Has anyone else experienced this with their exBPD?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

As I have been throwing away/deleting everything that reminds me of him – the cards, notes, little gifts, emails, text messages, voicemails….(even a bag of chips we bought together  )…

It made me think how, particularly in the last 5-6 months of the r/s, he was different when we were apart and when we were together. We texted a lot during the day, every day, and he was always sweet, caring, loving, funny…and he used to leave messages on my work voicemail 2-3 times a week, saying he loved me, was happy of our life together, wanted us to work, how he admired such and such thing about me…He was the guy I had met and fell in love with.

When we were physically together during these  last few months (weekends and 1-2 nights a week), he was mainly creating conflict over nothing, telling me how he was not sure we should pursue the r/s due to ‘what we did to each other’, often distant and defensive, acted bored/irritated, making me feel like everything I said or did was of no interest or stupid, rolling his eyes or laughing and then saying ‘I’m not laughing at you’…etc etc. But in text/voicemail, totally different person. The sensitive, nice, sweet, ‘innocent’ (even childish sometimes) and funny guy.

I don’t know how to explain it…like it was easier for him to keep the good/loving person act when we were not physically together? Like he was trying to return to the idealization phase when we were apart? Or it was just his way to keep me attached, easier when I was not in his face, since he could barely tolerate me in the end?… Has anyone experienced this with their exBPD?  This kind of marked duality? Maybe I’m just over analyzing…or not relevant? 

Anyway, any feedback/similar experience welcome - thanks! 

[Yolanda123]

As I have been throwing away/deleting everything that reminds me of him – the cards, notes, little gifts, emails, text messages, voicemails….(even a bag of chips we bought together  )…

It made me think how, particularly in the last 5-6 months of the r/s, he was different when we were apart and when we were together. We texted a lot during the day, every day, and he was always sweet, caring, loving, funny…and he used to leave messages on my work voicemail 2-3 times a week, saying he loved me, was happy of our life together, wanted us to work, how he admired such and such thing about me…He was the guy I had met and fell in love with.

When we were physically together during these  last few months (weekends and 1-2 nights a week), he was mainly creating conflict over nothing, telling me how he was not sure we should pursue the r/s due to ‘what we did to each other’, often distant and defensive, acted bored/irritated, making me feel like everything I said or did was of no interest or stupid, rolling his eyes or laughing and then saying ‘I’m not laughing at you’…etc etc. But in text/voicemail, totally different person. The sensitive, nice, sweet, ‘innocent’ (even childish sometimes) and funny guy.

I don’t know how to explain it…like it was easier for him to keep the good/loving person act when we were not physically together? Like he was trying to return to the idealization phase when we were apart? Or it was just his way to keep me attached, easier when I was not in his face, since he could barely tolerate me in the end?… Has anyone experienced this with their exBPD?  This kind of marked duality? Maybe I’m just over analyzing…or not relevant? 

Anyway, any feedback/similar experience welcome - thanks! 

[jammo1989]

Hey Yolanda, before I try and write a lengthy response, do you know anything about his childhood, like relationship with parents?   

[Yolanda123]

Hi jammo,

I don't know much of his childhood: when he talked about it, it was mainly telling small anecdotes. Almost all of them related to things he did with his father, whom he seemed to idealize a lot. I never heard him say anything remotely negative about his dad. As to his mother, he did not talk a lot about her - I did not know her much and did not witness much of their Relationship since she lived 3 hours away, but she seemed rather distant towards him. I remember last Christmas, she gave him a card and had written 'I like you' (je t'aime bien in French) in it - he turned this into a joke but I could tell he was hurt. When he talked about her, it was mainly to say she had to go back to work after she divorced his father, and how she took care of him and his 2 brothers on her own and how that must have been hard on her.

Thanks for your feedback

[jammo1989]

Hi jammo,

I don't know much of his childhood: when he talked about it, it was mainly telling small anecdotes. Almost all of them related to things he did with his father, whom he seemed to idealize a lot. I never heard him say anything remotely negative about his dad. As to his mother, he did not talk a lot about her - I did not know her much and did not witness much of their Relationship since she lived 3 hours away, but she seemed rather distant towards him. I remember last Christmas, she gave him a card and had written 'I like you' (je t'aime bien in French) in it - he turned this into a joke but I could tell he was hurt. When he talked about her, it was mainly to say she had to go back to work after she divorced his father, and how she took care of him and his 2 brothers on her own and how that must have been hard on her.

Thanks for your feedback

Oh right ok, the reason why I asked this is because there was probably a point in his childhood, or physical environment that may have caused his BPD, If he truly is BPD, from what you've written it is extremely common for sufferers to portray such behavior.  Im not a psychologist, but almost everything I write on this forum is based on my own experience and countless hours of reading in some cases obsessively as I tend to over analyse events untill I have created my own closure to accept and eventually move on, so lets get started.

BPDs dont tend to work on what us NONs see and use as the middle ground.  For example, not happy not sad just normal.  This is where splitting comes from its the term used to describe how the BPD sufferer sees the world around them all good or all bad, (black and white) there is no in between (grey area).  To try and help you further understand a BPD will either idolize us (see no faults) or devalue (loathe, hate us)  for example a BPD might say "I hate him so much" then when asked why whats wrong with him? they wont have a legitimate response "I really don't know I just hate him" Now, to try and answer your question the middle ground doesn't resonate with your ex.  For example, if you get to close, he will feel smothered and try to push you away, he will do this by raging and trying to verbally attack you because you are now the trigger to his abandonment fears (if I get to close she cant hurt me) Furthermore, when your distant (kept at an arms length) they will also fear abandonment, and to resolve this they may use the push/pull behavior, they do this by pulling you in when they fear abandonment ( I miss you, I love you) then when you get to close they will sense that fear again and push you away (I hate you) Now when your going through this process its seen as the Devalue/ discard stage, they now see you as the trigger to their anxiety and they resent you for it, they hate the way you make them feel, they reach out to try and soothe that pain BUT when you respond they push you away "I hate you for making me feel like this" It is at this point they will either find a new attachment almost immediately or they will take away your sanity by prolonging the push/pull behavior until they either find a new attachment or until they seek professional help to help address their inner demons.  In hindsight to all this a Non sees people as humans (our traits, our faults, our personality) the BPD sees us as objects.  For example, to try and help you understand this a little more, us as NONs we can see the good and bad in people (the grey area) for example "she really annoys me sometimes, but she can be a great person"  Where as the BPD will hate and hate so intensely that they don't understand why.  "I hate you, I dont know why I just do"  If you want to get get really technical their brain chemistry is faulty and the part of the brain that controls logic, rational thinking, and impulsive behavior is wired differently to that of ours.  What I mean by this is, they are so wrapped up with intense emotions that they cant process the good in others they can only see the all good or all bad.  Feel free to ask any further questions, ill be more than happy to help.

Take care


Jammo                      

[Yolanda123]

Very interesting - Thank you jammo for taking the time to reply

[Low C]

Not disagreeing with the above at all, but I do feel like my ex was a more complex and worthy-of-empathy human being.  The broad points of what's written above all seem true to my experiences, but at the day-to-day level my ex was just more complex.  As are we all.  

I experienced a similar disconnect in behaviors and mediums.  In my case it tended to be with emails and phone calls she was likely to become hostile and punitive.  In person and in texts she tended to be more loving and expressive.

I do think though, and this is where I saw the humanity in her that I loved, I think she was often at least instinctively aware of her dis-regulation and some of the loving texts and expressions were actually an attempt to soothe herself, remind herself of the positive, caring feelings that she knew she had, but couldn't access at that point.  She was talking herself into being a loving partner (I'd like to think because she knew shew was loving even if she couldn't find those emotions at that moment).

And where that whole scenario is unhealthy, it did mean she was truly struggling and truly trying.  Which does leave me with a great deal of empathy for her, even though I've been NC for 7 months.

[Yolanda123]

Thank you Low C for sharing.

I can relate to what you're saying. I can say that through his loving messages and texts, it sometimes felt like he WANTED to love me... .but was, as you say, unable to access the feelings. Telling me that he loved this and that about me... .almost like he thought he should love me, but could not... .

That's a very complex disorder... .I need answers, but sometimes I feel like the more I read about it the more confused I become. Maybe I just need a little break from here  just stop thinking about it for a while... .

I think empathy is a good place to be... .a place of understanding the disorder better and

not seeing our exBPD just as  ... not all black... .not easy to do when this person hurt us so bad... .not quite there yet myself, still navigating through pain, anger, incomprehension... .

How long did your Relationship last? How are you doing now after 7 months NC?

[jammo1989]

Not disagreeing with the above at all, but I do feel like my ex was a more complex and worthy-of-empathy human being.  The broad points of what's written above all seem true to my experiences, but at the day-to-day level my ex was just more complex.  As are we all.  

I experienced a similar disconnect in behaviors and mediums.  In my case it tended to be with emails and phone calls she was likely to become hostile and punitive.  In person and in texts she tended to be more loving and expressive.

I do think though, and this is where I saw the humanity in her that I loved, I think she was often at least instinctively aware of her dis-regulation and some of the loving texts and expressions were actually an attempt to soothe herself, remind herself of the positive, caring feelings that she knew she had, but couldn't access at that point.  She was talking herself into being a loving partner (I'd like to think because she knew shew was loving even if she couldn't find those emotions at that moment).

And where that whole scenario is unhealthy, it did mean she was truly struggling and truly trying.  Which does leave me with a great deal of empathy for her, even though I've been NC for 7 months.

Yeah they do have empathy to some degree, and is usually seen in small amounts dependent on where and how the BPD sufferer feels at that specific time.  The main point im trying to address here is the fact that BPD want to be loved BUT they dont feel worthy enough and as a result of this they cant seem to process it in the same way a NON does.  BPDs see others as a means to an end.  For example, based on my experience the BPD/HPD is in search of the love they missed or didn't receive in the early stages of childhood.  This is why you see a lot, me included talk about she expected me to pay and support her, no matter what I did it was never good enough.  We as NONs have learned about the very characteristics the BPD was never taught, empathy, love, trust, ETC.  Thus meaning we see others for their positives and negatives we dont look for support, we look to share our life experiences with that special someone.  Where as they are looking to fill that void and they do this by attaching to others to avoid abandonment, they are looking for a protector, someone to attach to and provide.  The problem is that these traits found in the BPD means they wont let others in, as they cant trust and this is the factor that divides us NONs from them, we trusted our parents and they fulfilled their roles to provide and protect, where as the BPD most probably missed out on that bond, so what ou end up with is a lost child in an adults body looking for the one (wanting to feel love)  but because of their low self worth they dont feel worthy (if my parents didnt love me no one will) this then leads to a sense of confusion they dont know how to receive and process our love so in turn when they feel as if we are smothering them they push us away because that feeling they have always longed for makes them feel trapped and all they want to do is run before they get hurt all over again, childhood trauma.            

[Yolanda123]

Thank you Jammo

The problem is that these traits found in the BPD means they wont let others in, as they cant trust and this is the factor that divides us NONs from them, we trusted our parents and they fulfilled their roles to provide and protect, where as the BPD most probably missed out on that bond, so what ou end up with is a lost child in an adults body looking for the one (wanting to feel love)  but because of their low self worth they dont feel worthy (if my parents didnt love me no one will) this then leads to a sense of confusion they dont know how to receive and process our love so in turn when they feel as if we are smothering them they push us away because that feeling they have always longed for makes them feel trapped and all they want to do is run before they get hurt all over again, childhood trauma.

   

That helps a lot in understanding the disorder. My ex actually told me the day I broke up with him that he felt trapped. And he said it's not because of you, you are the opposite of controlling.

[jammo1989]

Thank you Jammo

The problem is that these traits found in the BPD means they wont let others in, as they cant trust and this is the factor that divides us NONs from them, we trusted our parents and they fulfilled their roles to provide and protect, where as the BPD most probably missed out on that bond, so what ou end up with is a lost child in an adults body looking for the one (wanting to feel love)  but because of their low self worth they dont feel worthy (if my parents didnt love me no one will) this then leads to a sense of confusion they dont know how to receive and process our love so in turn when they feel as if we are smothering them they push us away because that feeling they have always longed for makes them feel trapped and all they want to do is run before they get hurt all over again, childhood trauma.

   

That helps a lot in understanding the disorder. My ex actually told me the day I broke up with him that he felt trapped. And he said it's not because of you, you are the opposite of controlling.

Glad I could help, see the problem is like I said they don't process love like we do, so what tends to happen is the NON tends to start blaming themselves and pondering what if I did this, what if i did that.  You build up a co dependency as its within our nature to help others, this then creates a trauma bond which over time will only affect your mental health.  The cold hard truth is, these people want to be saved, but are scared of the unknown, the more you tell them I love you, and that you care for them the more the will start to hate and resent you, because you are triggering their abandonment because they have now let you in so far and to the BPD thats to much so they must back off.  Like I said im not a therapist so Im not going to give you actual advice but I can try and help you understand the disorder more,  the NC was and is used to protect him from any further triggers and every time you reach out it will only set him off again because he is now referring you to his anxiety and depression, kind of like how one may react when faced with a PTSD event.  He may in the future reach out to you again, but dont be surprised if he reaches out to you, only to go NC again, yes these are mind games and will only hurt you, but to him he wants to be in control he wants you at a certain distance, he may call on a withheld number and hang up when he hears your voice as to him thats soothing, but if you were to call him in response to this you will only push him away again.  You cant win here, you either play into the dance of hot and cold which i promise you will lead to PTSD symptoms over a long period of time, or you stick to NC and accept that he has a mental illness and that thers nothing you can do to help, so trust me when I say your better off without him.         

[Low C]

How long did your Relationship last? How are you doing now after 7 months NC?






Thank you for asking.  I was with my ex for almost 2 years.

After this much time NC, I feel much more peaceful.  I don't feel so much hurt or confusion, for sure.  I feel more focused on my life and my priorities.  I've gained a couple pounds and sleep so much better.  I feel like I am all around more in touch with my feelings, and that I have more empathy for friends, family and people I interact with at work, because one toxic individual is not overtaxing my abilities to consider other people's feelings.

I do still visit this forum.  There are still some things that happen during the day that can trigger some doubts and guilt, and it helps to share here.  I don't feel ready to get involved in another relationship.  I've tested the waters a couple of times and found that I'm not quite ready to be vulnerable, or to risk being that focused on another person right now.  I do think being single is actually okay in a lot of ways.

I think you can trust that you'll be there or better off even soon.  Take care!

[Yolanda123]

Thank you Low C

That helps a lot. I'm gonna keep your message to read when I'm having bad days.

Take care too 

[Suzn]

Hi Yolanda  

You may find this information useful in understanding what may have been happening. It sounds like objectifying. There is a really good thread discussion within the link below.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Objectifying the romantic partner

Hope it helps.

[apollotech]

Hi Yolanda,

Sounds like to me he was attempting to avoid engulfment. He could regulate his emotions when y'all were apart but not when y'all were together. When y'all were together, he created distance between y'all with his behavior. IMO, that's why you saw the two different personalities, one fearing/trying to avoid engulfment and one free of engulfment issues. These boards have many stories of long distance relationships souring once the distance is removed. Like you, I noticed that my BPDexgf was different when we were separated. She couldn't/can't handle togetherness/intimacy.

[WhatJustHappened?]

Actually yes. Me and my ex had a long distance relationship so much of our intense contact was via Skype and the phone. When were physically together, it was awkward at times. I saw things like the mood swings and zoning out that was concerning. She also spoke to me differently - not as supportive.

I remember one visit, it was so bad that I was close to asking her to take back to the airport. I didn't know what going on at that time with BPD but now that I know, it makes sense.

I also noticed that her desire to meet in person started to slow down. All of the sudden, every medical problem in the world started happening. Even though I offered to come help her, she refused. 

[Yolanda123]

Thank you all for your replies and sharing information/similar experiences