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Author Topic: Indecisiveness is it common?  (Read 3237 times)
ydrys017
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2015, 01:14:12 AM »

One of the major benefits of learning about BPD is predicting future outcomes, like tonight - almost.

So, we went out to dinner early as planned so dBPDw could go to game night with friends.  We were seated as bookends to our 3 kids at a Japanese hibachi grill, but she gave me attitude for not sitting next to her! I disregarded it, but I must have had a surprised look on my face given the avoidance and silent treatment from her over the last year or so! So, she thanked S13 for sitting next to her, he looked at her with a  'WTH are you talking about' look. I was not prepared for that!

The chef is doing his tricks and antics, and flips some food to her and she moves quick and instantly starts complaining that she's hurt her back.  We ignore the repeated statements, but it's just so typical! 

D9 has softball practice so the gift giving was a bit rushed, but with minimal complaints about the kiddie gifts - and then gets the microwave brochure.  Doesn't say much, just starts saying 'okaaaay', 'okaaay'... .who will install it (I already arranged that), who will run the electric (it's already there for the existing range hood), when will it happen... .I know from experience that this line of questioning is an attempt to find a reason to delay the gift.  Then silence, which means it will come up again when she is able to think of a way to thwart the whole thing. So, round 2 is coming, probably while her parents are here this weekend.  Sad.

Wish it wasn't this complicated. A vehicle is next, that will divert the anxiety away from the microwave. 
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an0ught
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2015, 06:16:57 AM »

Hi Hmcbart,

I've noticed a lot lately that my unBPDw is very indecisive. Anything she tries to do its like she can't or won't make a decision on it. She is constantly calling me to find out what she should do.

here boundaries and PUVAS are important. What you don't want is making decisions for her - in that enmeshed state of the relationship all responsibilities are muddled. We get blamed for decisions we have been asked to make and the pwBPD can play victim and escape consequences and thus learning. It also erodes over time your ability to make decisions as it is easy to blame the pwBPD for things where you should have simply decided and stuck to your guns.

That in itself wouldn't be a big deal, it's what happens when it doesn't work out that I have trouble dealing with. If it's not up to her standard (nothing ever is), I get blamed for it being bad. I made the decision and told her to do XYZ that way so its now my fault.

It is a bigger deal than you believe. It promotes enmeshment and with a less clearer sense of identity the attribution and regulation of emotions becomes more difficult.

Does anyone else have to deal with this and if so how to you handle it?

First: Boundaries. Don't make decisions that should be made by her. Wean her off that drug. Yes, it won't be liked and there will be accusations of abandonment, unfairness, not understanding, not listening etc... .Extinction burst 101.

Second: PUVAS. Who is responsible for what. Talk more about my and your stuff and our common stuff, responsibility or consequence.

That all was about undoing the move into an unhealthy relationship structure where we enabled responsibility shedding. It still leaves the problems inherent with BPD: Impulsivity, Reactivity, Instability, Anxiety and Fear.  The result depending on the weighting of factors in an individual is either not arriving at a decision or not being able to stick to a decision. Instead of taking their decision making pain we can help them to work through the decision process.

Let's take a step back. How are decisions made by us? We are contemplating facts and then we arrive at a decision. Then we stick with a decision and only if there is a clear signal that the decision was wrong we may reconsider. First we deploy cognitive thinking. The actual decision making then is done in the end through a b&w process where our emotional brain is involved. Then we store that decision and only strong emotional signals validated against our commitment criteria are allowed to restart the process.  

Third. Depending on where the pwBPD is in the process we can support in different ways.

- validation while evaluating facts. Keeping the emotions in check.

- at times in small doses creating awareness of the cost of indecision and the fact that indecision is also a decision

- creating awareness of benefits of decision - clarity of thinking further, moving forward etc.

- when decision is arrived creating awareness of the decision. Validation of anxiety having made the wrong decision. Clarifying the level of commitment.

- when strong signals to the contrary arrive helping with validation of anxiety etc. to stay more rationale. Reminding then of commitment and of value to stick to that. Consideration of price of commitment - in some sense commitments are boundaries and cost something. Creating awareness that re-opening old discussion is another decision that should not be taken lightly. If needed helping to work through the re-opening otherwise helping through the closing down of temporary crisis through validation - it is normal to have doubts and things often go slightly different than planned.

We really can't tell our partners how they should make decisions - they are their decisions and those decisions shape them. Telling them, challenging them would be something a T could do. If your partner is in therapy and is aware of their own struggle to make decisions then maybe that is something to suggest. Our role can only be supportive. There is however still another thing that can have a big impact:

Forth. We are role models. The clearer and open (where appropriate) we go about our own decision making the more input we provide to their learning.

In total this is a bigger change. It takes a while to get all pieces into place but it is doable.
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ydrys017
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2015, 08:14:14 AM »

Excellent response anOught.  What is PUVAS?
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an0ught
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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2015, 01:09:27 PM »

Excellent response anOught.  What is PUVAS?

We don't have much on PUVAS. Maybe we should do a workshop on it  . It is a bit of a complementary advanced skill. The key basic skills while relationship is still in major crisis mode are Validation, Boundaries and SET. More skills won't help much - better skill execution matters a lot. Having said this:

   1) It is mentioned here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

   2) I think my best post on it is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=277372.msg12625982#msg12625982

   3) The description in Stop Walking on Eggshells is about a short paragraph each if memory serves right.
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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2015, 03:11:09 PM »

 

I've been pushing the "understand fully" thing in my r/s for a while.

Slow down the conversation... .let me ask some questions... .etc etc.

I'm working hard on being a better validater.  Right now my questions seem to "grate" or inflame her... .I ignore it and press on to get the info... .(I definitely don't fight her over it... .or "call her out"... .I need to learn how to validate it better.

That being said... .I don't consciously think about PUVAS... .but it's a neat way to organize... .

FF
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DyingLove
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« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2015, 03:20:33 PM »

I noticed also that she couldn't make a decision (not all the time) and like it was said, If I made that decision, there was hell to pay.  I was always better off just going with the situation and sitting back and just be supportive.  It's almost like she appreciated me being supportive with "what happens happens". I'm a very logical person and not afraid to make decisions or delegate... .this did not work well for her.

Then again, it seems everything we do is not to their liking. So is it a wonder why so many of us are messed up mentally from trying to please someone in our relationship?

Would you like the ketchup? No, give me the mustard! Is the spaghetti tender enough for you? No, keep it cooking.  Wanna watch a movie? No I'm tired of going to bed early. The list goes on.  Then there are the faces of discontent!  She might not say anything but her expression and body language say other!
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waverider
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« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2015, 05:59:23 PM »

Then again, it seems everything we do is not to their liking.

That's life

So is it a wonder why so many of us are messed up mentally from trying to please someone in our relationship?

Don't keep trying  to appease the unappeasable and you wont be as messed up.

We often loose ourselves trying to grab hold of smoke rings
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DyingLove
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2015, 12:03:52 PM »

Then again, it seems everything we do is not to their liking.

That's life

So is it a wonder why so many of us are messed up mentally from trying to please someone in our relationship?

Don't keep trying  to appease the unappeasable and you wont be as messed up.

We often loose ourselves trying to grab hold of smoke rings

All quite true waverider.  I've stopped those things,,but not to say I don't relapse on occassion but more often than not, I can implement the new methods that I try to abide by.  What's harder, this stuff or the new math?  LOL  I guess at times it's hard to understand either!
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waverider
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« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2015, 05:06:04 PM »

I guess at times it's hard to understand either!

Can't always understand the seemingly illogical, we dont have the wiring for it. Best we can do sometimes is recognize and accept. Then do our best.
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