A question about splitting

[shatra]

I was reading about splitting----I understand why they (being at the level of a toddler emotionally seeing things as all black or white)  split.

    I understand why they would split all white (because if a small speck of black or a negative trait is "allowed" in to the person they are idealizing, then with their extreme view, the person would suddenly be seen as all black, which would frighten the BPD.  THey want an all-good mother. So they keep them all white... .

     I am confused about the other side of it---what causes them to split us all black at times?  How would it frighten or harm them to see us as even mostly bad but having a few good traits?  How is it a defense mechanism to see us as all bad instead of 90 percent bad?

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[maxsterling]

My feeling here is that it boils down to a lack of trust.  If they can't trust everything, then they trust nothing. 

Look at the case of my wife, who was raised by a BPD mother who could change moods instantly for seemingly no reason.  Growing up from a young age she probably learned to not trust whatever mood her mother was in.  It was a defense mechanism to always be on the lookout and always keep her guard up.  Carried on to today, and that is still true.  One wrong word or one wrong tone of voice, and that primitive defense mechanism kicks in that says ":)ANGER!"

It may not be the case for all pwBPD, but I think that is where my wife comes from.  Similar to a young child who quickly forms opinions about things and what they like or don't like.  They either like something all the way, or don't like something all the way.  For children, it's not just with people, but with food, games, tv shows... .

[rotiroti]

I believe that's why splitting is defined as one of the immature coping mechanisms. Toddlers use it, and as BPDs are the result of an emotional arrest from age ~2 years old, I think it makes complete sense that they are not able to have the ability to incorporate that people are a combination of both good and bad.

Think about those pwBPD who were abused by their caretakers - mom or dad figures who would provide the much needed love and tenderness and also at times would lash out at them. Roles can be very confusing for them -- so it's easier to define people as either ALL good or ALL bad to make sense of the world.

Also it could also explain the constant shame and guilt that they feel. What do toddlers do when they feel something bad? They blame it on something external, and in our case we can be that scapegoat. It would only make sense to view us as ALL black in order to dump all of the blame onto us... .

if they deemed us as good then it would just confuse the pwBPD more.

There was a story in one of the BPD books where sometimes if a pwBPD is unable to paint someone black to shift the blame, they can even paint themselves black in order to make sense of the situation.

[Lou12]

I believe it's about their actions matching their emotions. So if the BPD is getting overwhelmed, frightened, engulfed, feeling alone, shamed, jealous or a million other this a person feels then they project it onto their partner/friend etc and believe that that person is the root of their pain. My BPD thinks I'm a million horrible things (defo non true) and he really needs to believe that, no because it's true but he needs to match up his mind with the irregularity of his feelings/emotions . I think they can split you a small % black when their emotions are triggering a small %. But when they trigger 100% your split 100% if that makes sense. It's not really about you at all only about how they feel! They need the facts to match the emotions? That's my theory .

[shatra]

Thanks for the feedback

Max wrote

They either like something all the way, or don't like something all the way.

Neveragian, yes,  it is  the defense mechanism that matches the stage they're at---toddlers see the parent as all good or all bad.

Lou,.  I haven't seen or heard that,, that they see us as a small % black... .I have seen the 100% black.

  I understand now the toddler stage... .I am still not understanding how splitting is a defense mechanism re: black. I see how seeing us as all white is a defense (so they don't fear or hate the "good mother", they see her as all good---this protects them from fear or hating the mother.

   But what are they protecting/defending against if they see us as all bad (and not even 90% bad and allowing that we are partly still good)?

[Lou12]

Hi again Shatra, obviously I can only speak for my BPD but I suppose what I meant by the percentages was a scale of how bad they triggered. So when he was in a stage of wanting to idealise me he would trigger a little at something I possibly said because he needed for his own reasons to idealise me at that point so I'd maybe get the silent treatment for a few days. When I was split black 100% he genuinely wanted me out his life because he'd triggered to much and perceived me as trouble he could do without. Not sure how this fits into the black/white scenario but that's how I felt it was for me x

[Lou12]

With regard to your question I perceive they are protecting against engulfment/abandonment but in their mind they don't internalise it as that being the case.

[shatra]

Lou---

  That makes sense---that if he is a bit triggered he splits you black but doens't totally go nuts and leave you, but if he is triggered strongly he reacts worse to the splitting black.

   Engulfment/abandonment---re: the reason they split us all bad (and not only 90%) is so they can avoid feeling as upset wnen they leave because they felt abandoned/engulfed?  If they see us as all black, it doesn't hurt so much when we engulf or abandon them? If they saw us as mostly black but having some good traits, that would hurt, so they split us black to defend against hurt? I'm confused... .

[rotiroti]

I think you got it Shatra!

A pwBPD has difficulty integrating that sense of shame and guilt that they feel. Instead of going through processing it on their own, they tend to project it onto others by splitting them black -- you hear the same story over and over again. How the non becomes the source of everything that is wrong in their lives.

In order to shift this blame, wouldn't you have to paint the target of the projection completely black? To have any semblance of good wouldn't make sense to a pwBPD.

[Lou12]

Not sure I'm 100% following what you mean Shatra sorry but I'll try explaining from my view. I feel the level of a BPDs feelings for you is the level to which they are capable of triggering. Ie if they need you they trigger more with abandonment/engulfment. Engulfment is actually the same as abandonment with BPD in as much as the engulfment scares them into thinking you might abandon them.

Anyways when their emotions become overwhelming for them their instinct is to push you away through fear. They can not seem to comprehend this logic is their mind as it means that their is a defect within them so the rationalise this 'fear' as their being a problem with you. Example... BPD feels a strong emotion, a healthy person would internalise this and fit facts to feelings. A BPD won't internalise it they will project it on to me and say to thrmselves 'I feel fear, that is because Lou is untrustworthy, she can't give me what I need' therefor 'Lou' is split black. BPD has now put a defense mechanism in place! Not because Lou done anything but because BPD made the facts match they emotion.

Is this what you were meaning? X

[shatra]

Neveragain---

    Makes sense.  Projection is one defense mechanism (BP can't accept they are "bad" so they project it out and partner is "bad" and splitting is another defense mechansim (people are all bad or all good).  Defense mechansims protect the person from feelings... .so when the BPD feels upset they may project and split all at once---so that they are not "bad", we are "bad" and we must be split totally bad to avoid confusion... .makes sense, I am still wondering what feeling the splitting black defends them against---is it confusion? 

Lou-- That is along the lines of what I am asking... .yes when they feel engulfed or abandoned, tone of the things they do (along with pushing us away) is split us black... .just wondering how seeing us or the relationship as 100% all black defends them against a feeling, and what is the feeling? When they split us white they defend against fear (i.e.---if they saw as as 90% good, they would fear that 10% "bad" will seep in and overtake/destroy the good parent or good partner, so they defend agsainst fear by splitting us all white

[Lou12]

Ok so I think I know what you mean... .My BPD split me because I was 'to much drama' but I wasn't what he meant was their is to much drama in my head with my emotions. My BPD desperately strives to have a rational mind without triggering so when he was with me he did not get this because he cared about me but he did not want to believe this was his fault so he projected on to me.

They can feel anger, fear, jealousy, untrusting or a million other things it just depends on what they feel. It defends them because they convince themselves they no longer need/want us.

Does this answer any better? X

[Tangy]

Ok so I think I know what you mean... .My BPD split me because I was 'to much drama' but I wasn't what he meant was their is to much drama in my head with my emotions. My BPD desperately strives to have a rational mind without triggering so when he was with me he did not get this because he cared about me but he did not want to believe this was his fault so he projected on to me.

They can feel anger, fear, jealousy, untrusting or a million other things it just depends on what they feel. It defends them because they convince themselves they no longer need/want us.

Does this answer any better? X

I really like the way you explain things

[shatra]

Lou wrote---

(re: splitting us black defends them from a feeling)

It defends them because they convince themselves they no longer need/want us.

====That is a great, clear explanation

[lovers knot]

Lou wrote---

(re: splitting us black defends them from a feeling)

It defends them because they convince themselves they no longer need/want us.

====That is a great, clear explanation

Very clear explanation there, indeed.

I've been split black and have been given the ST/ignore button (you know, the Big Red Button that they Press!) for a while now, tragically, and it's interesting how their value/devalue - black/white - regulation/dysregulation - splitting - etc., goes through a rinse, wash, repeat cycle, often for defense, or manipulation, or for gaining control in some degree.

One thing about the ST that is so harsh is that one is left with a feeling of walking through an Ice Storm, without any form of discernment, communicative balance, just zero to "go by," which is really difficult--not a peep, only crickets, which leaves one feeling completely abandoned (oddly enough--after telling a BPD that the Non won't ever abandon them, even if you've shown only honesty and pure trustable characteristics, etc., there's still that underlying fear there).

I don't think that I've ever in my life thought of 'thoughts' about all of this--this silence, this splitting me to black, this empty, cold, barren landscape that I've been left in--that begin with "I wonder... ." as much as I have since I've been involved with a dear friendship with a pwBPD. It's like, all of the time, one's mental-gears are grinding, and in the essence of trying one's best not to get too emotional, which is personalizing it all, and realizing it is THEM and not the NON (although, in my case, I think that I had a part in her pushing me away, because of my initial ignorance about BPD and my silly behavior, ways of communicating, and perhaps me engulfing her where she wasn't able to 'deal' with it anymore--I've learned my lessons and am hoping for another opportunity to have ANY communication with my friend soon--so far, it's been nothing but Silence of the Lambs for me!), it has been:

"I wonder if _____________"

"I wonder _______________"

"I wonder if she _____________"

"I wonder what would happen if ______________"

"I wonder how long ______________"

and on and on and on, perpetually, it goes. It's a normal human emotion that I cannot stop thinking about; these ponderings, these wonderings, the 'hope' that you keep, and the day-by-day looking at the phone to see if she has texted when you see that someone has texted/called, and you're hoping it is your person with BPD, and it turns out that it isn't, etc., etc. It's just endless. Yes, we have to take care of ourselves; do our thing; have fun; involve ourselves with hobbies or whatever the case may be, etc., but for me, I still cannot help but to wonder if she'll ever snap out of this total silence she has given me.

All of that to say, I've read many stories about how the splitting black can turn to splitting white in a jiffy; and often times they "return" like nothing ever happened.

The whole thing is totally tragic. I don't even think that they realize the pain that giving the ST or ignoring their Non friend or spouse or whomever has on that person. I know that many pBPD have gotten help and later realized the pain that this caused others, and it changed their lives (of those that have overcome the disorder).

Just throwing out thoughts this night. Always glad to read comments and glean more insight... .

[Lou12]

Yes the 'silent treatment'! Possibly one of the worst cruelest things a person can do is ignore you. I am going through the silent treatment right now and my instinct tells me it's going to be a long one or infact a forever one!

Lovers Knot look into trauma bonding, it will explain why your constantly in a state of hyper vigilance over them contacting you.

I've learned that my BPD wants me when he thinks I'm moving on so if I ever want to encourage a recycle I completely go off radar. I also switch off my phone as much as I can so I am not obsessing, it gives me a little bit of control back but my greatest thing I've learned is read read read, take worse scenarios like abandonment and learn to live with them if you want your BPD in your life. It is imperative that you emotionally detach from BPD bahaviour or you'll end up very sick x

[lovers knot]

Yes the 'silent treatment'! Possibly one of the worst cruelest things a person can do is ignore you. I am going through the silent treatment right now and my instinct tells me it's going to be a long one or infact a forever one!

Lovers Knot look into trauma bonding, it will explain why your constantly in a state of hyper vigilance over them contacting you.

I've learned that my BPD wants me when he thinks I'm moving on so if I ever want to encourage a recycle I completely go off radar. I also switch off my phone as much as I can so I am not obsessing, it gives me a little bit of control back but my greatest thing I've learned is read read read, take worse scenarios like abandonment and learn to live with them if you want your BPD in your life. It is imperative that you emotionally detach from BPD bahaviour or you'll end up very sick x

Thank you, Lou! I remember reading your earlier comments and could relate to a lot of what you're also going through with the ST and how detrimental you were feeling, etc. I will definitely look into "trauma bonding." At this point, I've gotten a lot "better" with managing my emotions, not personalizing it as before, but there are those instances where the emotional waves hit the shore of the heart, and then they seep back into nothingness along the oceans of nothingness. Yes, when they see that they assume you've "moved on," this can trigger their abandonment issues! I wonder how often a Non's BPD has clung to someone else for validation to the extent that they feel easier about ignoring and giving the ST to the one that has been split black?

I read where there are SOME pwBPD that absolutely do NOT like to be mirrored with silence in the way that they are giving the silence, which is somewhat narcissistic if you ask me (no surprise that NPD and BPD are close relatives, at least in my limited understanding), but instead they want the attention, they want the endless validation, etc., but in my case, it is difficult to do that when there is really no level of communication whatsoever, so I often feel stuck.

Sometimes I wonder: How long should I allow the silence to continue before I rise like a Phoenix from the torturous flames of silence and make my presence known? Or should I just mirror her silence and continue to give her space until (if?) she breaks the silence (again)?

Staying "mum" is often the best bet, to let the ball stay in their court, but I swear, sometimes I just want to say something--a hint that I do not appreciate being ignored and devalued like a sloppy piece of nasty garbage, or like a rat in an infected alleyway somewhere.

I've read and educated myself immensely since this has happened, and I come "prepared" the next go-around! Like you, I think we both can relate to this in the greatest ways at this particular time, and I'm so grateful that you, and others here, GET IT, and can converse about this. It helps to loosen the chains a bit, you know?

I think one of things that sucks the most is not knowing; not being able to have a platform at all, like the rug being ripped right from under you. It's like they've rubbed out your mouth, completely, to have control, to put up their dukes, to build the Great Wall of China around themselves, and of course, this is all so understandable in the way that they behave, but like you said, disengaging and completely pulling away yourself is the best way to go.

There was an initial cycle of ST for two weeks. Then she broke the silence and came out of it, telling me how she misses me "very much!" and how she feels terrible and wanted to catch up with everything that she "not-so-proudly had missed over that stretch," and sending me pics of the morning glories we planted together in her garden, how she's been swarmed with work (which I feel is an excuse; people are swarmed with work all of the time, but that doesn't mean that they completely ignore and wipe away their friends for weeks on end.)

I could go on and on about this, because there's layers upon layers, but I'll stop there... .

Blessings to you, Lou!

[lovers knot]

Thank you, Lou! I remember reading your earlier comments and could relate to a lot of what you're also going through with the ST and how detrimental you were feeling, etc. I will definitely look into "trauma bonding." At this point, I've gotten a lot "better" with managing my emotions, not personalizing it as before, but there are those instances where the emotional waves hit the shore of the heart, and then they seep back into nothingness along the oceans of nothingness. Yes, when they see that they assume you've "moved on," this can trigger their abandonment issues! I wonder how often a Non's BPD has clung to someone else for validation to the extent that they feel easier about ignoring and giving the ST to the one that has been split black?

I read where there are SOME pwBPD that absolutely do NOT like to be mirrored with silence in the way that they are giving the silence, which is somewhat narcissistic if you ask me (no surprise that NPD and BPD are close relatives, at least in my limited understanding), but instead they want the attention, they want the endless validation, etc., but in my case, it is difficult to do that when there is really no level of communication whatsoever, so I often feel stuck.

Sometimes I wonder: How long should I allow the silence to continue before I rise like a Phoenix from the torturous flames of silence and make my presence known? Or should I just mirror her silence and continue to give her space until (if?) she breaks the silence (again)?

Staying "mum" is often the best bet, to let the ball stay in their court, but I swear, sometimes I just want to say something--a hint that I do not appreciate being ignored and devalued like a sloppy piece of nasty garbage, or like a rat in an infected alleyway somewhere.

I've read and educated myself immensely since this has happened, and I come "prepared" the next go-around! Like you, I think we both can relate to this in the greatest ways at this particular time, and I'm so grateful that you, and others here, GET IT, and can converse about this. It helps to loosen the chains a bit, you know?

I think one of things that sucks the most is not knowing; not being able to have a platform at all, like the rug being ripped right from under you. It's like they've rubbed out your mouth, completely, to have control, to put up their dukes, to build the Great Wall of China around themselves, and of course, this is all so understandable in the way that they behave, but like you said, disengaging and completely pulling away yourself is the best way to go.

There was an initial cycle of ST for two weeks. Then she broke the silence and came out of it, telling me how she misses me "very much!" and how she feels terrible and wanted to catch up with everything that she "not-so-proudly had missed over that stretch," and sending me pics of the morning glories we planted together in her garden, how she's been swarmed with work (which I feel is an excuse; people are swarmed with work all of the time, but that doesn't mean that they completely ignore and wipe away their friends for weeks on end) to then go directly back into silence once again. I think it was my fault, though, because I became emotional again and didn't stay centered, as I should have, and I regret that! but hope to get another opportunity. I've learned so much since then and come prepared to the utmost!

I suppose you prepared yourself for a possible "next time," too, yes?

I could go on and on about this, because there's layers upon layers, but I'll stop there... .

Blessings to you, Lou!

[lovers knot]

(Excuse the repeated text there! Not sure how that happened)

No less, great conversation here!

[Lou12]

Thank you to loversknot I think we're all doing a good job of helping each other out.

I really hate the waves of emotion you describe. One day I'm thinking 'yeh I can get through this, I'm strong, I can detach from this' the next minute you feel like you've been kicked in the stomach.

I honestly believe when my BPD splits me100% black and gives me the silent treatment that he doesn't have them emotions of clinging to someone else for validation in fact I think he gets the opposite feeling and feels stronger, omnipotent etc. He actually believes in his head he does not want me. 'When I am weak he feels strong' when I move on he perceives me getting stronger and he begins to feel weak.

Yes my BPD absolutely hates to be ignored. I think the silent treatment is probably down to his core wound from childhood so ignoring him makes him feel shamed, unworthy etc. I believe that is one of the reasons it's done to me, he remembers how bad it used to make him feel and he's projecting that pain onto me and wants me to feel as bad as he did/does.

Yes BPD/NPD can be quite hard to distinguish. I found the biggest difference for me was that the BPD did the horrible things as a means to survive ie manipulation, cheating, ignoring were more defence mechanisms to protect themselves but with NPD their seemed to be more of a 'I really don't care what I've done' aspect. But both definitely instinctively put themselves about all else and need to stay in the one up position to survive.

Only you can decide when and if to reach out to your BPD. Mine certainly hardly ever reached out directly to me. I would know the right time to reach out based on his BPD behaviour. When he longed for me the silent calls would come, the covert stalking on social media etc etc so then I would call for a catch up and know I was going to get an open response... .well for a short while haha! Honestly loversknot  if you feel that strongly to contact her then do it! I would. I don't because for me it made no difference until he was ready and the rejection was to hard to take, it made me feel worse. But if your struggling that much then reach out but be prepared for the worse case scenario!

You need to find a safe level of control or you'll destroy yourself. I find control in his predictability and I know he is truly sick so that helps me manage myself but the minute I let myself think 'it's something I've done, why didn't i do that, I can help or control his illness' then I'm fooked coz I've just internalised it and made his illness my problem.

When you say 'you've come prepared' what exactly do you mean? The reason I ask is that I used to say the same... .'this cycle I'll try it this way' non of it worked. The only thing that worked for me was just accepting them as they are or get out. If you want your BPD then prepare yourself for the same cycle your dealing with now over and over and over again. This is what BPD is.

Survival means ignoring all BPD behaviour, well to me anyway!

Anyway I hope you don't feel like I'm preaching I just hate to think that ppl are suffering in the hope that they will turn things around, you won't you just have to accept their illness.

X

[lovers knot]

I don't mind the preaching! "Preach it, sista!"  

Yes, a lot of love on here, and goes a long way.

The waves of emotion, oh yeah--they are quite something, aren't they? Like you said, one day it's a feeling of "I've got this!" and another day, a kick in the stomach, as you mentioned.

You said:

"I honestly believe when my BPD splits me 100% black and gives me the silent treatment that he doesn't have them emotions of clinging to someone else for validation in fact I think he gets the opposite feeling and feels stronger, omnipotent etc. He actually believes in his head he does not want me. 'When I am weak he feels strong' when I move on he perceives me getting stronger and he begins to feel weak."

Not having the emotions of clinging to someone else for validation, and gets the opposite feeling and feels stronger, omnipotent, etc., is very interesting to think about. I know that with SOME pwBPD, they jump from one person to the next, seemingly, but it's a phony kind of reality, or non-reality, because often times they won't genuinely care for or truly love this "new person" to cling to, but they'll do it just to fill a gap or void or whatever. In my case, I really don't know what to think, because we've had ZERO communication. It SUCKS! It's wrong. Anyway, I know that they tend to get hyper-focused on their work/whatever, and then suddenly, their emotions are so tied up in that, that they don't have any emotions left for their Non/whomever.

When was the last time you heard from your pwBPD? Do you expect it's completely over at this point?

I must confess that I woke up this morning with the thought: "I wonder if she's split me black for good? I wonder if it's over?" The thing is, one just doesn't know. You can't know, really, because you're not in their head! I would rather be TOLD that "it's over" than to be ignored, and I think anyone would. Have you ever read the book, "Ostracism: The Power of Silence" by Kipling D. Williams? If not, I highly recommend it! Here's the link for it on Amazon (with nine 5-star ratings!):

www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9781572308312

This book isn't specifically centered towards BPD, but the information within is a tell-tall, universal kind of study about it, so it can be for "anyone" that does it--BPD or not, etc.

Interesting that your BPD hates to be ignored, as well; it's like, damned if you do, damned if you don't, right? Ha! Sheesh. But, like you said, it goes back to their childhood, the core wounds, and so on. The thing about my BPD is the fact that I don't know if she still thinks about me, looks at my Facebook timeline, remembers our fun times, our lovely fellowship, communions, studies, etc., or if I've "been cut dead" as the old saying goes (which is a classic psychology quote, which is studied deeper in the book I referenced above--really good stuff!).

I've been told by others not to say anything, and I haven't, as I've been mirroring her silence. But, now, I'm wondering at what point would it be good to let my presence be known. I've read where sometimes the BPD "likes the chase," or likes the fact that they're being reached out to, but on the other hand, some BPD don't like it, and it will make them feel even more engulfed, in which case re-starts the clock of ST. It's funny, because that's how I think of it:

There's a "point" when the trigger occurred, so in their mechanism of psychological wiring, I picture there being this giant clock, and that clock starts counting with Silent Treatment, and it continues on until they decide to press the lever to stop the clock. BUT, if the Non decides to reach out, to stop the clock themselves, then (depending on the BPD), it will either engulf them, push them away even more, in which case the clock re-starts all over again. Like, "Okay, all of that time of silence has now re-started," as if it never had occurred, and it's like a fresh start to let it tick even more-so.

You're right, I've tried my best not to personalize it, because it's truly not OUR fault (in my case, I may have enhanced it, but how was I supposed to know? In one sense, it was my fault for not studying up and learning all that I could about BPD when I first learned that she had it, because I would have behaved COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and been more loose and less idiotic and emotional; I try not to put it all on ME, because our human emotions are different in some sense, but in my case, I really feel like a lot of this triggering was because of my behavior, etc.).

When I mention that I've come prepared, I mean in the sense that if she and I were to converse again, I have a broader, deeper and stronger understanding of how to communicate, using SET, and all of the other lessons that I've learned since all of "this" went down. The jumping from emotional extreme to the next is a no-no, apparently, and to "stay centered" is, I've learned, the best way to go, to keep the connection going, or to at least increase the chance that it will remain. I'm at a point now where I'm expecting anything, and have accepted that, although it's still painful and hurtful, of course. I can't control her behavior, but I can control mine, and this is what I've learned, so in that case, I have bettered myself to understand what the disorder entails, and have learned communication skills for the next go-around (if that ever comes, which I hope does, because I truly care and cherish this dear friend of mine, and I realize that it's her disorder, and not mine--I'm very compassionate! She was abused terribly, verbally and physically, as a child; as you know, this is the primary nucleus of it all!).

I've definitely accepted her illness for what it is; I just wish that I had of done more research and learned communication techniques BEFORE I behaved and acted the way that I did. I feel like it WAS some of my own fault, which caused the trigger, then the split, then the silence/ignore to leave me in a cold wind. As much as I do not appreciate the feeling of being completely ignored, and how hurtful it truly is, I've learned to just cope with it, and realize that her mind is wired this way (she's done this before with other friends, family members, etc., as she has shared with me before--at the time that she shared this information, I was totally ignorant of BPD, their characteristics, etc., so I just looked at it as merely "her way of dealing with emotion," and whatnot).

Anyway, forgive the ramble!

Thank you, always, for the conversation. I love being able to discuss all of this with someone that completely understands and can relate. It's a kind of salve, a soothing aloe for the heart, the soul, spirit, everything... .

[Lou12]

Haha lovers knot yes it's great to have someone understand where your coming from. My friends especially just tell me to 'get over it'! But unless you've walked in our shoes then you never understand what it's like to have a trauma bond.

Yes BPD's I've heard tend to cling to anyone for that validation. Mine the same, he done this when his triggering starts to kick in as I know he had to have a back up plan to make him feel safe. But that was already in place when the black split occurred ready for him to occupy himself with someone else because at that point he really believes he does not want me. I've no evidence to suggest he cheated but my instincts and watching how he functions makes me think otherwise.

I last had contact with my BPD about 2 weeks ago. Do I think he'll be back... .my common sense says of course he will, my fear says he's gone forever! I can handle the silent treatment better now but my biggest killer is how quickly he's triggering to the silent treatment again, I'm not getting the chance to see him before he goes cold. I know he desperately wants to get over me but I know how much he struggles to do so. Actually I will re phrase that and say... I know how much he wants to stop triggering with me but he can't so the only solution is get rid of me. I just trigger his BPD way to much and he hates that fact. It's to much for him to deal with!

Yes if only they told us it's over and meant it, surely that would make things way to easy for us haha!

Ways I gauge I'm likely to get a recycle are... I get random calls off withheld numbers, he checks out my social media, he posts things on his Facebook that are only known between us two, he'll randomly text my friend, he'll try to make me jealous through social media etc. but  he never directly contacts me as this would make him feel to weak/desperate of a person.

Is their no way to gauge any of the above things for yourself?

Try and remove your emotion and what does your common sense tell you about their previous actions and maybe you can gauge what she'll do next!

When was your last contact and how did it end? I'm not opposed to reaching out so that's a possibility for you if you have not done so recently but I always say to myself be prepared to be ignored. Thankfully I learned that until I get the above signs it's no use.

The clock is a good analogy and I especially like that it has the possibility to start ticking from the beginning all over again after you reach out! Suppose you won't know until you try and then learn from that one?

I will look into that book, very fitting indeed!

I understand your frustration about the 'if only I knew' most likely everyone here never knew, me included! Their are many things I would have changed had I have known but we are not wired that way so why would we. I can't change the way I behaved because I genuinely thought 'this dudes taking the piss' initially so I thought 'two can play that game'! Little did I know, so yes I caused the triggering to! Sorry but I refuse to blame myself for it, everythings great in hindsight so hey ho  

Sounds like you have prepared yourself butttttttttttt I say the biggest thing you need to prepare yourself for is the fact that none of it may work and your still in the same position during the next cycle as that my friend is the biggest killer!

Apols for my grammar by the way! My English teacher will be turning in her grave but a million things are in your head at once and I don't have the energy to reread over and change it

X

[lovers knot]

Lou, I'm going post a separate thread about Silent Treatment soon, which will respond to your question, and I'm going to provide a "timeline" and some of the things that were said in the breaking of silence (her texts, in essence), which will answer your questions about my situation; I'd like to get your opinions/thoughts on this after I've shared it.

With that said, I agree with everything that you've said here! I have also been on the other end of the ol' "get over it" attage; it's not really something that one just 'gets over', especially after everything, and how you're still wanting to remain connected! Ah, the misery of non-understanding people. Ha! The trauma bond, yes--a lot of people that say this have absolutely no clue what we Non-BPDs have had to endure, so they're looking at it from a limited perspective.

I'm so sorry that you've had to go through this with your pwBPD. Interesting that he has a backup plan when it happens to make him feel safe, etc. I think that my BPD's new job has given her a new identity, has allowed her to feel validated within the system there, by perhaps co-workers (this is my assumption, granted), but it's strange that she tried calling me the day before she's to begin her new job, almost as a hint to say, "Well, I'm going to be really busy now, so this is just my way of telling you that we won't be talking much after this", but then again, I could be totally wrong, because these are just assumptions! I'll write more about this when I start that new thread in a few moments! I'd like to keep this conversation going, because having someone such as yourself that's been in the eye of this storm is awesome!

So, 2 weeks ago! That's a common pattern, methinks! I remember seeing your posts on the quick trigger-finger that he has will pulling off the silence again, in this cycle of madness! I would say not to lose hope; do you often use SET and other techniques for communication to stay centered, to allow him space and to self-soothe? I get the impression that he still cares about you--and they definitely have strange ways of showing that!--my pwBPD once said, "I'm not good with this stuff!" meaning, "I communicate terribly, and all of this lovey-dovey possibilities, the intimacy fears, the connections, etc., are difficult for me," and that's so understandable!

It's sad indeed my friend, but who knows what will happen. I think staying centered and compassionate is the best bet, a lot of the times, although it's often difficult to shed the common, normal human emotions that we have in situations like this, because NONE OF US have ever had to deal with anything like this before, especially when we're so accustomed to 'typical' levels of communication with friends, family, or even random strangers. Not that they cannot communicate in certain ways, because my BPD was an excellent speaker, could easily hold a conversation, but my behavior has distanced her, and I kick myself for it, terribly!

Interesting that your BPD will essentially seek you out after a while; checking all of your stuff, sending texts to friends, and all of these random things, trying to make you jealous, etc. It sounds like he's the 'acting out' BPD, right? I think my dear friend with BPD is an 'acting in'/silent-type. Of course, both sides of the token will use the ST in their own ways, which is common, but it's interesting how they'll keep you on Facebook, or do what you describe. I sometimes think: "If you want to destroy me completely, do it! Remove me as a contact from your phone, and then delete me off of Facebook. If you have such low regard for me, why even bother to see my posts on Facebook, or whatever the case may be?" I mean, if you're going to ignore me, just delete me from everything and be done with it. But, no, there's a level of clinging, I suppose; I've often wondered if she's hidden some of the gifts I've given/made for her in her kitchen; she told me that she has them where she can see them, and one of the gifts she told me was hanging on her fridge. I wonder if she has removed them? or does she keep them there to keep my 'presence' there, as a form of control in some odd way?

You're right! Can't worry about what we didn't do in the past, but to try and make the present and the future the best that we can have it. It's not as easy as some people think; this complex web would make Charlotte's Web go up in FLAMES in a heartbeat! Haha! It's like, wow. You are right about preparing and being prepared, but not to expect too much and expect to continue to be ignored, etc.

No worries about your grammar! I'm not one to pay attention to those frivolous matters :D

Okay, I'm going to start a new thread momentarily, and I'll add your name in the subject heading and in there I'll get more into details about the whole nine yards!

I also want to hear more about your own story, experience, situation, and whatever else you'd like to share. The conversation is truly soothing!

[Lou12]

Haha lovers knot it had to google SET as I've never heard of it. Honestly I grew up with a father who has high traits, I have a few myself(very lower scale), my best friends husband who I'm very close with is BPD to and now my ex plus I worked in the mental health field for a while so I think I'm just hard wired with these ppl! I'm going to read more about SET though because I do believe my down fall is how I communicated with him but having just looked at that technique a little a moment go I pretty much use that vocabulary unconsciously.

I think he's 'acting in' BPD actually, just by comparing him to other acting out BPDs I've come across he's definitely more silent type.

Look forward to the post x

[lovers knot]

Haha lovers knot it had to google SET as I've never heard of it. Honestly I grew up with a father who has high traits, I have a few myself(very lower scale), my best friends husband who I'm very close with is BPD to and now my ex plus I worked in the mental health field for a while so I think I'm just hard wired with these ppl! I'm going to read more about SET though because I do believe my down fall is how I communicated with him but having just looked at that technique a little a moment go I pretty much use that vocabulary unconsciously.

I think he's 'acting in' BPD actually, just by comparing him to other acting out BPDs I've come across he's definitely more silent type.

Look forward to the post x

Lou, here's the new thread I started, my friend; check it out when you get the opportunity:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=282378.0

I basically tell-all there, give timelines, share her texts (in bold red!), etc., etc.

As for your recent comment you just made... .

I'm glad you researched into SET, as I think that that will REALLY help you!

I, too, think that I have a few traits, as well, and it's funny, because I've discovered that it seems as though a lot of people do, to a certain extent (a lower scale, as you mentioned). Ha, it seems like you're surrounded by BPDs! Hey, this could be a positive thing, right? Pros and cons, eh? If anything, there's always much more to learn. I do believe your communication skills will improve, and you can salvage the connection; I mean, that's what we're all here for, mostly, to keep hope for the connection to last--I mean, really! Caring and cherishing and adoring and loving someone so much, in true and genuine COMPASSION, how could one NOT want to? Obviously there are reasons why people leave, and those reasons are legit, I do understand! but most of us here keep out hope to re-kindle or reconnect somehow, and to better ourselves and truly get to a point where we want to see the person be helped (my pwBPD, as you'll see that I stated in my new thread, has admitted that she needs help and had actually set up therapy sessions so that she can "give her friends and family the love and attention that they deserve"--she also said, "One day, one day... .(with my name at the end of this phrase)" which I found to be poignant; she understands and realizes how destructive her 'ways' are and she's willing to change it, and to do whatever she can to recover and heal--I feel like this is great news).

I agree that your downfall was probably how you've been communicating. In fact, there's a lot of great articles on THIS site that can help you better communicate. Maybe you've looked into them, as well? I think that you can overcome this, and discipline yourself to communicate that will make your pwBPD be put in a better position to actually re-engage with you in the comfortable sense; I hope you look more into it!

Good thing our BPDs are the silent-type, eh? I feel bad for those that take a constant thrashing of verbal and often physical abuse from their pwBPD! I mean, yes, the ST is indeed a form of verbal abuse, and in some ways, I wonder if being lashed out at would be better than merely being ignored (in the book that I shared above, there's commentaries on this very topic, which is very interesting--I think you'd dig it!).

Looking forward to more conversation soon!