ExBPD bf needs "space" from the emotional minefield? Seriously?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

For those of you contemplating being friends with your ex BPD. This is my story... .I had a 4 year on-again, off-again encounter with my ex BPDbf. I ended it a year ago due to unraveling his lies and cheating. He admitted to being unstable, borderline and an alcoholic. Three months later he broke NC on a dating site. Then he began texting from a new cell phone #.

Between February & June we met a few times for lunch, breakfast, and a hike. In July we met for drinks. Unfortunately (BIG mistake) we ended up sleeping together. He was engulfed and overwhelmed by the intimacy. He pushed me away and I was given the silent treatment for 3 weeks. This time I could actually see and understand what happened. I left a message for him saying "It seemed he was struggling with something and when he was ready to talk to let me know." Below is the text response I received:

"my name, I am struggling with the gray area we find ourselves in, on one hand I want to follow you around 24 seven, with my arms around you, and my lips pressed to yours. On the other hand, how do anything for you not to feel any emotional pain, or not meet your expectations. I don't know if two people who were so close can just be friends... .and hang out."

I replied: "Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. It sounds like you are struggling with the gray area. Why don't we get together and chat about it. I think it would help." I heard nothing from him for another 10 days, then I received the message below on FB: 

My name, I'm struggling with some ghosts... .I'm getting back into counseling to help deal with some issues and manage my life so that I can start to enjoy it more.   I'm putting a lot behind me... .sadly, I don't think it's a good idea to keep chatting with you or see you any time soon.  I need to move beyond "us" and figure out where I go from here... . Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... . I love you... .always have, always will.

My friend told me he shut down his FB account for a week in early July. The woman he cheated on me with last summer is still on his friends list. He deleted 2-3 women from his friends list. I believe they are also orbiting exes. It's like watching history repeat itself. I caught him 2 years ago flirting with another woman and inviting her for drinks on FB. He shut down his FB account for a year. At the time I thought he did it because he really loved me. I did not know at the time that he suffered from BPD.

The really sad part is, I don't believe anything he says because he's a pathological liar. I doubt he's seeking counseling. When I ended it last summer, he admitted to being unstable and borderline. He also told me he had been in counseling before for 12 years! I told him I hoped he'd seek help and get back into therapy. But as far as I know, he didn't. So, unfortunately I'm left trying to interpret his messages, whilst at the same time giving myself a "HUGE" kick in the pants for attempting or thinking we could ever be friends!

[RedDove]

For those of you contemplating being friends with your ex BPD. This is my story... .I had a 4 year on-again, off-again encounter with my ex BPDbf. I ended it a year ago due to unraveling his lies and cheating. He admitted to being unstable, borderline and an alcoholic. Three months later he broke NC on a dating site. Then he began texting from a new cell phone #.

Between February & June we met a few times for lunch, breakfast, and a hike. In July we met for drinks. Unfortunately (BIG mistake) we ended up sleeping together. He was engulfed and overwhelmed by the intimacy. He pushed me away and I was given the silent treatment for 3 weeks. This time I could actually see and understand what happened. I left a message for him saying "It seemed he was struggling with something and when he was ready to talk to let me know." Below is the text response I received:

"my name, I am struggling with the gray area we find ourselves in, on one hand I want to follow you around 24 seven, with my arms around you, and my lips pressed to yours. On the other hand, how do anything for you not to feel any emotional pain, or not meet your expectations. I don't know if two people who were so close can just be friends... .and hang out."

I replied: "Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. It sounds like you are struggling with the gray area. Why don't we get together and chat about it. I think it would help." I heard nothing from him for another 10 days, then I received the message below on FB: 

My name, I'm struggling with some ghosts... .I'm getting back into counseling to help deal with some issues and manage my life so that I can start to enjoy it more.   I'm putting a lot behind me... .sadly, I don't think it's a good idea to keep chatting with you or see you any time soon.  I need to move beyond "us" and figure out where I go from here... . Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... . I love you... .always have, always will.

My friend told me he shut down his FB account for a week in early July. The woman he cheated on me with last summer is still on his friends list. He deleted 2-3 women from his friends list. I believe they are also orbiting exes. It's like watching history repeat itself. I caught him 2 years ago flirting with another woman and inviting her for drinks on FB. He shut down his FB account for a year. At the time I thought he did it because he really loved me. I did not know at the time that he suffered from BPD.

The really sad part is, I don't believe anything he says because he's a pathological liar. I doubt he's seeking counseling. When I ended it last summer, he admitted to being unstable and borderline. He also told me he had been in counseling before for 12 years! I told him I hoped he'd seek help and get back into therapy. But as far as I know, he didn't. So, unfortunately I'm left trying to interpret his messages, whilst at the same time giving myself a "HUGE" kick in the pants for attempting or thinking we could ever be friends!

[Turkish]

Based upon the correspondence you share, not to mention the intimacy, it feels more like a lot of unresolved feelings from both of you (I.e., more than friends).

He's emotional unstable, compartmentalized, and is coping using the typical BPD mechanisms: splitting, and also lying. The latter, as Lawson says in Understanding The Borderline Mother, is emotional survival.

Even if you were to resolve the emotional intimacy issues, the boundaries on your side might have to be such that it would probably be more like casual acquaintances.  Speaking purely for myself, I could never be friends with my Ex after the lying and cheating, and we have no lingering desires for intimacy.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm sorry you're going through this.   

Go easy on yourself and don't kick yourself too hard. There's nothing wrong with wanting to reconnect with someone you love. And even when we understand BPD, it still can be confusing and painful to deal with it. Look at this as a learning experience.

Based upon the correspondence you share, not to mention the intimacy, it feels more like a lot of unresolved feelings from both of you (I.e., more than friends).

What are your expectations and hopes going forward?

[fromheeltoheal]

This time I could actually see and understand what happened.

So there's an upside.  And in addition, what did you learn, about him yes, but about you mostly, as a result of this latest?

"my name, I am struggling with the gray area we find ourselves in, on one hand I want to follow you around 24 seven, with my arms around you, and my lips pressed to yours. On the other hand, how do anything for you not to feel any emotional pain, or not meet your expectations. I don't know if two people who were so close can just be friends... .and hang out."

My name, I'm struggling with some ghosts... .I'm getting back into counseling to help deal with some issues and manage my life so that I can start to enjoy it more.   I'm putting a lot behind me... .sadly, I don't think it's a good idea to keep chatting with you or see you any time soon.  I need to move beyond "us" and figure out where I go from here... . Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... . I love you... .always have, always will.

I've been in that exact place at the end of a relationship, not able or willing to transition to a friendship, part of my thoughts being if we were really friends we'd still be together, and what's the point otherwise?  But that was temporary on my part, with your ex, and the lying, the booze, the infidelity and the admission of BPD, there's more to it; in that light it sounds like a borderline in push mode, but he was pretty clear about what we wants.

So, unfortunately I'm left trying to interpret his messages, whilst at the same time giving myself a "HUGE" kick in the pants for attempting or thinking we could ever be friends!

As others have mentioned, what's the motivation behind wanting to be friends?  A tester inroad to a possible new relationship, regardless of the lying and cheating, or something else?

[apollotech]

Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... .

RedDove,

That sounds like engulfment set in and he had to put distance between y'all. Yes, he might possibly be walking in an emotional minefield, not of your direct making, but indirectly made by you because of who you are to him, his emotional attachment to you.

I toyed with the idea of trying to re-establish a friendship with my BPDexgf. We have a long history, childhood friends. I have healed enough now to be able to do that. But here's the problem, she is not capable of doing that. She has major engulfment issues regarding me. I trigger those/her. So, essentially, I am toxic to her, even if I do nothing but breathe and have a pulse (I refuse to give those up in order to appease her disorder!).

It's not only about how he affects you. It is probably moreso, because of his illness, about how you affect him. You can regulate yourself, but he cannot regulate himself.

[rotiroti]

Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... .

RedDove,

That sounds like engulfment set in and he had to put distance between y'all. Yes, he might possibly be walking in an emotional minefield, not of your direct making, but indirectly made by you because of who you are to him, his emotional attachment to you.

I toyed with the idea of trying to re-establish a friendship with my BPDexgf. We have a long history, childhood friends. I have healed enough now to be able to do that. But here's the problem, she is not capable of doing that. She has major engulfment issues regarding me. I trigger those/her. So, essentially, I am toxic to her, even if I do nothing but breathe and have a pulse (I refuse to give those up in order to appease her disorder!).

It's not only about how he affects you. It is probably moreso, because of his illness, about how you affect him. You can regulate yourself, but he cannot regulate himself.

That entire paragraph is gold. As I have been detaching and healing the idea of re-establishing friendship crossed my mind for similar reasons -- shared memories and childhood friends. However she's not capable of doing that, at least not a 2 way friendship I would want. Thanks for reminding me apollo

[Lifewriter16]

Hi RedDove,

Thanks for your post. It is timely for me. I've been contemplating a more distant acquaintances arrangement with my BPDxbf on the basis that it would reduce the triggers.

Based upon the correspondence you share, not to mention the intimacy, it feels more like a lot of unresolved feelings from both of you (I.e., more than friends)... .Even if you were to resolve the emotional intimacy issues, the boundaries on your side might have to be such that it would probably be more like casual acquaintances.

But, who am I kidding? Thanks for your comments, Turkish. I thought to salvage something from our relationship but I think it has to be all or nothing. I want to see him because I have unresolved issues not because I just think he's a nice person and care what happens to him. I'm still wanting something from him. I'm looking to him for emotion, not a chat.

Over the last two days since my BPDxbf and I agreed to arrange to meet, I've noticed that I've gone from relief to wanting to cancel it and run away. I can't even imagine him making love to me anymore, it makes me feel nauseous because the image I have of him in my head is unpleasant. I have Asperger's Syndrome and aspies struggle with seeing things in black and white terms too.

I'm beginning to feel that all is hopeless. And that's as much because of who I am as who he is. I am very needy but I generally don't communicate my needs to him. I hate other people seeing me as needy. It erodes my self-respect and makes me feel very vulnerable. If other people see me as needy, they might run from me as a result or misuse that power. My BPDxbf can't read my mind, as he often reminds me. I get hurt when my needs go unmet and I cover up my hurt with annoyance. Then I lose track of the fact I love him and want to run. There are so many changes that need to be made. I don't think I can make my own changes let alone trust that he can make his. I think this is just going to cause more pain. Part of me says I should just avoid it, but I know that I've got lost in my fears and hurt again and am on the run.

Lifewriter

[RedDove]

Thank you ALL so much for your kind words, thoughts, comments and support! I quickly read through all of your valuable input. I found it all very insightful and so helpful right now! I will reply later when I've given it all some deeper thought and have more time to respond. Thank you! 

[RedDove]

Turkish, yes, definitely unresolved feelings. In our first year together (idealization), I saw myself marrying this man. However, I don't know what he felt, or feels. As you said, with the splitting and lying, it's very difficult to know what's real and what's not. I concur about the intimacy issues. 

Happy Nihilis, we knew each other in high school 30 years ago. We grew up in the same small town. We live .35 miles away from one another. When he revealed to me last year he was unstable & borderline, luckily I found the BPD family here. I researched and read a lot here and a myriad of books. I also unraveled my FOO issues and realized I was co-dependent and a caretaker. I worked on understanding my issues. 

Based on everything I learned, I knew a normal relationship with him would not be possible. When he contacted me, I kept my boundaries up and only offered friendship. At least up until July. We were friends for 7 months prior to being physically intimate and triggering his engulfment fears. 

I also strongly suspect he's still with the OW, my replacement. I asked him in April if he was dating anyone or in a relationship. He looked me straight in the eye and said no. Again, based upon the lies in the past, I can't trust him or anything he says.

Feomheeltoheal, yes, there is an upside. I was able to clearly see the push/pull and engulfment. You said he was pretty clear about what he wants. Can you expand on your thoughts? I interpreted his 1st message as pull, then push. I interpreted the 2nd message as all push... .he doesn't think it's a good idea to continue chatting or see me any time soon... .he needs to move beyond "us"!

Apollotech, yes, I do feel it was definitely engulfment and him putting distance in direct response to our recent intimacy. I agree with you, not my direct making, just the effect I have on him due to how his feelings and the disorder affect him.

I feel I have no choice but to walk away and go no contact. He can't handle the grey area (being friends). I know I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who can't understand or support my emotional needs. It's all about him, his needs! My loyalty and trust will be violated. I'd constantly be playing detective! I was in that situation with him for 2 years, I just didn't know at the time he suffered from BPD.

[apollotech]

RedDove,

Your story sounds very similar to mine. My ex and I were very good and dear HS friends, in fact, she was my date for my senior prom. We weren't romantically involved during HS. We were separated for 32 years just due to life happening. We became reacquainted last year, and a romance began. Needless to say, it didn't end well for either of us. I truly do miss my friend. I fully expected our friendship to last until one of us departed this realm.

But, as you have said, what can you do, what options are available to you when the other person cannot even be in your company? It is a sad paradox for all involved.

[RedDove]

Apollotech, Yes, our stories are very similiar! Interestingly enough my ex BPDbf dated my older sister during HS! I had a "HUGE" school girl crush on him when my sister brought him to the house!

My sister asked my exBPD bf to her Senior Prom. He tried to break up with her a week before prom! BUT, she made him take her and fulfill his promise. The next day my sister saw him walking in the town square with his ex gf. He had broken up with his girlfriend at the time to date my sister. Its crazy... .I cant make this sruff up! Lol! Then, he ended up marrying that girlfriend. They were together for 28 years. I can't imagine what she must have gone through and is still going through, they have three grown sons.

We reconnected in 2010 when he contacted me on Facebook. He admitted to me that he was originally looking for my big sister! Lol! But, shes not on FB. Being the good sister I am, when it escalated to him asking me out to dinner, I asked my sister for her permission. She LOL'd, because she's been married for 20 years! BUT, SHE DID REMIND ME OF THE PROM STORY! I shrugged it off time as typical teenage boy behavior.

I really thought it was fate and destiny, as im sure you did as well. But, as you said, we both know how our stories ended. No fairy tale, just a really bad horror story! Lol! I had been divorced for 10 years at the time when he reached out, and it's been 15 years now. My ex husband had an affair with a woman at work.

It's a very sad paradox indeed! I know I'm not the direct cause of the emotional minefield he said he felt our relationship evolved into. He was engulfed by his feelings for me and the emotional intimacy. It's just really heart wrenching to let go of someone you were so close to for soo long. I also thought at one time we'd spend the rest of our lives together.

The other frustrating piece for me is the fact that he wouldn't even meet and talk to me in person. I received a text and a FB message and that's it. There was no opportunity for a discussion about what his messages meant or what he was feeling. It's sad and typical in BPD relationships, the non is left struggling, with more questions than answers, and with no closure.

[apollotech]

Ha RedDove, you're not supposed to be telling "my" story!... .. Take the sister bits out and swap some dates and there ya go.

I had been divorced for eight years when my old friend and I were reacquainted. I had dated some really fine women in that eight years, but nothing ever clicked with one. In walks my dear, old friend. And she is extremely interested in more than a friendship (in an extreme BPD sort of way... .).

Because of who she was, because of our very good prior history together, my defenses were down and I was overlooking a lot that I would not have normally overlooked. Like you, I think that I fooled myself as well---I definitely romanticized us, and a future us. There is no doubt in my mind that if she'd have been healthy, we would have still been compatible after all those years of separation, and she would have been receptive to the idea, we would have married at some point. Within the first few months I saw that that wasn't going to be a possibility. I held on for eight months looking for a different tomorrow with her; our tomorrow never came.

The termination of the romance I am okay with. The termination of the friendship I still haven't fully resolved for myself. In 52 years of life, she is the only person that I have had to fully/completely walk away from (Yes, I consider myself to be very lucky to be able to say that.). So, I know how ya feel. It's not a good feeling to have, but, we must be responsible to ourselves first.

[fromheeltoheal]

Feomheeltoheal, yes, there is an upside. I was able to clearly see the push/pull and engulfment. You said he was pretty clear about what he wants. Can you expand on your thoughts? I interpreted his 1st message as pull, then push. I interpreted the 2nd message as all push... .he doesn't think it's a good idea to continue chatting or see me any time soon... .he needs to move beyond "us"!

"my name, I am struggling with the gray area we find ourselves in, on one hand I want to follow you around 24 seven, with my arms around you, and my lips pressed to yours. On the other hand, how do anything for you not to feel any emotional pain, or not meet your expectations. I don't know if two people who were so close can just be friends... .and hang out."

That's confusion, and I've been there, that gray area.

sadly, I don't think it's a good idea to keep chatting with you or see you any time soon.  I need to move beyond "us" and figure out where I go from here... . Please respect my need for space and know that if I am to have clarity of thought, I need to not be muddling through an emotional minefield that our relationship evolved into... . I love you... .always have, always will.

While that is pretty definite, he needs his space, he needs to move on, although he loves you and always will.  I've been there too, a letting go with love because we were incompatible, but that doesn't mean I thought any less of her.

The really sad part is, I don't believe anything he says because he's a pathological liar.

And then there's that, which makes everything else obsolete really.

So, unfortunately I'm left trying to interpret his messages,

And we're helping, and it's easier for us because we don't have the emotional component.  More important at this point might be instead of trying to interpret his messages, interpret your emotions around his messages.  How are you feeling as you read this?

[RedDove]

Apollotech, oh wow! I am sorry we share such a similiar story.  Do I dare say our stories "mirrored" (oh my!) one another's! On a more serious note, I am sorry you went through such a similiar experience. However, I am glad you shared your story, thoughts and experience with me. I don't feel so alone in what I've experienced and gone through. Thank you! 

At our age and at this point in our lives! I feel we should be settled in life. Had our exBPD's been normal and not suffering from BPD, we may have achieved just that. So it's also partly the loss of the dream of a happy, normal "non" ending and future.

Feomheeltoheal, thank you for your second message and additional thoughts and input. I truly value the support and advice I receive here on bpdfamily. There are so many caring and supportive members such as yourself. 

You asked me how I am feeling... .well, to be honest it's a combination of sadness and frustration. I'm deeply saddened at the loss of my friend. Believe it or not we mutually supported each other these past 7 months. My Dad had some major health issues and almost died. My exBPD bf was there for me providing care and support during the entire ordeal. We also chatted, mainly via text almost every day. I live in a small town and I don't have a lot of friends. Losing one friend who meant so much is really difficult. I guess you could say I understand how a BPD can feel and fear abandonment!

I was laid off from my job around the same time I ended it with my exBPDbf a year ago. I loved my career and I traveled a lot, which i truly miss! So I went through a lot of loss and change at the same time. I was able to go out walking, take yoga, Zumba, and go out to dinner, see a movie, catch a band, or go shopping on the weekends. All of the activities really helped me to get thru it. However, the money has run out, which really limits my options. Its also so hot here it's just not healthy for walking.

I have several job leads. But, the hiring process is long! The average interview/hiring cycle is 28 days! So sitting around alone waiting for a call for an interview or an offer is frustrating! Unfortunately I just have waay too much time on my hands to contemplate and ruminate over what just happened. I need to find a new project and purpose to focus my time, energy, and mind on!

[fromheeltoheal]

Feomheeltoheal, thank you for your second message and additional thoughts and input. I truly value the support and advice I receive here on bpdfamily. There are so many caring and supportive members such as yourself. 

You asked me how I am feeling... .well, to be honest it's a combination of sadness and frustration. I'm deeply saddened at the loss of my friend. Believe it or not we mutually supported each other these past 7 months. My Dad had some major health issues and almost died. My exBPD bf was there for me providing care and support during the entire ordeal. We also chatted, mainly via text almost every day. I live in a small town and I don't have a lot of friends. Losing one friend who meant so much is really difficult. I guess you could say I understand how a BPD can feel and fear abandonment!

I was laid off from my job around the same time I ended it with my exBPDbf a year ago. I loved my career and I traveled a lot, which i truly miss! So I went through a lot of loss and change at the same time. I was able to go out walking, take yoga, Zumba, and go out to dinner, see a movie, catch a band, or go shopping on the weekends. All of the activities really helped me to get thru it. However, the money has run out, which really limits my options. Its also so hot here it's just not healthy for walking.

I have several job leads. But, the hiring process is long! The average interview/hiring cycle is 28 days! So sitting around alone waiting for a call for an interview or an offer is frustrating! Unfortunately I just have waay too much time on my hands to contemplate and ruminate over what just happened. I need to find a new project and purpose to focus my time, energy, and mind on!

Unfortunately I just have waay too much time on my hands to contemplate and ruminate over what just happened. I need to find a new project and purpose to focus my time, energy, and mind on!

I understand Red, lots of loss and lots of time to sit around thinking about it, not a happy combo.  It's hard when we have a lot of emotional investment in someone, and a lot of time spent, and then that stops working and goes away; it leaves a big hole.  Of course our exes weren't all bad, we would have left immediately if they were, the relationship was a mix of good and bad that ultimately didn't work out, and when it ends we tend to focus on the good and miss it, weird that, and you don't have the interaction, identity and distraction of a career right now either.

So here's an opportunity now too, and you're exactly right, a new project and purpose to focus on will be inspirational, and instead of looking for it, how about creating it?  What are the top 3 ideas that come to mind right now?

[RedDove]

Thanks from Heeltoheal, yes exactly! When it doesn't work out and you don't have a lot going on in your life, such as a full time career and activities, it does leave a BIG hole!

Well, I'm thinking the top 3 ideas for new projects would be:

#1. Read the book The Jourmey From Abondment to Healing for a second time. I found the book and the Akeru excercises very helpful after I first ended it a year ago with my

#2. I spent the day with my older sister yesterday. I briefly explained what's been going on. Of course her immediate reaction was, "he's mentally I'll, block him, forget that cheating, lying jerk and move on". Again, no one understands what we are going through, except the caring folks here ay bpdfamily! I did manage to ask her for a small loan. I explained that I needed to do something positive to get my energy up. I plan on utilizing some of the money for bills and a small amount to get back into a yoga class once a week. Something relaxing, for me, to look forward to!

#3. I know it's summer, BUT, I never got to my spring cleaning! Lol! So I plan to go through my closets, etc. and throw away or donate old items. It will also be good to get my business wardrobe inventoried, organized and ready for any interviews.

Thank you for your support and helping me to refocus! 

[fromheeltoheal]

Good for you Red!  Now, how about assigning dates to those goals?  And if you really want to commit, post them here so you've gone 'public' with them.  Nothing like a little sense of urgency to get going and build some momentum, yes?