First contact from ex in nearly 4 months

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm certainly NOT flattered like I thought I might have been. 

What would have / could have flattered you?

[Skip]

I'm certainly NOT flattered like I thought I might have been. 

What would have / could have flattered you?

[DyingLove]

I'm certainly NOT flattered like I thought I might have been. 

What would have / could have flattered you?

Probably the "typical" behavior that you hear about. How they are right on top of you after a BU (sometimes). That lack of contact almost made me feel like even after getting discarded, I wasn't even worth the attention that an exBPD might exhibit.

Everything is so jumbled and confused within a BPD BU, or should I say in MY BU that I used the NC behavior stereotype as a way of not taking everything as much "to heart".  That kind of thinking has it's consequences too.  There is a saying I always used: You don't have to know how to build a car to drive one. Even though some knowledge is good, you don't have to know.  Well, I don't wanna have to become a therapist or life coach to get over all this either.  Until 4 years ago, it was all unknown to me. So for 55 years of my life, I didn't know anything about this. I don't feel that I've missed anything either for all that matters.

[Skip]

Are you hoping she would reach out?  Maybe even try to mend some of what happened? Do you want there to be some mending?

When you moved out they way you did - what message were you trying to send?

Do you think yesterday was about her "fighting you on her turf" and "bullying"?

What message do you think you sent yesterday?

[DyingLove]

Are you hoping she would reach out?  Maybe even try to mend some of what happened? Do you want there to be some mending?

When you moved out they way you did - what message were you trying to send?

Do you think yesterday was about her "fighting you on her turf" and "bullying"?

What message do you think you sent yesterday?

I'd be a liar if I said that I didn't want her back under the right circumstances.  I loved this woman and was IN LOVE with her from the very beginning.  This part was traumatic. Yes I did lose someone I loved and it might as well be death, but add insult to it via BPD.  I would love her to reach and and say, "look at me, I'm getting help, I'm doing better, I'm sorry for what happened, I still love you, I've been with no one since we broke up. etc".  I could possibly see a continuance. The way it is now, that would and could never happen.

They are always fighting on their turf. What they do "IS" their turf. That's why you can't win, you can only run for cover.

I don't think I was consciously sending a message, but hopefully the fact that I will not be abused nor be receptive to the things that she used to do to me.  Maybe the fact that I've changed since I've been away from her, more like I used to be before meeting her.  It seems in what she said, that she hasn't changed very much.  There is so much and so little to be deciphered from the limited communication we had yesterday.  I also see how I could have given her the response that she wanted, had I not thought things out carefully as well as ask for suggestions and help.

[Skip]

What response do you think she wanted?

[DyingLove]

What response do you think she wanted?

Well, I gave her exactly what she asked for.  When we were a couple, things were more pleasant for the most part. She was never a master of the written word, but her tone was with some emotion and feeling. When she painted me black, I was a stranger, discarded, worthless to her. So her emotionless questions/responses are perfectly following her demeanor.  I think she wanted me to be more "talkative", but not that it would become pleasant.  I think my brief-ness pissed her off. I can be wrong though.

[Skip]

I don't know if you can easily see this, a lot of conflicting things in the things that you say and do.

This is not fault finding - its intended to be fix focusing.  If you can see yourself in this, you can then start to move out of it.

I don't know if you've studied the 4 horsemen (Gottman) or the Karpman Triangle - we have articles for both here (use the Google box below the moderators names) - but there are learned behaviors that we can fall into in difficult relationships that are self defeating.

We want to shed these.  To do that, we have to see them and we have to be committed to end them. They become second nature - a habit to break.

4 Horsemen Gottman shows four stage of communication breakdown that occur when a relationship fails. One point he makes is that when you reach stage 4, it is totally self defeating. In stage 4 we become conditioned to failure, and so we become overly defensive and make often matters worse (or at least not better).

I think you have the hallmarks of communicating in the stage 4 style. It most likely started months before you left.  The way you left was very stage 4.  Yesterday was stage 4.

It likely a byproduct of the relationship, but it shapes (distorts) how we see things and it will take some focus to shed it.

For example, you really desire that she reach out - even if its just to be cordial - but you are communicating back to her in what can only be perceived as angry, and bitter (the way you left, the NC, the texts yesterday). You even call it "fighting back".

We could argue that there is only a 50% chance (or 20%) that she will become cordial with you (she did with her other exs) - but if you're are putting up an angry and bitter front - its 0% chance.

No matter how justified - moving out the way that you did, and responding the way you have is not consistent with leaving the door open for fence mending. I think it will feel better to you if you can balance the hopes and the fears and rise out of stage 4. It takes a lot of mental energy to be out of balance like this.

I'm not suggesting you reach out (or not reach out), I am saying that it will help to get out of stage 4 and it will help to align what you want with how you act.  It doesn't make sense to want her to open up while you are shutting her down. Pick one.

Karpmen triangleThe other learned behavior is a Karpmen triangle victim. We can get into a mindset that we are helpless and take on a not-so-great way of dealing with things. We gravitate to what Karpman calls the ulterior game. Fjedstadt explains this well in her book, Stop CareTaking the Borderline or Narcissist.  We have a good article here too.

If you look at how things escalated yesterday, step by step (post by post) its follows a classic a Karpman pattern and it ends here:



From Karpman

The victim  sincerely feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in... .

From you (yesterday)

When we fight a bully on their own turf they have the advantage, the know the lay of the land and where to hide and where to run and where to FIND YOU when you hide.  Texting and emails and phone calls and letters that are nasty, hurtful and other unspeakable things. My ex wanted to fight me on her turf today.  No one is better at manipulating me and devaluing me than she is. WHY? because those things are HER TURF, and not mine. She'll win every time.

I know you love her.  I know that this was a huge loss.  I know it seems senseless and irrational.  I know it really did a number on you.

[DyingLove]

I think this is all too deep. In my opinion.


She asks a question and I answer it. She asks another question and I answer it. She takes a "shot" at me and I don't respond.

Am I supposed to, excuse how I put this, kiss her butt so that she can possibly shoot me down with some more lousy comments or remarks?

Yeah, this is the woman that I loved for 4+ years. But it's also the woman that told me to take a bus when I couldn't walk, the woman that sleeps in a real bed while I sleep on a blow up mattress. The woman that helped turn me into a pile of goo.

I may feel that I want her back at times. Sometimes McDonalds sounds good until it's in our face too.  I am not going to turn around and go back now. Not after all I've been thru.  I'm sure that a lot of people go thru this exact same thing, but maybe I just talk about it more, maybe I'm more in the limelight because I choose to post.  No one is gonna guarantee me a good response from her. Period. I'm just trying to get over this stuff and I don't wanna become a therapist like I said earlier. I've never had any problems in the prior years of my life, none like this.  I know a BPD relationship is tougher to get over, but, tell me, what the heck happened in this post!  I just needed advice about what to write back, and the consensus was fairly unanimous about what I wrote.  

In a sense, my responses to this post are kinda similar to my response to my ex. I kept it simple in the email. But I got into depth with this post and it kinda went, I don't know where!  All the advice is appreciated as well as the technical theory, but I think I need two aleve now.

[jhkbuzz]

DyingLove, you may not be in a space to hear what Skip is saying to you right now - and that's okay. I went through (and through and through) many stages of anger, feeling like a solid block of pain, feeling the need to self-protect, feeling heart-rending sadness, etc. - so I understand.

However, when you're in a better, clearer space, go back and re-read what he's trying to share with you - they're very wise words, and will help with your healing.