Am I doing the right thing? Being pulled by FOG

[MiserableDaughter]

I've posted on this before... .but now it's actually happening. My husband, myself, and my 3 year old are moving across the country from my UBPD mom and en dad. I haven't told them yet. I know they will be devastated especially due to my 3 year old. But frankly they've made my life miserable. Everything is about my mom and her needs. I've tried to fight... .I've tried LC but again she pushes her way back in. There is always something. Birthdays, anniversaries, Mother's Day, Father's Day... .Some reason for which we end up getting together. And them seeing my son about every two weeks which I've limited it to. She keeps trying... .Pushing for more. Whispering "do you love grandma?" In his ear all the time... .

My marriage, almost 13 years, is on the brink of divorce. My husband has become a bitter, angry critical individual. I have MS. He had a heart attack at 40. (I am 36 and he 42.) he blames the heart attack on "me and my family " as if we are on one side... .I've never defended my mom... .But I've never been able to go Nc... .Only LC. And my Husband still sees them for a bit on birthdays etc and it infuriates hjm to even see them.

I've never been all there in my marriage. I admit it. I try and my mom somehow sucks me into her next drama and guilt whether I want to or not. Two weeks ago, I caught my husband lying about some money he had spent on his family and lied to me about on a few occasions. I just asked what was going on and he flipped... .Admitted heied but then screamed that me and my "effing family" had "effed" him up... .Said we gave hjm a heart attack etc. He tried to walk out on me and our son 4 times in the same night... .

The only reason I stopped him was because I didn't want to explain it to my parents and get their "I told you so!" It would have been become more about them than me... .Their drama. They would have done everything to suck me back into their home and world... .

I don't know if moving is the answer but I feel like I need to test my marriage outside of this environment with my parents always lingering. I feel like as long as they are around, my husband will always just see me as my moms daughter and not his wife... .He's lost his mind a bit with all this. He used to be a nice loving guy who cared of he hurt me... .I'm not sure that person is there anymore. But I feel like I need to get as far away from my parents and try a new start with my husband to figure it out. And if it's done, I don't want to force it only because my parents will make it alllllll about them. I feel like I need to get outside of all this to figure it out. Right now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... .My husband or parents... .I'm so lost.

And after all they've taken away from me, I'm feeling so guilty for leaving... .but my bro and his new wife (they are getting married next week) will be living closer to them now so they won't be alone... .I'll miss living near my bro and his wife but priority is to try to repair my marriage for the sake of my son... .

Am I following the right path ? Please advise... .

[Sunfl0wer]

If there are issues in the r/s surrounding boundary setting.  When you move, there will likely remain issues around boundary setting.

Would you still want to move if you knew that the r/s between your husband and you, will remain exactly as it has been the past three months?

(I'm not saying that nothing will change, (in either direction) I'm just saying, it may be a good idea to not count on it, and make a decision based on the reality of your r/s the way it is now.)

Edit: What would your decision making thought process look like if you eliminated all fear, obligation and guilt?  Can you talk through what you want, pros and cons... .without mentioning any FOG?

[MiserableDaughter]

If there are issues in the r/s surrounding boundary setting.  When you move, there will likely remain issues around boundary setting.

-- The issues are a lot of built up resentment on his part. He thinks I should have cut my parents off but I didn't... .And we never get a chance to heal cause my mom continues he roller coaster... .Every two weeks there is something... .

Would you still want to move if you knew that the r/s between your husband and you, will remain exactly as it has been the past three months?

-- yes... To give it a chance to heal... .

(I'm not saying that nothing will change, (in either direction) I'm just saying, it may be a good idea to not count on it, and make a decision based on the reality of your r/s the way it is now.)

Edit: What would your decision making thought process look like if you eliminated all fear, obligation and guilt?  Can you talk through what you want, pros and cons... .without mentioning any FOG?

So without the fog... .My husband and I never had a chance to develop a good base. It was taken away by my mother. So on top, multiple health issues developed. I always felt like I wanted to move away from my mom... Get space to breathe... .i had a feeling that the longer we waited to move, the more out marriage would suffer. I knew that I was incapable of constantly fighting... .and id be exhausted and it weighed down on my marriage... .

So I guess if im looking without fog, I'm looking for a chance to start fresh the way we should have when we first got married... .New place. New friends. New adventures! Building a new life together without constantly having my mom hound us for weekends, or guilt etc. And a chance to rediscover each other in a new space... .And just wanna live a little! I'm 36. He just turned 42. I feel like we are 70. We don't have sex... .I feel like nothing to look forward to and here I want Somethijg to look forward to together. And I want to be who I want to be... .I want to reinvent myself a little without the constant stress around me...

[Sunfl0wer]

It sounds like you are saying that you want to move, so that your r/s can be different.  

Am I understanding?

What are the pros and cons of moving?

Expenses?

Work opportunities?

Housing?

School opportunities for your child?

Family networks?

Friends?

Social opportunities?

Anything else that is important to you... .

It seems clear that you want to get away from things... .start over.

Would it be helpful for you hash out loud with us all of the process and decisions that will need to be considered?


Edit: In reply to your question, "Am I following the right path?"

Idk

However, I think putting BOTH heart AND mind issues on the table is a good step in sorting that out.

[MiserableDaughter]

Lol... Better? Not really. The status quo... .Sort of... We have a lot here. We are both very educated and high earners. I'm an attorney and husband high in corporate ladder. We have a very nice home right now. Our son is in a good school. Have good friends etc. What we don't have is a good marriage. It's deteriorated over the years because of akk my mon's crap... .My husband literally has PTSD from it... .and regardless of financial stability we have MS and heart disease... .we would need to rent our house out here because we don't want to sell it...

So if anything it's a hassle in terms of logistics.  But something  has to be done. Right now I have two massive problems. My parents (mom in particular) and my husband. I'm trying to handle both... .If I try to focus on my husband, my mom will suck me in to something. Then I get overwhelmed and freaked... .How can I deal with both and keep them apart from each other? I'm drowning here... .I need to have the soace and freedom to just focus on my marriage without worrying about seeing my mom next week.

So in an ideal world, my husband would also say screw it. She's crazy! It's ok, and calm me down when I panic. Instead he gets more and more angry at me... .When he does on occasion meet them, he is very straight faced like he's being published, which I get but makes it all very uncomfortable... .I try to avoid then seeing each other as much as possible but locally it's impossible completely unless NC. He has such anger at her and it triggers him.

He only sees me in light of her... .In light of his resentment because there are constantly issues. I want to be seen separately from that. I want my husband's resentment to maybe go down when he's in a new relaxing place and doesn't need to encounter my mom so much... .I want to only deak with him and not my mom for once!

[lucylou]

Hi Miserable daughter. I just wanted to chime in and say if you want to give it a go and put some distance then why not? You will still have your home to come back to if it doesnt work out for you both. I am NC with my BPD mom and have been for 3 years off and on, However somedays I think about getting back in touch. The reason I have not done this is because I know she will start calling up everyday and slowly begin to engulf me all over again. Yes i could put in boundaries but with her it is very very difficult as she ignores them. If i challenge her about it she acts all hurt and offended. She also has a nose for discord so I  would also be on edge if myself and my husband had had a row.I find it difficult to hide things from her.She is almost psychic in detecting any problems in my relationships. She thrives on my unhappiness. She reminds me of Endorra off the TV show bewitched  always causing doubt and mischief. I had a previous 11 year relationship and at the time I seriously considered moving away wit my then partner because we never got a weekend together. She came over every single weekend and we took her on holidays too. I didnt see how that impacted on my first partner.

I would hate her to know now if my new marriage was having any ups and downs.I completely understand how you feel about being in the middle. It is such a difficult position to be in trying to keep everyone happy. I have only been married for one year and my  husband is already fed up with my obsession with my parents and the past etc. If you  need to get away for a bit then I think you have every right to give it a go and see if it makes any difference to your relationship. It s hard to relax when you have an engulfing nosey mother constantly needing  drama to feed off. It may even help your MS and your husbands  health issues. I know I drive my husband to his cigarettes but i guess they cannot understand how infuriating it can be to have a mother like this. 

I have to admit at the moment i am in a similar position with my husbands family as we are on holiday in his country (Hungary) at the moment. We live in the Uk. Anyway his brother are hoarders wwhich I am finding very difficult to deal with. I guess it is not easy for any of us to have to put up with difficult in laws I hope any  decision you make will be the best one for yourself and your dear hubby best wishes and good luck 

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you LucyLou,

Your mom sounds like mine... .I try with boundaries but then all offended and more drama... .I think more than anything I'm feeling guilty for taking their grandson away (only one) and as my mom says, he is her "life support... ." This is very scary to me... .I was her life support. I don't want him to be.

Over that, I am feeling horribly sad because my husband is "stonewalling" me right now. He's like a stranger... .Irony is, he basically lied about some money he spent on his family in India. He told me different amounts and I saw the bills. I tried to ask him in non confrontational way... .But he flipped and got defensive... .Admitted he lied and threw it all back at me and said me and my crazy family effed him up... .Tried to walk out on me and our son multiple times in a night... .He apologized later and said his "resentment" has prevented him from getting to really know me... .But now stonewalling again.

I am afraid because after he tried to walk out and after he lied I feel like I cannot trust him... .I never thought he could lie... .Or want to walk out... But he did. I feel like he doesn't love me anymore and he's also just giving the move a last shot to see if it helps since it's whst I've always wanted... .

I'm so broken. Too much for me. I want to think the space will be good for us, but ik terrified to tell my parents I'm moving across the country. I'm also terrified that the move may not make a difference in our relationship now because it's too late and damage has been done. I'm petrified of all this... .I never thought my life would be such shambles. I'm only grateful for my amazing 3 year old... .He's my strength. Otherwise would have offed myself way back... .I only want to improve things for him.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi again Miserabledaughter,

To be blunt, because I suspect you can handle it... .

I feel like you keep falling into decision making acts with your emotions.

I think it would be wise to give equal... .or even more weight... .to logically considering the decision making process.

Not to try to "fix" something... .or "restart" the r/s you didn't get. 

You are bringing the same marriage with you where ever you decide to move to. 

Unless you address the underlying marital issues, they are likely to just resurface... .in other forms.  Moving a marriage to another location does not change the marriage... .IMHO.

Moving is a band-aid... .for a deeper issue.

(Not saying moving is or isn't the move to make... idk)

[MiserableDaughter]

Hi Sunflower,

I hear u. To explain more though, I think for me it's just actually having the SPACE for us to heal and repair... .Here, even when we try, again there is some roller coaster my mom pulls me on... .There is a holiday, birthday etc... .Always Somethijg where my husband is retriggered by seeing my mom and is angry all over again. So just want the space and distance to try to heal and want to test my marriage without my mom hovering around. Yes I've tried boundaries etx and they only work to a certain extent with her... .

[Sunfl0wer]

Miserabledaughter,

I guess where I am challenging you is... .

You are the only one who has control of your boundary setting and enforcement of them.  (It is not because of your mom)

In perspective... .

I was often mad at my partner for not setting better boundaries with his ex.

Well... .when his ex was not in the equation... .  this was STILL an issue.

The issue was not that his ex is a boundary breaker, but that he was not committed to OUR r/s enough to protect it.

This issue would resurface... .in different ways. 

The dynamics remain the same.

The players and their faces may change... .but the dynamics remain the same.

Because... .

They were OUR dynamics.

Your mom is not the issue in your r/s. 

Once you accept that you two have created the r/s you currently have... .and are in complete charge of the r/s you have moving forward... .

I think you then will have more progress.  ... .no matter where you are located.

IMHO... again.

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you... You make a point. My mom is not the problem. However, our dynamic has developed majorly due to her... .Bad dynamic. Or so we think... .and that's what I want to test. If she is not around adding stress, will our dynamic improve? If not, I know. I need that info on my marriage...

[lucylou]

 I totally feel your frustration and fears Miserable daughter .  It is like trying to serve two masters you must feel torn in two a great deal of the time. Trying to Look at things from your hubbys point of view might help see where his frustrations and resentment ave built up, although I am guessing you probably know those already thougr. I think it is difficult for any of us to deal with in laws especially when they are hard to like. He probably got defensive when you found out about the money because he may think " why should I have to justify anything i give to MY family when the rest of the time  I am forced to do x y z with yours" Do you think that could be the reason? I am only saying this because my husband reacts in a similar way when he buys thing s for his brothers who he only sees once a year. He gets very defensive about what he has bought and has said "its nothing to what your family get on their birthdays and christmasess".  Just a thought

It guess having BPD moms and Dads can make us mistrust others easily. I know i can mistrust my husband especially when triggered or insecure.



Regarding feeling guilty about taking your son away... .well that is natural and  ofcourse people like us feel guilty and bad when we make decisions about our own happiness or lives because we have been made to feel responsible for others happiness.  I suspect your parents will hone in on your brother and his wife as soon as you have relocated and they will become the new "golden couple" . Just to add my brother left our home town many years ago and moved far away with his wife. I stayed close by and was my mothers best friend for many years. We spent a lot of time together and with her grandchildren. She was divorced from my Dad so I felt sorry for her being lonely. I did everyting to keep her happy. I hated to see her leave our home on the weekends as  I knew she was hurting. Eventually i separated from my partner and became a single mom for about 6 years. Do you know what she did? Well she found herself a man very shortly after i became single and then he became her focus. All this after years of telling me to leave my partner and come live with her. I spent a lot of time alone with no support from her. She lost interest in her grandchildren. It was almost like she was getting her own back on me and saying "hah now you know what it is like to be all alone". My brother lived his life with his wife and became his own man because he got away from them. He now lives in Australia. I still live in the same area. I often talked about going to live by the coast but never did it because i felt guilty and selfish for abandoning my parents. And yet I was abandoned yet again by my mother when i really needed her help... .The moral of this is do what is right for YOU and your son not anyone else and not even your husband

I  am not very good at giving advice and normally dont give it but I read your post and could understand your pain and I just wanted to say I have felt as you have done and have been desperate to make  radical changes just to get some peace. I think sunflower is right that it may or may not make any difference to your relationship and that we can take our problems with us even if we move. I guess it is some of our co dependant issues that keep us in this state of trying to please everyone.  The question is would you regret it if you didnt move ? would you be happy to still live in a  new location if you knew you may be there eventually on your own?

Are you happy to take a risk and accept the outcome either way?

I wish you very good luck in any decision you make. Take your time with it and ultimately do what you feel is right in your heart for your own sanity and peace

[Sunfl0wer]

This is what I am challenging.

Is this true?

My mom is not the problem. However, our dynamic has developed majorly due to her... .Bad dynamic. Or so we think... .and that's what I want to test.

From wiki:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

Individuals with a strong internal locus of control believe events in their life derive primarily from their own actions: for example, when receiving exam results, people with an internal locus of control tend to praise or blame themselves and their abilities. People with a strong external locus of control tend to praise or blame external factors such as the teacher or the exam.[2]

Choosing to assign blame to your mom is a perception.  Another reality exists though... .

You and your H are the only persons in control of your marriage and allowing another person to affect the dynamic of your marriage.

No matter where you are... .

This dynamic, you two created.

You two need to fix.

It probably pops up in other areas as well, however, it may be difficult to see in other areas, as the issues surrounding your mom take center stage.

I suspect, when you are able to eliminate your mom as an influence... .this issue will show it's face in other ways.

Lucylou makes some good points... . Asks some good questions... .

I too wonder... .

Can you live with the decision to move if you knew the r/s falls apart a year from now?  Then where will you be?  Will you be in a deep hole to recover from?  Can you make this move without alienating your mom... .or burning any bridges that you cannot live without?  Will she continue to make calls, thus H getting mad if she is still very involved via phone... .thus both of you being extra mad about it?

How do you anticipate setting boundaries with mom if she guilts you into calling her more frequent? How do you anticipate mom will react?  And how are you prepared to respond differently?

I'm not hoping for a negative outcome for you at all!  

For me... .It helps for me to face the very worse case scenario of the situation and decide what that would likely look like... .that way I feel assured that nothing on my part was overlooked.  If I can handle imagining the outcome at it's worse and face that in my mind... .I feel that I can be prepared to accept any outcome.

I sincerely hope something is helpful... .this is a huge decision... .even if only to bump it in case someone has opportunity to offer another perspective.

[MiserableDaughter]

Thanks. So one thing I'm not sure that it wrote in first post... .When my husband was Trtijg to walk out the only reason I stopped him was the fear of my parents. That they would suck me back into their home so mom could basically take my son. My separation even would become more about my mom than me. They would be grinning with "I told you so!" 

I had this conversation with my brother as well. He had also said, if you and your hisband want to separate "peacefully" and make best decisions for your son, you can't do it living here. You have to be across the country, because mom will make it completely about her and you'll have to deal with her drama.

So in a way, my husband says all his anger is because of my mother. So let's test it. Also, if it doesn't work I don't want to stay in the marriage only because of my mother and the fear of getting sucked back in. Would I be happy far away is separated? I don't know. But i certainly wouldn't be happy here. I don't know what my future holds. We hope to improve out marriage through some space, a fresh start, and couples therapy when out there. Perhaps it wouldn't work. I don't know. But right now my husband is triggered whenever he sees her.

I can deal with phone calls. I speak with her every other day now. And also, we are going to be renting out our home and not selling, so if needed can come back in a few years. the only thing holding me back is my immense guilt. Otherwise ibfeelnlike i don't want to be 50 and have lived the same life in the same place and house forever thinking "what if?" I haven't told my parents yet which is why I'm having sleepless nights.

Yesterday was telling my husband "it will be hard to tell them!" He kind of aggressively says "why?" Just his response and tone were so angry. Even that triggered it. I guess I'm hoping will give us healing space. Sometimes being away from a situation gives you perspective and a more objective viewpoint... .At least that's what I think... .I don't know. Also, yes i do thijk my husband has a scale in his head. "I've suffered with your parents for 15 years. Why can't I spend more on mine?" You are right

[Harri]

Hi MD.  I think I understand some of the feelings you are having here.  Panic, confusion, fear.  I had the same after I decided to move out of my parents home approximately 10-11 years ago after a lifetime of being enmeshed and abused, etc.  I had panic attacks, nightmares, etc before I told them and after.  It took a long time for me to get out of the fog and the emotional numbness after I moved as well.

Given what a long history you have being enmeshed and the additional complications of dealing with your husband and son, I would urge you to seek counseling so you have a good place of support as you proceed with this move.  I think Sunflower asks some really great questions and Lucylou has given you some great input as well. 

Before responding here, I went back and read your very first post and then skimmed through about 20 pages of posts in your history to get a better feel for your situation.  In almost every post you mention wanting to move far far away and here you are getting exactly what you have wanted and there is fear and doubt (FOG like you said).  I get it.  I really do.  As I said above, I went through similar and even tried to move out twice and decided not to move.  I would hate to see you not move due to FOG (or as I look at it, still being in the grip of your mother's disorder) but I would also hate to see you move and just have the problems move along with you.  I think the chances of the latter happening are pretty high and I want you to be prepared for dealing with it. 

One thing I will say about your husband is that he has a part in this whole thing too.  You both do, not just your mother.  Taking her out of the equation should, I think, make things a bit easier, but it is not a cure all.  I wish it were.

One more thing about your husband's response when this exchange happened:

Yesterday was telling my husband "it will be hard to tell them!" He kind of aggressively says "why?" Just his response and tone were so angry. Even that triggered it.

Take this for what it is worth (not much to be honest   ) but when i put myself in his shoes and think about all the years you said you wanted to move, if I heard this, I think I would have said something similar (probably much worse to be honest).  I am not saying that to get down on you or to defend him.  I'm not saying he is right in the tone he used either.  There is over a decade of hurt and anger and feelings of betrayal (I assume) that will have to be worked through. 

Do you know where you will be moving to?  Is there any way you can arrange a support network, like a therapist, that will be available to you immediately after your move?

MD, I wish you the very best and I want nothing more than to see you happy and healthy.  If what I said does not fit for you, please disregard. 

[MiserableDaughter]

Yes... .We are moving from Boston to San Francisco... .I guess I've always wanted to get out and "live a little... ." Try new things etc... .I've always been living close to my parents. My main struggle has been that my husband wants as little contact as possible with my parents, and they keep pulling and giving examples of kids that come see their parents every Sunday and grandkids who are always spending the night at the grandparents etc. I push him to do the minimal and when I do, I'm always paranoid he will get pissed or my mom will be offended by something and I won't hear the end of it.

I'm so tired of dealing with those interactions. If I just tell my parents that those things can't happen, they will freak and cause even more drama and rage. If I tell my husband to chill out, he gets pissrd and said after all the damage I'm taking their side. He's like they've treated you like "Sh-t" and you are still worried about them!

Essentially I'm walking on eggshells around most. My husband was never such an angry bitter individual. Years of stress we've had has made him this way to a large extent. He also blames his heart attack on years of stress due to my mom.

I'm just tired of playing referee. I'm exhausted and numb and kind of dead inside. I'm not living to my full potential... .Who I could truly be without so much Bs. I'm a smart, educated, funny, attractive 36 year old. All of that gets buried. I'm a very educated attorney. I ironically was a stand up comic... .And a producer of a comedy show for a few years. But I always felt like I set up distractions for myself so I could avoid dealing with my mother and my husband.

I wanna live. I've been in therapy for about 10 years. I've gone through PTSD... .Depression etc. I guess I just don't know a solution. To me the biggest problems are my mom and my husband. My priority is my own family (husband and kid) so I want to try to rescue that relationship... .And right now the only way I can think of doing that is not having my mom around all the time... .Causing some drama in the back and pulling me in to see her... .Don't know if right or wrong... .

[GaGrl]

Is it possible that, by playing referee and interjecting yourself between your husband and your parents, you have interfer do with your husband setting and enforcing his o n values and boundaries and values with your parents s? I ask b cause the best things by my favorite her did was enforce boundaries for my mother's BPD stepmother.

[MiserableDaughter]

I don't know... .I think whenever he has said something I get to deal with the consequences from both... .My mother and my husband. My mother rages. Dad supports her. When I try to fight back I'm pushed down by the parents and mom causes months of drama. My husband getts pissed if I get freaked.

Frankly neither are easy to deal with... .My biggest issue has been my mom keeps pulling... .After my son especially. Now she wants sleepovers with my son. I'm very uncomfortable with that because her behavior with him is very possessive and brainwashing... .Like she did with me as a kid. So when I say no, I get just constant pulling. She won't back off. She'll pull more and more... .she won't back off.  Then ultimately affects my mood, and my husband sees this and instead of supporting me says " tell her off or let me tell her off! Why do we have any contact with her ? Blah blah" so I can't even talk to my husband about it. This just leaves me trapped... .Stuck in between with nowhere to go except to a therapist and crying alone at night.

The only solution in my mind was "I need to get out of here. I need to clear my head. I can't deal with both forever... .I will end up in an asylum." Right now it's the FOG that is coming out of me. Last week I would have been thrilled. Now that it's real I'm afraid. It's crazy how when it comes to leaving I suddenly forgot the damage she's done.  Then it's all guilt... .

[Harri]

Hi again.  MD, it is not surprising or crazy that you are scared.  It is to be expected.  By moving, you will be doing something outside of your normal role which has been to resist and eventually capitulate after spending a lot of time and energy trying to keep your mother and your husband from freaking out.  Of course you are going to feel scared and uncomfortable.  Do what you need to do anyway and let the feelings come.

Any time we change our typical role or behavior, there will be upset, rages, dysregulation, etc.  She will pull out all the stops and her manipulative ways will increase.  It may take several months and possibly years of you setting and sticking to firm boundaries with her to see any kind of improvement and I mean improvement at *your* end.  Boundaries are about us and our behavior.  Sometimes we will see a change in the other persons behaviors once we stop doing the same things we have always done, but that is not a given.

You are going to feel scared and guilty and confused... .change your behaviors anyway.  What you have tried for so long is not working.  Your mother and husband still get angry.  Your mother still emotionally tortures your son with her manipulative games.  Change it up MD.  Whether you move or not, what you have been doing so far is not working and in fact may just be feeding the drama.

As for your mother pulling and manipulating and brainwashing your son... .get good and angry.  She is abusing your son MD.  So what if she gets upset!  So what if she dysregulates!  She is abusing your son!  You are not required to be polite in such a situation.  Let her pull all she wants.  Remove yourself and your son from her presence.  What she is doing to your child is not acceptable.  There is no nice, polite way to tell her to stop, and there is no way to tell her to stop manipulating without her getting upset.  There is no way to get her to understand.  She is not capable of seeing outside of her own self and her own needs.  So stop expecting her to do things she is not capable of doing.

I do not mean to be harsh with you, but this is harsh.  Your situation is dire and you are at a critical point.  Regardless of whether you move or not.  If you can't make the changes for your self, then do it for your son.  This goes beyond your happiness.  This is about your sons emotional health.   

[GaGrl]

 So what I was meaning to say is, when your husband says, "Tell your parents off, or I will do it,"... .have you ever just let him handle it with them? Are you trying to control all participants in this drama? That can't be done.

Your husband has a very significant and vested interest in what goes on with your parents' treatment of your son. The child is HIS son also. You may want to consider letting your husband set the tone and enforce his own boundaries with your parents for a period of time. You might be surprised at your mother's reaction to your husband telling her what the rules are in your house regarding his son.

[MiserableDaughter]

You are all right in that I have never firmly been able to set boundaries. I've tried. Trust me... .I have. I confront to some extent... .But the rages and guilt start and it triggers panic in me of all those old horrible crazed rages. I feel like I can't handle those anymore with the rest of my life's problems.

I told my therapist recently that if I had to walk into a burning building or to my raging mom id choose the burning building because that's only physical death! I mean I was diagnosed with MS and if didn't minimally shake me emotionally. What I thought was "haha. Mom made up illnesses for so long and HA, I'm the one who got a real doozie." And that diagnosis was nothing compared to the hurt and trauma id experienced. How messed up is that?

And it's all shaped me into this individual whose just trying to keep my head above water. And I feel like I'll drown many many times. Maybe I just want a break... .I don't know. Yes, my mother messes with my son. For her it's normal asking a 3 year old "do you love me? Are you SURE u love me?" For me it's bizarre... .And frightening... .But if I say Somethijg she won't get it at all. For her it's NORMAL!

[MiserableDaughter]

Oh my husband has tried boundary setting to some extent and it turned into my parents raging at me for the longest time!

[Sunfl0wer]

I hope you find peace MD.  I hear so much internal struggle, this must feel like you are being torn up on the inside.

Well... .

Whatever you do decide...

Stay

Leave

Something else

I think the only thing we can do sometimes to find peace with our interactions with others is:

Expect nothing from everyone.



Think on this if you will ... .it has helped free me of many frustrations!

Do not expect your mom to tone down the drama

Do not expect you H to feel he owes you something for "sticking up for him."

Do not expect your son will be protected from difficult people in his life

Do not expect that you deserve any kind of reward or accommodations from your H or anyone else for any decisions or experiences you have.

Moving is hard stuff... .

Being left to ourself... .

Hard stuff too!

I think releasing ourselves from expectations of others can be very freeing in having control of our own peace... .anywhere we may be... .We are still left in our own minds.

[disillusionedandsore]

The real victim here is your son.  It is your job as his parent to protect him from anything that is not in his best interests.  I know I couldn't protect my son adequately until I learned to truly stand up for myself first. In all relationships.  My boundaries are about what I will and will not tolerate,  from anyone,  spouse,  parent,  friend etc We teach people how to treat us... .

It sounds like you are accepting a whole load of lashing out from the people around you,  what kind of example are you setting for your son? That is within your power to change... .You can change your behaviour and adapt a zero tolerance approach to solving other people's problems!  Actions speak louder than words and No is a complete sentence.  Also your husband's anger is his problem to deal with. Must be difficult for your child that atmosphere

[GaGrl]

What specific techniques have you used in attempting to enforce boundaries with your parents? Techniques that have worked with others on this forum could be a good place to start in becoming proactive about your situation and relationship - you sound reactive.

For example, when you hear your mother saying inappropriate things to your son, you've told her not to say those things. When she repeats them, do you simply get up and leave? As mentioned, actions speak louder than words. If she blows up your phone, do you turn it off or block her number? Rather than becoming anxious about telling your parents that you are moving, are you sitting down and carefully scripting a strong and self-confident message that states your values?

[Sunfl0wer]

What specific techniques have you used in attempting to enforce boundaries with your parents? Techniques that have worked with others on this forum could be a good place to start in becoming proactive about your situation and relationship - you sound reactive.

For example, when you hear your mother saying inappropriate things to your son, you've told her not to say those things. When she repeats them, do you simply get up and leave? As mentioned, actions speak louder than words. If she blows up your phone, do you turn it off or block her number? Rather than becoming anxious about telling your parents that you are moving, are you sitting down and carefully scripting a strong and self-confident message that states your values?

Excellent questions Gagrl!

[MiserableDaughter]

What have I done to draw boundaries? This may sound weak, but the biggest thing I've done is to limit the time my son spends with my mom. Despite her constant pulling for weekly interaction and sleepovers etc., I have limited it to once every 2-3 weeks for a few hours... .Also, I've told her she competes with me and she should not and the specific examples of how she does it. This resulted in many rages etc... But I stuck with it. Also despite her guilt and pull for weekend time with son and us, I've kept my husband only interacting on special occasions. I also only speak with her every other day to every two days considering earlier was every day or more... .I've told her no more toys and have packed away the giant boxes she have for his birthday and said I'll open them slowly. I suppose that's some of the things...

It may seem weak to some but it's a long way for me. Truth is, I'm still very scared of her rages etc... .One thing I've realized is that I've always felt "unsettled" due to her. I've never been able to feel safe in my own life, own home, marriage etc because she can shake my core in an instant depending on whether she is on a high or low of her roller coaster. My older brother is same but worse... .Wonder how he and wife will handle it? She can leave me shaken, crying, feeling like I want to kill myself... .That's her impact.

That's what I'm saying... .Despite all that I feel guilty for leaving! How crazy is that? I  thinking of how I will tell her my decision in a mature strong way and not weak way... .Quite frankly I have turned into a mess I a person where even I don't know where to start... .

[MiserableDaughter]

Oh and the problem is when she is decent for a few days or weeks I start questioning whether maybe I just overreacted! That's where my guilt kicks in... .These days she is nice and normal to some extent because very excited about my brothers wedding, so I'm feeling guilty now for moving across the country with her grandson! I'm so mad at myself for feeling guilt over this... .

[Sunfl0wer]

What have I done to draw boundaries? This may sound weak, but the biggest thing I've done is to limit the time my son spends with my mom.

This is a good start.   

When I see others around here talk others through the process of boundaries, it usually starts with identifying some core values.  Can you determine an underlying value that you are protecting by limiting time your son has with your mom?

Despite her constant pulling for weekly interaction and sleepovers etc., I have limited it to once every 2-3 weeks for a few hours... .Also, I've told her she competes with me and she should not and the specific examples of how she does it. This resulted in many rages etc... But I stuck with it.

I’m not surprised she raged when you gave her examples of things she should not do.  Telling her when she is behaving poorly is not a boundary.  In fact, boundaries do not serve the purpose of trying to get another to see their flaws to change.

Your mom is a grown up... .she is done being a parent.  Do not enlist yourself in the role of her punitive parent. This is likely to get her to respond as a rebellious child.  Don't parent your parent!

That is the beauty of boundaries…

They are not dependent on another person to work for you.   

This could be why you are struggling so much.  Are you expecting to set a boundary and it to make the people around you change their interactions?

When you are telling your mom examples of what she should do…what is the need and value that you are trying to protect?  If you can identify this, then you can then move to deciding on a boundary to enforce.

Also despite her guilt and pull for weekend time with son and us, I've kept my husband only interacting on special occasions.

I am confused?  What do you mean: “I’ve kept my husband…?”

No wonder you are feeling so frustrated!

My goodness dear!

You cannot take responsibility for everyone’s behavior!  What a burden you put on yourself!

There is relief to this... .  Life is so much less stressful when you realize you only need to manage your own life.  Wow... .things will be so much easier if you can go easier on yourself and let go of all this responsibility you have designated yourself for.

I also only speak with her every other day to every two days considering earlier was every day or more... .

I've told her no more toys and have packed away the giant boxes she have for his birthday and said I'll open them slowly. I suppose that's some of the things...

It may seem weak to some but it's a long way for me.

MD, I mean this compassionately... .

You are basically running everyone's life except your own.  You are responsible for everyone's feelings, behavior, experience, except your own.

Based all that you shared…

(By the way... .I give you credit for sticking with this all)

I think there is good news... .

There is much you can do to improve boundary setting!

I don’t feel that it is simply an issue of “weak” boundaries, but rather an avoidance of them and possibly a misunderstanding about the function and purpose of them.

Changing your understanding about boundaries, what they do, how to do it….

Can actually really, really help you in so many ways!

It may be uncomfortable at first, however, once you get the hang of it…it gets easier.

Ok MD... .

So answer all the above questions if you can... .if you like... .

However, I have one 4 last question:

If you stopped trying to manage everyone else's life... . 

If you were left only with your own life to manage... .

What would you do with it?  What would it look like?  Can you spend several minutes picturing your life with you only being in charge of you?  Does it feel wonderful? scarey? beautiful? uncertain?

[MiserableDaughter]

So good questions you ask... .The values by limiting exposure... .I don't want my son to think that his grandmother staying or leaving depends on whether he hugs or not. I don't want him to think he can get whatever he wants... .I don't want him smothered and not put down. And it want him to know that mom is mom... Not grandmas I don't want her whispering "don't you want to come go grandma house?" In his ear all the time.

If I was only taking care of me? Oh I don't knkw what that looks like cause I've never done it. What will mom think? What will hubby think? Who is offended? If it was just me... .Which almost happened when my husband tried to walk out ... I visualized taking my son far away and having our own peaceful space where we celebrated every holiday to the max! Just him and me. No mom. And didn't have to worry what anyone thought or if someone was offended. We'd go on trips... .Breathe. Let the wind blow... Anytging would be possible. Anything. The world would be an oyster with no abnormal stress, just normal. We would relish the little things in life. My mind wouldn't always be occupied by "what will mom think of that?" I wouldn't panic when the phone rang... .