister, after a rage event 6 weeks ago.  I avoided emails for several days, but have had to resume email interactions to address estate matters.  It didn't take me long to get reinforcement in regard to my decision to stop phone conversations.

I got a voice mail from my sister on Monday.  I feel rather guilty, in that I've assigned a ringtone to her that starts with ":)on't you answer the phone, the one who's calling is nuts. . ." and then I have an evil looking graphic that appears on my phone.  (guess it's my way of venting). The fact that she is calling, is clearly identified.

Anyway, during the course of the voice mail, my sister worked in the following comments to me: "put your big girl panties on", "you need to grow up",  "get off your pedestal", "you aren't perfect either" "what's wrong with you" and finally "I can't understand why you are acting the way you are, it doesn't make any sense".

I discussed the voice mail with my therapist on Monday.  She requested to listen to it and I played it for her.  I haven't decided if it is worth it to address any of the critical/condescending comments my sister made in the voicemail .  I've already sent a vanilla reply that addressed the actual estate information she needed. I kept the reply to specific estate issues and did not mention her other remarks.

I don't know if I have it in me to walk on enough egg shells to construct a therapeutically acceptable email to address my sister's offensive comments.  It was suggested that I draft something and bring it into my next therapy session on Monday, but I've lost interest in it.

During the most recent rage event 6 weeks ago (in person), she called me an "F"ing "B" and proceed to yell out a list of things she hated about me.  She ended with telling me that I can't get along with anyone.  I seem to have become her scapegoat.

MY QUESTION IS:  :)o you think it would be worth my effort to dance on a lot of egg shells and try to draft an email response?  I sent my sister an email a few weeks ago, where I told her: That her behavior on the rage day was unacceptable, that I felt threatened and that although her behavior on that day may be the norm for her, it will not be the norm for me.

At this point, I'm frustrated with trying to give my sister 3 compliments before any criticism and to address issues by saying "when I'm (fill in the blank: yelled at, called names, etc.), I feel _____.  No matter how neutral or warm and fuzzy I try to phrase it, my sister just won't recognize she said anything offensive.  Her famous line is: "you're not perfect".  Is it worth the frustration to keep trying to make my sister own up to anything she is doing, or should I give up, keep doing what I've been doing and just suck it up until we can get through probate and home sale.

[Linda Maria]

Hi Naughty Nibbler!  Can so relate to what you're going through - have been in a very similar position for the last 2 years, trying to sort out estate matters with my uBPDsis.  I can only tell you what worked for me - and it was going NC as far as possible.  I communicated via solicitors and estate agents as far as possible regarding the estate, if I sent her anything directly, I copied all other parties to stop her from replying direct to me twisting everything I'd said.  Most of the time she didn't respond anyway, but I wanted everything to be out in the open.  Prior to this I just found that however nice, vanilla, business-like, neutral my communications were - they would always trigger a truly nasty, and completely irrelevant response.  She never replied once with anything sensible regarding the estate, she just made everything a nightmare.  So based on my personal experience I would say definitely don't waste any time concocting an appropriate response, because it will most likely be misinterpreted, used as a stick to beat you with, or ignored.  It worked for me - eventually when I stopped responding to her, the hate mail did die down, and she stopped contacting me directly for the most part.  Although the hate campaign is ongoing as far as telling other people stories about me - she doesn't bother me with them directly anymore - as she knows she won't get a response.  I think my uBPDsis made everything so hard with the estate in order to keep some sort of control over me - she's big on control.  When it is finally over - soon I hope - there will be absolutely no need at all for me to contact her ever again, and vice versa, and I look forward to that day.  Good luck!

[Pilate]

One idea about writing is the possibility that just the process for you, not your sister, might be helpful even if you don't send it to your sister. Sending an email long after the event might be difficult because the feelings your sister had the moment she left the voicemail won't be the same. Maybe it's just the process of writing for you--what you could say in a therapeutic way even if you can't send it?

Some members have suggested looking at messages and reversing the pronouns since projection is a way of dealing with the shame and overwhelming emotions and emptiness people with BPD have as part of the illness.

For example:Anyway, during the course of the voice mail, my sister worked in the following comments to me: "put your big girl panties on", "you need to grow up",  "get off your pedestal", "you aren't perfect either" "what's wrong with you" and finally "I can't understand why you are acting the way you are, it doesn't make any sense".

Revised: "[I need to] put my big girl panties on", "I need to grow up",  "[I need to]get off my pedestal", "I am not perfect either" "what's wrong with me" and finally "You can't understand why I am acting the way I am, it doesn't make any sense".

Your response to your sister kept to the facts of the estate and sounds polite and firm. Staying focused on your goal of resolving the estate seems like a way to remain balanced when your sister is whirling all around. The feelings she vented on you in the voicemail may be past by the time you sent the email, so by not mentioning her "not related to the estate comments," you keep the process moving forward to closure. That's sort of a win in a way.

I'm sorry for the loss of both of your parents in such a short time and the lack of space for grieving that you have as a result of your sister.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Thanks Linda Marie & Pilate!

Probably best to do some practice communication.  May just be therapy for me and I may never deliver the message(s) directly to  my sister.  Who knows, some day I may have a good opportunity/situation to use some new found tools.

Thanks again.

[Turkish]

Calling you what she did was certainly abusive. You did the right thing by keeping your response "strictly business."

I'm having to co-parent for the next 15 years with my uBPDx. Of course it's a different r/s, but with an emotionally dysregulating person, we can "feed the fire" so to speak, or we can withdraw by asserting healthy boundaries. We have a communication tool, BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm- see here for more) which we encourage co-parents to use. I often use it verbally, sometimes leaving out one F (friendly   but I'm not unfriendly... .just detached.

Sometimes it may trigger them (as I did my ex at our daughter's recent bd party... .she walked away muttering and shaking her head... .she was nice to me later) or it may trigger a more aggressive extiction burst.  For me, focusing on what needs to be done helps stabilize me emotionally.

It may help to look at the lessons and learn SET, DEARMAN, not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain), but pwBPD are emotionally limited (of course it can vary widely), and it's helpful to process that we may never get the validation we want from an invalidating person, no matter how we phrase things. Sometimes, the best we can do is just learn how to reduce the conflict, step back, and radically accept that they are who they are.

[Naughty Nibbler]

TURKISH:

Thanks for your input and sharing.  I glanced at a few of the lessons earlier today.  Think I'll put the lessons on some Keynote slides on my Ipad.  I will likely take me some time and practice to learn the lessons. With the Ipad, I can easily work in the lessons a few minutes at a time.

Naughty

[educator]

I think it's a good idea to write one and not send it, if for anything documentation for you of her behavior if at some point down the road you feel guilty for not speaking with her. 

I really like the BIFF approach... .thanks for that link Turkish!

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.  I was reading my bible app yesterday and it was actually about responding to nasty emails and all of the things you wrote were exactly what it said to do   

If it were me, I wouldn't bother addressing it.  My T brought up a good point to me the other day about the pwBPD in my life.  She said it doesn't matter what I do, it's going to make the pwBPD angry with me.  So, I need to focus on what's good for me.  It sounds like you have no interest in addressing it, so maybe just let it go.  I hope the estate planning goes quickly for you.  When my dad passed, it took a few months. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

EDUCATOR:

Thanks so much for your input!

You mentioned using a Bible app, so I thinking you are religions.

My BPDs is very religious. I think she may have initially joined her current church, because they have a fellowship group for older adults. My BPDs attends church regularly and faithfully attends a home Bible Study with a group of female church members.

I have read posts where others mention that they are the main scapegoat for the BPD.  So, I guess I can see that I'm not alone in that My BPD can seem so normal around others.  I know my sister has spoken to some of her friends about our problems and I'm likely presented as "the crazy one".

I guess I'm frustrated in that I can't understand how my sister can spend so much time reading the bible and then interact with me in an abusive manner.  The constant comment I've gotten from her is, "your not perfect".  None of us are perfect, but there is a far cry between being imperfect and being verbally abusive.

My BPDs has even indicated that she likes to help people and prides herself in helping other's at her church who are "odd and unliked".  She has been assisting a man at her church who is on psychiatric drugs, I'm not clear what his diagnosis is, but he doesn't interact  normally, he is cheap, demanding and appears to see my BPDs as a mother figure (no romantic interest by my sister). He wants my sister to drive him to dr. appts and sit with him, but doesn't offer money for gas, has my sister as his emergency contact). He likes to go to church functions or functions at church member's homes for the purpose of getting a meal, but not contributing anything.

A few months ago, my sister got involved with a young woman who has drug and alcohol abuse issues, had a baby (while using).  My sister put herself in the middle of this girl's drama.  The baby was removed from the woman's care and the baby was placed with a member of her family.  Most people would stay out of the situation, but my sister got overly involved with this woman. 

Both situations draw upon one's patience.  Can't understand why my sister get't involved with these situations, when her plate is already full.  She is able to interact with these folks.

It appears as if my sister ignores all her Bible Study/Knowledge when she interacts with me.  It's as if I'm the enemy (perhaps "the devil" in her eyes).  Hard to understand.

[educator]

Naughty Nibbler... .the church is full of all types of people, hypocrites included. My DH has always been turned off to church because  of this.  We go on and off.  The pwBPD in my life has often used bible versus as a weapon against DH and I... .the whole honor thy mother and father one    For me, being a Christian means that I am not perfect, but I strive to be honest, accepting and good to others.  The other day my DD9 asked me why I was still willing to allow MIL to come to our house when MIL wouldn't allow me to go to hers and I told DD9, "Well... .we are supposed to treat others the way we want to be treated.  So, that is what I do."  DD9 said why bother if grandma didn't do the golden rule and I told her that doesn't give me the right to do that to MIL. Sometimes I think some people who attend church quite often see it as a get out of jail card.  Wow... .look at me... .I go to church every Sunday... .my beliefs make me better than you.  Being a Christian isn't about that.  IMHO, there is nothing more annoying than someone who acts as though they are better than you simply because they attend church when they don't apply anything they learn there.

I think your sister probably 'helps' those people to feel good about herself and for a sense of self worth.  For her, it might not be about helping them, but about being able to tell others how she helped them.   Who knows.  I know with the pwBPD in my life, that she LOVES drama and lives for it.  It sounds like your sister seeks to create drama.  When she rages at you, that's drama.  I've read before about histrionic personality disorder.  Some people just love drama... .getting involved in others drama just to be around drama.

[Naughty Nibbler]

EDUCATOR:

Thanks for the additional input!  A "drama addict" - interesting thought.  You might be right, I'll have to ponder over that for awhile.  Think I'll bring that thought to my therapist on Monday and run it by her.  

You're right, sometimes people who don't go to church can be kinder than some who go to church regularly.

Thanks again!

Naughty

[Linda Maria]

Hi Naughty Nibbler!  I have been following your posts, because our situations have similarities.  I totally agree with Educator - my uBPD sis I would definitely describe as a drama addict, and I have thought that for many years.  I also have found it odd - the paradox between how awful she has been to me for no reason, and yet she does certainly have a kind side, and has been a good friend to some people in the past, although when she ends up doing too much for others she starts to complain quite quickly!  I have started to think, with my sister, that she is successful with people when she feels superior to them, and feels she is in a better position.  I think as the older sister, though only by 13 months, she always felt superior to me, and probably hugely resented the fact that I ended up with the husband and kids, the bigger house, the better paid job, total independence from my parents from my mid-twenties onwards - i.e. a normal life - whereas she never really moved out of home properly, despite owning her own home before I did.  She was only able to really show her resentment of me once my Mum passed away, and as I haven't lived with her for nearly 30 years - although she's always been difficult - it didn't impact on my life massively.  Things always go wrong eventually for her in work situations - and I think it is because she does think she is superior and probably doesn't treat anyone she sees as inferior, or more junior, or less qualified, in a very nice way, she can be terribly patronising, often when it's completely unnecessary and inappropriate.  As anyone in corporate life knows, one is often surrounded by people who are difficult, not nice, rubbish at their job and lazy, but somehow, one has to find a way to work with them, whilst not being used or manipulated by them.  She is not able to manage these situations at all, and whereas real friends, will to some extent walk on eggshells, and listen patiently to the stories, and not challenge her, even if it does all sound a bit far-fetched - you can't get away with this sort of behaviour in a work situation, and I think that is what has happened over the last few years.  Otherwise, it's a huge coincidence that every place she has ever worked has been full of people who seem to be against her, make her life difficult, do terrible (i.e. completely unbelieveable things).  At work, you just have to get on with it, and not many people will put up with a prima donna for too long, especially if they are not terribly likeable, or are not outstanding and indispensable, and especially if the are not the boss.  So she seems to keep repeating the same patterns.  Hurts my brain thinking about it!

[Naughty Nibbler]

LINDA MARIE:

Thanks for your thoughts! 

Sometimes, I have speculated that my sister is jealous of the fact that I worked nonstop from the age of 18 (was actually a month shy of 18 when I started) through age 61.  I have reaped the benefits of that and working 35 years at a large corporation afforded a lot of nice benefits as well.

We all make our own choices in life.  My uBPDs made a poor choice for a husband and she had a poor work history and no skills.  Anytime along the way, she could have taken some classes and learned some skills that could have qualified her for a better job.  She  didn't want to sit in an office all day.  Her excuse about taking a class(s) was that "they made her too nervous".

I'd have to say, I think I came out of the womb nervous. Both parents had anxiety issues.  Mom was rare in that she managed to deal with her "nervousness" without any negative behavior.  I knew I couldn't use anxiety/nervousness that for an excuse for NOT putting myself in situations that caused me anxiety/stress. I knew I had to be responsible for myself.  I figured out early on that I didn't want to marry a man like my father (angry, critical and hard to get along with).  It became clear to me that I'd be better off if I never married, rather than entering into a miserable marriage and then a divorce.  There is something worse than having some lonely times by yourself - it is worse to be lonely while in a marriage. 

I never asked my parents for money, but that was a frequent thing for my sister. It didn't bother me, as I felt blessed to have a good job.  But I always worked hard to keep my job and refine skills.

I'll always remember the advice that was given to me by an instructor in a Business Law class.  He said, "you should always be preparing for your next job".  This comment was stated approx. 25 years ago, but there was never a time that is holds more true than now.

I've been a fan of talk radio for many years.  Before cell phones became an essential tool, I've had headphones glued to my ears, .  I have a small an/fm radio that clips to my waistband.  I attach headphones, and then go about my day (housekeeping, gardening, surfing the web, etc) listening to tech shows, financial investment shows, legal shows, etc.  Can't tell you how valuable it has been for me throughout the years and how much valuable information I have learned.

For several years, I have suggested to my sister that she listen to some of these shows.  Podcasts make it  so easy to listen to information at your convenience.  She refuses to listen to anything other than religious program or spend hours of time chatting on the phone.  I think it is great to study the Bible and learn/discuss religious matters.  But life is better with some balance.

Anyway, I can bring the water to my sister, but I can't make her drink.  I've decided that I have to stop trying to share information with her,  and finally understand that my enthusiasm for sharing something I learned is taken a "talking down to her". 

My sister absolutely hates it when I have headphones on anytime I've been around her.  She tries to treat me like a child and demand that I take them off.  I use a "clip over ear" type of earphone, so I don't have any problem hearing what is being said around me.  I've had to laugh several times, over the last few months when my sister argued during a phone call about something she thought she said and didn't (during a phone call).  She would say, "If you take those headphones off, you'd hear what I'm saying".  I'd point out that I'm not wearing headphones when I talk to you on the phone.  Then she would comment, "you need to clean your ears out".

Sorry to drone on.  Sometimes it is good to vent about my uBPDs.

Thanks, Linda Marie, for bringing out some thoughts.  I find it extremely valuable to gain input from others.  It can be like a therapy session and you never know when a comment that someone makes can help you down a path of therapeutic thoughts.

Naughty