Going from NC to LC to Contact.

[HappyChappy]

Been No Contact (NC) for 17 months or so, but considering hooking back up. My mom is a highly enabled, pathological BPD and I can’t really remember anyone ever checking her behaviour. Most people found her scary and to be avoided. But I guess I saw her as a toothless dog, as she’s not that bright, but now I’m aware of BPD I realise her constant nagging etc ... . was actually very effective.  

My childhood PTSD is the official reason we've not link up. When I’m triggered I can’t be in the same room as her. However, I don’t want to avoid her, as I feel it’s part of my recovery to face my fear. When my dad was “dying” we visited him in hospital and my BPD used this brief encounter to hammer my buttons hard. She had insulted my son (she’s triangulated my kids) so immediately insulted him when we met again.

We have so many boundaries to set up now, yet my BPD has already been ridiculing “silly boundaries”. Her GC is my NPD bro, so one boundary is we will never see him again, and she will constantly nags that we do. The other is my BPD will never be left alone with our kids. But I realise we will have to put up with the constant stream of subtle jibes and “that’s not what I meant” comments. My BPD is a very aggressive nag, in that she never ever gives up until she has 100% compliance. She will repeat the same request however many times you change the subject. So any tips ? Anyone else hooked back up ? Forewarned is forearmed.  

[educator]

My BPD is a very aggressive nag, in that she never ever gives up until she has 100% compliance. She will repeat the same request however many times you change the subject.

My MIL is uBPD/unpd.  She acts very similarly to this.  She just won't let things go.  She doesn't see her youngest son often, yet the 5 days he was here, she decided to create a whole lot of drama.  We were NC for 3 1/2 years.  This week, the entire family (DH, DD9, DD4, MIL, FIL, BIL, BIL's GF and myself) all got together... .first time in over 3 years.  Everything was great... .until the next day when MIL said I could no longer come to her house (nothing happened) and nagged DH when he took DD4 over there.  You would think she'd just be happy her sons and grandchildren were together, but nope!  Wasn't good enough for her.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you thinking of going LC and breaking NC?  Is it to face your fears?  You said that you see your mom as a toothless dog, but many others find her scary.  Yet, it seems she triggers your PTSD and she triangulates your family.  From an outside perspective... .that doesn't seem like a toothless dog.  Seems like she does some damage to you and your family.  Just some food for thought.

Anyhow... .from my perspective as someone who has just gone through a long time of NC and then watching DH try to come out of that twice, it is hard.  I'm not sure how you went NC or how your mom reacted.  My MIL walked out on our family in a huff 3 1/2 years ago.  It was the second time she did it, so we said no more... .she wasn't seeing our kids to walk in and out as she got mad at us for setting up boundaries.  Over that time, she did nasty things to us like:  sending nasty postcards bragging about vacations, dropping off everything Dh gave her and all of his baby pictures along with cut up pictures of us, stalking DD9's school bus and picketing in front of our house.  It was messy. 

The first time he broke NC was around Christmas this year.  His goal was to attempt to work things out with his mom, then bring our DD's back into it.  Well... .that worked for like 2 weeks.  Because DH and I wouldn't guarantee MIL unlimited, unsupervised access to our DD's and because we didn't apologize for taking her grandchildren away, DH couldn't work it out.  That was when she decided to picket in front of our house and I called the cops on her.  It was a mess.  We were LC with her at the time that happened. 

The second time he contacted her was after he and I had a HUGE fight.  He's a SAHD and felt he had no where to go, thought I was leaving him, etc.  So, he went back to her and spoke with her for like 2 weeks.  I had no idea, but I could see his behaviors towards me changing... .he was pretty awful to me, brining up things that never happened , etc (that's what his mom does... .she lies and makes stuff up to turn people against each other).  Anyhow, DH admitted that we were wrong to take the kids away, that she could see the kids as long as they didn't have other commitments and that she could have unsupervised visits.  He did all of this without talking to me about our children.  She was basking in glory.  He even took the DDs' out of school, without my knowledge, to see her because it have been '4 years and 4 years is too long!'  Actually... .it was just a little over 3 years, but whatever.   This all happened about 5 weeks ago (the blowup about 3 weeks ago).

Anyhow... .now he's going back to LC with her.  We've worked things out and she's amped up the crazy big time.  BIL has been in town this week and we all hung out one day (got along just fine)... .the very next day MIL stated I could no longer go to her house because I wouldn't talk to her by myself and have an honest conversation.  So... .basically, she put DH in a horrible position.  DD9 is angry with MIL from all the things that have transpired over the past 3 years and won't see her unless I'm there.  So, it was pretty awful.  Only DH and DD4 could go over there and she ended up attacking DH while he was at her house visiting with BIL.  So, now his vision is that he'll see her once a month.  I'm not sure that is going to be good enough for her. 

Sorry for the long story, but that was my experience.  It's messy.  Before you contact her, the one thing I'd suggest is having a plan for what you want contact to look like.  DH did that the first time and it was much easier to disengage when she was unwilling to accept his boundary.  The second time, it was a free for all and I think it's going to be harder to disengage. 

I hope it works out for you and that you don't have the same experience that I have had.

[HappyChappy]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you thinking of going LC and breaking NC?  Is it to face your fears?  You said that you see your mom as a toothless dog, but many others find her scary.  Yet, it seems she triggers your PTSD and she triangulates your family.  From an outside perspective... .that doesn't seem like a toothless dog.  Seems like she does some damage to you and your family... . 

... .Over that time, she did nasty things to us like:  sending nasty postcards bragging about vacations, dropping off everything Dh gave her and all of his baby pictures along with cut up pictures of us, stalking DD9's school bus and picketing in front of our house.  It was messy... . 

... .The second time he contacted her was after he and I had a HUGE fight.  He's a SAHD and felt he had no where to go, thought I was leaving him, etc.  So, he went back to her and spoke with her for like 2 weeks. 

A very helpful response, that was “food for thought”. Sorry to hear about the massive agro your BPD has caused. Picketing outside your house is so outrageous it’s almost comical. Must have been awful. I’m imagining an angry woman with placards marching in a circle – on her own !   

You remind me of my wife’s perspective. In that, logically NC makes sense. But like your other half, there’s an emotional tie, which the BPD uses to manipulate with. But the emotional aspect is what makes us human. Your guard fell when you had a HUGE argument with your partner. My BPD has been stirring things big time between me and my wife.

You’re right my mom isn’t a toothless lion, she just presents that way (waif behaviour) sometimes. But my BPD has not been so bad in that my dad feeds her with narcisstic supply. Does your BPD have a good daily source of narcisstic supply to pacify her ? My BPD was terrible to me as a child, but more recently she’s been doing the subtle digs and sh*t stirring – the sort of stuff they can easily say “Don’t be so sensitive” or “That’s not what I meant” to. Rather than the audacious out in the open stuff you BPD is doing. I guess I know when my dad dies my BPD will become audacious (desperate) again. 

Isn’t it ridiculous that these BPD think harassment is the way to get your attention. Normal people, apologies and try and be nice to you, but a BPD goes the opposite way. So I guess, I need to stick to my boundaries and pull the plug if they start audacious harassment again. I’m assuming I’ll have to weather all the subtle insults and triangulation, and draw the line at the obvious crap. My wife recons it needs to be permanent NC – she may well be right. What are your plans ? 

[educator]

So I guess, I need to stick to my boundaries and pull the plug if they start audacious harassment again. I’m assuming I’ll have to weather all the subtle insults and triangulation, and draw the line at the obvious crap. My wife recons it needs to be permanent NC – she may well be right. What are your plans ? 

One of the things I learned through all of this was that I probably needed to step back and just not talk about my MIL much to my husband.  Yes... .he wanted NC for 3 1/2 years, but the guilt really did a number on him and he was quite often depressed. I probably should not have suggested he remain NC and instead just listened to him.

His plans are to remain in contact with his mom as he feels better (no guilt) and I'm not sure what that will look like for him.  My DD9 doesn't want to see her and I'm not allowed over there, so DD9 and I will probably be NC for awhile. I was willing to be LC with my MIL and 'play nice' at family get togethers, but it wasn't good enough for my MIL.  She wants me to admit that everything is my fault and I refuse to do that.  My MIL said she'd prefer not to see DD4 as I will turn DD4 against her like I did DD9   )  You know, because picketing, stalking, sending nasty postcards, etc. make MIL look like an innocent.  So, what I see happening is DH being LC with mom.

My BPD has been stirring things big time between me and my wife.

This happens to us often.  When DH and I got into a huge fight, MIL was able to isolate him from me.  From what I've seen, MIL often isolates people.  She has very few close friends and almost no family (she is also NC with her sister).  MIL is a waif, like your mom and often sits and plots and manipulates people.  Just two weeks ago, MIL was trying to turn DH against my family.  She tried to turn BIL's Gf against me, she tried to manipulate BIL's visit so my DD9 hardly got to see him.  It was pretty horrible.  The one thing I have learned is that if I temper my reaction and try to ignore it, then things do tend to die down.  My MIL likes drama.  If I don't feed it, the fire kind of dies.

There are ways to deal with people with BPD.  Medium chill can work, though with my MIL, it doesn't work well.  I've tried it.  My BIL gives MIL no information and I think that is the best thing to do with pwBPD.  I've asked my DH not to tell his mom anything about what I am up to.  She doesn't need to know.  If she asks, he can just say, "Educator is doing fine."  So, if you are wanting contact with your mom, I would suggest sticking to mundane topics like weather, gardening, pets, etc. 

Best of luck to you!

[HappyChappy]

I've seen, MIL often isolates people.  She has very few close friends and almost no family (she is also NC with her sister). 

Tell me about it. My BPD managed to isolate my Dad. She kept coming up with reasons why his friends could never visit. She had us in bed by 7pm (right up to age 14) because that's when Dad got home from work. We weren't allowed out of bed in the morning until our BPD got up. So never spoke to our Dad until the weekends.  She had really good reasons for it all - but I realise it's all part of the isolation. Ironically she like you BPD has isolated herself.

Your recommendation of not telling the BPD is perfect. They need to know your room 101 in order to manipulate. But although my BPD can go waif like, her normal mode is

Queen/Which. So she interrogates you like the Gestapo. I've realised I was never allowed to keep anything secret. She would steam open letters, listen in on all phone conversations. It was a mothers right, apparently. So I need to practice not spilling all the beans, as I was brought up to.  But I kind of resent having to be so guarded.

Best Of Luck with your BPD, if she starts picketing again, have you considered putting it on U-tube ? She's probably like the attention.

[educator]

LOL at the YouTube suggestion!  My DH put the pictures I took on facebook, probably wasn't the best idea. 

My MIL has isolated her husband for years.  Since they moved here like 6 years ago, he hasn't really gone back to his hometown.  I was shocked to hear he was going on a 10 day trip with his brothers this summer and glad for him.  I thought maybe she had changed and the 3 years of counseling helped, but she is still having difficult behaviors with us.

Sorry about your dad, but that sounds about right.  The first thing my MIL did when she saw DD9 was talk badly about me.  DH was there for some of it, but MIL kept pulling DD9 aside and DH had  no idea the extent to which she grilled her (as you stated, like the gestapo).  That is my entire reason for not meeting with MIL one-on-one.   

[exodus]

I haven't even made my intro thread yet, but I just had to reply to this.  What exactly does your therapist expect you to talk about with your mother once you've re-initiated contact?  It sounds like up until now you didn't want to talk to her and didn't have any other reason to talk to her, so what are you supposed to say to her now and how long/frequent do the visits have to be before the therapist is satisfied?

IMO "facing your fears" only makes sense if the fear was an irrational one to begin with.  This sort of fear on the other hand is completely reasonable, like not wanting to be caged up with a rabid animal.  It's hard to see what benefit something like this could possibly have.

[exodus]

OOPS!  Looking at this again, I have to apologize... .it looks like somehow I must have confused the OP with part of some other thread I was reading at the same time.  Specifically how I was under the impression that this was a therapist's idea rather than your own.  Still it's difficult for me to understand the whole motivation.  Anyway keep us posted on how it goes and good luck.

[HappyChappy]

IMO "facing your fears" only makes sense if the fear was an irrational one to begin with.  This sort of fear on the other hand is completely reasonable, like not wanting to be caged up with a rabid animal.  It's hard to see what benefit something like this could possibly have.

You make a very good point, thanks.

[deux soeurs]

I am not sure I can offer advice you've haven't tried.  I tried several attempts to have a relationship with my dBPD sister but it always ended in my going NC.  My sister abused me emotionally, relentlessly as a child.  She is many years older than I.  In her 60's... .Any boundary I put in place she eventually broke.  We even discussed boundaries and what they are, etc.  Silly me, thinking you can reason with a person whom is mentally ill.  I can say I NEVER allowed her to get close to or near my kids.  She did make several attempts to email them at times in attempt to scare them and/or cause trouble.  I am afraid I found NC is the only safe thing I can do for myself and my kids.  My kids want nothing to do with her.  I had to have the hard talk with them about their aunt.  Just make sure you make the choice that is best for you and your family.  Also never forget, even when they seem "normal" they are not and will explode at any trigger.