Do I ask kids for copy of the email? If one exists

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm leaning towards ignoring it... .as I don't totally get what she is alleging... .or thinking.

Apparently she finds a computer with my email up on it... .and forwards several emails between me and a lady I hired about a year ago.

Emails are basically kind and supportive of my job search... .very general things about how it is going.

Last evening wife walked in and out of bedroom several times as I was sleeping and said some very vague things about "everyone going to know"... .blah blah... I didn't understand half of what she was saying.

This morning... .more vague things which she would not expand on... .when I asked about a couple... and tried to validate some negative emotions.

Then... .as we were walking back from dropping off d4 at "kindercamp"... .she said more stuff about "it's over... .you had your chance... .ask "fill in lady's name" if you don't understand... .

I told her I was confused... and that I hoped we could slow down and talk about what was on her mind... .

She mocked the "confusion" thing... ."oh... .I know... .my wife is so confusing... .I just don't understand... " (again... imagine a mocking... .pitiful voice... )

Then... .in the only clear... .direct communication of the morning... .she turns and says... ."I want you to keep your hands off me... .we shouldn't speak about anything other than functional things... ."... .without waiting for a response... she turns and walked in the house.

So... she seems to be trying different tactics... .I've offered several times in recent days to chat with her... .etc etc... been very standoffish... .even before she forwarded the emails.


Sigh... .

It's been well over a year... .since she has emailed the kids about me.  There have been some recent things... in last few months where she lectured the kids about what I was thinking and doing... .and why... .basically that I care more about my mom that her...

Hmmm... .

Thoughts... .

I'm going to try and go for walk... keep my mind on other things...

FF

[formflier]

I'm leaning towards ignoring it... .as I don't totally get what she is alleging... .or thinking.

Apparently she finds a computer with my email up on it... .and forwards several emails between me and a lady I hired about a year ago.

Emails are basically kind and supportive of my job search... .very general things about how it is going.

Last evening wife walked in and out of bedroom several times as I was sleeping and said some very vague things about "everyone going to know"... .blah blah... I didn't understand half of what she was saying.

This morning... .more vague things which she would not expand on... .when I asked about a couple... and tried to validate some negative emotions.

Then... .as we were walking back from dropping off d4 at "kindercamp"... .she said more stuff about "it's over... .you had your chance... .ask "fill in lady's name" if you don't understand... .

I told her I was confused... and that I hoped we could slow down and talk about what was on her mind... .

She mocked the "confusion" thing... ."oh... .I know... .my wife is so confusing... .I just don't understand... " (again... imagine a mocking... .pitiful voice... )

Then... .in the only clear... .direct communication of the morning... .she turns and says... ."I want you to keep your hands off me... .we shouldn't speak about anything other than functional things... ."... .without waiting for a response... she turns and walked in the house.

So... she seems to be trying different tactics... .I've offered several times in recent days to chat with her... .etc etc... been very standoffish... .even before she forwarded the emails.


Sigh... .

It's been well over a year... .since she has emailed the kids about me.  There have been some recent things... in last few months where she lectured the kids about what I was thinking and doing... .and why... .basically that I care more about my mom that her...

Hmmm... .

Thoughts... .

I'm going to try and go for walk... keep my mind on other things...

FF

[waverider]

Not completely sure i am following the specifics here.

email to who? the kids, between you and some other woman?

Do you know precisely what she is referring to yet

[Notwendy]

I may be all off base here but is this it?

Did she forward the e mails between this woman and you to the kids, as if the two of you were having some sort of affair?


This is smearing you in front of the kids? And over something like cheating?


This is not a topic to share with kids. Also you are an adult and your private conversations with anyone should not be shared with your children without your consent. This is triangulation, but also violates a child.

I grew up with this. My mother would speak about my father to us to try to smear him, and she did this with my father about me.

However, she went a few steps further and crossed a serious boundary. She spoke of sexual issues. This is not something a kid needs to hear.

I hope this isn't the case. I don't know what to say to the kids. If it is about another woman and you, they are probably mortified. I don't have a suggestion about what to do- if this is the case, it may be a cause for counseling as even today it feels creepy to think about what my mother said to me.

I know you didn't do anything of the sort- no cheating at all, but if she painted this sort of picture of you by sending the e mails to the kids, this would concern me.

An e mail between a female colleague or friend and you is not in any way cheating. I am sorry that she is making something out of this.

[Notwendy]

You can check your "send" box to see if and where any emails were forwarded to.

[formflier]

Not completely sure i am following the specifics here.

email to who? the kids, between you and some other woman?

Do you know precisely what she is referring to yet

Me either... .she forwarded three emails... .between me and a department head level leader that I hired.

I lead a team of people to conduct a search for a new librarian.  National search would be too big of an description... but certainly regional.  We hired this lady from 4 states away... .about 10 hour drive... .

Her qualifications are superb... and seems to have a great family.  I've actually spent more time talking with her husband... .than her... .although I met her first... due to hiring her.  Her husband has "vouched" for me at the company he is working at... .for an executive level job... .I am hopeful for an interview.

Let me do some figuring... .and get some details out here...

She says she sent this stuff to kids... .no idea... .yet... .if anything sexual was alleged.

To be clear... .this is a work relationship.  Was.  She sent me a supportive email express shock at my firing... .

She has mentioned that we should all get together... .this was months ago... .my wife was a bit standoffish about it... .and I was out of town interviewing a bunch... .so... .the idea never went forward.

FF

[formflier]

 


11:24 PM (10 hours ago)

to me this was forwarded to me... from my wife's email.  The lady's email is correct.

FF

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From:ff wife

Date: Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:18 PM

Subject: Lets get togther!

To: other lady


Hey other lady,

Thanks for the info you have been emaiing to FF... . you two have been keeping up! The four of us should get together... .would love to talk with you and your hubby! Lets set a date!  FF wife

[formflier]

 

It appears she sent the exact same email... .about 10 minutes apart.

I believe the BCC'd me on the first one... and it shows up in my gmail... ."chain" of emails.

Now... that takes care of my inbox... .

FF

[formflier]

 

There are several forwards from my email account... .to my wife.  Looks like three email chains... .all total.  She seems to have forwarded them multiple times... .


start of last email where she started the email to me


Hi Stranger. Hope your family and you are doing good. I have not heard from you in a while. How is the job search going?

Remember the Summer Reading Program kicks off tomorrow at the Sheriff's Office  from 11:00-2:00. Your kids would have a great time. The library teamed up with  Sheriff "real name" to reach more kids. Stop by our tables and sign your children up. I have lots of fun activities planned. Plus of course we have Lego Club on Mondays at 3:30 pm. I will be there this week.

Alright better go. Hope FF wife and you are doing good.

"librarian woman"

[MaroonLiquid]

It looks like from my point of view that maybe she is looking for a reason to paint you black and an "affair" is the only thing she can make out right now.  You aren't giving her any other reasons so she is creating one?

[Notwendy]

Well, it is a violation that she got into your e mail and communicated with the person who sent you the email.

I don't know what the purpose of involving the kids in this is, or if she really did it or just said it to support her anger.


If I were that woman, and I had been communicating with you in a working relationship, and your wife sent me an e mail, I would think that something really strange was going on with her and keep my distance. I have worked with male colleagues and not ever had their wives do something like this, but if they did, would think it was strange.

[formflier]

 

Example of one of my responses to her... .this is where she is telling me about her husbands job... .

start of my email to her... .(the other woman)

I had another interview today that I thought went really well... .and I've gotten some calls from references that they are being called.  

I'm going to start looking at non government positions in the "where FF lives" area... .to see if there are any opportunities there.  I like government and that is my first choice... .but want to stay open to other possibilities.

That's great for "other woman's husband"... I hope he likes the position.

end of what I sent her.

Over a several month period... .there are a few emails back and forth.  The biggest thing that she sent me was a copy of her "CV" style resume... .and I used parts of the formatting that I liked.

Here is the thing... .my wife knows that we have been emailing... .back and forth... .we have discussed it before.  Not that it matters... my wife can feel... however she wants to feel about this... .but... .there is nothing here that I consider "secretive"... .

I'm going to check kids emails... .if I can.

FF

[formflier]

 

OK... .so... .she forwarded the emails to S19, D18, s14 also her mom, her aunt and her sister.

Mom aunt and sister are all cut from same cloth... .as far as behavior... .etc etc.


She didn't expand on anything... .make any allegations... .just forwarded the stuff.

I'll post one more... .that might have set her off... .there are some repeat forwards... .but I can imagine her reading these... .getting pissed... .and forwarding...

Oh... .D18 stays logged in on upstairs computer because that is where she prints from... .she has given me password before to help her print from her google docs.   That's how I was able to check the email... .



FF

[formflier]

 

I am aware that this lady and her husband are non-denominational Christians... .but fairly conservative.

While I have never worshiped with them formally... prayer requests are not unusual... .IMO.

They seemed to welcome them... .and I certainly appreciate people praying for me and whatever is going on with me.

"start of my email to her"

Please be praying for my interview with "close by county name" County... .February 3rd at 6pm   It will be with the entire board, clerk and HR director.

Very excited about this... .it would "keep me in the area" of "where FF lives". 



"end of my email to her"

"start of her response to me"

other woman <her email address>

Jan 22

to me

Wow! I definitely will be praying. I was worried the other positions were out of area. Is your family ok with the possibility of a move? Glad your Wednesday interview went well. If they are calling references that is a great sign. Keep me posted.

BOCC are meeting at the library today for workshop.

"other woman"

"end of email chain"

FF

[Notwendy]

well, she violated several boundaries: your e mail, your work relationships, and then your kids. ... and also sent your business to her family.

IMHO, the main theme is violating boundaries- you as a professional and as a parent. And also your marital privacy- involving her family.

Asking for prayers is a common and encouraged thing in just about any religion I can think of, so making more of that seems bizarre to me.

[MaroonLiquid]

OK... .so... .she forwarded the emails to S19, D18, s14 also her mom, her aunt and her sister.

Mom aunt and sister are all cut from same cloth... .as far as behavior... .etc etc.


She didn't expand on anything... .make any allegations... .just forwarded the stuff.

I'll post one more... .that might have set her off... .there are some repeat forwards... .but I can imagine her reading these... .getting pissed... .and forwarding...

Oh... .D18 stays logged in on upstairs computer because that is where she prints from... .she has given me password before to help her print from her google docs.   That's how I was able to check the email... .



FF

Sounds like that is what it is.  Trying to use any excuse she can get her hands on to paint you black and turn eveyone against you... .Easiest way to do that is an "affair".  

well, she violated several boundaries: your e mail, your work relationships, and then your kids. ... and also sent your business to her family.

IMHO, the main theme is violating boundaries- you as a professional and as a parent. And also your marital privacy- involving her family.

Agree with this here.  She violated several boundaries and maybe trying to trigger you

[formflier]

 

OK... .so... I think that is about all of the stuff... .emails I will post... .

No "allegations"... she forwarded the emails.

She apparently sent two emails to the "other woman".  The first one was a forward of the email she sent to me (about summer kick off stuff at Sheriff office)... .

The second was a repeat of the first... .but the forwarded info is not there... .just the same request to "set a date" and get together.

So... .my guess is that she is wanting to communicate to the "other woman" that she "knows" about us... .or something like that (OK... huge guess on my part).

Last night... .some of the muttering that I could make out was about "taking care of things... "  (perhaps this is what she is referring to)

FF

[Fian]

I think you do need to address this with whoever she forwarded your emails.  Apologize for being involved in something that should have remained between the 2 of you (aka point out that your wife should not have sent the email in the first place), and set the facts straight on what you relationship is with this woman.  I don't think nons should allow pwBPD to smear their name.

[formflier]

and maybe trying to trigger you

It's been a while since she "knows" that she triggered me... .I'll have to think about when that happened... .

Probably week or so maybe more... .when I complained to her about the email tasking thing... the chore chart.

I stated my request (that she not send me emails) and moved on... but... .she picked up that I was not happy...

FF

[Notwendy]

From my experience, I don't think you will be successful at getting her to admit she did anything wrong in this case. In fact, she will likely justify this by the "evidence" she found.

My mom snoops, but will not admit it or apologize. She assumes that people are hiding some "dirt" from her and looks for it. If there is no "dirt" she invents it.

Once as a teen I came home early from school and caught her red handed in my room in my letter drawer with my letters from friends ( that was our e mail then) out and she was reading them. She immediately flew into a rage at me for coming home early and not telling her and made no mention of her snooping.

My H also went on a rage at me when he found a yearbook from school and a picture of a crush I had several years before I even met my H. Somehow he made this into some sort of betrayal of my H. I never even went out with the guy- it was just a crush, but my H didn't believe me.

However, the other side of this story is that he was prying into my stuff to find all this out, but to him,  I couldn't possibly get angry at him when he had been "betrayed".

They don't need evidence- if they believe something is true, then they can take something and make it evidence to them.

[formflier]

I think you do need to address this with whoever she forwarded your emails.  Apologize for being involved in something that should have remained between the 2 of you (aka point out that your wife should not have sent the email in the first place), and set the facts straight on what you relationship is with this woman.  I don't think nons should allow pwBPD to smear their name.

Interesting... .

I'm open to suggestions... .this is where my heart is now... .not saying this is what I'm going to do... .but what I'm considering.

I think she wants to get a "rise" out of me... .right now... .I"m about a 1... .on a 0 to 10 trigger scale.  

This is bothersome... .but... it's what she does.  

I know she is a snooper... .and a violater of boundaries... .that is her.  I can't "force" her to stop... .I can be more careful about logging in and out... that kind of thing.

I believe she said that I left a computer open and logged in "on purpose"... .so she would discover all this... .there was more rant and muttering to it... .but that is the gist of what I could hear.  (I didn't respond to any of it... I believe is this case... .I went to another room)

Well... .we have MC this Thursday... .I don't think I will bring it up until then.  

Basically... my response... is no response... .

For MC I'll ask to help me understand how this helps improve our r/s... .what is her purpose... .?  Maybe I'll have copies with me so she can point out my "transgressions"... .who knows.

FF

[formflier]

 

I also don't think... that I will mention this... .to the "other woman" or her husband. 

As I think about boundaries... .I don't want to explain... .apologize for... .or any of that... .my wife's behavior and choices.  She made them... .not me.

Wife mentioned a few days ago that stress level in house was through the roof... .I validated... .left it at that.

There are tons of stressors... .without having to invent one.

ff

[Notwendy]

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - no need to "protest" an affair that didn't happen.


You did nothing so you have nothing to defend. Making a statement defending that you didn't have an affair, may in some way validate this.

As to your kids, maybe saying nothing is best. They may think that they just got some strange e mails. They may not be even thinking "affair". It's like the facts of life- I usually see if they have the question before giving then too much information. A 2 year old is quite happy thinking a baby comes from mommy's tummy and doesn't need to know more at that moment.

So your kids may see these e mails as entirely different. Or they may think it was spam- and that you and your wife's e mail was hacked. There is plenty of junk that gets into people's e mails.

Maybe say nothing, unless they ask. Then say "oh yeah, some work e mails were sent by accident. I think we got hacked" and leave it at that unless they ask more. I don't advocate lying but airing the stuff between you and your wife to the kids isn't appropriate.

Not quite a lie- they did get hacked. Mom was the hacker. This might be something to discuss later but maybe not now.

The main issue is between you and your wife, not the kids.

[sweetheart]

Hi ff,

I would say absolutely nothing unless she brings it up with you again, directly and in person.

Also tighten up your computer access unless you aren't worried about your wife doing this again. As you say this is something she does.

I would not bring it up with your kids unless they seek you out about it. They will be well aware of their mothers idiosyncratic behaviours and see it for what it is.

Underlying issue again seems to link to the changing roles within your household. Your wife has been low level disgruntled for quite sometime now and has been trying to bait you on and off since your roles switched.

I can't remember if you are in MC, but addressing the changes in your relationship roles might help you explore the underlying feelings of your wife's behaviour.

[formflier]

 

I may have just taken the bait (I'm not triggered)... .but I did listen to an interesting phone conversation...

I feel a bit weird about continuing to listen... .but... they called me... .I don't think they meant to.  Basically... .the house phone (landline) rings... .I pick it up... .and they are in full conversation.  My assumptions is that they are both on cell phones.

Well... .it also could be innocent... .my wife is not that good with technology.

I think what happened... .is she is talking to her aunt... .and bumped her phone to add a call to home.  She has done this before... .

Well... it is major BPD land about what they "know" about what their husbands are thinking and feeling... .

She was telling stories about my desire for this other woman... .the aunt suspects I will get beaten up by the lady's husband quite soon... .the entire conversation was how my wife should "deal" with my betrayal.

So... .not sure if I should have listened... .or not.  I really ended up more sad at the delusional stuff they were talking about.

No plans to bring it up... .and really... .no news here... .many of my assumptions about how she thinks and processes things were confirmed... .

Sigh...


FF

[sweetheart]

ff it is sad when we realise the level of distorted reality that accompanies this disorder.

I don't need to tell you listening in is never good, you know this.

Feeling triggered is fine, just don't pick up the gauntlet.

Find a way to validate her underlying insecurities when she brings this stuff up.

It all sounds really emotionally quite draining, how are you taking care of yourself with this constant disruption ?

[KateCat]

formflier, is it possible your wife's mental health issues have impacted your career (past positions and even present employment search) more than you may know?

I like sweetheart's idea of tightening up the privacy of your communications in order to turn the tide.

[formflier]

formflier, is it possible your wife's mental health issues have impacted your career (past positions and even present employment search) more than you may know?

I like sweetheart's idea of tightening up the privacy of your communications in order to turn the tide.

I am sure it has impacted it. 

It is... .what it is.

Certainly I will try to be tighter about communications... .that is a given. 

More in  just a minute

FF

[formflier]

 

So... .I talked with my wife... .

We actually had a good... .respectful conversation.

Towards the end... .she started getting a bit worked up... .but it boils down to the word "anything"

So... .she feels that I am flinging the door open to another r/s  with this woman... .because in one sentence I said (typed) something to the effect that she can talk to me about grants... .library issues... ."anything". 

I had zero intention to start a "personal" r/s with her... .become "best friends"... .any of that.  I used to be the lady's boss... .and was attempting to put her at ease... that even though I was not the boss there anymore... .she can talk to me... ask me questions about how things work there... .etc etc.

So... my wife said this... .I'm not going to be able to get it down word for word... .

"Because you have found a woman that you want to talk to about "anything"... .and I'm supposed to be your best friend... .and we can talk about anything... .you are wanting someone to replace me.  So... .now that I'm no better than anyone else... .we can just be friends... .nothing more.  If you want to talk about deeper things... .go talk with the woman that you want to talk to "anything" with.

So... she left the conversation... .and is going to the pool with some of our younger girls.

I'm not triggered... .I'm disappointed... bummed... .

There's no fighting this... .my plan right now is to let this burn itself out... .without me adding more fuel to the fire.

FF

[formflier]

formflier, is it possible your wife's mental health issues have impacted your career (past positions and even present employment search) more than you may know?

I like sweetheart's idea of tightening up the privacy of your communications in order to turn the tide.

KateCat,

The lady's husband has "flagged" my record (application) at his work... .sort of "vouched" that he knows me... .to hopefully break that record out and get me an interview.

So... .now that my wife has forwarded these emails... .and (new information)... .posted about this... or some vague reference to this on Facebook... .(also apparently taken down now... .I'm not a Facebooker... )... .likelihood of this guy continuing to support me in this effort is?   Who knows...


I have no plans to reach out to either of them about this... .I didn't do it... .they may or may not ask about it.

If they do... .I plan to refer them to my wife for questions about why... .and not explain or defend... or apologize for... .her actions.

Any thoughts on if that should be handled differently?

FF

[formflier]

 

Also... .not planning on emailing or saying  anything to the kids about this... .

Any thoughts on that?

FF