White knights,people pleasers & BPD/npd

[Lostone1314]

Just curious how do relationships between white knights/people pleasers and BPD/npd play out ?

As I understand it pwPD thrive on attention & admiration and they mirror this by placing the non on a pedastool... correct ?

[disorderedsociety]

Yes, the pedestal. The white knights feels as if his efforts to save the world (himself, really) have not gone in vain when the pwBPD mirrors back to them the affection they so easily give to their disordered partner. I like that word.

[Lostone1314]

Yes, the pedestal. The white knights feels as if his efforts to save the world (himself, really) have not gone in vain when the pwBPD mirrors back to them the affection they so easily give to their disordered partner. I like that word.

So as long as the white knight continues to place pwPD on pedastool the Rs will last ?

[hergestridge]

Yes, the pedestal. The white knights feels as if his efforts to save the world (himself, really) have not gone in vain when the pwBPD mirrors back to them the affection they so easily give to their disordered partner. I like that word.

So as long as the white knight continues to place pwPD on pedastool the Rs will last ?

Not a chance. A pwBPD does see this "placing on a pedestal" through and will again and again challenge the love and admiration of the non until the non admits that the pwBPD has flaws and that the love given is not unconditional. Then this is used a receipt that the non does not really love the pwBPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

Were you a white knight or a people pleaser in your relationship Lost?

[once removed]

Yes, the pedestal. The white knights feels as if his efforts to save the world (himself, really) have not gone in vain when the pwBPD mirrors back to them the affection they so easily give to their disordered partner. I like that word.

So as long as the white knight continues to place pwPD on pedastool the Rs will last ?

Not a chance. A pwBPD does see this "placing on a pedestal" through and will again and again challenge the love and admiration of the non until the non admits that the pwBPD has flaws and that the love given is not unconditional. Then this is used a receipt that the non does not really love the pwBPD.

its a relationship built on one person getting their self worth from saving someone, and the other getting their self worth from being saved. thats not much of a foundation to build a relationship on. after the saving, whats next? where do the two go from there, how do they build, what do they build on? sometimes, perpetual saving and needing to be saved. thats exhausting for both parties.

[workinprogress]

I wasn't into saving people, but I was an extreme people please.  I based my value as a person on going above and beyond for everyone.  It became exhausting.

Now, I am trying to base my feelings about myself from within rather than outside of myself.  It has been a very difficult transition, and I often felt like a boat without a rudder.  I was charting new territory without a map.

Progress has been slow, but it has been worth it!

As far as relationship with BPD, I think she really took advantage of my need to please.

[rotiroti]

I am ashamed to admit that I was the ultimate people pleaser in this RS. I had known my pwBPD for years and would always be her support, her family loved me etc. It was all feeding into my ego in the most unhealthy way.

We eventually got engaged and it could've lasted longer I suppose. When I first realized the first set of red flags and anger explosion, I was out of there.

I think age definitely plays a big factor (at least for me). A younger 20 something me would've stuck around hoping and clutching at false hopes.

[workinprogress]

I am ashamed to admit that I was the ultimate people pleaser in this RS. I had known my pwBPD for years and would always be her support, her family loved me etc. It was all feeding into my ego in the most unhealthy way.

We eventually got engaged and it could've lasted longer I suppose. When I first realized the first set of red flags and anger explosion, I was out of there.

I think age definitely plays a big factor (at least for me). A younger 20 something me would've stuck around hoping and clutching at false hopes.

I think the biggest appeal to me was feeling "needed."  Somehow, it made me feel manly by having a woman that relied on me a great deal.  I felt like I was fulfilling my role as a man, by providing and protecting.

[workinprogress]

I am ashamed to admit that I was the ultimate people pleaser in this RS. I had known my pwBPD for years and would always be her support, her family loved me etc. It was all feeding into my ego in the most unhealthy way.

We eventually got engaged and it could've lasted longer I suppose. When I first realized the first set of red flags and anger explosion, I was out of there.

I think age definitely plays a big factor (at least for me). A younger 20 something me would've stuck around hoping and clutching at false hopes.

I think the biggest appeal to me was feeling "needed."  Somehow, it made me feel manly by having a woman that relied on me a great deal.  I felt like I was fulfilling my role as a man, by providing and protecting.

In fact, when I am painted black (like I am currently), I have noticed that what I miss and long for the most is the feeling of being needed.

[Lostone1314]

Were you a white knight or a people pleaser in your relationship Lost?

NO I don't believe I was I wanted and asked for equality I didn't put her on a pedastool sure I complimented her and gave her my affection but ultimately she wasn't able to control me if she asked me to do something unreasonable like sell my home to buy one that she could call ours without her financial assistance I said NO... or to buy the Harley she wanted without her assistance I said NO... .she would force me to drink I said NO... .

Our discussions consisted of her daughters hatred for me and her lack of help in household chores... I didn't want to live in filth so I did all the housework even cleaned up after her kids... I paid all the bills

She never said it but she wanted a man that would worship her place her on a pedastool,provide financial security and tolerate hers and her children's behaviours... a drinking,partying man who would be happy to have a beautiful woman who's only real asset was sex... she believes she is entitled to pedastool status because she is beautiful and a pro at sex and that this should be all she has to contribute... .

I tolerated her abuse and the child's cause I was nearing 50 and didn't want to start over or spend my remaining days alone...

My replacement will place her on a pedastool and since he is wealthy it won't hurt him to spend his money on her in return he gets porn style sex ... @57 and obese he won't give her up and she won't give up the lifestyle his money can buy for her and her kids... constant diner outings,vacations,major social events,concerts,parties, alcohol.

She won't do housework or pay bills and he won't care cause he doesn't do housework either and cause he's rich payin bills himself isn't a problem...

The reason I posed this question is I've read in books and online woman nowadays need men to worship them,place them on pedastools and cater for every need basically they are after white knights to save them from having to make their own happiness...

I'm not good at worshiping women... hate the idea of placing another above or below me... I was just wondering if a white knight can make a BPD Rs work assuming she is BPD and not just a nasty woman when she's not worshipped

[workinprogress]

Were you a white knight or a people pleaser in your relationship Lost?

NO I don't believe I was I wanted and asked for equality I didn't put her on a pedastool sure I complimented her and gave her my affection but ultimately she wasn't able to control me if she asked me to do something unreasonable like sell my home to buy one that she could call ours without her financial assistance I said NO... or to buy the Harley she wanted without her assistance I said NO... .she would force me to drink I said NO... .

Our discussions consisted of her daughters hatred for me and her lack of help in household chores... I didn't want to live in filth so I did all the housework even cleaned up after her kids... I paid all the bills

She never said it but she wanted a man that would worship her place her on a pedastool,provide financial security and tolerate hers and her children's behaviours... a drinking,partying man who would be happy to have a beautiful woman who's only real asset was sex... she believes she is entitled to pedastool status because she is beautiful and a pro at sex and that this should be all she has to contribute... .

I tolerated her abuse and the child's cause I was nearing 50 and didn't want to start over or spend my remaining days alone...

My replacement will place her on a pedastool and since he is wealthy it won't hurt him to spend his money on her in return he gets porn style sex ... @57 and obese he won't give her up and she won't give up the lifestyle his money can buy for her and her kids... constant diner outings,vacations,major social events,concerts,parties, alcohol.

She won't do housework or pay bills and he won't care cause he doesn't do housework either and cause he's rich payin bills himself isn't a problem...

The reason I posed this question is I've read in books and online woman nowadays need men to worship them,place them on pedastools and cater for every need basically they are after white knights to save them from having to make their own happiness...

I'm not good at worshiping women... hate the idea of placing another above or below me... I was just wondering if a white knight can make a BPD Rs work assuming she is BPD and not just a nasty woman when she's not worshipped

The thing is, when a man worships a woman and puts her on a pedestal, she loses respect for him.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm not a 'fixer,' but I was a very dedicated 'people pleaser.' I credit my relationship with my exBPDbf for bringing my own issues to the surface so I could explore and work on them.

I definitely think it's an important topic to explore - why doesn't the White Knight win over the princess? How does the ultimate people pleaser fail to please? We can see how our own patterns and roles might be unhealthy and not working in our best interest.

I was just wondering if a white knight can make a BPD Rs work assuming she is BPD and not just a nasty woman when she's not worshipped

No, nobody can make a BPD relationship work if they're playing a role like that. A successful BPD relationship requires a lot of self-awareness, strength, radical acceptance, and non-enabling on the part of the "non" partner.

its a relationship built on one person getting their self worth from saving someone, and the other getting their self worth from being saved. thats not much of a foundation to build a relationship on. after the saving, whats next? where do the two go from there, how do they build, what do they build on? sometimes, perpetual saving and needing to be saved. thats exhausting for both parties.

^ This. Playing roles and having a one-up/one-down dynamic is not conducive to authentic intimacy.

The reason I posed this question is I've read in books and online woman nowadays need men to worship them,place them on pedastools and cater for every need basically they are after white knights to save them from having to make their own happiness...

We do?    Maybe I need to read some of those books... .   

[Lostone1314]

I'm not a 'fixer,' but I was a very dedicated 'people pleaser.' I credit my relationship with my exBPDbf for bringing my own issues to the surface so I could explore and work on them.

I definitely think it's an important topic to explore - why doesn't the White Knight win over the princess? How does the ultimate people pleaser fail to please? We can see how our own patterns and roles might be unhealthy and not working in our best interest.

I was just wondering if a white knight can make a BPD Rs work assuming she is BPD and not just a nasty woman when she's not worshipped

No, nobody can make a BPD relationship work if they're playing a role like that. A successful BPD relationship requires a lot of self-awareness, strength, radical acceptance, and non-enabling on the part of the "non" partner.

its a relationship built on one person getting their self worth from saving someone, and the other getting their self worth from being saved. thats not much of a foundation to build a relationship on. after the saving, whats next? where do the two go from there, how do they build, what do they build on? sometimes, perpetual saving and needing to be saved. thats exhausting for both parties.

^ This. Playing roles and having a one-up/one-down dynamic is not conducive to authentic intimacy.

The reason I posed this question is I've read in books and online woman nowadays need men to worship them,place them on pedastools and cater for every need basically they are after white knights to save them from having to make their own happiness...

We do?    Maybe I need to read some of those books... .   

Are you saying women are not after white nights and pleasers .

[HappyNihilist]

Are you saying women are not after white nights and pleasers .

I am saying that, yes.

Some women are after rescuers, fixers, or pleasers. Some men are after rescuers, fixers, or pleasers. Some women want to rescue, fix, or please. Some men want to rescue, fix, or please.

It isn't emotionally healthy to want these things. It's impossible to achieve true intimacy when the partners don't see each other as equals and can't be their authentic selves. Seeing someone as a 'project' is objectifying. So is seeing someone as a 'savior.'

Relationships that work - whether BPD or not - involve at least one person who is centered and authentic to themselves. If it's not both partners (as is the case with relationships with mentally/emotionally disordered people), then the 'non' partner must be able to be strong and authentic enough for both parties if necessary.

Because of this, even the most 'perfect' White Knight or most self-sacrificing pleaser would not be able to sustain a relationship with someone with BPD and/or NPD.

I know. No matter how deeply I delved into my role of 'pleaser,' it was never enough to 'please' my exBPDbf. It was like pouring water into a bottomless well. Eventually, it became obvious to both of us that I was self-sacrificing to the point of complete annihilation. My exBPDbf actually pushed me away and encouraged me to work on myself because I was an awesome person who deserved to be happy and love myself. Also, it was not at all healthy for him to be in a relationship with such a self-sacrificing, willing participant. I unlocked deep demons that he'd spent decades locking away in the basement of his soul.

Not only are these types of one-up/one-down relationships unhealthy for the 'non,' they are also unhealthy for the disordered partner.

[once removed]

Are you saying women are not after white nights and pleasers .

I am saying that, yes.

Some women are after rescuers, fixers, or pleasers. Some men are after rescuers, fixers, or pleasers. Some women want to rescue, fix, or please. Some men want to rescue, fix, or please.

It isn't emotionally healthy to want these things. It's impossible to achieve true intimacy when the partners don't see each other as equals and can't be their authentic selves. Seeing someone as a 'project' is objectifying. So is seeing someone as a 'savior.'

Relationships that work - whether BPD or not - involve at least one person who is centered and authentic to themselves. If it's not both partners (as is the case with relationships with mentally/emotionally disordered people), then the 'non' partner must be able to be strong and authentic enough for both parties if necessary.

Because of this, even the most 'perfect' White Knight or most self-sacrificing pleaser would not be able to sustain a relationship with someone with BPD and/or NPD.

I know. No matter how deeply I delved into my role of 'pleaser,' it was never enough to 'please' my exBPDbf. It was like pouring water into a bottomless well. Eventually, it became obvious to both of us that I was self-sacrificing to the point of complete annihilation. My exBPDbf actually pushed me away and encouraged me to work on myself because I was an awesome person who deserved to be happy and love myself. Also, it was not at all healthy for him to be in a relationship with such a self-sacrificing, willing participant. I unlocked deep demons that he'd spent decades locking away in the basement of his soul.

Not only are these types of one-up/one-down relationships unhealthy for the 'non,' they are also unhealthy for the disordered partner.

emotionally healthy women, or men, are not, as happynihilist said, after a project. plenty of men and women are after those things. thats obvious. that doesnt make such a dynamic emotionally mature or healthy; there are plenty of emotionally immature and unhealthy people of both sexes. be the best version of yourself, and be loved for who you are, and vice versa 

[Lostone1314]

I suppose I posses this question cause I don't believe I'm a rescuer or pleaser but I am a knight for real so I have above average integrity and morals but I don't seek out people to help or please,however if I'm asked and its within me to do so without compromising myself then I do... like I would not intentionally do or help someone if I have to sacrifice myself in the process.

My mom said that my exgf told her I was too Honest/good is it possible she saw this goodness in me which she lacked (serial cheating) and projected her own self shame onto me by verbal abuse and gaslighting to tear me down in her mind to her level of self worth...

Now I can say I'm a fixer (mechanic by trade) always like fixing things as a child pulling stuff apart see how it works and build it back up into something else... but I don't believe I did this with my ex I just wanted some equality in our Rs but I guess in a sense that is trying to change someone they are not... prior to discussing moving into my new double storey hm which to her and her kids coming from an older much smaller home would've looked like a castle we discussed that I wanted it to remain reasonably clean and tidy... she even told her kids that they won't be able to behave in my home as they did hers leaving food snaps and soiled clothing lying about in rooms,coming inside with greasy hands or dirty shoes... everyone agreed and she moved in and I honestly believed that she would appreciate my home and make it ours with pride not in a materialistic sense but as a sense of accomplishment a step up so to speak from living in a dishelved home... well the kids hated the place and my ex rarely lifted a finger to help preferring to spend her downtime from wk drinking or galavanting about. I did it all not to please her but to please me cause I liked it that way.

I guess I'm still trying to understand where her abusive insults and drinking came from why I got painted black cause aside from stopping drinking and putting on 10lbs I was the same man she fell in love with only 4 years earlier... was I painted black because I was too honest or too good or was it cause I wasn't all smothering and worshiping enough... .hopeless in bed...

Or is it she is just a crazy cluster b

[foggydew]

Almost everyone needs to feel needed, to feel important to someone. Or more people. Why would we have families otherwise? But in most relationships there's a balance of some kind - seems with BPD it's all or nothing, and that disorientates the (relatively) normal non in the relationship. I can't do with all this labelling, knights, fixers, etc.

[fromheeltoheal]

The reason I posed this question is I've read in books and online woman nowadays need men to worship them,place them on pedastools and cater for every need basically they are after white knights to save them from having to make their own happiness...

It's interesting to discover where our beliefs come from, in this case it's books and online Lost, and choosing to believe global beliefs like that about women, or about anything for that matter, predisposes us to look for signs that support that belief.  I'll guess that you don't think all women are the same 'nowadays', and it's fruitful to define and focus on the type of woman we want to be with, your ex wasn't that since you're here, but who is the woman of your dreams?

[workinprogress]

Almost everyone needs to feel needed, to feel important to someone. Or more people. Why would we have families otherwise? But in most relationships there's a balance of some kind - seems with BPD it's all or nothing, and that disorientates the (relatively) normal non in the relationship. I can't do with all this labelling, knights, fixers, etc.

Interestingly enough, my wife said yesterday, "I am an all or nothing person."

I had to roll my eyes at that one.

[rotiroti]

Morals and integrity are subjective, but that could a post of its own (endless posts probably).

What do you mean by hopeless in bed?

[Lostone1314]

Morals and integrity are subjective, but that could a post of its own (endless posts probably).

What do you mean by hopeless in bed?

She was into porn style sex,bondage and the like and I lacked experience... few times she put me down cause of my performance... I know my replacement is into that sort of thing... feel I coulda tried harder in this area but having said that she wasn't an equal partner anyways... in the end she lamented she had to pay half  mortgage to help me out even tho it was her choice from day one... she was after a free ride in exchange for sex cause it's all she had to offer and the only good thing she excelled at... I'm sure she felt entitled cause she was beautiful and very good at sex... thing is we discussed things before moving in she knew I was not wealthy,that I didn't drink or party,that I was average in bed,that I was clean and tidy and yet these are the things she insulted me for during our final year... if my qualities were not what she wanted then why say she loved me and why enter into ltr

A poster long ago said she used me for financial gain and emotional security... she rented her home out during our Rs and pocketed the income even complaining it wasn't enough but she still made 15g over the 4 years which she used to refurbish her own just prior to moving out of mine and before she broke up... she used right till the bitter end cause at that time she was cheating but I had no idea nor did I know she was gonna break up... we had agreed to live apart till kids grew up

My trouble lies in accepting the woman she was in our first year or so is not the same as the one in the end and that essentially I was used... I don't understand how she coulda fallen out of love without saying anything so I could make wateva changes were reasonable... she didn't give me a chance... the daughter would've had a major say and perhaps after she moved out the kid started whispering in mums ear until she relented... I'm so confused... damaged I had no real closure no explanation no apology there was no remorse no regret no a single tear shed she was stone cold and unemotional barely 2 months later when I asked we meet so I could get some closure and answers I couldn't even touch her and all I got were half truths and more gas lighting the best she could muster was that she was not happy she hurt me but I see that as more about her than me it really means she's not overjoyed she hurt me but she isn't sorry either just indifferent... I was a mess and yet it didn't affect her,this is the same woman that would shed a tear over something she had seen on TV she had more empathy for a movie character than she had for me...

In reply to a previous poster my dream girl was the woman she pretended to be and I guess that's why I stayed cause on occasions she would let me see that girl and I thought things would be ok after kids grew up...

I've no doubt she will stay with my replacement because he is the personality she wants a drinker,parties,reasonably wealthy,uninhibited in bed and will shower her with all her wants and needs cause he can afford to... he won't care she's not into housework or that she won't help financially and she knows this so despite the 12 year age gap and the obesity he is more convienient than I was.

I don't want her back and it's unlikely she will ever make contact again tho I'm sure will see eachother from time to time my town is very small Its just that I'm running outa time I've tried everything not to think of the woman she was by replacing her with the woman she is and yet I still mourn her loss 16months out and I should be over her in fact I should hate her for the things she said and did but I'm not and I know that if I don't stop thinking of her I'll never make room for another... next week my doc is gonna put me on antidepressants the first time in my life I've ever had to take such a thing let alone see a therapist...

I will never know why she turned on me and if it was due to a behaviour of mine how can I know to fix it if she never gave me closure...

I ruminate and replay our Rs try to determine when and why she turned,why she didn't say anything,why she didn't break up without cheating,why she jumped straight into another Rs with a man a knew...

She said the day we broke prior to my knowledge of her cheating that she was dissapointed in herself and did not know what is wrong with her and yet took no time out or discussed her dissapointmemt with me that day...

@50 I'll need another year or 2 to put this behind me I'll be almost mid 50 and still single not the life I had dreamed of I want what my family and friends have an equal partner in love and life but I've lost hope I'll ever find her