I need honest feedback, please.

[Klo]

I don't really know what is normal when it comes to parents, since both of mine have been really functional throughout my entire life. So I could really use some honest feedback on this situation.

I have type one bipolar disorder with psychotic features. Last Autumn I could not afford treatment, and I had a very bad episode and wound up homeless. I emerged from homelessness with no possessions, no money, nothing, and my mother let me move into her house while I get back on my feet.

Part of me is still very resentful over how she has never been supportive of me becoming a normal, independent adult, and has actively tried to sabotage it more than once. I think this makes me hyper-vigilant about it.

So when I first moved in, I was still coming out of a very bad mixed state episode with psychosis, and instead of taking me to see a proper psych professional for an evaluation, my mother decided that she would diagnosis me (she is not a psych professional), gave me the wrong diagnosis (not surprising) and then took me to a therapist that specialized in the wrong diagnosis that she gave me. She also came into my first therapy session to tell the therapist that I am manipulative and a liar (very triggering for me given childhood abuse history) and essentially sabotaged my therapy from square one.

As the months passed, I asked my mother to help me get a psychiatrist multiple times, and she just ignored me and would not help me go see a psychiatrist. She was too busy with multiple vacations and cruises and just didn't seem to care at all that I was getting really bad again and starting to deteriorate.

With the help of my then-therapist, after several months I was finally able to get a psychiatrist, and I am now on medication for the bipolar disorder and starting to do much better as it is slowly building up in my system. Now I am ready to get a job.

However I have no vehicle, and so I have very few options as far as getting a job, I could only realistically work within 3 miles of the house, since I can walk 3 mph, and the winters here get really intense. This means that I only have a handful of options including some fast food joints and a couple grocery stores. I have already applied to most of them and received no responses. I see ads online for job openings, but I would need a vehicle.

My mother and her husband make over a quarter of a million dollars per year. I feel that if my mother really wanted to help me become independent again, then she would buy me a cheap used car to open up my job prospects. But even just thinking that strikes me as being very selfish or something.

Do you think a normal parent would help out their adult child in this way, if they could easily afford it and the adult child was struggling with mental illness and trying to get a job again? Or do you think it is selfish or entitled of me to think that she would get me a used car if she really wanted me to succeed?

I'm just not sure what is normal or how to feel about things. I really feel like she just wants me to be like her house pet forever, and that notion just makes me feel extremely suicidal.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, Kio. I hear you and I understand what it's like to wonder which things our parents do are "normal" and to question the validity of our own feelings. That must feel so frustrating having your job options limited by lack of transportation. I can understand why you would want help getting a car!

No one here can really say whether your parents *should* buy you a car. We aren't able to evaluate their boundaries or motivations, not really knowing them. What we can do is offer to help you examine the reality of your situation and your options for dealing with it. Is that something you would be interested in?

It sounds like you already approached your mother to ask for help buying a car, is that right? I don't personally feel it would be selfishness or entitlement to do so, especially if you would be willing to include a proposal for how you will take responsibility (such as a plan for repayment if it helps you secure a job). If that didn't work, there may be some other options to explore even if they're less ideal (bikes, ride-sharing, etc.).

I felt trapped by a mother who didn't want me to become independent and leave her, so I can relate to that. I am concerned that it makes you feel suicidal. Are you talking about those feelings with your therapist and psychiatrist? 

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Klo]

Hi, Kio. I hear you and I understand what it's like to wonder which things our parents do are "normal" and to question the validity of our own feelings. That must feel so frustrating having your job options limited by lack of transportation. I can understand why you would want help getting a car!

No one here can really say whether your parents *should* buy you a car. We aren't able to evaluate their boundaries or motivations, not really knowing them. What we can do is offer to help you examine the reality of your situation and your options for dealing with it. Is that something you would be interested in?

It sounds like you already approached your mother to ask for help buying a car, is that right? I don't personally feel it would be selfishness or entitlement to do so, especially if you would be willing to include a proposal for how you will take responsibility (such as a plan for repayment if it helps you secure a job). If that didn't work, there may be some other options to explore even if they're less ideal (bikes, ride-sharing, etc.).

I felt trapped by a mother who didn't want me to become independent and leave her, so I can relate to that. I am concerned that it makes you feel suicidal. Are you talking about those feelings with your therapist and psychiatrist? 

Wishing you peace,

PF

I haven't asked her yet. I'm not even sure if I should. My mother never offers anything, I always have to ask, and it has always been that way. But if I ask for something that she doesn't think I deserve, then it's like I am a bad person for even asking. At this point in my life I have a very hard time asking for anything, and she occasionally rubs it in my face. Last time she asked me if I wanted a hug, but it was in her mocking voice, and then she said, "I know you have a hard time asking for affection." I didn't want to have to ask for affection, and I was being mocked for not asking anyway, so I just walked away. I really need a vehicle or I may never get out of here. I do let my pdoc know how I am doing, I have only seen her twice so far, though. We are working carefully together to try to figure out which thoughts/feelings need medication, and which ones are normal but need help in therapy.

[SunshinePuzzle]

I haven't asked her yet. I'm not even sure if I should. My mother never offers anything, I always have to ask, and it has always been that way. But if I ask for something that she doesn't think I deserve, then it's like I am a bad person for even asking. At this point in my life I have a very hard time asking for anything, and she occasionally rubs it in my face. Last time she asked me if I wanted a hug, but it was in her mocking voice, and then she said, "I know you have a hard time asking for affection." I didn't want to have to ask for affection, and I was being mocked for not asking anyway, so I just walked away. I really need a vehicle or I may never get out of here. I do let my pdoc know how I am doing, I have only seen her twice so far, though. We are working carefully together to try to figure out which thoughts/feelings need medication, and which ones are normal but need help in therapy.

Hi Klo, I just read your thread and wanted to say I'm sorry for the hardships you've gone through and are going through right now.  But I admire your attitude of making a plan to get out of your situation and declare some independence from her.  The fact that she never offers you anything but rubs it in your face when you ask, sounds to me like she may enjoy feeling like you need her, or owe her. Good for you for planning a way out!

I think PF Change offered very sound feedback.  I agree; I don't think it is selfish to ask, especially if it's not just an 'ask' but a proposal - like where you offer a plan for paying it back, with a realistic schedule of how much and when you might be able to start making payments on it. As part of the proposal, if it were me, I might also make the loan contingent upon my landing a job first - unless you are unable to land one without first having the car.

I personally don't like "owing" my mom anything, because she lords those kinds of things over a person for as long as she can. One of my siblings took a large loan from her a year or so ago and is very close to paying it off. My mom of course tells everyone about how much she loaned (she has to get the credit - no good deed of hers shall ever go unnoticed or un-posted-about-on-Facebook) and often moans about how she hasn't been paid back yet (a lie by omission - never clarifying that though she's not paid back in full yet, my sis has made regular payments and is close to making the final one).  Recently, despite always bringing up this loan as a weapon against my sis whenever the two of them fight, my mom offered to GIFT her the final payment, instead of taking it. In a "normal" family (like you I have grown up questioning what is normal) that might be taken for what it is at face value: a generous gift!  But anything "nice" like that from my mom is suspect. She'd go to the grave talking about how she loaned my sis a bunch of money and was never paid back. Ugh.  If your mom is at all like mine, and she does agree to the loan, I'd definitely suggest you make a payment plan part of your proposal or ask, and make sure to pay her back in full. 

[Klo]

Thank you for the advice, both of you. I worked up the nerve to ask. It was very awkward, but I kept my cool. First she said she wasn't sure if she could afford it, that she wouldn't mind helping me but doesn't know if she can. This is a huge lie, she is loaded with money and has bragged to me about it several times. I did not take the bait to argue, though, I just stayed silent and listened. When I didn't argue her statements, she then started implying that I will never be safe to drive again because I haven't owned a vehicle in years (was a pedestrian before I was homeless last year in a different part of the country). I calmly stated that I know how to drive and can legally drive, I would just need a week to practice locally and then I would be okay. She then changed the topic, something she does (or the total silent treatment) when she is pissed at me. I let us drift of course for a bit, and then brought it up again asking how she would like me to proceed with the topic. She said she would have to get approval from her husband first, because she won't spend her money on something like this, but the money they share. I was okay with that and gave a positive response. She then insisted that if they did get me a car, it would be one in very bad shape that would not last very long. I was okay with this, too. Honestly I am okay with any help whatsoever at this point (but didn't say that out loud). She then complained that she was up too late and wouldn't get enough sleep tonight because she will be thinking about how to help me get a job instead. I told her that I really just need a vehicle so I can get a job. She then expressed concern that my dog (my only thing left in life at this point is a small dog, my best friend) might not be okay if I work full time. All in all she really gave me the impression that I have feared all along, that she has never envisioned me getting out of here, ever driving again, ever working full time again. Never having a normal independent life. Apparently I am never safe to drive a car again, and I can't work full-time or my dog might not be okay. I'm not even sure whether or not that was a veiled threat against my dog. I never know with her. But at least I worked up the guts to ask.

[P.F.Change]

Well done on having that conversation. How does it feel to be taking steps to help yourself?

[Leaving]

Klo,

  My heart goes out to you.   This is a really challenging time for you but you sound strong and capable.  I too am in a very similar situation except that I'm not dealing with bipolar or homelessness yet. I was temporarily homeless last fall because my husband turned psychotic and I had to leave. I was living in a motel and I had to contact my mother after several years of NC.  I hated calling her.  At first, she was very rude, cold/detached and insensitive but then after about a half hour, she called me back and was all nice.  I intuitively felt that she had figured out that she could benefit from my misfortune by making me her ' house-pet' as you so aptly described.  Everything  that you wrote about describing your mother's attitude about helping you is exactly what I dealt with and it didn't take me long to figure out that she is so steeped in denial and selfishness that she is nothing but trouble for me.  I also understand how you feel about your dog.  I lost both my dogs last year and while it was absolutely horrible for me ( still is actually) it was a blessing in disguise.  I stayed in an abusive marriage for too long because of my dogs.  I think your dog will be ok as long as you don't leave for an extended period of time - even then, I doubt your mother will do anything horrible.  More than likely she would just ignore your dog.  She's also using the dog to make you feel like a negligent 'parent'... .more projection? 

  Is it possible for you to find a charitable organization like a Church or other non-profit who may know someone who would donate a car or loan you a car or provide transportation?  I know that sounds like a long shot but I've seen it happen a few times.  My neighbor loaned his car to my other neighbor so he could work.  Please at least call around to see if they can help in some way or know someone who could.  Also, a local abuse or homeless shelter may be able to help you find resources.  Is there public transportation where you live? 

One last thing... .my mother pulled the same control issue with counseling and I don't know if you read my other posts about her history of sending others to counseling or not but after reading your post, I almost fell on the floor. My mother sent me and my father to counseling and she also told my sister in law that my brother was nuts and needed a counselor.  When he filed for divorce, my ex sis in law used that against him in court to prove him unfit as a parent. My mom doesn't even feel the slightest bit of guilt.   She's done this kind of thing forever.   What is it with these people?  Are they projecting their insanity on us?  Thank G-d my counselor knew my mother was nuts but that was in a different time when greed wasn't the crux of medical practice.

I wish I had more to offer in the way of sound advice to help you find resources because I think anything that our mother's will offer us will be bad for us.  I will burn my brain cells today.  Maybe I can come up with a solution for both of us!

[Klo]

I went through a few phases, I guess. First I had an anxiety attack. Then I was extremely angry for being conditioned to be so scared to ask for help, it brought up so many memories of far more serious situations throughout my life where she was extremely selfish and abusive. Then I felt really depressed. Still feeling kind of depressed, but I know that it is a phase like the others and will pass.

[Klo]

I intuitively felt that she had figured out that she could benefit from my misfortune by making me her ' house-pet' as you so aptly described.  Everything  that you wrote about describing your mother's attitude about helping you is exactly what I dealt with and it didn't take me long to figure out that she is so steeped in denial and selfishness that she is nothing but trouble for me.

My mother has made some of creepiest comments to me, her little reveals about how she really sees me. She has said she likes having me live in her house, because that way when her husband is out of town she can still feel safe (me being in the role of sacrificing myself to protect her as been a thing since my childhood). She has also said she likes having me around because I do things like taking care of the dishes. She doesn't really love me. I am just a pet with limited uses.