what if you really are horrible?

[whitebackatcha]

I understand how if you don't love yourself, you will end up with people who aren't good for you. What of you learn to love yourself, but it turns out you actually are a horrible person, and so nobody wants you? What if some of us really did kind of deserve how our pwBPD treated us? 

I feel like this sounds like an insincere question, but I'm honestly trying to figure it out.

[EaglesJuju]

What of you learn to love yourself, but it turns out you actually are a horrible person, and so nobody wants you? What if some of us really did kind of deserve how our pwBPD treated us? 

I understand why you would ask this question and feel this way.  It is really tough when you are feeling horrible about yourself. 

I have experienced this too and I recall that you have some similar traits as I do. 

Depression and low self esteem go hand in hand. When you feel depressed, your thoughts represent a negative view of the world. Your emotions result as a way that you perceive things. When you are depressed or have low self esteem, it is common to have distorted views. We can emotionally reason that our depressive thoughts represent the way things really are. I feel horrible, therefore it must be true that I am horrible. Or we can disqualify any positive trait about ourselves and personalize another person's behavior and take responsibility for being the cause of it. When we engage in distorted thinking, we can become our own worst enemy. We begin to believe these negative automatic thoughts and feelings, we end up reinforcing them in a vicious cycle.

Breaking away from distorted thinking and changing the way we think with balancing logic and emotion is important. For example, you want to change the distorted thinking with a rational response. For example, no person is completely horrible. There are redeeming or 'good' qualities in everyone. Ask your self these questions: What makes a person horrible? What are the characteristics of a horrible person? Why should you feel like you deserve to be treated poorly?

[whitebackatcha]

Breaking away from distorted thinking and changing the way we think with balancing logic and emotion is important. For example, you want to change the distorted thinking with a rational response. For example, no person is completely horrible. There are redeeming or 'good' qualities in everyone. Ask your self these questions: What makes a person horrible? What are the characteristics of a horrible person? Why should you feel like you deserve to be treated poorly?

This is an excellent idea. I feel like it is easy for someone to tell you you are loveable when they aren't in an emotionally intimate relationship with you, because they haven't triggered that difficult side we all have. Also, I feel like nobody would ever be comfortable admitting if you were awful, even if it were true.

A list is a great idea. Logic is exactly what I want.

Almost every important person in my life had done this to me, 3/5 individuals, two from adulthood. The patterns are disturbing. I don't personally believe anyone doesn't deserve love, or that there is such a thing as a bad person (only bad actions),but I seem to have a lot of beliefs like that that most people don't seem to share. 

[Lucky Jim]

What of you learn to love yourself, but it turns out you actually are a horrible person, and so nobody wants you? What if some of us really did kind of deserve how our pwBPD treated us? 

Hey whiteback, I recognize this line of thinking, because I've done it myself.  It's easy to buy into what a pwBPD says about us, which is usually that we deserve to be blamed and are the cause of all their unhappiness, or some variation thereof.  To get this message across, a pwBPD might employ F-O-G (fear, obligation and/or guilt) to make sure the spear nails us to the wall.  It's not pretty when we allow it to happen, as I did.  Our task, I would suggest, is not to buy into this type of distorted thinking; instead, it calls for listening to one's own gut feelings.  Your gut will tell you: Of course you're not a horrible person.  And neither are you, whiteback.

LuckyJim

[EaglesJuju]

This is an excellent idea. I feel like it is easy for someone to tell you you are loveable when they aren't in an emotionally intimate relationship with you, because they haven't triggered that difficult side we all have. Also, I feel like nobody would ever be comfortable admitting if you were awful, even if it were true.

A list is a great idea. Logic is exactly what I want.

Almost every important person in my life had done this to me, 3/5 individuals, two from adulthood. The patterns are disturbing. I don't personally believe anyone doesn't deserve love, or that there is such a thing as a bad person (only bad actions),but I seem to have a lot of beliefs like that that most people don't seem to share. 

The feelings of being not good enough, horrible, and unlovable tend to come from childhood.

For me, it stemmed from the important people in my life. I have had the tendency to garner my self-esteem through the behavior of other people. Essentially, when they acted in a way that was off putting or invalidating, I internalized that and took personal responsibility for their behavior. I felt guilty and horrible about myself, because I believed everything was my fault. It had to be my fault because I felt horribly. That type of thinking is illogical.

Thinking rationally I  know I am not responsible for anyone's behavior. I know that they have a choice to act the way they do. I know that just because someone does something hurtful, it is does not mean I should overgeneralize and think I am a horrible person.

What types of patterns are you noticing? 

[whitebackatcha]

For me, it stemmed from the important people in my life. I have had the tendency to garner my self-esteem through the behavior of other people. Essentially, when they acted in a way that was off putting or invalidating, I internalized that and took personal responsibility for their behavior. I felt guilty and horrible about myself, because I believed everything was my fault. It had to be my fault because I felt horribly. That type of thinking is illogical.

Thinking rationally I  know I am not responsible for anyone's behavior. I know that they have a choice to act the way they do. I know that just because someone does something hurtful, it is does not mean I should overgeneralize and think I am a horrible person.

What types of patterns are you noticing? 

Yes, that is exactly my experience. Because of being abandoned by BPDex, I'm on even higher alert to every little thing with people. It's miserable.

See, but how can you know you aren't responsible? Some people sure seem to think I am. And I can see how my actions preceeded their behaviors... .

I read like a codependency book. My mom and my ex were both the type to get irritated or angry unexpectedly. I tried to adapt, but it was never enough. In another significant relationship, they were more passive, but ended up having multiple affairs. I cam see how I was difficult to live with (truly), and feel like I caused them to be unhappy enough to do that. I make everyone leave, either physically or emotionally. I'm not worth staying for because my good apparently doesn't outweigh my bad, even while I forgive anything and everything. And yes, I read that part in the codependency literature, so I know that is typical.

[EaglesJuju]

See, but how can you know you aren't responsible? Some people sure seem to think I am. And I can see how my actions preceeded their behaviors... .

This was tough for me to learn. You said you like lists of logic, answer these questions and see what type of response you get.

Are you telepathic?

Can you actually make someone behave in a certain way?

Can you actually make someone think a certain thought?

It is easy for people to think that you are responsible for their behavior, when you take responsibility for it. It is hard to think differently, when that is something you have done and felt for a very long time. 

This does not mean that you are not responsible for anything. You are only responsible for your own behavior and thoughts. How they react to your behavior is on them.

I read like a codependency book. My mom and my ex were both the type to get irritated or angry unexpectedly. I tried to adapt, but it was never enough. In another significant relationship, they were more passive, but ended up having multiple affairs. I cam see how I was difficult to live with (truly), and feel like I caused them to be unhappy enough to do that. I make everyone leave, either physically or emotionally. I'm not worth staying for because my good apparently doesn't outweigh my bad, even while I forgive anything and everything. And yes, I read that part in the codependency literature, so I know that is typical.

You are so used to the uncertainty of irritation and anger, you would do anything to appease them. So you constantly keep giving up more of yourself in order to ensure that they will never leave you. The more of yourself you give up, the more boundaries become non existent. The more you are self-sacrificing and appeasing the more your self-esteem plummets. Since you get your self esteem from them and if they abandon you, then that must mean that you are not good enough and you made them leave. I completely understand how painful this cycle is.   

I know it is difficult to think this, but have you ever thought about the responsibility of their behavior. Why shouldn't they be responsible for abandoning you?  What if they were not good enough to stay with you? What if they were difficult to live with and their own issues caused them to leave?

Don't be ashamed about codependency, you are in good company, there are many here that are codependents. 

[eeks]

I know it is difficult to think this, but have you ever thought about the responsibility of their behavior. Why shouldn't they be responsible for abandoning you?  What if they were not good enough to stay with you? What if they were difficult to live with and their own issues caused them to leave?

Thank you for this.  Really thought provoking.

I downloaded Windows 10 and now, with my fingers on the keyboard sometimes brushing the touch pad or inadvertently pressing other combinations of keys, I just highlighted and deleted a detailed post in response to it. 

In summary:  asking oneself the question, whether you were the scapegoat in any way in your family of origin?  I suspect that this is connected to co-dependency, and feeling responsible for other people's feelings.  I think co-dependency can also come from having been a "parentified" child (addicted parent or large family where the eldest has to take care of the younger children), but that's not the only way.  What they would have in common is that an adult burden is put on a child. 

Incidentally, both uBPDex and former friend were literally scapegoats for their parents' marital problems (dad abused them instead of mom).  For me it was more subtle, "something in the water", subtle but repeated over and over.

My father held me to a standard of, well, basically, perfect obedience (when I didn't, he withdrew emotionally but kept doing the practical stuff).  My mother did not hold me to a standard of perfection, but she assumed the rest of the world would.  In connection with that, I also got a lot of "submissive woman training" ("know your place", do not advocate for yourself when there is injustice) which she did not intend, but it came out under stress because she had not healed/resolved this in herself.

Say what you like about the scientific validity of astrology, but my planets are mostly in Leo, Scorpio and Sagittarius.  If you wanted a sweet demure little flower you conceived at the wrong time!    I'm genuinely kind, I have a "live and let live" attitude, but I am now starting to see pretty convincing evidence that it was this constant... .not letting me exercise my power in interpersonal relations.

So they could blame me for being "rude", minor things, really tame in terms of the average teenager, essentially dumping what I'll call "their feelings about dissatisfaction with life" into me.  A distraction, that they can point at and say "oh, isn't that awful? why can't she just do everything right?" rather than facing their own pain.  It happened more often when I tried to assert my autonomy or talk about what I wanted.

My therapist said my family used me as a "lightning rod", the technical term is projective identification.  When he said lightning rod, channelling unacceptable feelings into me, that reminded me of scapegoating.

[eeks]

I read like a codependency book. My mom and my ex were both the type to get irritated or angry unexpectedly. I tried to adapt, but it was never enough. In another significant relationship, they were more passive, but ended up having multiple affairs. I cam see how I was difficult to live with (truly), and feel like I caused them to be unhappy enough to do that. I make everyone leave, either physically or emotionally. I'm not worth staying for because my good apparently doesn't outweigh my bad, even while I forgive anything and everything. And yes, I read that part in the codependency literature, so I know that is typical.

Do you see the double standard here?  It is so familiar to me, because of my upbringing, I was expected to empathize with everyone else, even if they didn't empathize with me (even just what they call "cognitive empathy", understanding my perspective/where I'm coming from)

I just talked about this with my mother recently.  She reminded me of the time she was visiting me and I told her after we'd sat down on the streetcar and it had travelled about a block to "go get a transfer".  It didn't occur to me that she didn't know that you don't just take a transfer off the pad of paper transfers, you ask the driver.  The streetcar driver (big, muscular bald guy) got angry at her because she went and took a transfer off the pad while the vehicle was already moving (you are also supposed to get it when you board, but usually if you tell them you forgot, they'll give you one.)  He was treating her as though she'd personally offended him.  Well, I went fearless.  Regardless of recent realizations in therapy, my mother and I had a close relationship, and he was hurting someone I care about.  I said "She's not from here, she doesn't know!"  This guy was just not listening.  I kept repeating/defending my points vigorously but he just would not acknowledge anything.

At the time, my mom was crying.  She felt terrible.  So in this recent discussion, to try to point out how insensitive her treatment of me as a teenager had been, I said to her, about this streetcar incident, "you were shocked, it was out of the blue" "Yes" "and you felt really bad, you felt hurt" "yes"  "Now imagine at that point I had rushed up and sternly told you you were rude and needed to apologize, you'd have felt even worse right?" "yeah" "you'd have felt like it was your fault?"  "yeah"  "Well that's what you did to me when I was a teenager!"

But you see, even now I would not be able to advocate that way for myself, the way I did for her, because I was so repeatedly prohibited from doing so (told I was in the wrong). 

My point here is, you deserved someone to advocate for you, and so did I.  Although, maybe it is more accurate to say that your mother had the privilege of blaming you for her feelings, because you were small and dependent on her.  (and we know that pwBPD tend to blame others for their feelings)

[whitebackatcha]

You are so used to the uncertainty of irritation and anger, you would do anything to appease them. So you constantly keep giving up more of yourself in order to ensure that they will never leave you. The more of yourself you give up, the more boundaries become non existent. The more you are self-sacrificing and appeasing the more your self-esteem plummets. Since you get your self esteem from them and if they abandon you, then that must mean that you are not good enough and you made them leave. I completely understand how painful this cycle is.   

This was how I felt in my relationship with BPDex. I'd try to assert myself, she would get angry, and I would wonder if I was being unreasonable. The problem is, sometimes I probably WAS, I just never knew how to tell. It was so stressful.

I've been watching videos on how children with narcissistic parents learn to appease their parents, because if their parents were happy, they were more likely to get their needs met. That really resonated with me. That's how I feel now. I just want people to be happy so I can feel okay, but it never works. I understand that I'm supposed to learn how to be happy on my own, but I'm just starting this part of the journey, and it feels almost impossible. I'm an empath. I am very tuned into other people's feelings. That isn't going to go away. Can I only be with cheerful people then? That seems limiting, and honestly, I really appreciate someone who is comfortable with the dark side of life.

As for your other questions, honestly? I think, well, I don't care, I just want things to be okay. If they aren't going to do it, it's apparently on me. I can't control them, but I have to try or it won't happen. Ugh.

[whitebackatcha]

And why aren't they responsible for abandoning me? Because I deserved it. That's how I feel. So yes, like you said, it's hard for me to view it a different way.

I tried really hard in my relationship with BPDex, harder than I've ever tried. I was in love with her, and had never been in love before, not even within marriage. She didn't have anyone like that in her life. She didn't have anyone loyal and passionate like me. I'm not trying to be a broken record, I'm sorry. I don't have skills or hobbies or interests to entice people. I only have love and loyalty to offer. And it wasn't enough. She had such a hard time letting people in. She let me in, and I couldn't be enough to make her want to keep me. I wasn't even good enough for the "crazy" person. It is beyond me how I could them hope to be good enough for someone stable and loving.

[whitebackatcha]

Eeks, my mom once acted like I had started doing drugs ("You've changed... ." when I cut and dyed my hair red, not even a weird color. I was in COLLEGE. I put on heavy, black eyeliner once in high school, and she said, "Why are you doing this to me?" Everything I did wrong, I should have known better, I should have tried harder.

[whitebackatcha]

Eeks, for your second post, BPDex once told me, when I said certain things made me feel insecure, that my baggage wasn't her problem. This seemed logical, except I felt like I was constantly trying to adapt to her baggage. I don't know.

[EaglesJuju]

I've been watching videos on how children with narcissistic parents learn to appease their parents, because if their parents were happy, they were more likely to get their needs met. That really resonated with me. That's how I feel now.

Do your parents have narcissistic traits?

I just want people to be happy so I can feel okay, but it never works. I understand that I'm supposed to learn how to be happy on my own, but I'm just starting this part of the journey, and it feels almost impossible.

It is really hard and it can feel impossible, but give yourself a pat on the back. You are trying to change something that you have done for a very long time. From my experience, the worse I felt, the more I knew I was making positive changes.  

I'm an empath. I am very tuned into other people's feelings. That isn't going to go away. Can I only be with cheerful people then? That seems limiting, and honestly, I really appreciate someone who is comfortable with the dark side of life.

Mindfulness helps with this and so do boundaries. I do not think that you would have to limit to whom you can be with. If other's feelings, emotions, or energies are too draining or you become overwhelmed by them, the best thing to do is give yourself a little bit of space so you can recharge in a way.

And why aren't they responsible for abandoning me? Because I deserved it. That's how I feel. So yes, like you said, it's hard for me to view it a different way.

I understand the feeling that you deserved it. That is something that I have been working on for a very long time. It can feel even worse when you are feeling depressed too.

What specifically makes you think that you deserve abandonment?

I tried really hard in my relationship with BPDex, harder than I've ever tried. I was in love with her, and had never been in love before, not even within marriage. She didn't have anyone like that in her life. She didn't have anyone loyal and passionate like me. I'm not trying to be a broken record, I'm sorry. I don't have skills or hobbies or interests to entice people. I only have love and loyalty to offer. And it wasn't enough. She had such a hard time letting people in. She let me in, and I couldn't be enough to make her want to keep me. I wasn't even good enough for the "crazy" person. It is beyond me how I could them hope to be good enough for someone stable and loving.

From what you wrote I went ahead and bolded two of the many positive qualities that you have. It can be easy to forget or overlook some of our attributes when we are feeling down. Loyalty, love, passion are wonderful qualities  that encapsulate who you are. These qualities are not commonplace and found in everyone. Also, you have an unique and rare gift, you are an empath. Have you ever explored that quality and used it to help someone?  

For a person who suffers from BPD, they almost set you up to fail with their expectations. My pwBPD has told me that he knows I would do anything for him and give him the world if I could, but it will never be enough. The reason why it will never be enough, is not because of me, it is his problem. He has told me that he is like a black hole that sucks up energy and never feels full, only emptiness. Although he has told me this many times, I had a hard time taking it face value. He is right though, nothing is good enough for someone who suffers from BPD.

Perhaps someone stable and loving will be able to fully appreciate your loyalty, love, and passion. Perhaps the next person will be able to reciprocate your qualities and be able to show you the support you have given others.

[eeks]

Eeks, for your second post, BPDex once told me, when I said certain things made me feel insecure, that my baggage wasn't her problem. This seemed logical, except I felt like I was constantly trying to adapt to her baggage. I don't know.

I'm more and more intrigued by this concept of "projective identification".  The websites describing it I find confusing, but I think of it as "I don't want to 'hold' this issue/trait/behaviour/feeling, so I'm going to force you to hold it for me!"  Kind of like someone "quarantining" their "bad stuff" (intolerable feelings) in someone else.  

Because of that, "logic", for the co-dependent, can be a difficult thing to sort through.  Normal, healthy sounding concepts like compassion or empathy for others, forgiveness and tolerance, "each person in a relationship is responsible for their own feelings" are so at risk of being translated through the co-dependent's filter of... .well, co-dependency.  You may have been held responsible for your parents' feelings in a way that was not based on truth, but like I said before, you didn't really have a choice, you were small and dependent on them.

My mother has some flawless-sounding "logic" for why she has to do things the way she does, but on further investigation by me, a lot of her ideas about ethics and caring for others have co-dependent roots.  :)oing the right thing for the right reasons, vs. doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I read an excellent book called If You Had Controlling Parents by Dan Neuharth, Ph.D.  If your mother got upset about something as insignificant as dyed red hair, when you were as old as college age, you may relate to this book.  I'm finally starting to see how, in my parents' overcontrol of some aspects of my life, I was "recruited" to resolve some issue for them, them trying to control/manipulate me into achieving something they were never able to achieve... .specifically, making life feel ok... .resolving their unresolved trauma.

So I think part of the process has to be something like, first discerning and separating out what is "me" from what is their unresolved emotional issues that they tried to foist onto me.

[whitebackatcha]

My phone makes it too tedious to multiquote, sorry!

EaglesJuju,

Yes, my mom was an alcoholic with likely bipolar disorder. The more I've read about BPD, I've realized she had NPD (I feel I didn't know her well enough in adulthood to know if it was BPD). It was just her and me growing up, so there was rarely even a buffer.

I try to remember that change takes time, but I find I am very hard on myself when I'm not perfect. The fact that I still feel nausea and anxiety after five weeks because BPDex isn't here, especially when the relationship was obviously unhealthy, seems ridiculous, like I must not be trying hard enough. Part of it is that I haven't moved on because I know I would recycle if given the chance. This is a fact. That said, in my clearer moments, I know that the fact that I "need" her to be happy is a huge reason there were so many problems in the relationship in the first place. Even if I recycle, I sure as h*ll don't want to go back to doing things how I did before. I have to learn to meet my needs myself. That will benefit me with or without her.

Honestly, I feel I deserve abandonment because I keep being abandoned. It happens, so it must be true. And I'm NOT perfect, I can be stubborn and intense, and I know that can wear people out.

I used to try and help people quite a bit... .whether they wanted help or not.   I'm trying not to do that anymore. Also, I'm just tired from my own life, and don't feel I have anything to give right now.

All the hurtful people in my life came to me with deep pits of hurt. I thought I could heal them. Then, when I couldn't, I think I just tried harder, because *I* needed them to be healthier or I would have to start over. It starts out caring, but the denial is driven by my own issues. I once told my BPDex that I tried to learn and follow all her rules to keep her happy, but it didn't work. She said, "There are no set rules. What I want changes from day to day. I don't even understand it myself." What do you do when someone gets upset about something, you purposely don't do it the next time, and they are specifically upset that next time because you didn't do the thing that upset them before?

[whitebackatcha]

I'm more and more intrigued by this concept of "projective identification".  The websites describing it I find confusing, but I think of it as "I don't want to 'hold' this issue/trait/behaviour/feeling, so I'm going to force you to hold it for me!"  Kind of like someone "quarantining" their "bad stuff" (intolerable feelings) in someone else.  

... .

My mother has some flawless-sounding "logic" for why she has to do things the way she does, but on further investigation by me, a lot of her ideas about ethics and caring for others have co-dependent roots.  :)oing the right thing for the right reasons, vs. doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

To the first, I keep thinking about this when I think of how she told me I "kept hurting her." Did I hurt her because I thought she meant herself in the narcissism article she sent me, even though I disagreed? Or was she scared of not being good enough for me because deep down, she knew it might apply to her?

Logic, oh my gosh. This isn't exactly what you were saying, but my mom (and ex, to a lesser extent) could turn ANYTHING into somehow being my fault, and she ALWAYS made sense. It was a true talent.  

I'll have to check out that book, it sounds applicable to me. I'm also wanting to read The Human Magnet Syndrome.

[Visitor]

I understand how if you don't love yourself, you will end up with people who aren't good for you. What of you learn to love yourself, but it turns out you actually are a horrible person, and so nobody wants you? What if some of us really did kind of deserve how our pwBPD treated us? 

I feel like this sounds like an insincere question, but I'm honestly trying to figure it out.

What did you really do that was that “bad” in the relationship?

[eeks]

To the first, I keep thinking about this when I think of how she told me I "kept hurting her." Did I hurt her because I thought she meant herself in the narcissism article she sent me, even though I disagreed? Or was she scared of not being good enough for me because deep down, she knew it might apply to her?

Logic, oh my gosh. This isn't exactly what you were saying, but my mom (and ex, to a lesser extent) could turn ANYTHING into somehow being my fault, and she ALWAYS made sense. It was a true talent.  

I was just thinking about a recent disagreement with a friend.  The thought that bubbled up was "I have to make him love me or else I'm screwed"  (in other words, I will have no one else)

Well that's true about the parents, to a child, isn't it?  Sure, maybe I got positive responses from others (as I have recently as an adult as well)  but if my parents didn't love me, I had no one else!  

I've been wondering what the "snag" is, why I can't just take the positive qualities in me I can objectively see and run with them. I think this might be it.

For me it shows up as a state of anxiety, feeling as though my behaviours/traits/emotions were not acceptable to my parents.  Not all, of course, but some crucial ones.

And the thing is, I think that type of parenting comes from the parent's own dissatisfaction with life (leading the child to conclude, with the reasoning and developmental capacities they have at the time, "I must be horrible".)  I have to assume that this type of belief similar to the ones you describe, of "I am a nuisance, I hurt people, I'm a pain to live with" etc. etc. comes from that.

The hardest thing for me to realize (still working on it) has been that, I don't have to please people like that, and secondly more importantly... .I CAN'T.

If someone on a basic level is dissatisfied with life, is bitter and holds onto that and hasn't processed their (grief, loss of innocence and perhaps reclaiming it in a different form after grieving, etc.) and takes it out on other people... .there's nothing I can do to make that person happy.

And there was nothing you could have done to "make" your mother happy, no matter how much she claimed (and maybe actually convinced herself) it was your fault!

[SGraham]

I understand how if you don't love yourself, you will end up with people who aren't good for you. What of you learn to love yourself, but it turns out you actually are a horrible person, and so nobody wants you? What if some of us really did kind of deserve how our pwBPD treated us? 

I feel like this sounds like an insincere question, but I'm honestly trying to figure it out.

Yeah i get where you are coming from whitebackatcha, i too struggle with thoughts like that. Haha i developed a pretty creative way to combat that thou. You see i write lyrics to various songs and m working on, usually rap, and whenever i get thoughts like that i manifest them and exaggerate them through lyrics to create basically an alter ego an then i compare my actual self to that character and then i go "you know what im actually a pretty decent guy".

[Tangy]

I notice its been a little while since this thread has been posted on, but I thought I would reply for what it is worth.

I have struggled with this thought at times. The one thing that has saved me, is that I have many friends who have loved me and shown up for me consistently. One of my friends, I have had since we were toddlers and we've never had a falling out. I do have flaws and I am keenly aware of them. But if I were truly horrible, how could I maintain these relationships. Why would anyone want to be close to me. Contrast with him, where he isn't close to anyone, and in the words of someone close to him, "He's just hard to like" It was hard for me to hear that from that person because I loved him so much... .and while I knew it was true... .I always tried to see deeper inside of him.

So, is there anyone in your life that you can use as a model to reflect back to you your goodness?

[Lucky Jim]

Agree w/that, Tangy.  I have some old friends from childhood and college, too, who remain close.  They don't think I'm horrible!  In fact, no one does except my Ex.  I have my shortcomings, too, but I'm not the axe murderer my Ex describes!     LJ

[Beach_Babe]

Personally I know what I did to my ex was unforgivable, and he had no choice but to leave. Thats not to say I am a bad person, but my behavior was such I know I do not deserve another chance. He is gone, and I live with the guilt everyday. The only thing I can do is try to fix myself so it doesn't happen with someone else.

[whitebackatcha]

I notice its been a little while since this thread has been posted on, but I thought I would reply for what it is worth.

I have struggled with this thought at times. The one thing that has saved me, is that I have many friends who have loved me and shown up for me consistently. One of my friends, I have had since we were toddlers and we've never had a falling out. I do have flaws and I am keenly aware of them. But if I were truly horrible, how could I maintain these relationships. Why would anyone want to be close to me. Contrast with him, where he isn't close to anyone, and in the words of someone close to him, "He's just hard to like" It was hard for me to hear that from that person because I loved him so much... .and while I knew it was true... .I always tried to see deeper inside of him.

So, is there anyone in your life that you can use as a model to reflect back to you your goodness?

I haven't been on the boards for awhile because I've been trying to heal and process in other ways. Yes, that sounds just like my ex. She kept everyone at arm's length. She was easy to like there, but very difficult to get along with if you got close to her. I always tried to look deeper as well. It was part of what I got out of it, in fact, that I was "special" enough that I could hand her.

None of my friends are like her. None of them get upset at me over things like asking a question because I forgot I had already been told earlier. I'm in a much better place now than I was when I started this thread. I don't believe I'm so special that I deserve excellent treatment, but I can accept that human beings in general don't deserve to be treated the way she treated me.

Thanks for the encouraging words.

[Freeatlast_1]

whitebackatcha

We all have our faults and dark side. People get sad, mad, angry, sometimes irrational and that can be pointed out. In fact my ex pointed out a lot of issues in me that I knew I had, which made me me. That is just my character, I have softened the edges but I don't plan on losing who I am. Now when it comes to my ex it was not that she was sad/mad/angry/or irrational... .she was just crazy, her ranges were bazar. She would punch walls, my car, bleed herself and send me a pic and she was truly hurting most of the time. I never discredited her emotions, but they were exaggerated. Normal people don't get triggered by the slightest thing. My ex got triggered once when my car alarm went off, she was outside the restaurant smoking, and it me 15 seconds to figure out that was my car and push the unlock botton. She stormed in the restaurant with eyes wide open, running to me screaming "how did you not hear this! give me the key!". So yes, they might be right about minor things they said about you, of course most are confabulated to exert shame/blame/guilt.