Nearly recycled

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi. Need a vent. So after contact three times over the last week and a half, including a long day in her company at the weekend, I found myself back in a situation where I was having to choose what to do again. I had a visit last night and whilst on the one hand it was amazing seeing her, i found I couldn't believe a word she was saying. About anything. Every time she checked her phone I had a mild panic attack. As the night wore on she could tell how jumpy I was and said she couldn't be in a relationship with me if it was goin to be like this. Then she started to say how things with her current bf had picked up this week after earlier in the evening saying how she'd cut contact with him since the weekend because of her feelings for me. I think what's happened is that she's had a rough spell and was just checking out whether I would take her back. Anyway, she left, with us agreein we cared but it couldn't work and we would limit / cut contact. But before she's even left the drive she's texting, sorry, it's not ok, she wished she'd stayed. Then more texts when she gets home, which I fielded the best I could. She had a big today, starting therapy (allegedly) so I wished her well this morning. What have I heard since? Bugger all. Why do I fall for it every time? I keep being nice and I get nothing back unless she is getting what she wants. Yet I she gets me on the phone, or I see her, she hasn't even completed her first sentence an I'm hers. What is actually wrong with me that I keep letting her back in even though my body screams at me, whenever she is near, to get away (I'm assuming that's why I virtually have panic stacks whenever I'm in her company). Actually, the only time that felt genuine last night was when she broke down when I asked about her therapy. Her crying, and me cuddling her, is the only time I felt what was happening was genuine.

[Remiman]

Hi. Need a vent. So after contact three times over the last week and a half, including a long day in her company at the weekend, I found myself back in a situation where I was having to choose what to do again. I had a visit last night and whilst on the one hand it was amazing seeing her, i found I couldn't believe a word she was saying. About anything. Every time she checked her phone I had a mild panic attack. As the night wore on she could tell how jumpy I was and said she couldn't be in a relationship with me if it was goin to be like this. Then she started to say how things with her current bf had picked up this week after earlier in the evening saying how she'd cut contact with him since the weekend because of her feelings for me. I think what's happened is that she's had a rough spell and was just checking out whether I would take her back. Anyway, she left, with us agreein we cared but it couldn't work and we would limit / cut contact. But before she's even left the drive she's texting, sorry, it's not ok, she wished she'd stayed. Then more texts when she gets home, which I fielded the best I could. She had a big today, starting therapy (allegedly) so I wished her well this morning. What have I heard since? Bugger all. Why do I fall for it every time? I keep being nice and I get nothing back unless she is getting what she wants. Yet I she gets me on the phone, or I see her, she hasn't even completed her first sentence an I'm hers. What is actually wrong with me that I keep letting her back in even though my body screams at me, whenever she is near, to get away (I'm assuming that's why I virtually have panic stacks whenever I'm in her company). Actually, the only time that felt genuine last night was when she broke down when I asked about her therapy. Her crying, and me cuddling her, is the only time I felt what was happening was genuine.

[Darsha500]

Close call,

That reminds me of one my last interactions with my ex. I too had gotten to the point where anything she did made me jumpy - makes sense considering the utter unpredictability of their behavior. In the instance I'm thinking about particularly though, she was looking at me with her adoring eye's. Normally I would have peered back into them, mirroring her love. But this time, the only thing i could feel was distrust. My look reflected this and she picked up on it, asking, "What? Am i not allowed to look at your like that?" Rather than being honest, which I learned early on to avoid, lest I upset her, I said, "No, I love when you look at me like that." But what I was thinking was, "But I hate that those eyes will surely transform into eyes of disdain, just as surely as night follows day."

I feel for you Remiman, I know how strong the pull is to reconnect. Thats why I've opted to go NC. Its been a long time coming, but I finally decided to listen to my body, to listen to my heart, and run like hell. Though I am going through the pain of separation now, I believe that ultimately I am acting in my own best interest.

[Remiman]

Close call,

That reminds me of one my last interactions with my ex. I too had gotten to the point where anything she did made me jumpy - makes sense considering the utter unpredictability of their behavior. In the instance I'm thinking about particularly though, she was looking at me with her adoring eye's. Normally I would have peered back into them, mirroring her love. But this time, the only thing i could feel was distrust. My look reflected this and she picked up on it, asking, "What? Am i not allowed to look at your like that?" Rather than being honest, which I learned early on to avoid, lest I upset her, I said, "No, I love when you look at me like that." But what I was thinking was, "But I hate that those eyes will surely transform into eyes of disdain, just as surely as night follows day."

I feel for you Remiman, I know how strong the pull is to reconnect. Thats why I've opted to go NC. Its been a long time coming, but I finally decided to listen to my body, to listen to my heart, and run like hell. Though I am going through the pain of separation now, I believe that ultimately I am acting in my own best interest.

Thanks Darsha. I just don't understand myself. We were texting 5 mins ago and I was trying to get her to come down. I feel like there is a wee guy on my shoulder screaming "what the he are you doing? "

[Darsha500]

I like to call that voice my intuition or conscious. Learning to trust that voice has been one of  the greatest accomplishments of my life. It's something I had to work out in therapy. Defying my intuition, I come up empty handed. While in my relationship I was constantly going against the grain of my intuition. When I put faith in my intuition, things tend to work out better for me. There's even this book I've been wanting to read called the hearts code that talks about how the heart is a brain in itself.

[Remiman]

I like to call that voice my intuition or conscious. Learning to trust that voice has been one of  the greatest accomplishments of my life. It's something I had to work out in therapy. Defying my intuition, I come up empty handed. While in my relationship I was constantly going against the grain of my intuition. When I put faith in my intuition, things tend to work out better for me. There's even this book I've been wanting to read called the hearts code that talks about how the heart is a brain in itself.

The thing is I know. I know my body is telling me. I know I had to work hard to bury things during our time together. I know that is not right. I think I was trying so hard tonight because I am drunk so my inhibitions are shot but if I'm honest I also enjoyed just throwing caution to the wind and saying "you know what, I'm going to call your bluff. I know your not going to come down, but I'm gonna make it as difficult for YOU tonight!" Childish I know. And I'll feel dirty tomorrow, but for now, as she is want to say to cover her actions - YOLO!

[Remiman]

I like to call that voice my intuition or conscious. Learning to trust that voice has been one of  the greatest accomplishments of my life. It's something I had to work out in therapy. Defying my intuition, I come up empty handed. While in my relationship I was constantly going against the grain of my intuition. When I put faith in my intuition, things tend to work out better for me. There's even this book I've been wanting to read called the hearts code that talks about how the heart is a brain in itself.

The thing is I know. I know my body is telling me. I know I had to work hard to bury things during our time together. I know that is not right. I think I was trying so hard tonight because I am drunk so my inhibitions are shot but if I'm honest I also enjoyed just throwing caution to the wind and saying "you know what, I'm going to call your bluff. I know your not going to come down, but I'm gonna make it as difficult for YOU tonight!" Childish I know. And I'll feel dirty tomorrow, but for now, as she is want to say to cover her actions - YOLO!

Oh man... .does anyone else hate themselves for what happens?

[Darsha500]

I totally get the whole YOLO mentality. In fact, it was that mentality that got me into my relationship to start with. Right from the get go huge red flags were apparent, but i decided not to let them deter me. My rationale was: I WANT TO LIVE! I want to experience all that my life has to offer me. I want to be there for all the emotions and intensity, even if it ends in tragedy, I'm down. So i bought the roller coaster ticket knowing that what i was getting myself into was risky. But that made it sort of exhilarating. So i get that mentality of, ¨Fck it. lets see what happens¨

One thing i think about when i think of YOLO, though, is that you can take it two ways. You can take it as YOLO, so why not be hedonistic and try to get all the pleasure I can get out of life, even if its detrimental to my well being in the long run. But the other way of taking it is: YOLO, so I better be careful and take care of myself, I better use all due diligence taking care of myself so that I can reach fulfillment.

[Herodias]

I feel the same way... .when he said he wanted his wife and home back, I said... .what about the gf? He said don't you realize I could dump her just like that (snapping his fingers). I was like a deer in headlights! After I don't agree, he starts telling me how "into" each other they are... .I see it as a way of saving face when rejected. Sometime our emails and texts are just fights. i don't give into his demands anymore. I don't feel bad to say no. Then he finds a way to punish me for it. All it does is push me further and further away. He is not happy with who he is with now... .at least I have pleasure in that. I feel happily miserable is the only way I can describe it. I think I became addicted to the drama, so I get bored. I was told to take all I have learned through all this and volunteer somewhere. Even become a PI, That wold give me drama while it's not my own and I would be helping someone else. I have become very good at finding out the truth lately, ... .It is sad to realize that 85% of what I was told was a lie and continues to be. I know I am better off alone and I don't even want a relationship for a while. I just feel lonely sometimes and I miss the few good things about him. Not enough to go back to pure torture and constant drama... .(sigh)

[Remiman]

I feel the same way... .when he said he wanted his wife and home back, I said... .what about the gf? He said don't you realize I could dump her just like that (snapping his fingers). I was like a deer in headlights! After I don't agree, he starts telling me how "into" each other they are... .I see it as a way of saving face when rejected. Sometime our emails and texts are just fights. i don't give into his demands anymore. I don't feel bad to say no. Then he finds a way to punish me for it. All it does is push me further and further away. He is not happy with who he is with now... .at least I have pleasure in that. I feel happily miserable is the only way I can describe it. I think I became addicted to the drama, so I get bored. I was told to take all I have learned through all this and volunteer somewhere. Even become a PI, That wold give me drama while it's not my own and I would be helping someone else. I have become very good at finding out the truth lately, ... .It is sad to realize that 85% of what I was told was a lie and continues to be. I know I am better off alone and I don't even want a relationship for a while. I just feel lonely sometimes and I miss the few good things about him. Not enough to go back to pure torture and constant drama... .(sigh)

I don't want a new relationship either. I couldn't do it. My head is so messed up and all I want is her. But I don't want the relationship. I don't want the drama, the lies, the manipulation, the abuse, the put downs, and if I'm honest there's isnt a lot left from the relationship, so why can't I ignore her?

[TheRealJongoBong]

I feel the same way... .when he said he wanted his wife and home back, I said... .what about the gf? He said don't you realize I could dump her just like that (snapping his fingers). I was like a deer in headlights! After I don't agree, he starts telling me how "into" each other they are... .I see it as a way of saving face when rejected. Sometime our emails and texts are just fights. i don't give into his demands anymore. I don't feel bad to say no. Then he finds a way to punish me for it. All it does is push me further and further away. He is not happy with who he is with now... .at least I have pleasure in that. I feel happily miserable is the only way I can describe it. I think I became addicted to the drama, so I get bored. I was told to take all I have learned through all this and volunteer somewhere. Even become a PI, That wold give me drama while it's not my own and I would be helping someone else. I have become very good at finding out the truth lately, ... .It is sad to realize that 85% of what I was told was a lie and continues to be. I know I am better off alone and I don't even want a relationship for a while. I just feel lonely sometimes and I miss the few good things about him. Not enough to go back to pure torture and constant drama... .(sigh)

I don't want a new relationship either. I couldn't do it. My head is so messed up and all I want is her. But I don't want the relationship. I don't want the drama, the lies, the manipulation, the abuse, the put downs, and if I'm honest there's isnt a lot left from the relationship, so why can't I ignore her?

It's likely because you love the good side of her. I do the same with my uBPD/uNPD wife. I've been recycled so many times this last week I feel like a soda can. She's the most horrible person in the world when she's in the mood and I hate that person. When she's nice I end up eating it up like I'm a starving man. I guess that's the reason. What do they call it, Stockholm syndrome?

[Remiman]

I feel the same way... .when he said he wanted his wife and home back, I said... .what about the gf? He said don't you realize I could dump her just like that (snapping his fingers). I was like a deer in headlights! After I don't agree, he starts telling me how "into" each other they are... .I see it as a way of saving face when rejected. Sometime our emails and texts are just fights. i don't give into his demands anymore. I don't feel bad to say no. Then he finds a way to punish me for it. All it does is push me further and further away. He is not happy with who he is with now... .at least I have pleasure in that. I feel happily miserable is the only way I can describe it. I think I became addicted to the drama, so I get bored. I was told to take all I have learned through all this and volunteer somewhere. Even become a PI, That wold give me drama while it's not my own and I would be helping someone else. I have become very good at finding out the truth lately, ... .It is sad to realize that 85% of what I was told was a lie and continues to be. I know I am better off alone and I don't even want a relationship for a while. I just feel lonely sometimes and I miss the few good things about him. Not enough to go back to pure torture and constant drama... .(sigh)

I don't want a new relationship either. I couldn't do it. My head is so messed up and all I want is her. But I don't want the relationship. I don't want the drama, the lies, the manipulation, the abuse, the put downs, and if I'm honest there's isnt a lot left from the relationship, so why can't I ignore her?

It's likely because you love the good side of her. I do the same with my uBPD/uNPD wife. I've been recycled so many times this last week I feel like a soda can. She's the most horrible person in the world when she's in the mood and I hate that person. When she's nice I end up eating it up like I'm a starving man. I guess that's the reason. What do they call it, Stockholm syndrome?

Yeah. She keeps saying she wants the old us back. But that can't happen. Because although I let myself get sucked back in, I am not the niave person I was the first few months,

[Herodias]

Exactly... .The good is far and few... .I miss the fantasy is all I guess. I like being alone and doing what I want, eating what I want, watching what I want, sleeping when I want, reading if I want, and going where I want... .without being embarrassed, harassed or put down! I don't get why I think of him the minute I get up and all day long wondering what he is doing and if he is acting out with the gf... It is an obsession. Everyone said I need to get real busy. Find an extra job or a hobby... .We were laughing that I would be a great private investigator- getting involved in someone else's drama, not mine! I just can't shake it and don't know why. It wasn't what I thought it was and the reality was horrible and disgusting! No one else would put up with this crap! Maybe that part of it, feeling such low self esteem for having done so. It's time to change, get strong and start fresh! P.S. Mine kept saying he wanted the old us back too. The one at the beginning of the relationship. They crave the honeymoon stage and when it changes, I guess they don't feel the love anymore or something. In that case, they will never be happy. We had the longest honeymoon stage he has ever had... .His new GF and his honeymoon stage is already about over. I stupidly showed him a night like we had in the beginning, showing him it's always been there... .he just had to make an effort. All his running around ruined that for us... .He says "you changed" what changed is him getting used to someone else way of doing things and really- he changed. I am not and refuse to be like that person ever! Low class!

[Remiman]

Nearly sucked in again! Crumbled yesterday when she messaged me then called and we spoke for a bit. Ended up agreeing to meet up tomorrow night. She stopped texting me last night then nothing all day so when I called her out on it she said I was pissing her off with my attitude! Yeah, because I have no right to be angry at her lack of respect. I asked for some honesty and she told me she was with my replacement today and I was making her angry (she'd just told me she had agreed to see me tomorrow so why was I annoyed). Why can't she see how disrespectful she is. Why do I give her another chance to show she can be loving, loyal and respectful? Why will I crumble when she inevitably gets in contact (though I have now blocked what I can). I hate this!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Reniman, my reply doesn't really answer your question about why can't you ignore her, but as I was reading this thread I remembered how much I had to keep secret about my ex.  Things I would never want my family and friends to know.  About his actions with me and about his actions in the world in general.  Calling me a c*nt and telling me to go f*ck myself; engaging in morally questionable/illegal activities to make money... .things I would never want to share with anyone I respected. 

Reniman, good thread.  As I was reading it I was struck with the following. 

Going forward, if I find myself in a r/s about which I cannot be honest with family and friends (barring the normal details kept to oneself, ie intimacy) then I need to exit the r/s.  And fast. 

I need to take a meta-view.  Like looking down on me, him, and the r/s from the clouds.  Look at the WHOLE r/s.  Not just moment-to-moment.  I got swept up in the individual moments.  The great fun we had. The laughter.  The orgasms.  The moments of hell I got so deep in them, dumbstruck, wondering what happened and trying to make it end.  But when I look down on the whole r/s that I am not proud to share with my family and friends then it is time to WALK AWAY. 

Am I proud to share this r/s?  This is a good litmus test for me moving forward.

[Remiman]

I seem to have these brief moments of calm, of clarity, when I recall certain situations and think "honestly Remiman, why the hell are you even giving this woman the time of day, get her tae f**k!"  But within minutes, if not seconds, I've talked myself out of that thinking

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I seem to have these brief moments of calm, of clarity, when I recall certain situations and think "honestly Remiman, why the hell are you even giving this woman the time of day, get her tae f**k!"  But within minutes, if not seconds, I've talked myself out of that thinking

Sorry for my typos/redundancy in my prior post.   Should gave proofread!

I wasn't even willing to tell my therapist everything.   I should have known then that was a FAILED litmus test for sure!

Maybe for ongoing clarity,  you could imagine sitting down w fame or best friend and listing all of the abuse,  I adequacy es,  etc.   Not in a discussion format where you got to defend her, but instead literally reading a list.   

In my case,  for example:

Told me "go f*ck yourself"  (with first two weeks)

Harassed  me for leftover vicodin

Stole $300 w/in first two months

Tried to steal $80

Called his mother a c*nt

Called me a c*not (at very end)

I would be mortified.   The list is endless.   

Should have walked at week 2!

[Remiman]

I think the problem at the moment is she is in a position of strength. She has someone else, she'll text if she can be bothered and is "willing" to come see me whenever she's free (but following through with it is another matter). Whereas I am feeling very weak. I'm lonely, depressed, want the physical side so bad (touch more than sex though I certainly wouldn't say no). It's a much harder dynamic to deal with. When she was desperate, it's still horrible but also a bit easier to be strong and deal with it. 

[nowwhatz]

Hi. Need a vent. So after contact three times over the last week and a half, including a long day in her company at the weekend, I found myself back in a situation where I was having to choose what to do again. I had a visit last night and whilst on the one hand it was amazing seeing her, i found I couldn't believe a word she was saying. About anything. Every time she checked her phone I had a mild panic attack. As the night wore on she could tell how jumpy I was and said she couldn't be in a relationship with me if it was goin to be like this. Then she started to say how things with her current bf had picked up this week after earlier in the evening saying how she'd cut contact with him since the weekend because of her feelings for me. I think what's happened is that she's had a rough spell and was just checking out whether I would take her back. Anyway, she left, with us agreein we cared but it couldn't work and we would limit / cut contact. But before she's even left the drive she's texting, sorry, it's not ok, she wished she'd stayed. Then more texts when she gets home, which I fielded the best I could. She had a big today, starting therapy (allegedly) so I wished her well this morning. What have I heard since? Bugger all. Why do I fall for it every time? I keep being nice and I get nothing back unless she is getting what she wants. Yet I she gets me on the phone, or I see her, she hasn't even completed her first sentence an I'm hers. What is actually wrong with me that I keep letting her back in even though my body screams at me, whenever she is near, to get away (I'm assuming that's why I virtually have panic stacks whenever I'm in her company). Actually, the only time that felt genuine last night was when she broke down when I asked about her therapy. Her crying, and me cuddling her, is the only time I felt what was happening was genuine.

Wow Remiman. it is like you are under attack.  I can't say this enough to all that are facing situations like this... .please don't do what I did and recylcle over and over.  It is so difficult to not be drawn back in by the love bombing, sex and all the other tricks up their sleeves.  You are doing really well. Hang in there and don't let her back in.

[nowwhatz]

I think the problem at the moment is she is in a position of strength. She has someone else, she'll text if she can be bothered and is "willing" to come see me whenever she's free (but following through with it is another matter). Whereas I am feeling very weak. I'm lonely, depressed, want the physical side so bad (touch more than sex though I certainly wouldn't say no). It's a much harder dynamic to deal with. When she was desperate, it's still horrible but also a bit easier to be strong and deal with it. 

Really you are in the position of strength. This is the perfect time to cut her off or go to very limited contact. She is trying to suck you in and you are not letting her do it. Great job!

[Remiman]

Update.

Ok, so after this weekends nonsense I was in a rage. Thought I finally saw through it all, was determined and feeling confident lines had been crossed and I was suitably detached to resist. But today I get a message she's brojen up with my replacement. We talked and unfortunately she seemed very lucid and pragmatic. She was trying to replace me, knows it won't work because she still has feelings for me. It wasn't the same. He's too young (same age as her but I'm 16 years older). I was stand off, we talked about her failed relationship (ouch by the way but I covered it well I think). Anyway finishes with her wanting to meet Friday. Arrghh. Was so close to proper NC this morning and now looking forward to Friday. What gets me is she genuinely thinks she can dump someone today, then organise to see me the same day. I see it. I know it. But I'm going to go through with it. I don't trust her. But want her so bad. In out in out and shake it all about. I do the Hokey Cokey and I turn around. Where the f**k am I?

[rotiroti]

Update.

Ok, so after this weekends nonsense I was in a rage. Thought I finally saw through it all, was determined and feeling confident lines had been crossed and I was suitably detached to resist. But today I get a message she's brojen up with my replacement. We talked and unfortunately she seemed very lucid and pragmatic. She was trying to replace me, knows it won't work because she still has feelings for me. It wasn't the same. He's too young (same age as her but I'm 16 years older). I was stand off, we talked about her failed relationship (ouch by the way but I covered it well I think). Anyway finishes with her wanting to meet Friday. Arrghh. Was so close to proper NC this morning and now looking forward to Friday. What gets me is she genuinely thinks she can dump someone today, then organise to see me the same day. I see it. I know it. But I'm going to go through with it. I don't trust her. But want her so bad. In out in out and shake it all about. I do the Hokey Cokey and I turn around. Where the f**k am I?

Don't be so hard on yourself. Tales of recycles are common for a reason and many of the posters here have gone through them.

Would I recommend it? Absolutely not, but that's me.

This time around you know what to look out for and sometimes we have to be burned twice to be sure of our decisions. Best of luck and keep us posted Remi

[ReclaimingMyLife]

What gets me is she genuinely thinks she can dump someone today, then organise to see me the same day.

I say this with lots of affection and sympathy,  Reniman,  but she thinks this because she actually CAN do this.  She IS doing it.   With you.   Because you are willing.   

[Remiman]

Guys really struggling again. I've met with her a couple of times and both times it reaffirmed to me why we weren't together. The second time she realised herself and left after 30 mins. I cut all contact, blocked everything before she even left my drive. But two days later, she called the house and before I could stop myself I asked her down and we slept together. Now she is stand offish and I'm a mess again. I want to engage so bad I'm getting chest pains but trying to resist chasing. What a mess. I'm actually really starting to hate myself now

[Remiman]

Also, I think what I find hard is that I left her. Although her actions, lying, texting guys, flirting, putting me down, caused me to, she was genuinely shocked and hurt when I ended it. If she'd left me I think I might have found this easier, to put up a "screw you" wall. But then from reading others posts it doesn't seem that way. And having said that, she's done plenty to warrant a screw you wall, maybe I'm just a crappy wall builder.

[rotiroti]

Also, I think what I find hard is that I left her. Although her actions, lying, texting guys, flirting, putting me down, caused me to, she was genuinely shocked and hurt when I ended it. If she'd left me I think I might have found this easier, to put up a "screw you" wall. But then from reading others posts it doesn't seem that way. And having said that, she's done plenty to warrant a screw you wall, maybe I'm just a crappy wall builder.

I tihnk you could reframe it -- you got to hold onto self-dignity and self-respect by walking away first.

AND you have loads of justifications for taking actions that were right for you.

[Remiman]

I can't stop going into chase mode. When she cuts the supply, by stopping trying to contact me, I can't stop myself. I hate it. I hate myself when I give in. I hate myself for sitting here waiting and hurting so bad. I know she must have someone else talking to her otherwise she would be at me. And I can't stand it. But if she contacts me I'm always wiling to forgive and get sucked back in. It's too much. I seriously feel like I'm ready for a break down. I'm on self destruct. Smoking, drinking, - I dont even smoke!