Therapist is treating me for NPD traits

[dobie]

OK so my BPDexfiance  left in October last year it's been a long road I went into therapy to get answers to questions that she had a pd turns out I have issues esp around intimacy my foo and women "infantile rage" and "immaturity" so my T suggested I continue my T with a female therapist as all my r/s with women including my mother are dysfunctional.

She is lovely but she seems to think I have NPD traits  and I'm smart and we'll read enough to know she is trying to treat me for them  which I have told her repeatedly is ridiculous as I'm empathetic for a start don't think I'm a God and don't view people as sources of NARC supply .

I don't want to stop seeing her as I really like her but feel she does not get the hell I've endured with my exBPD fiance and my need for my ego to asset itself nor my justifiable rage at the way I've been used lied to devalued and discarded .



Did any of you find upon entering therapy the T started to treat you like you had a PD ?

[Learning_curve74]

Not every therapist will be a good fit for an individual. Are you otherwise happy with the work you've done with her so far?

Also, there is a difference between having NPD traits and having NPD. To an extent, we all sometimes display behaviors or have feelings that could be classified under a personality disorder. However, having a PD means you have a long term set way of experiencing and dealing with the world that is maladaptive and disordered.

We all have things about ourselves we can work on, that's nothing to be ashamed of. Or are you too narcissistic to admit it? 

[dobie]

Not every therapist will be a good fit for an individual. Are you otherwise happy with the work you've done with her so far?

Also, there is a difference between having NPD traits and having NPD. To an extent, we all sometimes display behaviors or have feelings that could be classified under a personality disorder. However, having a PD means you have a long term set way of experiencing and dealing with the world that is maladaptive and disordered.

We all have things about ourselves we can work on, that's nothing to be ashamed of. Or are you too narcissistic to admit it?  

Ha well she is sweet but green and inexperienced I think I know more about BPD than her .

She wants to focus on me having healthy r/s with women which I don't need I went out with someone with BPD traits I won't make that mistake again

I don't need a r/s  counsellor I need to fix what's missing in me after what happened to me and get healthy and whole

I might tell her I think your great but your just not experienced enough to treat me

I think I enjoy how attractive she is more than the therapy she is  a good listener but I think she looks exhausted and fatigued after seeing me I'm quite a handful she does not have the strength to deal with me. 

[BorisAcusio]

She is lovely but she seems to think I have NPD traits  and I'm smart and we'll read enough to know she is trying to treat me for them  which I have told her repeatedly is ridiculous as I'm empathetic for a start don't think I'm a God and don't view people as sources of NARC supply .

Misdiagnosis is quite common, still I wouldn't categorically rule out her assesment. According to a study, as much as 54 percent of the romantic partners of BPD themselves met the criteria for an Axis II PD and there is a whole literature on the narcissistic-borderline couple.

There is strong stigma attached to the diagnosis as the DSM criteria, shaping popular opinion, is geared toward malignant narcissism which is extremely rare while vulnerable narcissism shows a staggering 85 percent nomological correlation with BPD.

www.BPDcentral.com/blog/?Is-Your-Narcissist-the-Vulnerable-or-Grandiose-Type-22

Vulnerable NPs

Vulnerable narcissists (VNs) tend to be more emotionally sensitive. They feel helpless, anxious and victimized when people don't treat them like royalty. Just like those with BPD, vulnerable narcissists are preoccupied with fears of rejection and abandonment. They swing back and forth between feeling superior and inferior depending on what's going on in their life at the moment. A setback (such as being fired or threatened with divorce) can bring them to therapy. But when the crisis is over, they drop out.

VN's appear to be over-compensating for low self-esteem and a deep-seated sense of shame that may date back to early childhood. They developed the behaviors as a coping mechanism to deal with neglect, abuse or a dismissive style of parent-child attachment (meaning the parents never developed a close bond with their child, so he never felt safe and secure in his parents' love).

As adults, VNs care about how their partners see them and try to get respect. But ironically, they get defensive at suggestions that they change. They may have hidden affairs, yet accuse the other partner of being unfaithful and obsess about preventing that from happening.

[dobie]

She is lovely but she seems to think I have NPD traits  and I'm smart and we'll read enough to know she is trying to treat me for them  which I have told her repeatedly is ridiculous as I'm empathetic for a start don't think I'm a God and don't view people as sources of NARC supply .

Misdiagnosis is quite common, still I wouldn't categorically rule out her assesment. According to a study, as much as 54 percent of the romantic partners of BPD themselves met the criteria for an Axis II PD and there is a whole literature on the narcissistic-borderline couple.

There is strong stigma attached to the diagnosis as the DSM criteria, shaping popular opinion, is geared toward malignant narcissism which is extremely rare while vulnerable narcissism shows a staggering 85 percent nomological correlation with BPD.

www.BPDcentral.com/blog/?Is-Your-Narcissist-the-Vulnerable-or-Grandiose-Type-22

Vulnerable NPs

Vulnerable narcissists (VNs) tend to be more emotionally sensitive. They feel helpless, anxious and victimized when people don't treat them like royalty. Just like those with BPD, vulnerable narcissists are preoccupied with fears of rejection and abandonment. They swing back and forth between feeling superior and inferior depending on what's going on in their life at the moment. A setback (such as being fired or threatened with divorce) can bring them to therapy. But when the crisis is over, they drop out.

VN's appear to be over-compensating for low self-esteem and a deep-seated sense of shame that may date back to early childhood. They developed the behaviors as a coping mechanism to deal with neglect, abuse or a dismissive style of parent-child attachment (meaning the parents never developed a close bond with their child, so he never felt safe and secure in his parents' love).

As adults, VNs care about how their partners see them and try to get respect. But ironically, they get defensive at suggestions that they change. They may have hidden affairs, yet accuse the other partner of being unfaithful and obsess about preventing that from happening.

Well I'm more a vnpd but honestly that sounds off as well.

I'm far too introspective and self aware to be or have NPD traits

[fromheeltoheal]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

[dobie]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

[blissful_camper]

October of last year?  That's just 11 months out.  We all heal at a different pace.  While I felt much better at 11 months out, I was still sort of bouncing around in the healing process. 

Here's a video that you may find helpful.  (00:50) www.videojug.com/interview/personality-disorder-basics

[fromheeltoheal]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

[Sunfl0wer]

OK so my BPDexfiance  left in October last year it's been a long road I went into therapy to get answers to questions that she had a pd turns out I have issues esp around intimacy my foo and women "infantile rage" and "immaturity" so my T suggested I continue my T with a female therapist as all my r/s with women including my mother are dysfunctional.

Hi Dobie,

Good on you for seeking T, and working on yourself!

How long were you with the male T?  How did you do with him?  How did you feel about him saying you have infantile rage and immaturity?

~SF

[BorisAcusio]

Well I'm more a vnpd but honestly that sounds off as well.

I'm far too introspective and self aware to be or have NPD traits

Those are not mutually exclusive. Some are forced to become more insightful after their strong idea of reference is deflated by the interaction with the BPD, creating a narcissistic injury to the false self.

Vulnerable Narcissists are loving, caring and validating. They also stick their noses in everybody elses business but their own and become very controlling of the outcome of drama. They are the epitome of emotional rescuers and busy themselves in the act of rescuing- sometimes becoming fickle when they sense that someone else needs them more than the earliest first victim- consequently they have a tendency to favor people that are needy over people that are not.

I'm under no circumsances suggesting that you suffer from any personality disorders, I hope it doesn't come through that wat, just trying to offer more balanced view on narcissism as it is often used as the number one choice for casting off negative traits around here.  

[dobie]

Well I'm more a vnpd but honestly that sounds off as well.

I'm far too introspective and self aware to be or have NPD traits

Those are not mutually exclusive. Some are forced to become more insightful after their strong idea of reference is deflated by the interaction with the BPD, creating a narcissistic injury to the false self.

Vulnerable Narcissists are loving, caring and validating. They also stick their noses in everybody elses business but their own and become very controlling of the outcome of drama. They are the epitome of emotional rescuers and busy themselves in the act of rescuing- sometimes becoming fickle when they sense that someone else needs them more than the earliest first victim- consequently they have a tendency to favor people that are needy over people that are not.

I'm under no circumsances suggesting that you suffer from any personality disorders, I hope it doesn't come through that wat, just trying to offer more balanced view on narcissism as it is often used as the number one choice for casting off negative traits around here.  

No I understand Boris no offense taken or implied thank you for the links I've always been introspective though not just because of this episode with my BPD ex

[dobie]

OK so my BPDexfiance  left in October last year it's been a long road I went into therapy to get answers to questions that she had a pd turns out I have issues esp around intimacy my foo and women "infantile rage" and "immaturity" so my T suggested I continue my T with a female therapist as all my r/s with women including my mother are dysfunctional.

Hi Dobie,

Good on you for seeking T, and working on yourself!

How long were you with the male T?  How did you do with him?  How did you feel about him saying you have infantile rage and immaturity?

~SF

I found him to be quite a NARC himself tbh he liked to pontificate and acted like a font of wisom and could be quite patronising .

There's truth in what he says though I liked him even if he was a smug arrogant ass sometimes and I had I think eight sessions

[dobie]

October of last year?  That's just 11 months out.  We all heal at a different pace.  While I felt much better at 11 months out, I was still sort of bouncing around in the healing process. 

Here's a video that you may find helpful.  (00:50) www.videojug.com/interview/personality-disorder-basics

Thanks I'm getting there but still have a way to go thank you for the link

[dobie]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

He wanted me to mature via a women's helping hand that's what he was thinking and repair my r/s with woman from my foo and my dysfunctional childhood

She is a sweety but I can tell she just does not have the strength to deal with my very forceful personality at times or my rages

I've tried to be as authentic as I can with her and treat her with respect but she is not hard enough to put me in my place when I need it . I end up dominating her which is what I do with all women

[Sunfl0wer]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

He wanted me to mature via a women's helping hand that's what he was thinking and repair my r/s with woman from my foo and my dysfunctional childhood

She is a sweety but I can tell she just does not have the strength to deal with my very forceful personality at times or my rages

I've tried to be as authentic as I can with her and treat her with respect but she is not hard enough to put me in my place when I need it . I end up dominating her which is what I do with all women

Humm... .

In what way do you want her to put you in your place?

What are you raging about?

Is it a rage directed towards her?  Or about something else?

How does she handle it?

How did male T handle it?  Any better?

[dobie]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

He wanted me to mature via a women's helping hand that's what he was thinking and repair my r/s with woman from my foo and my dysfunctional childhood

She is a sweety but I can tell she just does not have the strength to deal with my very forceful personality at times or my rages

I've tried to be as authentic as I can with her and treat her with respect but she is not hard enough to put me in my place when I need it . I end up dominating her which is what I do with all women

Humm... .

In what way do you want her to put you in your place?

What are you raging about?

Is it a rage directed towards her?  Or about something else?

How does she handle it?

How did male T handle it?  Any better?

Dominate me or I will dominate her its a power play esp with women

I've always had rage issues my whole life its why I was attracted to such a high conflict partner like my ex

She just let's me run out of steam , tries  to redirect

Yes but I was weaker in my ego when I saw him now I'm feeling stronger not sure he could either

[fromheeltoheal]

Anger is usually a secondary emotion; have you dug to see what's under the rage?

[dobie]

Anger is usually a secondary emotion; have you dug to see what's under the rage?

That's the work we are doing

[Klo]

I'm empathetic for a start don't think I'm a God and don't view people as sources of NARC supply .

There is a lot more to NPD than lacking true empathy, thinking you're a deity or needing narcissistic supply. It seems like maybe you haven't had it explained to you specifically what NPD traits she thinks you have?

I myself have some covert NPD traits. I embarrass easily, especially when it is implied (real or imagined) that I am not as smart as someone else, don't know as much as someone else, or that I am not as in control as I think I am. To me these things are extremely threatening, and can send me into a rage, which I typically then internalize into severe anxiety. I think for me it's because growing up I was abused and shamed, but the one thing I felt I had going for me was that I was academically smart and my teachers liked me, I was usually a "teacher's pet". I think as a child I derived a lot of comfort and strength and some semblance of self-esteem from that, helped keep me emotionally alive. So now as an adult, I do believe that I have some covert narcissism when it comes to those areas.

But hopefully you see, this doesn't mean that I always lack empathy, or that I think I am a god, or that I constantly need narc supply in the form of others telling me how smart I am. It's subtle, covert and ultimately harms myself, since I am the one who secretly has to deal with the insecurity, anxiety and low self-esteem.

Just using myself as an example of how you could have some NPD traits that may have interacted with your ex's BPD traits, and it doesn't have to mean that you're some crazy egomaniac.

[HappyNihilist]

It's great that you're discovering and working on yourself in therapy.  

Also, there is a difference between having NPD traits and having NPD.

We all have things about ourselves we can work on, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

learning_curve makes good points here. A whole lot of people have PD traits but no PD. The great majority of us on this site are/were in disordered relationships because we have unhealthy traits and patterns. Narcissistic-and-borderline is a common coupling.

Narcissism is not inherently bad or good. It just is what it is. Boris provided good information on vulnerable narcissism.

just trying to offer more balanced view on narcissism as it is often used as the number one choice for casting off negative traits around here.  

That being said... .it's certainly understandable to feel frustrated if you think you're not being adequately heard or understood in therapy. I think opening up a dialogue about this with your therapist would be helpful. A good therapist welcomes interaction and feedback.

Dominate me or I will dominate her its a power play esp with women

Why do you think you see life, and especially interactions with women, as a power struggle?

You felt like your male therapist was patronizing you. Do you think maybe you're patronizing your female therapist a little bit? "She's a sweetie but she doesn't really know what she's talking about or how to handle me."

She just let's me run out of steam , tries  to redirect

What do you feel would be a more effective course of action?

Have you tried to talk to her about what you're feeling/thinking? Maybe something like, "I feel like I'm dominating these sessions, what can we do to work on that?"

[Sunfl0wer]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

He wanted me to mature via a women's helping hand that's what he was thinking and repair my r/s with woman from my foo and my dysfunctional childhood

She is a sweety but I can tell she just does not have the strength to deal with my very forceful personality at times or my rages

I've tried to be as authentic as I can with her and treat her with respect but she is not hard enough to put me in my place when I need it . I end up dominating her which is what I do with all women

Humm... .

In what way do you want her to put you in your place?

What are you raging about?

Is it a rage directed towards her?  Or about something else?

How does she handle it?

How did male T handle it?  Any better?

Dominate me or I will dominate her its a power play esp with women

I've always had rage issues my whole life its why I was attracted to such a high conflict partner like my ex

She just let's me run out of steam , tries  to redirect

Yes but I was weaker in my ego when I saw him now I'm feeling stronger not sure he could either

So it sounds like you are saying that she is not engaging you in this play of power by trying to control or dominate you?

Can you learn to be ok with someone NOT trying to control or dominate you?

You say you are feeling stronger.  What strength do you feel you have that is stronger?  In what way are you stronger?

(Being domineering, is not a strength, but a weakness... IMO)

[dobie]

Does your relationship with this therapist remind you of or seem like relationships you've had with other women in your life?

No she is warm and caring maybe one but that's it why ?

Because if the same thoughts and emotions are coming up with this gal that did with other women in your life that could be a great place to look at and work on them.  So far she's not giving you what you want and she's inexperienced, it's all her; what can you bring to the relationship to make it work, just for practice?  And maybe that's what your other therapist was thinking when he sent you to a woman?

He wanted me to mature via a women's helping hand that's what he was thinking and repair my r/s with woman from my foo and my dysfunctional childhood

She is a sweety but I can tell she just does not have the strength to deal with my very forceful personality at times or my rages

I've tried to be as authentic as I can with her and treat her with respect but she is not hard enough to put me in my place when I need it . I end up dominating her which is what I do with all women

Humm... .

In what way do you want her to put you in your place?

What are you raging about?

Is it a rage directed towards her?  Or about something else?

How does she handle it?

How did male T handle it?  Any better?

Dominate me or I will dominate her its a power play esp with women

I've always had rage issues my whole life its why I was attracted to such a high conflict partner like my ex

She just let's me run out of steam , tries  to redirect

Yes but I was weaker in my ego when I saw him now I'm feeling stronger not sure he could either

So it sounds like you are saying that she is not engaging you in this play of power by trying to control or dominate you?

Can you learn to be ok with someone NOT trying to control or dominate you?

You say you are feeling stronger.  What strength do you feel you have that is stronger?  In what way are you stronger?

(Being domineering, is not a strength, but a weakness... IMO)

It's in my nature to dominate or be dominated preferably the former I have no idea why perhaps more therapy will give me answers but equality is not a word I feel or use .

[dobie]

It's great that you're discovering and working on yourself in therapy.  

Also, there is a difference between having NPD traits and having NPD.

We all have things about ourselves we can work on, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

learning_curve makes good points here. A whole lot of people have PD traits but no PD. The great majority of us on this site are/were in disordered relationships because we have unhealthy traits and patterns. Narcissistic-and-borderline is a common coupling.

Narcissism is not inherently bad or good. It just is what it is. Boris provided good information on vulnerable narcissism.

just trying to offer more balanced view on narcissism as it is often used as the number one choice for casting off negative traits around here.  

That being said... .it's certainly understandable to feel frustrated if you think you're not being adequately heard or understood in therapy. I think opening up a dialogue about this with your therapist would be helpful. A good therapist welcomes interaction and feedback.

Dominate me or I will dominate her its a power play esp with women

Why do you think you see life, and especially interactions with women, as a power struggle?

You felt like your male therapist was patronizing you. Do you think maybe you're patronizing your female therapist a little bit? "She's a sweetie but she doesn't really know what she's talking about or how to handle me."

She just let's me run out of steam , tries  to redirect

What do you feel would be a more effective course of action?

Have you tried to talk to her about what you're feeling/thinking? Maybe something like, "I feel like I'm dominating these sessions, what can we do to work on that?"

Hey happy I've always been in charge in my r/s I can't stand criticism or decent and I will manipulate to get my own way its just what I've always done

NARC traits ?

Criticism esp from a partner is  likely to send me into a rage

I don't have answers yet I'm just aware of my behaviours

[valet]

It's in my nature to dominate or be dominated preferably the former I have no idea why perhaps more therapy will give me answers but equality is not a word I feel or use .

Dobie, I've followed your story and I think that it's very good that you've started seeking therapy.

I understand that it may be hard to grasp what your T(s) are telling you. Often times, I don't want to hear and/or can't fully get my thoughts around things that others say to me. It has happened here on these boards a lot, even. Everyone here understands that on some level, I think. We've all been through the turmoil that one of these relationships stirs up. We've all denied things, and we've all made mistakes.

I want you to look at what you're saying in this quote. You claim to have no traits, but if it is 'in [your] nature to dominate' and 'equality is not that word that [you] feel or use', maybe it is best to consider that there is work to be done on yourself. Your T might be telling you things that are important for you to listen to and think about.

Best of luck.