Definition of "Mental Illness"

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Taken from American Heritage Dictionary

MENTAL ILLNESS: Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.

I had to look it up because part of my denial has been reluctance to use the label Mental Illness. 

Not only did she deny that she had a problem, so didn't I!

[joeramabeme]

Taken from American Heritage Dictionary

MENTAL ILLNESS: Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.

I had to look it up because part of my denial has been reluctance to use the label Mental Illness. 

Not only did she deny that she had a problem, so didn't I!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hmmm.  I've fit that definition before, amazing how far out stress, booze and caffeine can take you.  Yikes!

I'm assuming you mean you're reluctant to accept that you think your ex has a mental illness joe?  Is it the words and their connotation?  Would personality disorder be better?  What would it mean if she is mentally ill?

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm not satisfied with that definition.  Too vague.  Too all encompassing.  Seems like stroke, TBI, MS, meningitis... .and many more fit in that definition... .however, I do not think that is the intention.

[HappyNihilist]

I agree with Sunfl0wer and fromheeltoheal - that's a broad and technical definition. Technically, anything that impairs cognitive, emotional, and/or behavioral function for a period of time is a mental illness. And illnesses are not inherently long-lasting or terminal. Post-concussive syndrome is a mental illness, technically. It's more helpful for me to think in terms of "disorder," which is a pattern of impaired function.

Beyond the semantics, I think these are important questions.

I'm assuming you mean you're reluctant to accept that you think your ex has a mental illness joe?  Is it the words and their connotation?  Would personality disorder be better?  What would it mean if she is mentally ill?

You mention your denial. Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

[apollotech]

If she has BPD, was she not emotionally impaired from a very young age? Has that impairment not affected her her entire life? Can the affliction be reversed, her being reverted back to "normal" or is it permanent?

It's a mental illness. "Personality" only refers to what's affected. ":)isorder" is used to soften/lessen the social stigma of the "mental illness" label (ethnic cleansing sounds better than genocide).

Regardless of how you want to label it/think about it, was it healthy? Did it promote a healthy relationship with healthy interactions?

[HappyNihilist]

It's a mental illness. "Personality" only refers to what's affected. ":)isorder" is used to soften/lessen the social stigma of the "mental illness" label (ethnic cleansing sounds better than genocide).

Disorder isn't a "softening" word used to alleviate social stigma. It's a medical term that is used to describe a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state, or a disruption of or interference with normal functions or established systems. People have sleep disorders, learning disorders, pain disorders, sexual disorders, speech disorders, immune disorders, etc., as well as mood disorders, personality disorders, and other mental/cognitive disorders.

Technically, mental illness is a broad definition. It can be short-term and/or environmentally caused (TBI, reaction to medication, stroke, etc.). Of course it also includes mental disorders, which are long-term patterns of dysfunctional behaviors/emotions/etc. I make this point because it can help in reading medical and psychological articles, and understanding why they use the terms they use.

Non-technically, the term "mentally ill" has certain connotations in our society. It's like something you say in hushed, sad tones to a neighbor when talking about the man who lives down the street - "He's mentally ill, you know." Headlines about mass killings proclaim that the perpetrator "suffered from mental illness" as opposed to, say, "had depression" or "was treated for psychosis" or whatever.

Regardless of the definitions, however, it's certainly understandable that someone would want to believe that their partner and relationship aren't dysfunctional. We want happiness and love, and it's a very human thing to put on "blinders" and convince ourselves that there isn't a problem - or at least, there isn't a problem that we can't fix. Accepting that a loved one has a disorder that exists regardless of us - realizing the truth of what that entails for the relationship (whether staying or leaving) - it's a humbling and sorrowful experience.

joeramabeme, where do you think you want to go from here? Now that you're no longer in denial, what feelings are you having?

[joeramabeme]

It's a mental illness. "Personality" only refers to what's affected. ":)isorder" is used to soften/lessen the social stigma of the "mental illness" label (ethnic cleansing sounds better than genocide).

Disorder isn't a "softening" word used to alleviate social stigma. It's a medical term that is used to describe a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state, or a disruption of or interference with normal functions or established systems. People have sleep disorders, learning disorders, pain disorders, sexual disorders, speech disorders, immune disorders, etc., as well as mood disorders, personality disorders, and other mental/cognitive disorders.

Technically, mental illness is a broad definition. It can be short-term and/or environmentally caused (TBI, reaction to medication, stroke, etc.). Of course it also includes mental disorders, which are long-term patterns of dysfunctional behaviors/emotions/etc. I make this point because it can help in reading medical and psychological articles, and understanding why they use the terms they use.

Non-technically, the term "mentally ill" has certain connotations in our society. It's like something you say in hushed, sad tones to a neighbor when talking about the man who lives down the street - "He's mentally ill, you know." Headlines about mass killings proclaim that the perpetrator "suffered from mental illness" as opposed to, say, "had depression" or "was treated for psychosis" or whatever.

Regardless of the definitions, however, it's certainly understandable that someone would want to believe that their partner and relationship aren't dysfunctional. We want happiness and love, and it's a very human thing to put on "blinders" and convince ourselves that there isn't a problem - or at least, there isn't a problem that we can't fix. Accepting that a loved one has a disorder that exists regardless of us - realizing the truth of what that entails for the relationship (whether staying or leaving) - it's a humbling and sorrowful experience.

joeramabeme, where do you think you want to go from here? Now that you're no longer in denial, what feelings are you having?

HappyNihilist

Thanks for your clarifications, you hit the sweet spot of my intended meaning.

I am very sad at the moment.  I spent 2 hours last night drafting a reply to your first response about denial that I may post at some point but think it belongs on self awareness board.  The light of awareness is painful to those of who live in the dark sheltered with our pain.

In summary, I am coming to the acceptance/understanding that this condition/illness/disorder has been impacting me all my life from early childhood and some serious abuse I suffered.  It is like a never ending patterned nightmare of wanting to be loved and choosing all the wrong partners or being born into a life that is insurmountable.  Think of the Matrix where all emotional thoughts are just part of a program - they do not exist.  Just when I think all my efforts have paid off I am again left in a pool of pitiful tears.  

I JUST WANTED TO RAISE MY OWN FAMILY - TO LOVE AND BE LOVED.  I feel so damaged.  

As a boy & adult I did not want to betray my Mother's love, even if abusive, and now I am onto betraying my wife's love by calling her mentally ill.  She is (or is it me) but I felt safer feeling I could earn her love.  I could not nor did not and am once again deeply empty and feel so bleeping irreparably damaged with nothing more than an undiagnosed condition that she would say is more my fault than hers.

I hate all this!  This is my Sisyphus styled burden, and I am not even Greek!

[jhkbuzz]

It's a mental illness. "Personality" only refers to what's affected. ":)isorder" is used to soften/lessen the social stigma of the "mental illness" label (ethnic cleansing sounds better than genocide).

Disorder isn't a "softening" word used to alleviate social stigma. It's a medical term that is used to describe a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state, or a disruption of or interference with normal functions or established systems. People have sleep disorders, learning disorders, pain disorders, sexual disorders, speech disorders, immune disorders, etc., as well as mood disorders, personality disorders, and other mental/cognitive disorders.

Technically, mental illness is a broad definition. It can be short-term and/or environmentally caused (TBI, reaction to medication, stroke, etc.). Of course it also includes mental disorders, which are long-term patterns of dysfunctional behaviors/emotions/etc. I make this point because it can help in reading medical and psychological articles, and understanding why they use the terms they use.

Non-technically, the term "mentally ill" has certain connotations in our society. It's like something you say in hushed, sad tones to a neighbor when talking about the man who lives down the street - "He's mentally ill, you know." Headlines about mass killings proclaim that the perpetrator "suffered from mental illness" as opposed to, say, "had depression" or "was treated for psychosis" or whatever.

Regardless of the definitions, however, it's certainly understandable that someone would want to believe that their partner and relationship aren't dysfunctional. We want happiness and love, and it's a very human thing to put on "blinders" and convince ourselves that there isn't a problem - or at least, there isn't a problem that we can't fix. Accepting that a loved one has a disorder that exists regardless of us - realizing the truth of what that entails for the relationship (whether staying or leaving) - it's a humbling and sorrowful experience.

joeramabeme, where do you think you want to go from here? Now that you're no longer in denial, what feelings are you having?

HappyNihilist

Thanks for your clarifications, you hit the sweet spot of my intended meaning.

I am very sad at the moment.  I spent 2 hours last night drafting a reply to your first response about denial that I may post at some point but think it belongs on self awareness board.  The light of awareness is painful to those of who live in the dark sheltered with our pain.

In summary, I am coming to the acceptance/understanding that this condition/illness/disorder has been impacting me all my life from early childhood and some serious abuse I suffered.  It is like a never ending patterned nightmare of wanting to be loved and choosing all the wrong partners or being born into a life that is insurmountable.  Think of the Matrix where all emotional thoughts are just part of a program - they do not exist.  Just when I think all my efforts have paid off I am again left in a pool of pitiful tears.   

I JUST WANTED TO RAISE MY OWN FAMILY - TO LOVE AND BE LOVED.  I feel so damaged. 

As a boy & adult I did not want to betray my Mother's love, even if abusive, and now I am onto betraying my wife's love by calling her mentally ill.  She is (or is it me) but I felt safer feeling I could earn her love.  I could not nor did not and am once again deeply empty and feel soing irreparably damaged with nothing more than an undiagnosed condition that she would say is more my fault than hers.

I hate all this!

  These feelings are really painful, Joe - but it's really important to feel them.

It tooks me MONTHS to get where you're at already - digging into your childhood and into the residual childhood "stuff" that may have led you to a r/s with a disordered partner. It's important to identify why you chose a disordered partner - really, clearly identify it - because the first step in healing is "naming" what needs to be healed within you.

Are you seeing a T?

[Blimblam]

that definition implies their is a sort of normal. Normal implies a specific social order one must abide by.  I don't think normal really exists. So mental health and disorder is in relation to the status quo, which frankly is pretty messed up if we take a big step back and look at it. There was a specific dynamic involved in these relationships that obviously caused us to suffer. We all have needs and we use different strategies to get them met. If you don't like labeling her then don't and rather focus on the relational dynamics themselves.

[BorisAcusio]

that definition implies their is a sort of normal. Normal implies a specific social order one must abide by.  I don't think normal really exists.

I don't think that relativism is the answer. Bodily organs have a natural order of functioning built into their very 'construction'.

[Mutt]

Hi joe,

Just when I think all my efforts have paid off I am again left in a pool of pitiful tears.  

I'm sorry to hear about what your mom put you through. That's sad to hear that you're left in a pool of pitiful tears when you put your efforts in and it doesn't pay off. I can relate.

Do you feel like you try doing the same thing over and over wanting it to work?

[HappyNihilist]

  joeramabeme, I know it's painful. Awareness and acceptance are not easy. Often, when the light shines down upon us, it illuminates the parts we've been keeping hidden in dark corners for years and years.

You've already made so much progress in your self-discovery. You're already digging into your family of origin (FOO) wounds and identifying your patterns in relationships.   It's hard and it hurts, but it is more than worth it. This is something you're doing for Your Self, and it is the path to a happy, authentic life.

In summary, I am coming to the acceptance/understanding that this condition/illness/disorder has been impacting me all my life from early childhood and some serious abuse I suffered.  It is like a never ending patterned nightmare of wanting to be loved and choosing all the wrong partners or being born into a life that is insurmountable.  Think of the Matrix where all emotional thoughts are just part of a program - they do not exist.

 

This is a huge, important revelation. The patterns that we learn in childhood will keep playing out in our other relationships until we address them. Often, it takes a disordered relationship like this to fully reveal those patterns to ourselves.

Just when I think all my efforts have paid off I am again left in a pool of pitiful tears. I JUST WANTED TO RAISE MY OWN FAMILY - TO LOVE AND BE LOVED.  I feel so damaged.  

It's the most human thing in the world, to want to love and be loved. It's devastating to be left feeling alone and helpless to do anything.

Events like this can make us start to believe we're damaged, that there's something so wrong with us that we'll never achieve happiness or find love. This isn't true at all, of course. You have it within you to be happy.

As for feeling "damaged," well... .there are none of us perfect in this world. I personally find inspiration in a Japanese art form called Kintsugi, fixing broken pottery with lacquer resin mixed with precious metals. It's based on a philosophy that "treats breakage and repair as part of the history of an object, rather than something to disguise." The philosophy is extended to humans, as well. People should embrace their "brokenness" - and then repair and sublimate it to create the beautiful work of art of themselves.

As a boy & adult I did not want to betray my Mother's love, even if abusive, and now I am onto betraying my wife's love by calling her mentally ill.  She is (or is it me) but I felt safer feeling I could earn her love.  I could not nor did not and am once again deeply empty and feel so bleeping irreparably damaged with nothing more than an undiagnosed condition that she would say is more my fault than hers.

Those feelings of betrayal make me think you're the type to take on unrealistic levels of responsibility, and therefore feel a lot of guilt. (I say this become I'm that type, and I recognize the signs.)

This is not your fault, and you can't control it. In fact, the only two things in this whole wide world that you can control are your thoughts and your behavior.

You are not betraying anyone's love by accepting that she is dysfunctional and/or disordered. It is the reality of the situation, and not something within your control. You love her and don't want to hurt her. That's commendable. Don't let yourself turn your love and kindness into something to feel guilty about.

I hate all this!  This is my Sisyphus styled burden, and I am not even Greek!

Speaking of Sisyphus... .I've always found Albert Camus's "The Myth of Sisyphus" very inspirational. I've included an excerpt below. Reframing how we look at things makes a world of difference.

The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor. [... .]

If the descent is thus sometimes performed in sorrow, it can also take place in joy. This word is not too much. Again I fancy Sisyphus returning toward his rock, and the sorrow was in the beginning. When the images of earth cling too tightly to memory, when the call of happiness becomes too insistent, it happens that melancholy arises in man's heart: this is the rock's victory, this is the rock itself. The boundless grief is too heavy to bear. These are our nights of Gethsemane. But crushing truths perish from being acknowledged. [... .]

All Sisyphus' silent joy is contained therein. His fate belongs to him. His rock is a thing. [... .]

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

You're doing great work here.  

[Blimblam]

Those feelings of betrayal make me think you're the type to take on unrealistic levels of responsibility, and therefore feel a lot of guilt. (I say this become I'm that type, and I recognize the signs.)

This is not your fault, and you can't control it. In fact, the only two things in this whole wide world that you can control are your thoughts and your behavior.

happy nihilist,

Do you think maybe your becoming someone who is taking on unrealalistic levels of responsibility by always controlling your thoughts?

[HappyNihilist]

happy nihilist,

Do you think maybe your becoming someone who is taking on unrealalistic levels of responsibility by always controlling your thoughts?

Blimblam, that's a good point. I don't mean that we can control our emotions or our initial thoughts. What I mean is more like, how we think about our thoughts.

For instance, when I'm having a bad hair day and the first thing that pops into my head when I look in the mirror is "I'm ugly," I can either accept that thought as truth or not. I can choose to explore it and see where's it coming from.

[Blimblam]

happy nihilist,

Do you think maybe your becoming someone who is taking on unrealalistic levels of responsibility by always controlling your thoughts?

Blimblam, that's a good point. I don't mean that we can control our emotions or our initial thoughts. What I mean is more like, how we think about our thoughts.

For instance, when I'm having a bad hair day and the first thing that pops into my head when I look in the mirror is "I'm ugly," I can either accept that thought as truth or not. I can choose to explore it and see where's it coming from.

sorry to threadjack... .

but do you feel guilty for having the initial emotions and thoughts?

[HappyNihilist]

sorry to threadjack... .

but do you feel guilty for having the initial emotions and thoughts?

Sometimes I do - less now, over the years, than I used to. Guilt is persistent, though futile. Anxiety and suffering over things we can't do anything about. But it's so deeply ingrained and then reinforced by society, it can be difficult to shed. It's hard to rethink and reframe a lifetime of conditioning, upset the status quo.

[joeramabeme]

It tooks me MONTHS to get where you're at already - digging into your childhood and into the residual childhood "stuff" that may have led you to a r/s with a disordered partner. It's important to identify why you chose a disordered partner - really, clearly identify it - because the first step in healing is "naming" what needs to be healed within you.

Are you seeing a T?

Thanks JHKBuzz.

I am somewhat embarrassed to say that I have been in T most of my adult life.  I am still finding it somewhat shocking how little T's know about the impacts of BPD and the relational turmoil. 

I have finally got to enough understanding of the material to go back and confront my Marital T with her handling of our sessions.  She told my wife that she was having "relentless hope" when it came to not seeing any changes in us.  Can you imagine what a Blaming - Projecting BP can do with that kind of therapist-validated comment to a spouse? 

Even now, the T's comment pisses me off.  I was in her office last week trying to educate her but she claims to be knowledgeable about BPD and was just trying to point out to my wife that nothing was changing.  NO SH!T!  What do you think BPD is?

Arrgg, too late to get started.

Thanks

[joeramabeme]

It's the most human thing in the world, to want to love and be loved. It's devastating to be left feeling alone and helpless to do anything.

Events like this can make us start to believe we're damaged, that there's something so wrong with us that we'll never achieve happiness or find love. This isn't true at all, of course. You have it within you to be happy.

As for feeling "damaged," well... .there are none of us perfect in this world. I personally find inspiration in a Japanese art form called Kintsugi, fixing broken pottery with lacquer resin mixed with precious metals. It's based on a philosophy that "treats breakage and repair as part of the history of an object, rather than something to disguise." The philosophy is extended to humans, as well. People should embrace their "brokenness" - and then repair and sublimate it to create the beautiful work of art of themselves.

You're doing great work here.  

Happy, you are very interesting.  I love all the stuff you put out here, so much to digest.  I will look into Kintsugi, it sounds like it is an appropriate comparison.

You say that I have it within me to be happy.  Can you say more?

I have been happier as the years have gone by, but the fractures . . . Like the Velveteen Rabbit, I just want to be like the other bunnies.  Guess I am still learning to love my differences without feeling isolated and apart and would just want to experience the life that I believe God wanted me to live but seems to be out of my reach.

Joe

[Blimblam]

sorry to threadjack... .

but do you feel guilty for having the initial emotions and thoughts?

Sometimes I do - less now, over the years, than I used to. Guilt is persistent, though futile. Anxiety and suffering over things we can't do anything about. But it's so deeply ingrained and then reinforced by society, it can be difficult to shed. It's hard to rethink and reframe a lifetime of conditioning, upset the status quo.

Do you feel guilty because its so deeply ingrained and then reinforced by society that its futile to do something about the source of your anxiety and suffering because that might possibly upset the status quo?

[jhkbuzz]

It tooks me MONTHS to get where you're at already - digging into your childhood and into the residual childhood "stuff" that may have led you to a r/s with a disordered partner. It's important to identify why you chose a disordered partner - really, clearly identify it - because the first step in healing is "naming" what needs to be healed within you.

Are you seeing a T?

Thanks JHKBuzz.

I am somewhat embarrassed to say that I have been in T most of my adult life.  I am still finding it somewhat shocking how little T's know about the impacts of BPD and the relational turmoil. 

I have finally got to enough understanding of the material to go back and confront my Marital T with her handling of our sessions.  She told my wife that she was having "relentless hope" when it came to not seeing any changes in us.  Can you imagine what a Blaming - Projecting BP can do with that kind of therapist-validated comment to a spouse? 

Even now, the T's comment pisses me off.  I was in her office last week trying to educate her but she claims to be knowledgeable about BPD and was just trying to point out to my wife that nothing was changing.  NO SH!T!  What do you think BPD is?

Arrgg, too late to get started.

Thanks

I chose an EMDR therapist (one who specializes in trauma) and she is very knowledgeable about BPD, DID, etc. In fact, it was she who pointed out to me that my ex was probably on the dissociative spectrum (something I already knew) but that it was only one of her 'parts of self' that had BPD. I would have NEVER figured that out on my own, but as soon as she said it all sorts of things began to click into place for me and I stopped trying to "figure out my ex."  I finally had a coherent understanding of how she was disordered and why she acted out in our r/s as a result. My therapist's knowledge and her validation of my experience with my ex was invaluable in gaining that understanding.

So now my focus is on myself - why I entered into the r/s, why I stayed, how my FOO experiences played into my participation in what turned out to be a very dysfunctional r/s. It took me a year to get to this place, but I'm very happy to be here, because this is what I have the power to heal, to change. Not my ex. Me.

Not all therapists are the same... .if I had landed with a therapist who had no experience in dealing with BPD, DID, etc., I doubt I would be as far as I am right now. You may want to consider if your therapist is the best "fit" for your situation and experiences.

[joeramabeme]

It tooks me MONTHS to get where you're at already - digging into your childhood and into the residual childhood "stuff" that may have led you to a r/s with a disordered partner. It's important to identify why you chose a disordered partner - really, clearly identify it - because the first step in healing is "naming" what needs to be healed within you.

Are you seeing a T?

Thanks JHKBuzz.

I am somewhat embarrassed to say that I have been in T most of my adult life.  I am still finding it somewhat shocking how little T's know about the impacts of BPD and the relational turmoil. 

I have finally got to enough understanding of the material to go back and confront my Marital T with her handling of our sessions.  She told my wife that she was having "relentless hope" when it came to not seeing any changes in us.  Can you imagine what a Blaming - Projecting BP can do with that kind of therapist-validated comment to a spouse? 

Even now, the T's comment pisses me off.  I was in her office last week trying to educate her but she claims to be knowledgeable about BPD and was just trying to point out to my wife that nothing was changing.  NO SH!T!  What do you think BPD is?

Arrgg, too late to get started.

Thanks

I chose an EMDR therapist (one who specializes in trauma) and she is very knowledgeable about BPD, DID, etc. In fact, it was she who pointed out to me that my ex was probably on the dissociative spectrum (something I already knew) but that it was only one of her 'parts of self' that had BPD. I would have NEVER figured that out on my own, but as soon as she said it all sorts of things began to click into place for me and I stopped trying to "figure out my ex."  I finally had a coherent understanding of how she was disordered and why she acted out in our r/s as a result. My therapist's knowledge and her validation of my experience with my ex was invaluable in gaining that understanding.

So now my focus is on myself - why I entered into the r/s, why I stayed, how my FOO experiences played into my participation in what turned out to be a very dysfunctional r/s. It took me a year to get to this place, but I'm very happy to be here, because this is what I have the power to heal, to change. Not my ex. Me.

Not all therapists are the same... .if I had landed with a therapist who had no experience in dealing with BPD, DID, etc., I doubt I would be as far as I am right now. You may want to consider if your therapist is the best "fit" for your situation and experiences.

JHKBuzz, been off the board for a few days.  But wanted to say thanks for your reply.  My T is a trauma specialist.  I did EMDR with her, it was immensely helpful.  But as a marital therapist she was no good.  She saw my wifes trauma (as well as mine) and only one of us took the treatment.  I am upset with her b/c she kept trying to address the causes and dismissed all the symptoms.  In the period over the last 5 years I went and saw 3 different T's to get some validation on how much I thought my wife's behavior was way outside the norm.  One of those T's met my wife once and told me not to bring her back b/c there was nothing she could do.  Totally histrionic was her understanding of my wife. 

I was trying to get marital T to address behaviors, not causes, even though I understood causes was legitimate explanation.  Kind of like you and your spouse walk into T office and spouse admits they are abusing you and T speaks to them in a soft voice and asks them why they think they do it and after hearing how it is the other spouses fault tell them how they can have a "fair fight". 

Shouldn't that person be told that abuse is wrong, harmful etc.

Oh well.  Another piece of litter on my highway of broken love.