Sex and side effects. Ugh

[Jessica84]

Is there an antidepressant on the market that doesn't have the depression-causing side effect of ED for men?

Found out my uBPDbf stopped taking his antidepressants last week so he could... .(sorry to be graphic) ... .get aroused and pleasure himself. Now his depression is back, along with the suicide ideation.

He's stuck with 2 bad options and both make him severely depressed: take the meds and suffer ED, or not take them and suffer suicidal thoughts. He says he wakes up every morning thinking of how to kill himself. So he started taking them again. When he is on the meds, he says he doesn't think about suicide but not being able to orgasm makes him feel worthless as a man. He uses this to tell me to find a younger man. Blah blah blah. I don't even know what to say to comfort him anymore. Any tips?

Would men rather die than go without sex? I so don't get that. The suicide talk is way worse than no sex. He promised to call his doctor so I'm relieved, but it seems like every drug he tries (4th one) has the same side-effect.

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[Verbena]

I don't have any advice for this situation, but I am sorry you are dealing with it.  This statement caught my attention:

Would men rather die than go without sex? I so don't get that

This might be true for some men, maybe most men, but not all men. 

My husband would rather die than talk to me about his anger and negativity which have directly resulted in a dysfunctional and totally sexless marriage.  I have told why I do not want a physical relationship with him and why.  It feels fake and manipulative on his part because he can turn off the hateful, angry side long enough to have sex.  So we continue not to have sex, he continues to refuse to discuss anything with me, and he continues to be angrier and angrier.

I guess in a way it's similar to your situation.  Just a vicious cycle. 

[Jessica84]

Sorry Verbena. I can understand though. There have been times after a vicious episode that I didn't want him anywhere near me. I think there has to be some degree of emotional intimacy to enjoy the physical.

We have a decent sex life, but let's just say only one of us gets... .satisfied... .and then it's used against me. He makes me feel selfish and blames me. Any foul mood he gets in after is my fault. "Oh sure, YOU'RE happy... ." Even though he knows it's the medication he still gets frustrated and angry. Tells me how would you like it if you couldn't... .? I just shrug my shoulders. I really don't think about it. I certainly don't place my entire self-worth on the ability to achieve an orgasm! Plus it's not my fault 'it' doesn't work for him. I sympathize but really... .what am I supposed to say?

I've thought of faking NOT having one... .but he'd probably take that as I've lost interest. Catch 22.

[Fian]

I have encountered something similar as well.  If she does not get an orgasm, she can get angry at me.  Now, trying to find ways where she is satisfied too is good, but getting angry?  Sex is such a touchy subject, that I think it is common sense that you would want to be careful talking about it with your spouse.  Getting angry just makes the entire situation nuclear.  Then you toss in the lack of empathy, and her not getting an orgasm is now a deliberate attack by me. 

Fortunately, I think we have gotten past the anger stage in regards to sex, but it was quite traumatic at the time.

[EightySix]

How long is he on these meds before he tries a new one.

My husband had a similar problem several years ago when he tried citalopram(Cipralex). He could get it up but he couldn't get off. At all. It took him several months before he was able to get off again.

[Jessica84]

He's on them for months or years. All have this side effect. When he gets off the meds, he has no problems sexually, but the depression/suicide ideation returns. He started a new Rx about 4 months ago. He says it's even worse than the Wellbutrin.

And thank you for "up but not off". I was trying to figure out how to put that! So yes, he can perform, but not finish. Is that really so awful for a man? Then again, he said satisfying me makes him feel "proud". He beats his chest like Tarzan. So how can he be proud and also blame me at the same time? I'm very confused... .

[Hmcbart]

It sometimes feels like we would rather die

What does he take that makes him not want to have sex. I'm not depressed or suicidal but because my wife does not want to have sex (once a year in average), I am willing to fake depression if I can take something to keep me from being arroused. I've tried all the herbal stuff out there and none of it works. I even went to therapy thinking I was a sex addict because I wanted it twice a month and she convinced me that it's not normal to be in the mood that often. I know I know, I'm the idiot on that one but it has been the cause of most of my frustrations and I'm very willing to take something to make it go away at this point.

[formflier]

Is that really so awful for a man? Then again, he said satisfying me makes him feel "proud". 

My answer is no it's not that bad... .every once in a while.

I think what is getting to him and probably not helping is that he is thinking about it... .is that he is thinking he is not going to perform... .which... .when you start  worrying... .doesn't help.

FF

[Jessica84]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that, Hmcbart. That is so sad. Funny the way you put it, but sad. Unfortunately, the meds don't take away the desire, just the ability to function properly. Like the little engine that really, really wants to... .but can't. I'm so sorry. Don't know of any magic pill to make you not want to sleep with your wife.

Yes FF - I've often thought he was over-thinking it. Giving himself performance anxiety. Have told him to "get out of his head", like that's supposed to make sense to him. But doesn't much matter if the result is the same.

[Hmcbart]

I agree with FF on the anxiety part, I'm sure that plays a big part in it. But from a mans stand point, knowing that we can make our partners happy is very important also. It's good to be Tarzan!

And Jessica, I stopped crying a while ago, it's not worth it anymore. I only have my sense of humor left to get me through it. Not sure if it's any consolation to you or him but I'd gladly trade abilities with him. Give mine to someone who can use it.

I seem to be blessed with teenage hormones and my other curse... .a long long life span (get you minds out of the gutter).   

[married21years]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that, Hmcbart. That is so sad. Funny the way you put it, but sad. Unfortunately, the meds don't take away the desire, just the ability to function properly. Like the little engine that really, really wants to... .but can't. I'm so sorry. Don't know of any magic pill to make you not want to sleep with your wife.

Yes FF - I've often thought he was over-thinking it. Giving himself performance anxiety. Have told him to "get out of his head", like that's supposed to make sense to him. But doesn't much matter if the result is the same.

hi sorry to be so graffic but a vibrating cock ring, porn and a blow job

once hard the cock ring will keep it that way

[pressonetohold]

Hi Jessica,

Hm, maybe my experiences with these kind of medicine help? With Citalopram and the likes it gets increasingly difficult to reach an orgasm, the more you take, the harder it gets (ironic pun intended).

I by no means want to take the role of a psychiatrist, mind you, but I can say from experience that lowering the dose just a bit, bit by bit, (in consultation with the doc) might at least make it possible to reach the finish line, while maintaining positive effect on mood.

In this case, the medication was subscribed for dealing with anxiety-depression issues, and while taking less had the negative effect of having a bit of the anxiety back, and the positive of feeling less-numbed-out, which was the reason for asking for lowering the dosage in the first place, it also had the effect of (limited) returning sexual function after a few weeks.

In any case, stopping with meds just like that seems to be no option at all, but I would say it is a good thing to communicate any problems and side effects, and try to balance out to reach the 'most ideal' intake.

To answer your last question; Would I rather die that have no sex? *Grin, well no, but with sex, there is way more fun in life. At the minimum, it is a healthy celebration of manhood (or womanhood for that matter) and life force, so to speak, at the other end of the spectrum it can be a most sacred and ecstatic celebration of love and partnership. Not something I would voluntarily miss out on. For some time maybe, but not as an accepted status quo.

I would interpret his action as an albeit ill-advised, but honest try to mend this dysfunction, and the frustration it might bring. It's quite hard to appreciate the good influence of the medication, when it makes you feel 'normal' at best, and also takes away a very pleasurable part of your life.

As for what you can do in providing comfort? Well I would say, just that, bare with him, and try to make the difference between when the depression is talking, and when the man. For your own sake mostly, I understand very well you might feel unable to give comfort, but do not that get to you, depression is playing a very dirty trick on your man, and it is by no means a shortcoming in you, that makes him feel down, it is the sickness.

[Stalwart]

The darn lives we lead eh Jessica?

I can so associate with all of this. I think pressonetohold did a thorough job of summing up a lot of the questions.

I know my wife struggles with the same issues of desensitization and so dislikes it. Of all the antidepressants she’s been on she’s finally found one that at least she can find some degree of satisfaction with. Not complaining, but my goodness she’s so specific in her needs and whoa it can become an arduous task rather than a pleasure from time to time. The end generally justifies the means though and in that respect it’s a pleasure.

I can feel for her frustrations. From time to time she gets so frustrated that she sneaks off her meds and believe me it’s not worth it for the rest of the world when that does happen. I’m going through one of those cycles right now. It becomes evident in a couple of days that she has and then it becomes the ‘game’ of somehow trying to influence her back on to them before she dissociates or does damage and alienates herself from the rest of the world and she’s gone through so many good friends when she gets like that. It’s just dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. I’ve tried all the topical solutions that are supposed to enhance her feelings but they aren’t affective in her case. Although I don’t know if you’re familiar with them but there are topical products that are made for men and women and went put in combination are supposed to enhance the experience. In our case they aren’t effective for her though and I have no need of them. Heads up - The grape flavor sucks though. 

It really is desperate for some men to experience your husband’s difficulties. Like pressone said, no it’s not about life-threatening, but to most men sex and orgasm is one of life’s driving pleasures. Different for everyone I suppose but testosterone is a powerful stimulant and failure to finish is frustrating both on a mental and physical level. Look at some of the absolute violent and deranged things some men will turn to. It is a powerful influence on men. Not trying to be sexist or stereotypical but it seems women have a better way of dealing with the frustration or constant need of always  having an orgasm during sex than men. So having said that; Who’s really the princess eh?

I really see this more or less being one for the doctor to have his or her input on. They may have a better knowledge of drugs that may help with this. Back in darker days I was prescribed an antideppresent: Cipralex which I saw someone else had trouble with. I found it had no effect on me sexually although I was warned by my doctor and pharmacist that it might. Also just FYI I would have quit it if it did. It’s also the only one my wife has found that will not totally numb her out and she’s probably tried them all over her lifetime. I do know for a lot of men though that pre-mentallization or imaged-anticipation can help flows along quicker though when the time for actions comes along. A partner’s level of engagement, enthusiasm and erotic response does wonders to get things boiling as well.

Hope you find solutions Jessica.

[Jessica84]

Thanks everyone. His testosterone levels are finally back to the normal range. He gave me a rundown of all the meds he's on now, and all the ones he's tried before... .but my eyes started to cross as he rattled off the list of when he took each (morning or night), their purpose, dosages, side-effects, and how it affected him generally. I should've been paying more attention but it was an hour of being talked AT, rather than a conversation!

I know Lexapro was bad. He was on that for anxiety for 10 years. He went off it last year, became a grouchy terror, tried something else (it reacted bad with some other med - can't remember which?), now on NO anti-anxiety so he's super-edgy... .Last week he said it was the Wellbutrin that caused the ED problem. Today he said W didn't affect him like that? I suggested that he keep a journal - he likes that idea - said he'll start logging one on his phone. Hope he shares that with the doctor... .I can't keep up!

[Jessica84]

A partner’s level of engagement, enthusiasm and erotic response does wonders to get things boiling as well.

Oh I deserve a medal. I have tried just about everything to help him along... .role-playing, costumes, gels, edible this or that, porn, different positions, different rooms, handjobs, blowjobs, massages... .(sorry to be so graphic). There are times it's been such a major ordeal it wears me out and frustrates him worse. It's almost to the point where I don't want to get started unless I've got loads of free time... .it can takes HOURS. We've missed dinner plans because of it!

Then, if it doesn't happen, he's humiliated, and after all the efforts, I'm exhausted and frustrated myself. I'm working against a stream of poisons... .so-called mood stabilizers. Sometimes he'll stop me after a short while and say "It's not going to happen... .come cuddle with me", but within a few minutes he's trying again! I know it will most likely still not happen for him... .but I keep hoping so he can give it a rest. He's always nicer after he's released the pressure 

And I thought validating was tough... .sheesh. "I can see you're frustrated" is so much easier than trying to un-frustrate him.

[ColdEthyl]

Sorry you are going through this, Jessica84  I think you are pretty familiar with my story, and it seems like he would rather die than "fail" at having sex.

I'm making him go to the doctor. I finally got him to agree to go if I make the appointment and go with him. For you, I would suggest the same. Speak to the doctors and see if there's something that can be done.

[Jessica84]

He has never let me go with him. I think he isn't tell the whole story to the doc. Maybe too embarrassed. When I've asked in the past, did you ask him this? that? the other? He said no, he "forgot".    Me? I get every single detail. Hoping the journal will help.

[Stalwart]

"And I thought validating was tough... .sheesh. "I can see you're frustrated" is so much easier than trying to un-frustrate him."

That is just so hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

[nomoremommyfood]

Last week he said it was the Wellbutrin that caused the ED problem. Today he said W didn't affect him like that?

Wow, for once, I might actually me able to help someone instead of complaining!

I'm not a doctor, but am (unfortunately) all-too-knowledgeable about these types of drugs. Wellbutrin (Buproprion) is, to my knowledge, the only anti-depressant without a risk of sexual side effects. In fact, it's sometimes prescribed to counteract the sexual side effects of other drugs and is generally well-tolerated by most people. Obviously, every drug is going to be different for every person, but that particular drug isn't likely (not impossible, but not likely) to be the culprit.

Like other posters, I've had to discontinue medication because of sexual side effects; I think the drug in question was Paxil, but it may have been Celexa (Citalopram). In my opinion (and, for once, my doctor agreed), anorgrasmia is a deal-breaker. Sadly, sexual side effects seem par for the course for anti-depressants, though there's a difference between, uh, taking forever or having decreased sexual interest and not being able to finish at all.

If he's on a whole battery of pills, it's tough to detect which is causing the problem. There are no drugs approved to treat BPD and this can sometimes lead to whole cocktails being prescribed to treat individual symptoms and making things worse. However, from what I understand, mood-stabilizers can be effective for BPD and some are very well-tolerated. Which specific mood stabilizer is he taking?

Hope this is helpful!

[Jessica84]

Yes, you are right. Wellbutrin was prescribed to replace another antidepressant and specifically to help overcome the sexual side effects of one of his anti-anxiety meds. He didn't realize this in a dysregulated state last week so impulsively went off all his meds so he could release some steam, so to speak. He told me he literally spent all day in bed Memorial Day doing that. Wow. All I did was BBQ with family.

Poor guy. He's on a rollercoaster with all these drugs. I don't know the names of all of them. Uppers, downers, weeeeeee! I hate the medical profession. He's undiagnosed BPD. Has all 9 traits, but idiot doctors are only treating the symptoms. Formally, he is diagnosed with OCD, Anxiety and Depression.

[nomoremommyfood]

Yes, you are right. Wellbutrin was prescribed to replace another antidepressant and specifically to help overcome the sexual side effects of one of his anti-anxiety meds. He didn't realize this in a dysregulated state last week so impulsively went off all his meds so he could release some steam, so to speak. He told me he literally spent all day in bed Memorial Day doing that. Wow. All I did was BBQ with family.

Poor guy. He's on a rollercoaster with all these drugs. I don't know the names of all of them. Uppers, downers, weeeeeee! I hate the medical profession. He's undiagnosed BPD. Has all 9 traits, but idiot doctors are only treating the symptoms. Formally, he is diagnosed with OCD, Anxiety and Depression.

That sounds awful. Recent research indicates men are as likely to have BPD as women, but there's still a stigma that it's a "women's disease." In my opinion, it seems like too many doctors under-diagnose men with having things like depression, anxiety, and anger-management issues while over-diagnosing women with BPD. I myself had bipolar disorder misdiagnosed as BPD and spent years cycling through medications that either did nothing or exacerbated symptoms. A misdiagnosis can be really dangerous! I also think there's an inherent propensity for doctors to view a patient's in-office presentation as all-consuming and women are more likely to openly discuss issues (though who goes to a psychiatrist to talk about the discount they got on coffee at the supermarket?) while men underplay them... .particularly if the patient is high-functioning.

I believe you mentioned you were married - is it possible to go into the office with him? Unfortunately, with BPD, medication can only treat the symptoms but perhaps suggesting they may be co-morbid to a different disorder could help?

And be careful about stopping meds! Doctors often downplay the dependence psych drugs can cause and, since they're not "addictive" drugs, people are often totally unprepared for the physical withdrawal.

[Jessica84]

We are not married. We don't even live together so I don't have much of a say, and don't see what he takes on a daily basis. We talk all the time and get together on the weekends and when we can. He tells me everything that happened that day, what he's feeling, thinking. His thoughts get so jumbled.

He asked his doctor before if he was bipolar, but doc said no. He asked him point blank "then what the hell is wrong with me?" I felt so bad. Wanted to tell him it's a personality disorder, but didn't dare. Doctor told him to give the meds "time to work". Really? At the time he was about ready to check himself into a 30-day treatment facility because he felt "crazy". He was the most dysregulated I've ever seen him - ultra-impulsive, suicidal, erratic mood swings, broke up with me, called me crying days later, confused, scared, needy. Broke my heart. No idea if it was a borderline episode or the meds sending him spiraling, but it was scary for awhile there.

[Stalwart]

I so hope he finds his way Jessica. He's got one thing going for him and that's YOU.

[Jessica84]

Thanks Stalwart. Everyone thinks I'm a saint... .or a glutton for punishment.   Truth is he hurts himself far more than he hurts me. Took me a long time to realize that. Mainly because I stopped taking his goofy comments and mean behaviors so personal.

What's sad is how everyone else has given up on him. And worse, talk to him as if he has no feelings. WOW, how do they not see it? That's ALL he has is feelings! Constantly. They may change every 5 minutes, but he's feeling something... .every second of everyday.

And he gets zero validation from anyone. We saw his family this weekend. Two of them asked me (in private thankfully) "how do you put up with him?"... .That would've crushed him. Come to think of it, he went off the meds the week they all came down to visit... .hmmmmm

[Stalwart]

Hey I hear you Jessica.

I live in the same world and the same frustrations at others. Other’s opinions of me sometimes actually cause turmoil in my wife.

I correspond with quite a few people with BPD online from other sites and have made some close and lasting connections. I don’t know one person who really doesn’t feel “No one has ever understood me.” It must be so desperate to feel as though they’ve never been understood, listened to or in most cases validated at all. It’s a wonder they aren’t all “crazy eh?” Sorry, that was probably in bad taste and just meant in jest. Anyway crazy isn’t a word I use in conjunction with BPD. It’s only crazy when it isn’t understandable or or we aren’t able to rationalize something into definition.

It’s amazing how much so many of us have grown in our understandings of what we see and experience when those closest to them (their families) have not taken on that same learning we have. That’s frustrating. I know for my part it’s always been my intent to try and keep my wife in with her family. For their part though, they have dealt with the problems since she was a young teen and it becomes a repetition of dysfunction they’re challenged with wanting to deal with. Far too many problems, far too many panicked phone calls thirty times a night in times of trouble and far too many times they had to ‘come to the rescue’. To some extent and understanding they “see it” but just don’t want to have to anymore and are more than grateful that it’s MY problem now and not there’s.

My wife’s entire maternal line has challenges and she didn’t fall too far from the tree so that complicates both awareness’s and accountabilities with her family that she needs desperately to be validated about heredity, if for no other reason, to shift accountability and find explanations from her upbringing to offset guilt’s. Pointless to me, but enveloping and ongoing for her.

It’s been three years since her diagnosis and the diagnosis itself caused as many problems as it did questions for her family and for her. It’s always a work in progress to try and keep it intact but for the most part it’s an uphill climb the last year or so. Her family did go in to some extent and start to learn a bit of an overview about BPD but it didn’t go too far in understanding or depth. I think it also hit a bit too close to home for her mother as well, she doesn’t remember reading about it being an inherited disorder, (which you just can’t miss in any intro to it) and if it is; then it must be from her father because there’s nothing wrong with her. (My wife didn’t meet her father until she was 22.) So the family lives in dysfunction.

There are some actions that just so come to me as not being understandable. A big family event (her side) coming up next month that we need to be at and my wife suddenly decides to go off her meds as well. It’s all part of the ‘passive/aggressive’ (so she puts it.) I can tell within days as I watch her fall apart and start to escalate if she’s gone off her drugs so I asked why she had and “It’s about time in my life I stood up for myself.” There’s a storm coming at her niece’s wedding.

“What's sad is how everyone else has given up on him. And worse, talk to him as if he has no feelings.”

It is sad Jessica and it makes the challenges like you and I and others here face trying to keep the pieces together that much more difficult but that’s why I said there is one thing he has going for him and that’s YOU. Because you are exceptional Jessica and so are so many other’s here that take on the challenges of trial of daily life and strive to make a better one out of it for others and hopefully for yourself as well.

[Jessica84]

Thanks for sharing your story. I find everyone's insight here so helpful. One of the people who asked me "how do you put up with him?" was... .his mother. She seems like such a nice, sweet lady and I'm sure he's always been difficult, but still... .I cannot imagine how a mother could ask such a thing about her own son. By the way, I answered her with "Your son is a great man with many wonderful qualities." 

His family seems very "normal". I asked his brother once if he's been angry his whole life? Brother said yep, always pissed off about something. My BPDbf is definitely "different" from the rest of his family, but he was sexually abused by 2 male teenagers as a child. It happened only once but had to be traumatic to a small boy. My guess is that was when the BPD seed was planted.

[formflier]

  My BPDbf is definitely "different" from the rest of his family, but he was sexually abused by 2 male teenagers as a child. It happened only once but had to be traumatic to a small boy. My guess is that was when the BPD seed was planted.

What is his therapy/treatment status for this trauma in his life?

Does his family know?

FF

[ColdEthyl]

Thanks for sharing your story. I find everyone's insight here so helpful. One of the people who asked me "how do you put up with him?" was... .his mother. She seems like such a nice, sweet lady and I'm sure he's always been difficult, but still... .I cannot imagine how a mother could ask such a thing about her own son. By the way, I answered her with "Your son is a great man with many wonderful qualities." 

His family seems very "normal". I asked his brother once if he's been angry his whole life? Brother said yep, always pissed off about something. My BPDbf is definitely "different" from the rest of his family, but he was sexually abused by 2 male teenagers as a child. It happened only once but had to be traumatic to a small boy. My guess is that was when the BPD seed was planted.

I'm sorry to hear that, Jessica. My H was drugged and raped by a family friend for years from about 11-13 until he ran away. And yet... .I sit here and wonder why sex is so messed up for him. *shakes head* Sometimes I forget just how much he goes through without ever saying a word about it.

[Jessica84]

That's awful, ColdEthyl. I forget too. Not the kind of movie I want playing in my head... .if I think about it too much.

Yes FF, his family knows. His mother remained friends with the boys' parents until they moved away. To him it was a major betrayal on her part. His brothers don't talk about it. He's had therapy, but he thinks he's "over" it now... .or maybe doesn't want to keep re-living it. This happened almost 50 years ago. I don't bring it up. Any time he has, he starts plotting an elaborate revenge. Then he'll stop and change the subject right before he's about to cry. I just hold him tight, use SET, then go with the distraction and let him move on.

[ColdEthyl]

That's awful, ColdEthyl. I forget too. Not the kind of movie I want playing in my head... .if I think about it too much.

Yes FF, his family knows. His mother remained friends with the boys' parents until they moved away. To him it was a major betrayal on her part. His brothers don't talk about it. He's had therapy, but he thinks he's "over" it now... .or maybe doesn't want to keep re-living it. This happened almost 50 years ago. I don't bring it up. Any time he has, he starts plotting an elaborate revenge. Then he'll stop and change the subject right before he's about to cry. I just hold him tight, use SET, then go with the distraction and let him move on.

I'm so sorry    I know about the revenge part. My H will talk that way too. Then he will turn around and say it doesn't affect him. Oh hun... .it has. It  really... .really has