My Progress is Being Tested

[Depression = 72% of members]

Throughout my life I've been in therapy and I've had periods of NC with my NPD and BPD mother. As therapeutic as NC and therapy can be, it's not everything.  The real test of my progress is dealing with them one on one in real life.  

My narcissistic borderline mother called me tonight and she wanted me to come look at one of her rental houses and tell her how to fix it up and landscape it.  I've been in this predicament before and doing anything for my mother is a big fat waste of time.  I told her to call a contractor.   I had to listen to the ' someone in the family should know about my properties and what to do if I die' and other comments that really just amount to her being in typical N style.  I didn't get upset that she has this vacant house and that I desperately need a home because I'm in a terribly abusive relationship and living next door to a convicted psychopath murderer that keeps attacking my husband and I.   She knows all about that.  I didn't get upset that my mother doesn't care about me being abused or that I have two broken teeth now that need repairing and no money. I did feel slightly offended that she expected me to come see the house and offer my ' free' advice when I need an affordable home.  That just seemed rather heartless. Sort of evil actually. Nope, noone of those things got to me but then during her pity whining she made a comment about how other families don't behave like we do and she said it in her distressed childish tone like ' poor her'.   I laughed and said, ' Yeah mom, you're right.  We have never had any unconditional love in our family.  My grandmother felt she had to pay everyone to come visit her, my brother would never let me do anything for him because he was terrified of owing me."   She talked right over me and said ' Oh, you just interpret it that way because you have such low self esteem and didn't feel worthy' and I said ' no, that's not the case and you know he's been this way for many years with everyone including you... .nonetheless why do you suppose I have low self esteem mom and she said, ' I don't know?".  I was about to respond to that but she again very abruptly interrupted me and said, ' but you don't feel that way about me do you?  I mean I didn't give you anything and hold it over your head did I?"  I said, ' Yes you did mother.  Everything you did for me, you held over my head even the basic stuff that you were supposed to do because you were my mother.  I owed you for bringing me into the world" and she hung up on me  as always.  :)ISCARD !

So, here's my reaction and lesson learned:

Why in the world did I even bother to speak the truth into that dark empty hole?  I did it for me, because I've never addressed that issue before and I'm glad that I did but it doesn't really make me feel any better because there was no one to receive the information who valued it.   I feel proud that I was able to stay calm and speak the truth but I also felt a pang of self doubt - like I was wrong, that I was being too harsh or that my memory was 'off'.  I almost began doubting my own sanity but I snapped right back into the real world.  Something saved me. Maybe I'm just so fed up with all the N BS. I still need to enforce stronger boundaries. I need to stay away from her and be more realistic about my dire situation at home in my marriage. I  need to develop more confidence and believe that I don't need her. She isn't going to help me with my problems, she's no support, she's nothing to me.  I put down the phone and I told myself that I CAN get myself out of this house and marriage without her and I don't have to compromise any part of myself to do that.   Folks, I'll never engage in any confrontation with my mother or my husband again.  It's a big fat waste of time to express the truth or your true feelings to a narcissistic borderline and for many, it can be a tremendous emotional set-back.  Granted the experience and my response to it helps me to gauge where I'm at in my own recovery  but I already knew that I don't need anyone in my life that I can't have an intelligent and compassionate conversation with- especially a mother that has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old.  My life sucks right now and I need a good honest friend- not a selfish mother. I must accept that I can never be me around my mother on any level.  Even if it's for a cup of tea I would need to leave a part of me outside the door in order to relate to her on her terms in her world.  I won't do that anymore.  Recovery is about recovering the true me and I'm not about to risk undoing any progress I've made.  It's difficult enough living with BPD/NPD husband.  Ugggh.      

[Leaving]

Throughout my life I've been in therapy and I've had periods of NC with my NPD and BPD mother. As therapeutic as NC and therapy can be, it's not everything.  The real test of my progress is dealing with them one on one in real life.  

My narcissistic borderline mother called me tonight and she wanted me to come look at one of her rental houses and tell her how to fix it up and landscape it.  I've been in this predicament before and doing anything for my mother is a big fat waste of time.  I told her to call a contractor.   I had to listen to the ' someone in the family should know about my properties and what to do if I die' and other comments that really just amount to her being in typical N style.  I didn't get upset that she has this vacant house and that I desperately need a home because I'm in a terribly abusive relationship and living next door to a convicted psychopath murderer that keeps attacking my husband and I.   She knows all about that.  I didn't get upset that my mother doesn't care about me being abused or that I have two broken teeth now that need repairing and no money. I did feel slightly offended that she expected me to come see the house and offer my ' free' advice when I need an affordable home.  That just seemed rather heartless. Sort of evil actually. Nope, noone of those things got to me but then during her pity whining she made a comment about how other families don't behave like we do and she said it in her distressed childish tone like ' poor her'.   I laughed and said, ' Yeah mom, you're right.  We have never had any unconditional love in our family.  My grandmother felt she had to pay everyone to come visit her, my brother would never let me do anything for him because he was terrified of owing me."   She talked right over me and said ' Oh, you just interpret it that way because you have such low self esteem and didn't feel worthy' and I said ' no, that's not the case and you know he's been this way for many years with everyone including you... .nonetheless why do you suppose I have low self esteem mom and she said, ' I don't know?".  I was about to respond to that but she again very abruptly interrupted me and said, ' but you don't feel that way about me do you?  I mean I didn't give you anything and hold it over your head did I?"  I said, ' Yes you did mother.  Everything you did for me, you held over my head even the basic stuff that you were supposed to do because you were my mother.  I owed you for bringing me into the world" and she hung up on me  as always.  :)ISCARD !

So, here's my reaction and lesson learned:

Why in the world did I even bother to speak the truth into that dark empty hole?  I did it for me, because I've never addressed that issue before and I'm glad that I did but it doesn't really make me feel any better because there was no one to receive the information who valued it.   I feel proud that I was able to stay calm and speak the truth but I also felt a pang of self doubt - like I was wrong, that I was being too harsh or that my memory was 'off'.  I almost began doubting my own sanity but I snapped right back into the real world.  Something saved me. Maybe I'm just so fed up with all the N BS. I still need to enforce stronger boundaries. I need to stay away from her and be more realistic about my dire situation at home in my marriage. I  need to develop more confidence and believe that I don't need her. She isn't going to help me with my problems, she's no support, she's nothing to me.  I put down the phone and I told myself that I CAN get myself out of this house and marriage without her and I don't have to compromise any part of myself to do that.   Folks, I'll never engage in any confrontation with my mother or my husband again.  It's a big fat waste of time to express the truth or your true feelings to a narcissistic borderline and for many, it can be a tremendous emotional set-back.  Granted the experience and my response to it helps me to gauge where I'm at in my own recovery  but I already knew that I don't need anyone in my life that I can't have an intelligent and compassionate conversation with- especially a mother that has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old.  My life sucks right now and I need a good honest friend- not a selfish mother. I must accept that I can never be me around my mother on any level.  Even if it's for a cup of tea I would need to leave a part of me outside the door in order to relate to her on her terms in her world.  I won't do that anymore.  Recovery is about recovering the true me and I'm not about to risk undoing any progress I've made.  It's difficult enough living with BPD/NPD husband.  Ugggh.      

[ShieldsUp12]

Leaving,   .

I see how much you are suffering from what you are writing, and also how strong you are.

You also really, really helped me with some of my own issues. I'm going to have to re-read to make sure it's "sinks in" for me, because everything you have written rings so valid to me.

Folks, I'll never engage in any confrontation with my mother or my husband again.  It's a big fat waste of time to express the truth or your true feelings to a narcissistic borderline and for many, it can be a tremendous emotional set-back.  Granted the experience and my response to it helps me to gauge where I'm at in my own recovery  but I already knew that I don't need anyone in my life that I can't have an intelligent and compassionate conversation with- especially a mother that has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old.

THIS. YES. Thank you!

You CAN do this without them, Leaving. Are there resources in the community/ state/ country that you live in that can help? It is so scary to think about striking out on your own, but the alternative of staying where you are now doesn't sound so great. You are stronger than you know.

[Leaving]

Leaving,   .

I see how much you are suffering from what you are writing, and also how strong you are.

You also really, really helped me with some of my own issues. I'm going to have to re-read to make sure it's "sinks in" for me, because everything you have written rings so valid to me.

Folks, I'll never engage in any confrontation with my mother or my husband again.  It's a big fat waste of time to express the truth or your true feelings to a narcissistic borderline and for many, it can be a tremendous emotional set-back.  Granted the experience and my response to it helps me to gauge where I'm at in my own recovery  but I already knew that I don't need anyone in my life that I can't have an intelligent and compassionate conversation with- especially a mother that has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old.

THIS. YES. Thank you!

You CAN do this without them, Leaving. Are there resources in the community/ state/ country that you live in that can help? It is so scary to think about striking out on your own, but the alternative of staying where you are now doesn't sound so great. You are stronger than you know.

Thank you Shields and I'm glad that maybe something I wrote inspired you in some positive way.  I don't know what your story is so please share more.

I must admit that my thoughts were very scattered when I wrote my post.  There's always so much to say, so much wisdom to glean from every experience with a PD person that my thoughts get jumbled up like numbers in a lotto machine.

I am gaining strength and confidence but I have a long way to go.  My interaction with my mother was good in that it helped me shift my focus on what I really need to do in order to change my life.  I need to develop more confidence- especially around people like my mother.  Confidence is going to help me achieve what I need to.  When we are desperate and frozen with fear, we make stupid decisions or saying the wrong things that end up harming us more in the long run. CONFIDENCE, CONFIDENCE!

This may sound cheesy but because of my situation with my psychopath neighbor, I decided to take firearm lessons from a professional training school.  I didn't want to buy a gun but I needed to protect myself.   The neighbor's attacks became very violent last December and my NBPD husband and his over inflated ego coupled with his wimpy interior fuel the altercations.  I was so nervous during the first class and I was the only female which made me feel intimidated.  I had never shot a gun in my life.  Turns out that I was the best marksman in my class and the instructor was seriously impressed! My scores were higher than most professional marksmen! I guess my Appalachian roots were showing :D  I noticed that I had developed so much more confidence just from taking the classes that I didn't feel I needed the gun!  I didn't feel afraid of my neighbor anymore.  I know I need to protect myself ( he really is dangerous) but I don't feel afraid of the man, I see him as a pathetic little man who must bully nice people to feel like something in the world.  Confidence is the key that unlocks all doors of opportunity and happiness. 

My financial situation is bad and it won't get any better even after I leave.  I've got a therapist and the women's shelter provides some counseling and other services but I have no friends.  It's a long story but not a complicated one- I allowed myself to become very isolated over the course of my marriage- especially in the last ten years.   I simply couldn't handle the altercations and passive aggressive punishments from my jealous husband. I shut down and basically became a breathing corpse.   I had been NC with my mother for 4 years but when my husband began having delusional psychotic episodes last summer and fall, I contacted her out of sheer fear and desperation. I was completely alone and living in a hotel.  I needed to know that I had at least one person out in the world and I needed a place to store some valuables.  Rest assured, the N is always there, ready to pounce on the weak and fragile with a smile on her face. " Velcome dahling" says the vampire.  Thankfully, I am strong enough and wise enough to resist her but I'm so tired of having to invest so much energy into creating strategies in how to dodge her attacks and how to minimize escalation.  Life is too precious to waste it on managing them and compromising any part of ourselves to do that. 


I know what my mother is but as a human and her daughter, I still find it difficult to wrap my mind around how selfish and insensitive she is and how I've tolerated it and metabolized it my entire life.  I'll never understand or relate to such character.  I don't want to live in her house, I don't want to rent her house, I don't want anything to do with her and yet, I still expected her to at least fake some respect and concern for my situation.  Did it ever once enter her mind that it might hurt my feelings that she expects me to provide a free estimate/consult for her rental house when I need a job and a place to live?  She won't pay me to do any work for her or other rentals that she manages even though I'm quite qualified as a contractor to do so.  She'll instead hire an incompetent friend/victim and pay him and then whine about how it wasn't done properly and needs to be redone AND expect me to rescue her for free.

I don't think G-d could have sent me a more clear warning! 

[ShieldsUp12]

I must admit that my thoughts were very scattered when I wrote my post.  There's always so much to say, so much wisdom to glean from every experience with a PD person that my thoughts get jumbled up like numbers in a lotto machine.

This is me, too! I think one of the reasons I stopped T was that I actually had to untangle my own thoughts in order for it to be a successful process. It's quite a task to sort through a tangled, enmeshed life after 40 some odd years.

I know what my mother is but as a human and her daughter, I still find it difficult to wrap my mind around how selfish and insensitive she is and how I've tolerated it and metabolized it my entire life.

Me too! I'm finally overcoming a lot of guilt I still felt even with NC, due to that recent FOG setback.  But I have so far to go. I think it's hard, because I DO remember her being kind to me, and then turning so horribly against me. I share a lot of similarities to you in that for a long time, when things would get hard for me, I would turn to her for comfort/shelter and I look back and have no idea WHY I would have done such a thing. I got snookered. I didn't understand what I was dealing with. I think back to times where she has taken me in after some sort of trauma in my life, and how kind she was and wonder if I am wrong for thinking these things about her. How could she take me in and be nice to me and then run scams on me? I must be wrong to think she is scamming me.

The answer:

Rest assured, the N is always there, ready to pounce on the weak and fragile with a smile on her face. " Velcome dahling" says the vampire.

It was all so she could KEEP running the scam, keep me confused. Keep me turning her way for solace, so it could be ammo against me in the future. It's really stunning. And as a daughter, I hate thinking that about my own mother, and resent that I must know this about her because I don't want that. But that's just the truth. Hard to face.

She'll instead hire an incompetent friend/victim and pay him and then whine about how it wasn't done properly and needs to be redone AND expect me to rescue her for free.

This is also very similar to something puzzling my mother does. I'm not a contractor, so I couldn't help that way, but she does a lot of really bizarre remodeling to her house, hires a lot of unlicensed people who do shoddy work "under the radar" all while she tells me she is being foreclosed on, which makes no logical sense. She keeps expecting me to rescue her financially. She would drain every last drop of money I have so that she can keep living in this bizarre lifestyle. I'm not doing that anymore. I actually moved in with her to help about a decade ago, which was a big mistake. Nothing was ever enough. I paid $1100/month to live in a bedroom and she raged at me one day because I "never" bought a bag of groceries. 

I'm glad that you gained so much confidence from the firearms class. I'm glad you are not afraid of the psycho neighbor anymore and no longer feel the need to have the gun. You are stronger than him.

I have held back some info about my own story because when I started here, I was still real FOGgy, and felt bad for writing it down, like I was "lying". Maybe I 'll do a re-introduction on here now.

[Leaving]

I must admit that my thoughts were very scattered when I wrote my post.  There's always so much to say, so much wisdom to glean from every experience with a PD person that my thoughts get jumbled up like numbers in a lotto machine.

This is me, too! I think one of the reasons I stopped T was that I actually had to untangle my own thoughts in order for it to be a successful process. It's quite a task to sort through a tangled, enmeshed life after 40 some odd years.

I know what my mother is but as a human and her daughter, I still find it difficult to wrap my mind around how selfish and insensitive she is and how I've tolerated it and metabolized it my entire life.

Me too! I'm finally overcoming a lot of guilt I still felt even with NC, due to that recent FOG setback.  But I have so far to go. I think it's hard, because I DO remember her being kind to me, and then turning so horribly against me. I share a lot of similarities to you in that for a long time, when things would get hard for me, I would turn to her for comfort/shelter and I look back and have no idea WHY I would have done such a thing. I got snookered. I didn't understand what I was dealing with. I think back to times where she has taken me in after some sort of trauma in my life, and how kind she was and wonder if I am wrong for thinking these things about her. How could she take me in and be nice to me and then run scams on me? I must be wrong to think she is scamming me.

The answer:

Rest assured, the N is always there, ready to pounce on the weak and fragile with a smile on her face. " Velcome dahling" says the vampire.

It was all so she could KEEP running the scam, keep me confused. Keep me turning her way for solace, so it could be ammo against me in the future. It's really stunning. And as a daughter, I hate thinking that about my own mother, and resent that I must know this about her because I don't want that. But that's just the truth. Hard to face.

She'll instead hire an incompetent friend/victim and pay him and then whine about how it wasn't done properly and needs to be redone AND expect me to rescue her for free.

This is also very similar to something puzzling my mother does. I'm not a contractor, so I couldn't help that way, but she does a lot of really bizarre remodeling to her house, hires a lot of unlicensed people who do shoddy work "under the radar" all while she tells me she is being foreclosed on, which makes no logical sense. She keeps expecting me to rescue her financially. She would drain every last drop of money I have so that she can keep living in this bizarre lifestyle. I'm not doing that anymore. I actually moved in with her to help about a decade ago, which was a big mistake. Nothing was ever enough. I paid $1100/month to live in a bedroom and she raged at me one day because I "never" bought a bag of groceries. 

I'm glad that you gained so much confidence from the firearms class. I'm glad you are not afraid of the psycho neighbor anymore and no longer feel the need to have the gun. You are stronger than him.

I have held back some info about my own story because when I started here, I was still real FOGgy, and felt bad for writing it down, like I was "lying". Maybe I 'll do a re-introduction on here now.

You're not a liar and you're perception of your mother is not 'off'.   But I know exactly what you mean and why you feel that way at times.  I very briefly felt that way yesterday!  Of course our mothers are going to be nice to us at times.  They are people and well, even Ted Bundy was a nice caring man to his community and his girlfriend.  Of course as children we learn to expect very little love from them and so when they do something nice or are affectionate, it's so magnified to us and we grow up with a very stunted view of what love looks like and feels like. Understanding the difference between unconditional love and the conditional love is what opened my eyes to the truth about my mother's attention.  I used to confuse any attention I got with love.  If a professor showed a special interest in me, it was because he loved me ( surely it wasn't because I was intelligent or talented).  If my husband made me a cup of coffee, it was because he loved me and that is how low I set the bar for myself.  I don't think like that anymore thank goodness- at least I make a big effort not to!

  I contacted a psychologist and author a few weeks ago about arranging for some 'mentoring' and during our conversation   she said to me, "You're very intuitive.  Trust that.  Don't share your truth with just anyone. Most people don't understand and are in some state of delusion. There are a few individuals whom you will meet and with whom you will speak the same language."  Her words really touched me because I know she's right.  We are in a difficult situation that can be terribly lonely which makes us vulnerable when we don't have support from healthy people that will champion our life.  Talking to the wrong people, especially when we are not strong enough to identify the vampires, can cause more damage.

Holy Cow!  $ 1100.00 is the magic N.umber!  hehehe My mother is asking the same price for her rent for her vacant house!  Maybe we should play that number on the Lotto!   I cannot believe that she charged you that much for a room!  What am I thinking... .YES, I CAN believe it.  Have these beasts no shame?

I understand your resentment in knowing that your mother is what she is.  It takes courage to face the truth and be willing to forge your own path without the love of your mother.  I think what we really resent is that they have forced us into the  position of having to choose them or us because we know that the relationship is a one-way street and that if we don't choose us, we will surrender ourselves to them.   It's horrible!  It's terribly wrong that anyone should have to make such a decision.

I think that you and I will probably experience triggers and days in the fog for the rest of our lives but I also believe that we'll learn to shake it off quickly without it disrupting our happiness.  It's like when I remember taking Organic Chem exams and my stomach feels like it's falling  but then within seconds it's gone and I'm over it.   

What you described about your mother's remodeling and claiming to be broke... .is exactly what my mother does!  Same thing.  She's had one guy working at her house for over 5 years!  My mother and husband don't value anything they have.  They trash everything almost immediately. I have never understood that and never will.  I cherish everything I have and care for it like it was my child. But, they behave like spoiled children that create messes for others to clean up.

I wonder how I will behave when my mother dies.  I don't think I will feel sad. Isn't that terrible?  I mean not that I'm terrible but that a mother could live her entire life and die without the love of her only daughter.   But, as my Aunt told me, ' That's of her own creation and apparently, how she wants it'

[bethanny]

My best wishes for your strength and resilient but strong boundaries, Leaving.

Our dysfunctional parents projected their self hate onto us.

I find the wisdom "Recovery is learning to let go of what you never had" helpful.  Also, re my troubled mother, I remember reading  about how these mothers want you to "keep them company in their isolation" and that they can appreciate some degree of affinity with us but not the intimacy and dynamic of real love.  And we need and deserve that.

[Leaving]

My best wishes for your strength and resilient but strong boundaries, Leaving.

Our dysfunctional parents projected their self hate onto us.

I find the wisdom "Recovery is learning to let go of what you never had" helpful.  Also, re my troubled mother, I remember reading  about how these mothers want you to "keep them company in their isolation" and that they can appreciate some degree of affinity with us but not the intimacy and dynamic of real love.  And we need and deserve that.

Exactly... .letting go of what we never had.  Well said. 

This is what I tell myself when she discards me now.  So what? It's not like I've lost anything except a place to store a few boxes.  I'll retrieve them and be on my way. C'est la vie.  I'm sure she'll leave them on her porch as usual for me.  Oh Bethany, these stupid silly ugly games she continually plays and she never grows up, never learns.  That's what really boggles me.  I mean, what a pathetic empty life for anyone. Do you realize how truly blessed we are that we are not them and that we have the capacity to give and receive true love? 

[ShieldsUp12]

I think what we really resent is that they have forced us into the  position of having to choose them or us because we know that the relationship is a one-way street and that if we don't choose us, we will surrender ourselves to them.   It's horrible!  It's terribly wrong that anyone should have to make such a decision.

Yes. This is really what I've been dealing with for a while. And just when I was really almost there in accepting this as reality, and feeling good about myself, she called and I fooled myself and started the cycle again in my mind.

I find the wisdom "Recovery is learning to let go of what you never had" helpful.

I think if I keep this in mind, it will start to hurt and scare me less and less. I was just saying to my DH last night, what am I so freaked out about? I'm very capable and have taken care of myself for a long time. If she rages, etc., so what? I think part of it is that I have a basic understanding that even though her rages cause me pain, she's raging because she is in pain. I just can't really do anything about it unless, as you both say, I give myself completely over to whatever it is she wants and that is not a viable option for me.

Thank you both for sharing and listening. It's really been helpful to me. I hope you are both feeling stronger today and onward.