Self-introduction, wearing out - and: How to build and maintain limits?

[outorigame]

Hi,

this is my first post here on the forum, after thinking for a long time I shouldsearch for a community I never got to it through the ups and downs of life.

A little background: I'm in a now 3 year relationship, married for 1/2. We just moved to Asia both working inb the same place, not the same room but with frequent contact and lunch together. I know every history is complicated, but ours put us into a conflict from the very start: We both wanted to be single for a while, but she wanted to get exclusive earlier than me, and I agreed to not sleep with other women before telling her I want to, and then we could be friends but not lovers anymore. I broke that when my ex came to town and I met her and ended up taking her home, unplanned, but taken over in the moment, it had been a difficult breakup for me, me initiating it on rational grounds in order to be there for myself and lead my own life. I have at least dependent tendencies and found it difficult to not lead my life the way I saw for myself. (who already found the irony can keep it). As we weren't in a 'real' relationship (in my perspective) yet, always talking about enjoying the now and not making plans for the future, I told her, also that I thought about it after what happened and that I really wanted to be with her and didn't want this to end yet but see where we go and give us a chance, as we are great together.

She got mad and we talked and I explained and I visited her a couple of days later. She (as she later told me, and would sometimes calmly sometimes furiously affirm that it was a mistake from the start to stay together) was going to tell me she's done with me, but after hearing me out said ok, we'll be together for real, with a future perspective and all. And great we were, think dependent and BPD on a high fly, lots of sex, love, philosophying, making poetry together, writing cards, being symbiotic. The infidelity, became really traumatic to her only after it became clear my ex is close friend to my best friends circle and when I would go home I would see her. Many fights later about if I could meet my ex again to talk things over (she didn't even know I had a new girlfriend, and with increasing impossibility to have any contact with her, I left her deeply scarred), if I could attend my best friends round birthday party the gran finale consisted of me wanting to invite her to our wedding. Needless to say I handled everything much less than perfect, and that time I just brought it up a bit and let it drop afterwards. As always concerning this, my to her threatening desires deeply conflictuated her, and I didn't navigate well between her becoming (para)suicidal and showing full comprehension for me, finally telling me to invite her. At my friends party I tried to explain this to my ex, who had heard from a friend already and said no, but asked me how we would have a normal friend relation if we couldnt meet each other and talk, like friends. I explained that with time, that now is impossible because of what I did but I am with my new partner now and have to take the consequences of what I did and stand by it. This over some drinks I talked longer and louder than intended, my ex teared up, my partner squeezed my hand (according to her forcefully),trying to tell me to stop which I didn't register. Finally my now wife got up and left and we ended up discussing for over an hour outside.

Maybe this level of detail isn't necessary, but it is important in a way: I am deeply intangled in feelings of guilt, indignation of unjustified exaggeration (When talking about it, it sounds like I cheated on my wife for years, lying to her, so she only takes responsibility of the fact of having stayed with me and all her acts of 'ok, invite her', in moments when she says: you're right, it's my own fault, and she drops into either full resignation mode (do whatever and whoever you want) or divorce/parasuicidal mode. Every step step towards "now I demand you can never see her again" is justified by how unrespectfully spiteful people treat her (e.g. my ex started crying in that bar and instead of effectively hiding it she tried lifting her head waving her hands (holding in the tears or 'putting on a show', depending on who you ask). Anyways. We got married, and left the country shortly afterwards so now my ex and my friends are far away. As always past the first few months the topic might come up (through something apparently completely unrelated) and will be strongest emotionally, but a wide range of other triggers can cause fights, such as saving money/buying things, difference of opinions on trivial things, children, or any topic she may insist on taking up.

I find myself in double binds where she will oscillate between the stance that she has the right to abort without even telling me as it is her body to wanting me to assure her we will have children when she thinks about them warmly. Diverging stances will lead to disaster.

Now I tumbled into a spiral where I can't tell most of my friends about my current emotional state (first because my best friend they don't get along at all, him being my ex's very close friend also, but also) because I think they would think I'm crazy if I told them what I am living. I don't want to tell them, but I don't want to lie and play happy either. I am not sure where my loyalties should be. I am distancing myself from my friends this way, but telling them (she knows them) would not be loyal to my partner? And If I told them I think the only advice they would give me given the case is to leave. I can't blame them. that is one of my bigger dillemas, input highly welcome.

So you noticed I myself cause grief, not last to myself, by my dependence and falling symbiotic. Even so I have a strong freedom need and need more moral approval than always being the same opinion or doing things together. (My narcisistic mother somehow gave me on the way to be extremely adaptive, but with good self-esteem. a whole other if connected topic).

Beyond all this, a pattern emerged where I could be sure what would happen by her period. It's not obvious, but days 1, 5,6 mark being desperate, feeling worthless, suicidal. week 2 is happy, caring, full of energy and ideas. Week 3 will have her explode about something surely and week 4 is mixed, tiredness, with irritability. I had considered PMDD, but it's so deep-set in her personality and her childhood invalidation by a narcissistic father and her cognitive structure about how she processes social inputs (see below) and everything make me think it's just a big modulating factor. I don't think it really matters, really, anyways. We went to a hormone-center once; the whole hormone testing-cycle would have been quite expensive so in the end we just got the pill that the doctor said he would likely recommend. That is qlaira, due to the 'natural estrogen', but by now I think that is mostly marketing (it's not the type of estrogen but the estrogen-progesteron-testosterone balance if anything). Anyways, she took it for 2 months, and she still got mad but not as suicidal or desperate about herself, but she got a warm feeling in her thigh sometimes and stopped the pill again, without seeing a gyno. the warm feeling persisted a while and she concluded it was a chair she sat on wrongly. Now she is back on the pill for a month. I think it's just a first drop, but she feels she is already doing everything to improve our relationship, and I need a shrink much more than she does. Today she asked me, after she ranted a bit about how subjective that is, about a question on a questionnaire: 'what is normal, how much is normal'. I responded what I thought of it, and she got irritated. I quickly added: I completely agree with you that this is a bad term to put on a questionnaire to measure quantity), but she got mad anyways and would keep going on about how I would 'say anything to defend them rather than to agree with her'. I couldnt get to see her i was just answering a question and if it was rethorical she could have told me and what is so against her in saying 'i completely agree with you in your critique of the matter'.

I'm rambling, sorry. anyways. I recently reached out to a psychologist (not so many english speaking in the area I'm afraid) but haven't heard back. In the meantime I want to work on myself (I can keep telling her things and she will agree in good times and throw them back at me in bad times; either way it will be largely swept away by her next cycle of emotions).

I encouraged her to do activities and meet people, and she has planned to go to meetups but didn't go in the end (too far, tired, etc). she wants to do something but doesn't go through with it many times. I just read a short review on 'I hate you don't leave me' on a webpage and saw her so much in the five tendencies, it's a joke. I quote: [www.laingsociety.org/cetera/pguillaume.htm][/url]: The borderline exists in a world that is untrustworthy and inconsistent. Friendships, jobs, and skills are always in question.

I must add I am sometimes so worn down that I am not completely sure I want to stay. That is, I do want to stay and make things better with her, but I depend on that things will get significantly better soon. After her last 'packing the suitcase, get a lawyer for the divorce' last weekend, we made a deal to stay through this for a year (violence and unfaithfulness as dealbrakers besides). I hope by then things are going uphill because if not I see myself gone or psychologically broken.

So, to pose some concrete questions:

- How can I set and maintain limits/boundaries

- How can I walk away from discussions/drama (few times she calms down but I feel she just becomes more sensitive afterwards and it adds explosivity or triviality of things we will fight about), and 'not reward it' with attention?

- What else can I do? (I do have physical exercise and some social contact there, but I hardly meet people outside of home. As we are in a new country it seems abandoning her when I stay out more, and she is at home and knows noone)

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[an0ught]

Hi outorigame,

I must add I am sometimes so worn down that I am not completely sure I want to stay. That is, I do want to stay and make things better with her, but I depend on that things will get significantly better soon. After her last 'packing the suitcase, get a lawyer for the divorce' last weekend, we made a deal to stay through this for a year (violence and unfaithfulness as dealbrakers besides). I hope by then things are going uphill because if not I see myself gone or psychologically broken.

You can't make it better but you can stop making it worse. Which btw. will save some energy.

Often when we see people frustrated and depressed we want to cheer them up. We may get a polite smile acknowledging our effort but it really does not work. It does not work since it is invalidating. Invalidation of a pwBPD doesn't go that well - things spiral downwards quickly. Validating would be respecting the pain on the other side and letting the other person know that you get it. Validation of a pwBPD tends to help a little and may enable the pwBPD to take other steps to improve.

When it come to boundaries the question really is what values you are going to protect and what price you are willing to pay for it. The question on "how you can walk away from drama" is simply answered: With your legs, preferably in a direction that is safe, outside shouting distance and out of sight. You may try to limit the fallout by making clear well in advance of a conflict that this may happen. You may try to limit the abandonment by structuring the stepping out in form of a time-out: I'll be back in 2h. But in the end the question remains: What price are you willing to pay? First boundaries typically come with extinction burst so it takes a bit of nerves to get through them. Next ones are easier.

- What else can I do? (I do have physical exercise and some social contact there, but I hardly meet people outside of home. As we are in a new country it seems abandoning her when I stay out more, and she is at home and knows noone)

- if she is feeling depressed - maybe that can get her to a doctor?

- you staying at home won't solve the problem. Spending time apart is helping to maintain boundaries and respect. The important thing you need to understand: Abandonment is bad but fear of abandonment is worse. You can't control her fear of abandonment by always staying home - this just increases her dependency on you which in turn increases her fear. What you need is to validate the fear but also have a boundary that protects your social interests. These outside interests act as important anchors for you and indirectly the relationship.

- Why are you always lunching together. Lunch is not such a threatening situation and maybe you can encourage her to have one2one lunches once in a while w/o you. Validate that she feels alone and that it is hard to get to know people. Lunches or whatever may provide her with opportunities to reach out. She has to do it. You can only validate that she struggles.

,

a0