I just hate feeling like I have been thrown to the curb

[lovers knot]

Lou12 (or whomever else), Hello! You may see a repeat of similar texts from older conversations, so bare with me, but I figured I'd start this new thread to get right down to the 'meat' and the details of my situation with the Silent Treatment/Being Ignored, the Timelines, and the whole nine yards, so here goes!:

Last time I spoke with my dear friend vocally was over 1 month ago (July 29th, when she called me to tell me that she had gotten the job that morning--she was excited and so was I! and she said, "I'm so grateful to you" and so on. Before that, we spoke and had a very long and good, pleasant, enjoyable conversation on the night of July 27th). I haven't spoken to her vocally since then (the 29th), sadly, and the last text messages she's sent to me was on August 11th, where she was saying all of these kind and lovely things to me; being apologetic, saying how she's a terrible friend, how she feels bad, that she misses me very much, how she wants so badly to catch up, how she “LOVED” the snail-mail, handwritten letters that I had sent along to her, and how she's not proud that she's missed everything from my end, hopes I am doing so well, etc., etc.

Since then? I have been left to float in the silent seas.

The 11th was the last I heard from her, which was almost 3 weeks ago now. So, all-in-all, it has been over 1 month and there has been the following:

1 vocal phone conversation (the last one on the 29th of July)

1 text (technically she sent more than 1 text, as there were several in a bundle that night that was sent simultaneously, but she had called me first before sending out the texts, but I didn’t see the call until later, in which case she texted after not being able to reach me; I’ve often wondered what the conversation would have went like had I answered it, and in some way, I think that it may be a good thing that I did not answer THEN, because I am way, way, way more knowledgeable and have a broader grasp on how to communicate the next time that we do converse, which is to stay centered and leave the emotion out of it; I hope I get that opportunity, unless she plans to keep my black forever. Sigh.)

Here is what was said on the 11th in her texts (after two weeks of giving me the silent treatment for the first time; before, she had referred to me as "the sweetest person in her life," how "I came into her life to save it," and so many wonderful things; but, it was my misbehavior/ignorance of BPD at THAT TIME that caused her to feel engulfed, so in essence, I do blame myself for the triggering, the splitting me black, etc., and for acting over-emotional when I should have remained centered and not get caught up in the extremes, etc.)---on the 11th, she made the attempt to call me FIRST, which was surprising, but since she couldn't reach me, she texted me after the following (putting the text in red here):

"Hello hello! I can't believe it's been 2 (?) weeks! I only can't believe it because I feel so bad. I hope you believe me when I say I have been completed swamped in school work. Anyways, let's catch up! Tomorrow is my first day of school, and at this point in time I'm not very nervous! I just want to let you know I LOVED that last letter you sent me, and I got 2 books in the mail (the same book) today! They are at school for me to read! I'm a terrible friend, I know that. I feel terrible and I really truly hope you are doing well. Are you still in (the same city)? Please tell me how you are and what you're doing! I miss you very much (my name)!"

After that, she sends me a picture of the morning glories that we planted in her garden together, and she says:The morning glories "

Then, the texts from her continued:

"I've got to go to bed now so I can try to get up so early. Anyways, please please let's catch up! I want you to share everything I've not-proudly missed in these past two weeks"

THE END. After that? Complete silence again. I didn't think much of it at the time, other than her dealing with her new job, the emotion and hyperfocus that goes into that, etc., but then I noticed that she ST started again, and I made the mistake of responding over-emotionally, and not staying centered (which I've learned my lesson).

I did send her a couple of texts on the 15th of August, asking her how she was, how her job was going, and made the mistake of saying that I missed her (when I should have remained centered and kept emotional extremes out of it, which I do plan to do in the future, if I ever get that opportunity!) and that I missed our conversations, and hoped to catch up and hear from her soon. But, no response. Nothing. Ignore Button on full blast.

I wonder for how long this is going to go on. I do a lot of “wondering” and I find myself shocked by how much wondering I have done since getting involved with a pwBPD.

As much as I sometimes feel tempted to say something to her, or to send her a card, a handwritten letter with goodies inside, whatever, I refrain. But, how long is too long? I’ve been told to remain silent, mirror it, let her be the one to reach out, etc., but is there ever a breaking point, a time period where something should be said?

I said in another thread that I read where some pwBPD absolutely do not like to be mirrored with silence in the way that they are giving the silence, which is somewhat narcissistic if you ask me (no surprise that NPD and BPD are close relatives, at least in my limited understanding), but instead they want the attention, they want the endless validation, etc., but in my case, it is difficult to do that when there is really no level of communication whatsoever, so I often feel stuck. Sometimes I wonder: How long should I allow the silence to continue before I rise like a Phoenix from the torturous flames of silence and make my presence known? Or should I just mirror her silence and continue to give her space until (if?) she breaks the silence (again)?

The weeks roll by, without a peep, and if it keeps up, the months will, as well, but there are times where I want to say, “I know that you hate me, that you totally disdain me, that you have devalued my very existence, so why not just go ahead and remove me from your phone, and delete me from Facebook?” (that sounds terrible!) It is harsh, and I do not want that, of course, but sometimes I think about it, and the thought makes me feel sad. If I’m to be ignored and thrown out for good, why not just go ahead and “go all out” and remove me completely? Maybe it’s because she still cares for me and misses me “very much” as she’s stated?

I come prepared the next time, though, and as much as I miss my dear friend, I will have a broader grasp on the communication. If I see a repeat of similar texts or whatever it may be next time, then this may be her way of testing me. I would rather her punch me out and spit on me than to just throw me off as if I mean absolutely nothing to her. Total ostracizing, as if I cease to exist (something typical in their behavior, I do realize). Again, I am trying my best not to personalize any of this, because I know this is their modus operandi, but I find myself having to block those common, human emotions and let compassion, understanding and total space-giving submission to let it runs its course, however long it may be. There are often these tidal waves of emotions that come roaring throughout my soul about the whole thing, and even though I catch myself personalizing all of this, it still hurts, even with all of the knowledge that one may gain and have educated themselves about it all.

Truth is, it would not surprise me if she has gotten so hyper-focused on her work that she does not feel the need to talk to me; pwBPD and their emotions taking up so much space with their work or whatever it is, that they have nothing left to give emotionally to anyone else. It also would not surprise me if she is involved with new friends, like co-workers, and they are taking up her emotional spaces and giving her the validation she needs. I have unfollowed her from Facebook, because seeing any posts of hers makes me feel upset and emotional. I haven’t looked at her Timeline in several weeks, and don’t plan to.

I just hate feeling like I have been thrown to the curb, left to rot like an old banana peel, slowly browning to a black and eventually liquidating like a witched witch into nothingness. It is shocking, but it is only shocking when I personalize it, and then I am snapped back to reality (whatever that is, ha!).

Here is what is so interesting, to close this:

My friend with BPD has said that she knows and realizes that she needs help, and when we talked before, she told me that she had therapy sessions lined up to get that help. She acknowledged to me that she hoped to one day be able to give back what all of her family and friends “deserve”—the care and attention that they deserve, so this is a great sign that at least she acknowledges her problem, and is seeking to get help for it. I think that she realizes that she is ruining many great relationships, of which are I believe truly special to her. I believe her when she tells me that she misses me; I feel intuitively that she means that, but the silence and ignoring me is her way of coping and dealing with the engulfing of it all.

*

There's most of the package of it all, although of course there are other details that don't get mentioned and whatnot, but that's the main stuff.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Daniell85]

I don't get the impression you are thrown to the curb.

What I think as I read through that stuff is that she is busy with school, and it seems that maybe she is not placing the same importance on your friendship as you are. It seems you want an intimate friendship, and she simply is not able or willing to put the kind of intensity into it as you are.

Is it possible that a re-set of expectations on your part would allow you to go with the flow a bit more without being so anxious that you haven't heard from her?

[lovers knot]

By the way, I should make it a point to state that we do not live in the same city, of course, and that she moved away from here a couple of months ago to be with her family, as, at that time, she was really struggling and battling, and then I came on the scene. She has called me her "best friend" in the past. She moved to be closer to her family--her sister and her sister's husband live essentially within feet of her house/apartment in their backyard. She used to be a babysitter for them (they have a small baby boy), until they accused her of "using them" for her advantage, in which case she blew up, went on a drinking/smoking binge, and said that she felt "lackluster," and couldn't fathom how she could be told those things when she works her tail off for them: babysitting, cooking, cleaning, etc., 50 hours per week or more, etc.

They eventually found a new babysitter and she was left unemployed. Until, she got this new job as a middle school teacher at the school right across the street, essentially walking distance. She told me that I was the first person that she called to tell the great news, and so on, as I had been hyper-encouraging her and validating her and giving her praise, deservedly-so!, throughout that time, to keep her head up, that something great will happen, that things will look up, and then bam! She got that job. She was so happy and excited, etc.

During this time, I was also dealing and battling with some terrible issues, and I noticed that she began to slowly wind down our texting, conversation, and boundaries were put up (a good thing), but it kind of threw me for a loop at the time, but I was ignorant of the characteristics of BPD, and wasn't too familiar with it, so I added to the push away that she has given me since then. I made a comment at the time that she was job searching, not knowing where to turn, struggling and battling in her own light, that I "needed her" ("I need you!" which I think may have triggered her--or at least one of the things, but what I MEANT was, "I need to talk to you" or "I need a good friend to talk to about my problems and could use a little uplifting encouragement," but I think that my comments were TOTALLY misconstrued, which I think caused even more of a push away. Had I known what I know NOW, I would have behaved differently, and my communication would have been a lot better, so I do blame my ignorance of her BPD for my own silly and stupid behavior, and not treading along the correct paths as such.

Since that time, I'm better, doing a lot better; and I told her that I was doing great, that all of the problems had vanished and that I got through them, and that all was back to normal, as before. Had she realized that my "I need you!" comment was to merely have someone to talk to--someone like her that I thought I could count on to hear me out about my issues, and maybe comfort me, etc.--I think maybe the push and ST wouldn't be as powerful as it is now.

Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows what to think sometimes... .

[lovers knot]

I don't get the impression you are thrown to the curb.

What I think as I read through that stuff is that she is busy with school, and it seems that maybe she is not placing the same importance on your friendship as you are. It seems you want an intimate friendship, and she simply is not able or willing to put the kind of intensity into it as you are.

Is it possible that a re-set of expectations on your part would allow you to go with the flow a bit more without being so anxious that you haven't heard from her?

Daniell85, YES! I'd like to hope that I've not been thrown to the curb, out of nowhere, right? Like the comment I just made above, I think that I made a huge mistake by not looking into BPD when she initially told me that she had it, or else I would have behaved differently. This is just a fact!

I agree that she is perhaps just busy with school--she got the job as a middle school teacher at the school right across the street from where she lives--so I'm sure this is taking up all of her time, and rightfully-so!

I'd just like ANY form of communication. I come better prepared next time, and I just hope to get that opportunity. I agree that a re-set of expectations will help.

The thing is: we both went from this really, deep, loving kind of friendship, where we held hands and caressed one another at one point, to a total back-off and a push away. So, it's not as if this is just my own over-emotional rollercoaster, you see? This was a high-octane-type, passionate friendship, but I do believe that her fear of intimacy also drove her away (along with my stupid behavior!).

There was two separate occasions when we were last together where, when she was holding my hand (she grabbed it, and then caressed my shoulder), I noticed that it was almost as if she CAUGHT herself in a vulnerable state, and she quickly let go of my hand, got up, went to the kitchen, and started cooking. Ha!

Another time was when we were outside: the way she looked at me told me that she cared about me; a person just knows. But, I noticed she caught herself feeling vulnerable again, and she quickly snapped out of it and went back to planting seeds in egg shells (and so did I!).

Really, the only thing that I want at this point is to just have a regular connection again--nothing else. ANY communication would be better than nothing. I care about her and would love to talk to her, see how she's doing, how her job is going, just the simple things as before. Nothing too emotional, over-emotional, nothing complex; just the simple, innocent and sweet friendship as before.

That's all that I want, truly... .

[rotiroti]

Hey lovers_knot,

I remember your post from a while back, what had happened after you wished her a happy birthday?

[lovers knot]

Hey lovers_knot,

I remember your post from a while back, what had happened after you wished her a happy birthday?

After I wished her Happy Birthday (where I kept it funny, light-hearted, and send along two pictures in text: one of them was a funny picture, and the other one was a Happy Birthday greeting that featured garden tools, gardening, etc., since that is one of her most favorite things in the world to do), but she didn't say anything, and remained silent.

That was on the 7th of August.

It wasn't until the 11th of August (the day before she started her new job, where she tried calling me after the two weeks of silence) did I hear from her. I saw her call later, and since she couldn't get me on the phone, she sent me the texts that I highlighted in bold red above.

Since then, there's been nothing but silence. I think that I didn't help by reacting emotionally to her sudden texts of breaking the silence, and that has made her push me away again; I have learned my lesson in that regard, and have learned better forms of communication, which I plan to use if we ever talk again (which I'm hopeful for). Again, I'll repeat: had I been more aware of BPD and had investigated, researched and educated myself at the time that she initially told me that she had it, I feel like I would have acted completely different, because I would have been knowledgeable about how to better handle certain conversations and my own behavior.

One problem I often have is that I tend to personalize it. I catch myself doing this at times, when the emotion returns to me, but then I catch myself and realize that it isn't me (at least for the most part), and that she has the disorder, and I remember to not take it personally when I do begin to feel that way.

I don't want anything other than to just re-connect, have ANY form of communication, to just have the innocent and sweet-loving bond as before. Nothing else. I don't want to lose this dear friend, and it's painful to think about it at times. I remain hopeful!

By the way, she never acknowledged in her texts after I sent the Happy Birthday stuff, that I had sent those things. She didn't say 'thank you for the greetings!' or anything. The last thing I heard from her was on the 11th of August in the bold red text above in my initial post. Since then, there's been completely silence.

[Skip]

Hi knot…

I think if you evaluate her actions as a wife they fall really short. If you evaluate them as a friend, this is how friends act.  And friends accept that.

Do you think that the two of your are in a different relationship?

It happens.

Skip

[lovers knot]

Hi knot…

I think if you evaluate her actions as a wife they fall really short. If you evaluate them as a friend, this is how friends act.  And friends accept that.

Do you think that the two of your are in a different relationship?

It happens.

Skip

No, I don't agree with that. This isn't how friends act, whatsoever. No friend deserts another friend, totally ignores them for days on end, without zero communication. Yes, this the product of a pwBPD, and I get that, understand that, and have surely come to grips with this push/pull - splitting - etc., have educated and learned many great things about this disorder which has opened my eyes, enlightened me, etc., but in all light, yes, it does "just happen," and I suppose all sorts of things in life "just happen" too, but it's still torturous, the ST is still a monster and a juggernaut. Our friendship wasn't a mere friendship in the common sense; it went far beyond the mere 'surface' level, if you can understand what I mean. Re-read through the posts above and you will be able to discern the realities of our connection.

I'm just like anyone else, really, having dealt with this issue, so to have someone respond so nonchalantly, and then to see my posts being edited by moderators is unappreciated, but it is what it is... .

[lovers knot]

By the way, yes, my post was edited--my subject-heading must have been offensive or somehow inappropriate to the moderators? I didn't think that it was being dishonest; I've seen far "worse" things said on here that remained unedited.

Also: my initial comment above was edited, as well, from the dark bold red that I had her texts quoted in, to now an italic blue. Why? I'm not one to quibble, but it just makes no sense that my subject-heading and posts have been edited. Hmm!

Oh, well. Not a big deal, of course, as I've seen far more aggressive-type comments made, without any editing at all.

Either way, thanks to all who have read this in complete and can relate to all of this... .

[Lou12]

Hi lover knot, I just want to acknowledge that I have got your message. I am so busy today but I will thoroughly read it tonight and message you back x

[lovers knot]

Hi lover knot, I just want to acknowledge that I have got your message. I am so busy today but I will thoroughly read it tonight and message you back x

No worries, Lou! Thank you for acknowledging me here, and for the kind words, as always. Everyone is busy, so there's never a rush, please know. I'll be grateful if you read through the comments here, including the things I've said to others above, when time permits itself, and only when it permits itself, and nothing more!

Hope you're well, friend, and talk soon!

[Skip]

the ST is still a monster and a juggernaut.

lovers knot,

Silent treatment is when someone purposely goes quiet on you to punish you or to try to manipulate you into seeing things their way.

Is this what is happening?  What is she trying to accomplish?

Or is she pre-occupied, hyper-focused on what is happening in her new life and not getting around to you?

[Lou12]

You know what Lovers knot I gauge from your previous posts how much of a passionate person you are and regardless of who you chose to spend your life with I think you will make someone really happy with your empathic kind nature.

Just a few questions I wanted to ask, I hope that's ok?

What exactly is the nature of your relationship? Has it gone beyond friendship to a romantic level? I was a little unsure by your post if it had although I can see how much you'd like that

You mention in your post that you may have overwhelmed her with some of your emotions, how so? Ie what were the tone of YOUR messages and conversations etc!

You mention that you think she's split you black, giving you silent treatment and disdains you, what gives you this impression? Suppose i am asking about YOUR level of contacting her not hers?

X

[Lou12]

I would just like to add that I've been the victim of both silent treatment and splitting black and for me they appeared to be two different things. Splitting was when in his head he wanted absolutely nothing to do with me. Silent treatment appeared to me passive aggressive punishment usually carried out on me when he was at the height of emotion/triggering! Any more thoughts on how these two differ anyone? X

[Daniell85]

I've gotten episodes of ST over and over. My boyfriend literally told me that he was mad at me for my behavior and "that is why I am not talking."

He's been holding the latest grudge for 3 months. We have had bouts of conflict during that 3 months and he is attempting to push me around all over the place with telling me when and where I can talk to him. I am ignoring him on that.

Silent treatment is mean. In my experience something a bit ugly happens before it starts. Your friend said she was overwhelmed, very busy, very sorry not to be more available... and she has gone quiet. Beginnings of school years can be very demanding.

You are probably thinking that if it really mattered to her, if YOU mattered, she would make time for you. I am curious, too, if something was said on your end that "overwhelmed" her? You keep alluding to that.

[shatra]

loversknot wrote--

you have devalued my very existence, so why not just go ahead and remove me from your phone, and delete me from Facebook?” (that sounds terrible!) It is harsh, and I do not want that, of course, but sometimes I think about it, and the thought makes me feel sad. If I’m to be ignored and thrown out for good, why not just go ahead and “go all out” and remove me completely? Maybe it’s because she still cares for me and misses me “very much” as she’s stated?

-----If she were totally done, or if you were totally devalued, wouldn't she delete you from facebook and the phone?  She still has some type of connection to you

[lovers knot]

the ST is still a monster and a juggernaut.

lovers knot,

Silent treatment is when someone purposely goes quiet on you to punish you or to try to manipulate you into seeing things their way.

Is this what is happening?  What is she trying to accomplish?

Or is she pre-occupied, hyper-focused on what is happening in her new life and not getting around to you?

Skip, yes, indeed! I suppose the “treatment” there is a good indicator that this a form of “treating” one to a particular way of looking through their viewfinder, in whatever way it may be. I do think that she may have felt engulfed by my behavior and possible clinginess, albeit it may have gotten misconstrued as such, because of my words being taken the wrong way, which I discovered may have very-well been the case after pondering it more. I don’t know what she’s trying to accomplish; that’s a good question. I think that she may have been “testing” my “boundaries” when she came out of the first ST, but afterwards I stayed on a familiar ground of over-emotional highs, excitement to see her texts, etc., to the point where I didn’t remain centered as I should have. I’ve learned my lesson! She may be just be hyper-focused and not putting too much emotional investment into me, which is cool too, but to give the ST and go AWOL/ignore is not cool, but something I understand is their M.O., and so I’ve accepted it, even though it sucks (as most of we Nons know!). Thank you, always, for the thoughts and comments, Skip!

[lovers knot]

You know what Lovers knot I gauge from your previous posts how much of a passionate person you are and regardless of who you chose to spend your life with I think you will make someone really happy with your empathic kind nature.

Just a few questions I wanted to ask, I hope that's ok?

What exactly is the nature of your relationship? Has it gone beyond friendship to a romantic level? I was a little unsure by your post if it had although I can see how much you'd like that

You mention in your post that you may have overwhelmed her with some of your emotions, how so? Ie what were the tone of YOUR messages and conversations etc!

You mention that you think she's split you black, giving you silent treatment and disdains you, what gives you this impression? Suppose i am asking about YOUR level of contacting her not hers?

X

Lou, thank you for the kind words, truly! I’m very passionate and loving, yes, and I have a lot to offer. To me, it’s “agape love,” which I’ve practiced for years now, which of course takes discipline. It’s a higher form of love; it’s the sacrificial love. You first, then Me. I think sacrificing ‘self’ in relationships is a huge factor in their success, and what I mean by that is the mere “little things.” Anyway, thank you for the love and kindness; I feel the same about you, too, and many other people here on these boards; a lot of really good people!

The nature of our relationship, as of right now, is seemingly null and void, but that’s just my own personalizing woes! I’m terrible at that, and need to do better. Our relationship never went to a romantic level, but there were little hints of it coming to fruition as I mentioned in my earlier comments in this thread. In fact, our friendship started off quite wonderfully, which lead to so many sweet, loving, and beautifully poetic conversations of pure passion, but also it was about our fellowship, communion, and how we grew to be like best friends (she even called me her best friend); we often told one another that we loved one another; totally innocent, sweet and wondrous. Where I really went wrong, and yes I do believe I had a hand in the trigger, was, as I’ve said before, my behavior was overwhelming to her, PRIMARILY because I did not look into BPD until it was all said and done! Huge, huge mistake. This is usually uncharacteristic about me because I typically involve myself greatly with other people; I take the time to get to know them, know their heart, find out what they desire, love, enjoy, etc., and whatever else, so after she initially told me her woes, her problems, her ways of acting at times, and the fact that she has BPD, I should’ve looked into it then. Had I known what I know NOW at THAT time, I would have 110% behaved differently, better communicated, and not walk the thin line that I didn’t even realize that I was walking! It’s crazy to think back on now!

I think that what may have triggered her was that I was getting too close, and the fear of intimacy came into play. It wasn’t long after we befriended, that she told me that she had been in a relationship with a “control freak” who abandoned her in downtown London, because she wasn’t “responding” in the way that he wanted her to; her literally left her stranded in downtown London; they had gone together on another trip before, to South Africa, but she said he was difficult to get along with, controlling, and just overall a jerk. The thing is: I noticed that she still has someone like HIM still as a ‘friend’ on her Facebook. Anyway, also: I also later discovered that she was in a relationship with a guy for 8 years, too, and I think having these bad experiences with men in the past has driven her away from relationships, at least for a while, and that’s understandable. The thing about she and I was that we never had a romantic relationship, but we DID sleep in the same bed together one weekend, which wasn’t my intention to begin with, as I had planned to sleep on the blow-up mattress that she had for me on her floor; she didn’t mind that I slept next to her, and so on. Nothing romantic; just total sweetness, you see?

I noticed that, on two separate occasions, it seemed like she wanted to get closer to me, but she found herself feeling vulnerable, so she quickly snapped out of it, let go. Example: she grabbed my hand, held it, while at the same time caressing my shoulder. While she was doing that, I was gently caressing her wrist with my thumb of the hand that she was holding, while my other hand was stroking her cheek and hair, very delicately. Little things like this are treasures for me! It was beautiful, totally sweet. Then, I noticed that she suddenly found herself perhaps in a vulnerable state, quickly let go of my hand, got up, went to the kitchen and started cooking us food, without saying anything! Ha! Later, the same thing happened when we were out in her garden, planting seeds in egg shells; she again found herself feeling vulnerable so she quickly pulled back, etc.

So, as you can see, it got a certain point, right? I mean, at this point, her FRIENDSHIP is important to me, and I don’t want to lose that, first and foremost. I care and truly do love her as a dear friend to me, and so this is why I find it all so painful at times. Like I said, I come better prepared the next time, for I know what I am dealing with now, versus before, I was ignorant of all of this stuff!

I think you may be right about ST vs. Splitting Black. Perhaps I’m just in ST, and haven’t been split, at least in the way that I may assume. Sometimes I wonder if I’m over-thinking; I’ve often wondered if perhaps *I* have BPD! Haha! But, seriously, perhaps she doesn’t disdain me at all, and that this is just my own over-thinking about it. If she disdained me, I’d think she’d delete me from her phone and delete me off of Facebook. It’s often difficult to know what to think sometimes, but it is what it is.

I know that you’ve been a victim of the ST, and it’s truly a juggernaut to be reckoned with, as you know. Your comment here was really good: “Splitting was when in his head he wanted absolutely nothing to do with me. Silent treatment appeared to me passive aggressive punishment usually carried out on me when he was at the height of emotion/triggering!” It makes me wonder, too, if one is IN the ST, how does one know if it is ST or having been split? At this point, it’s tough to know. There’s complete silence, so is this ‘treatment’, being treated in this sense, or is the silence a form of NC, which stems from being split? Very interesting to think about. What do you think? I always enjoy your insight. I thank you, endlessly, for your kindness and thoughtfulness in responding, Lou! Please share more, and anything else from your end; I love the conversation here!

[lovers knot]

I've gotten episodes of ST over and over. My boyfriend literally told me that he was mad at me for my behavior and "that is why I am not talking."

He's been holding the latest grudge for 3 months. We have had bouts of conflict during that 3 months and he is attempting to push me around all over the place with telling me when and where I can talk to him. I am ignoring him on that.

Silent treatment is mean. In my experience something a bit ugly happens before it starts. Your friend said she was overwhelmed, very busy, very sorry not to be more available... and she has gone quiet. Beginnings of school years can be very demanding.

You are probably thinking that if it really mattered to her, if YOU mattered, she would make time for you. I am curious, too, if something was said on your end that "overwhelmed" her? You keep alluding to that.

Daniell, hey! I remember seeing some of your posts throughout the time about how you’ve been given the ST over and over, and it was always an interesting read to see your thoughts and insight. I thank you for responding, truly! So, have you been given the ST for 3 months now, or are you blinking in and out of ‘reality’? Is the grudge a perpetual silent one, or is the grudge he’s holding one of which gives you hints here and there, little audible squeaks from in-between the walls, like a mouse saying hello, then going away to fetch cheese or something? Ha! That was random! Anyway, I’m just genuinely curious.

With that said, yes, ST is definitely mean. I must confess that after all of “this,” and having been the victim of ST, and learning and educating myself on BPD, learning the techniques of communication, how to handle certain things, and the entire spectrum of it all, that it really comes to a particular point where you realized that you may have given the ST to people in the past, although not often, but one just remembers certain things, and it is like, wow, it truly IS ruinous in every way. “Mean”. Yes!

I agree with you that she is probably overwhelmed and swarmed with her work; she just recently got a new job as a middle school teacher, after having worried about where she was going to turn, etc., because of layers and layers of information and other issues that I’ll spare you. But, essentially, I think that this has really given her a new identity, and I’m happy for her, and I always will be. She told me that she was grateful to me, after I encouraged her, told her that great things were coming, that I had been praying for her always, and so on; she then got this job and she called me first to tell me, and I was so excited. Right before she started the job, she tried calling, then texted me (I quoted it above in my original post; that was on the 11th and the last I’ve heard from her). Anyway! Maybe I’m just overthinking, but that’s a terrible habit of mine; pros and cons, right? And overthinking isn’t always a con! It’s just painful, as you said, thinking that I just don’t matter anymore, if that’s the case. I understand that she’s busy, feels confident about her new status, etc., etc.

The great news, as I mentioned before, is that she has acknowledged that she needs help, and has already made contact (what she told me before, back in late July) with a therapist, to start group sessions, etc. She said, “I know that I have a problem, and it’s time I do something about it; I want to change, and I want to give all of my friends and family that I love all of the attention and the love that they deserve.” It was poignant to me; I’m so compassionate! I just want to melt sometimes. She then said, “One day, [my name] … one day…” She once called me “the sweetest person” in her life, and so on. There’s just so much. I just want to talk to her again. I truly miss her, and our conversations, fellowship, and overall just being dear friends.

As for the overwhelming stuff, look at the comment I made above to Lou where I explain it a little there. I think that my words at the time were misconstrued by her. Short story: I was going through some major issues, myself; dealing with problems of all kinds that hit me when all of HER issues were going on with looking for work, trying to sort herself out, beginning to put boundaries up, distancing herself a bit from me, etc., and I was really needing someone to talk to, to give me encouragement of some sort, or to simply hear me out and be a dear friend to me; and I said to her in a Facebook message, “I need you!” which I truly do think, genuinely, that she took for something else. I wish I could tell her that that wasn’t meant in the way that she may have taken it. What I meant was: “I need to talk to you!” or, in other words: “Could we talk right now, on the phone, because I could use someone to talk to as I go through my difficult time, and could use a boost of encouragement and perhaps some advice on what to do about the decisions I need to quickly make, etc.” I know that pwBPD sometimes have difficulty with over-emotional Nons, negativity of any sort, and then my comment which perhaps was misconstrued as something else, and this pushed her away even more-so, and the cherry on top was my behavior, communication, and overall unaware-of-BPD behavior (at the time, again, I wasn’t aware of BPD, which was a huge mistake on my part; she told me early on that she had it, but I didn’t research it right away as I should have, or else I KNOW for a fact that my behavior and ways of communicating would have been a lot different!). So, that’s a part of my “overwhelmed her” comment that I allude to. What do you think? I do know one thing: I have better prepared myself and I truly have a deeper understanding of BPD than from before, so I feel like, in some sense, that is a kind of “comfort” in its own right, at least in a weird sense…

[lovers knot]

loversknot wrote--

you have devalued my very existence, so why not just go ahead and remove me from your phone, and delete me from Facebook?” (that sounds terrible!) It is harsh, and I do not want that, of course, but sometimes I think about it, and the thought makes me feel sad. If I’m to be ignored and thrown out for good, why not just go ahead and “go all out” and remove me completely? Maybe it’s because she still cares for me and misses me “very much” as she’s stated?

-----If she were totally done, or if you were totally devalued, wouldn't she delete you from facebook and the phone?  She still has some type of connection to you

shatra, thank you for chiming in! I think you may be right, although like I said above, she had a really mean, control freak, jerk of a boyfriend for a few months who abandoned her in downtown London, England (!) once, who she really told me was a “destructive individual” and yet she still keeps HIM as a Facebook friend, which is pretty shocking after the way that she was treated, so I have to be honest: your question is a good one, but it makes me wonder if this is just “how she rolls” when it comes to not deleting, or involving herself in those things? I would think if someone were that controlling, damaging, rude, mean, abandoning her in a foreign city in the middle of a busy area, sending her back home without going with her, and being such a destructive human being with “major issues,” that she would try and get away from such a person, no? But, alas, she still has him as a contact on Facebook. I don’t know. Anyway, either way, like you said, she still has a connection with me in that way, albeit it still bodes a lot of questions and curiosities on my part!

[Lou12]

Hey loversknot, your post has had my brain working a little overtime haha! Good deflection from my own problems.

If I was you I think I would need to know if their was actually a chance of a romantic relationship or is she keeping me in the friend zone?

A lot of what you say in your post speaks of intense friendship but not necessarily a romantic one from her behalf. Although I can see that your quite a hippy at heart so it could well be a culture thing that you both haven't just turned it romantic?

The thing is, some BPDs like to be in relationships with abusive ppl. It's what they are used to, it's what makes them feel at a comfortable level in love so maybe that's why she gravitates towards abusive men. Maybe your mr nice and she doesn't know how to deal with that.

I think you have to find out where you are with this person? What are her intentions romantically? I think until you find out what zone your even in then it's hard to assess what her intentions are! I think you should find out this for YOU, regardless of her BPD.

I can't help but feel that your added confusion about this person is even greater because your not sure what the relationship is!

X


   

[lovers knot]

Lou, ha! Your brain is working overtime because I overwrite and am over-detailed, but hey, can’t say I’m not passionate, right? That’s comical. You know, I don’t know if I’m a hippy at heart, or if I’m merely a hopeless romantic (it sounds so poetic not to use it right now, so voila! Haha!). I don’t want to be a deflector, but a Reflector! Talk about your own problems, as well; I think that our experiences are very similar and unique in that way, which is why our conversations tend to flow and segue. At least, I like to think so.

The thing about the friend zone, is I’m not one to poo-poo that! I mean, granted, as true friends to begin with, and something so intense and lovely as we’ve had, how could one not want that, but on the other hand, the important thing to me right now is just getting back in contact again, and being a good friend. She has called me her “best friend” and that’s great! To me, that is an honor; I don’t take things like that lightly. There may or may not be a chance. She told me once, “[My name], you can’t know what the future holds,” implying that there could be a chance later on; art the time she was struggling, battling, dealing with unemployment, trying to determine what her next step was going to be, etc., so these kinds of thoughts weren’t really in the forefront of her mind. I’d accept an intense friendship as long as I didn’t lose her completely. It goes beyond the thought of getting involved romantically. I cherish important friendships to this degree; we have a spiritual understanding, as well, that also enhanced our connection; she once told me that talking with me, she had never experienced all of the characteristics of having emotional, intellectual and spiritual attraction at the same time, with anyone other than me.

The romantic ‘hints’ that she provided me, and that I provided her, that I mentioned above (holding hands, caressing, her feeling vulnerable and snapping out of it really quick, and whatnot) was like a signal of sorts; the connection was indeed “there” for her to take my hand, hold it and caress me. One just doesn’t do that with anyone. I know that I don’t!

I agree about how they’re often drawn to more abusive relationships, so that could be one thing. Maybe I should take Alice Cooper’s advice, and “No more Mr. Nice Guy!” Ha! Joking, of course.

Have you ever read where there are certain pwBPD that KNOW that their Non is “good for them,” and that they love that person, cherish them, care about them, but they’ll end up pushing them away, perhaps briefly or for a while, because of the fear of being with someone that truly loves them, because they feel like they aren’t worthy of such love? In my case, I feel like my friend KNOWS she is worthy, KNOWS that I would be a good person for her, and knows that I would love her unconditionally and treat her so well, and do all of the good things, thinking of her first, putting myself last, etc., all of these things, but she can’t handle the emotion of it right now, and has pushed me away, and also pushed me away for all of the reasons I’ve mentioned above, as well, which I think had a part in it.

It’s difficult when there’s no communication at this point, and sometimes the thought of being cut off completely is difficult for me to handle. The “I wonders” come back often. The whole idea of: “how long will this go on?” These are typical thoughts, like anyone has. So many unanswered questions, and those questions cannot be answered when you’re out in left in complete silence.

And so! The clock continues to tick! 

[Lou12]

This lady is a little bit of a mystery to me lovers knot. Usually I'm very initiative about my BPDs behaviour and certainly the behaviour behind a lot of BPDs is easier for me to understand but I'm confused about this females intentions! If I'm confused then I suspect you are doubly so!

Please let me know how this one plays out as it'll certainly give myself and others a broader understanding of the mysterious mind of a BPD.

Now it's the waiting game but I always maintain that if you trigger their BPD behaviour it is because they care so maybe you can gage something from this.

My BPDs behaviour got worse the more intense the relationship become. Gas lighting, manipulation, projection, anger, jealousy, stalking, silent treatments, splitting, triangulating, dissociate symptoms during stressful times with me... .I don't believe any of these things would of occurred if he didn't love me in his way so maybe you can get an idea it any of this has been done to you?

X

[Lou12]

Apologies Lovers knot I didn't get the last part of your message and yes your very right in saying a BPD can push someone away that they care for and that would be good for them. Would they push them away without securing them first through the idealisation phase I'm not sure so that maybe worth looking at. I know this stage of the relationship seems imperative to a BPD.

X

[LostGhost]

Is there a possibility she's met someone and started a romantic relationship? In that case I could understand why she's putting up distance so as not to lead you on or cause you to get the wrong impression. The friendship you share seems intense and probably not appropriate if she is now involved with someone, for example she wouldn't be lying in the same bed with you or caressing you if she is now with someone.

If she's not, maybe she's uncomfortable wth her own feelings and backing off a bit to get in touch with what you mean to her. Probably just overwhelmed with all the aspects of life. Maybe send another handwritten letter after some time? She said she liked receiving them?

[lovers knot]

Lou, did you initially know that your pwBPD had BPD right off-bat, or did you have to figure out for yourself via his actions, or whatever? It's interesting that some pwBPD will tell people about it right away, after meeting them, or perhaps a few days later. I was just curious as to what point you found out about his BPD?

Yes, the mystery! I don't think that Sherlock Holmes could handle this!

I'll definitely let you know of any updates if something crops up! The waiting game. Yes.

Interesting your comment:

"... .but I always maintain that if you trigger their BPD behaviour it is because they care so maybe you can gage something from this."

I've never heard of that one before! Very interesting, and I could certainly see that as being the case. If we didn't trigger them at all, and if they weren't invested somehow, in some way, then it'd be like, "Nah, just not feeling it--go away" and wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place, friend or more or whatever the status of the relationship may be. Very complex, all of this!

Have you studied up more on how you can perhaps have better communication with him in the future if it comes to that? We spoke about 'SET' the other day, and you said that you looked into it. There are so many great sources out there that have been proven helps. Like you said before, you feel like your behavior was what really triggered it, and had you known before (how many times have I read that from Nons lately?), you would have acted differently, but looking ahead with the sources that are available, there's a lot to still be learned and to perform. I think you'd benefit from it.

It sounds like your pwBPD has given you the full gamut for BPD characteristics! I suppose I can count my blessings that I've never been on the end of lashing out, or physical violence or any of these 'acting out' type people. I do believe that my mother has significant traits of BPD, as well, as I walked on egg-shells when I was growing up a lot, often truly in a state of hypervigilance, dysfunctional family, no emotional investments from most people, broken family, favoritism abound, and you name it.

Maybe this is one reason why *I* behave the way that I behave, and perhaps why I can relate a lot to my dear friend with BPD.

We definitely went through the idealisation phase, and it was glorious! I do believe that she's genuine in what she says. Had I known about BPD before all of this happened, I think she and I would still be talking... .(I think--ha!)

[lovers knot]

Is there a possibility she's met someone and started a romantic relationship? In that case I could understand why she's putting up distance so as not to lead you on or cause you to get the wrong impression. The friendship you share seems intense and probably not appropriate if she is now involved with someone, for example she wouldn't be lying in the same bed with you or caressing you if she is now with someone.

If she's not, maybe she's uncomfortable wth her own feelings and backing off a bit to get in touch with what you mean to her. Probably just overwhelmed with all the aspects of life. Maybe send another handwritten letter after some time? She said she liked receiving them?

It's possible, yes, but I just don't know. I know that she once said that she "didn't need a man to survive and live a happy life" a few months ago on her Facebook, after she left the metropolitan city and moved down to a smaller, country town with her family, and start anew. She's been in detrimental relationships in the past--one of them for 8 years (shockingly!), and her last boyfriend treated her terribly: control freak, a total jerk, dysfunctional and completely ruinous to her well-being. She spoke like she hated it, but perhaps she secretly liked it, especially since she didn't completely depart from him, as he's still a 'friend' on Facebook, which is interesting to me.

Anyway, I could definitely understand if she's with someone to put up distance with me, but I don't know if that is what is going on, and I think it's more of what you said about her being hyper-focused, uncomfortable with her own feelings, and apparently needs a long time to self-soothe? I agree that she's probably just overwhelmed. She's got a lot going on with her new identity, and she's probably get fulfilled by new co-workers, being validated in those ways, and the whole shebang.

I like the idea of sending another handwritten letter at some point if this keeps going on; yes, she seemed to like them! I just don't know if it's a good idea or not, especially since she may think it makes me look 'weak' or that my boundaries were somehow 'weakened'. It's difficult to discern what to think, other than that I'm being ignored. I've pondered sending her something via mail, but have been naturally ambivalent about it... .

[Lou12]

Hey Lovers knot, I will tell you about the reveal of BPD in a bit of a roundabout way and holding a few things back. I leave out some big details from my posts because in all honesty I would not trust that he wouldn't see it.

Was only thinking earlier about how I really really believed my phone was hacked some how but I brushed it off when ppl were telling me 'your paranoid' but I swear every time I'm split black everything on my phone stops happening! Crazy I don't know but anyways that hasn't happened for 6 months now!

Basically picked up little bits about his character and things he said over the course of a few months. Having worked in mental health and having ppl around me with BPD traits and 1 diagnosed BPD I noticed red flags. Within a few months he basically told me he had issues with regulating his emotions and he knew to much medical jargon for the layman. Then during a dissociative episode he sought medical help and was hospitalised for a few days but told me it was for something else so overall he has not told me directly that he has been diagnosed BPD (I know he's under medical care) but he has by all the things he's told me but without saying the words if you know what I mean. During stressful times he literally fits 8 DSM criteria so he's pretty high on the spectrum I'd say. Yet to see the suicidal ideation but he tries to hide a lot but I see right through him.

Yes still reading snip bits on SET.  Although most of my free time is spent on here talking to you guys haha!

X

[lovers knot]

Lou, hey, you know it's funny that you mentioned that you've held back about certain details about your situation, because he may see your posts, and it's interesting that you mentioned that because just yesterday I thought to myself, "What if she's reading these posts?" I actually thought deeply about making THIS thread specifically for that reason; I've posted the exact texts that she last sent to me on August 11th, and all of these details, and I start thinking, like, "What if she discovers this thread and reads all throughout it?" One thing would be is that she couldn't say that I never truly cared enough to reach out, discuss, learn about her disorder; most normal minds would be flattered, methinks, but in this case, she may be appalled (although who knows what to think anymore! Ha!).

Anyway, interesting that your phone may have been hacked! In this day and age, being "paranoid" isn't always a negative thing that people think it is; you really have to be careful, and can't be too careful. I've been on the receiving end of being hacked a few years back (my email), and it wasn't fun, so I can understand the sensitivities there!

So, he basically told you within a few months, but you saw the red flags. I can understand that, especially in your field, and having been around people diagnosed with BPD, like you said in the other thread when we were discussing this stuff. Interesting that he actually reached out and sought medical help and was hospitalized, too; was this something that you had a hand in, or was he merely doing this for himself? I suppose you found out later? I do know understand what you mean, yes!

The fact that he fits 8 different criteria is definitely a high spectrum there, and apparently you've really been through a lot with this person, because like you said, you've basically "seen it all" with him; I mean, I'm compassionate about that, to both parties. It makes my little situation by being given the ST/ignored look like nothing in comparison, although I think the pain is heavy in any situation such as this, but you get the idea!

The last correspondence with him was how long ago now? You're in the NC/ignore void, as well, but do you still long to talk to him, and whatnot? What do you want at this point? I'm so glad you're looking more into SET! There are so many proven sources out there that's beneficial for us, and it's great to see them actually working in peoples' relationships with their pwBPD (I think of ptidla, as a good example).

Always enjoy the conversation, my friend!

[LostGhost]

Is there a possibility she's met someone and started a romantic relationship? In that case I could understand why she's putting up distance so as not to lead you on or cause you to get the wrong impression. The friendship you share seems intense and probably not appropriate if she is now involved with someone, for example she wouldn't be lying in the same bed with you or caressing you if she is now with someone.

If she's not, maybe she's uncomfortable wth her own feelings and backing off a bit to get in touch with what you mean to her. Probably just overwhelmed with all the aspects of life. Maybe send another handwritten letter after some time? She said she liked receiving them?

It's possible, yes, but I just don't know. I know that she once said that she "didn't need a man to survive and live a happy life" a few months ago on her Facebook, after she left the metropolitan city and moved down to a smaller, country town with her family, and start anew. She's been in detrimental relationships in the past--one of them for 8 years (shockingly!), and her last boyfriend treated her terribly: control freak, a total jerk, dysfunctional and completely ruinous to her well-being. She spoke like she hated it, but perhaps she secretly liked it, especially since she didn't completely depart from him, as he's still a 'friend' on Facebook, which is interesting to me.

Anyway, I could definitely understand if she's with someone to put up distance with me, but I don't know if that is what is going on, and I think it's more of what you said about her being hyper-focused, uncomfortable with her own feelings, and apparently needs a long time to self-soothe? I agree that she's probably just overwhelmed. She's got a lot going on with her new identity, and she's probably get fulfilled by new co-workers, being validated in those ways, and the whole shebang.

I like the idea of sending another handwritten letter at some point if this keeps going on; yes, she seemed to like them! I just don't know if it's a good idea or not, especially since she may think it makes me look 'weak' or that my boundaries were somehow 'weakened'. It's difficult to discern what to think, other than that I'm being ignored. I've pondered sending her something via mail, but have been naturally ambivalent about it... .

That's one of the curious quirks about BPD where they paint many of their exes blacker than black. My ex used to tell horror stories about each and every one of her exes, there was just nothing redeemable about them in her eyes. Then guess what? She left me for one of those terrible exes. Then she left him to come back go me and he killed himself sometime after. Then she left me... .for who this time I have no idea. But I guarantee she's telling him the same awful things about her exes including me now.

They change facts to match their feelings sometimes. And yet I still love her, have a terrible longing for her. She's a good person with a good heart but the disorder and her poor decisions cause her to have an unhappy life, even if she has everyone else fooled on Facebook or in real life how great her life is and how happy she feels. The second last day I saw her she told me she was ready to die, she couldn't take the pain any more. Not suicidal, but ready to go. I comforted her and spent the night with her, she told me I was all she had, the only person who genuinely cared. The next day it was over.

My ex liked to say that too, she doesn't need men, she's am independent woman. But she's never been alone since she was 16. Even when not in a serious relationship, she was on dating websites seeking validation and companions even if they lived halfway around the world. I don't think they can truly be alone. Maybe you weren't even replaced by a romantic partner but some other source of validation? This guy on her Facebook maybe. It's painful. I know the kind of sacrificial love you offered her, it's similar to how I loved my ex. Always put her needs before my own. And it burned me in the end.

I'm not sure about the mail/letter myself. I'm considering trying to write a short succinct one myself. A text or email just seems impersonal. But friends have also warned me it will make me look needy/weak and push her away more. I honestly don't know what to do, that's why I'm stuck between undecided, leaving, staying. I want her back... .so what's my best option? Everything I have read indicates no contact, eventually they will come to you. But what if she doesn't? Ever? Am I prepared for that outcome. Right now I don't like to imagine that outcome.

I wish you luck with whatever course of action you decide is best for you, for her and for your friendship.