is it personal?

[enlighten me]

Hi MrHollande

Yes it is personal but like everything to do with us its how personally we take it. This might sound like new age BS and I can understand that.

I can understand your anger and bitterness. I have been there. Anger is an important part of the healing process but at some point you have to let it go.

I realised that a lot of my anger was actually at myself. I had allowed myself to be treated like I had. I had dismissed the red flags and talked myself out of them. I wasn't without blame. Im not saying my ex was blameless. Far from it but I could have walked away at any time and nearly did on numerous occasions. I chose to stay. I chose to put up with the abuse. I made a lot of bad choices not that this excuses my exs behaviour but I have to see my part in it.

[michel71]

I think early on it feels very personal. It can stay feeling very personal for quite awhile even with educating oneself on the disorder. As one gets closer to RA it gets less and less personal especially if one has started the detachment process.

[Michelle27]

I got stuck for years thinking it was personal.  I stumbled onto the existence of BPD 5 years ago when I was trying to make sense of his behaviors and my confusion. I remember reading about looking at my own part in the dysfunction and dismissing it, aside from working on validating him more and walking away more often and sooner when he raged.  But I still felt like a victim and put a lot of energy into wishing for and pushing for him to get help to be "fixed" so our relationship could work again.  I would say that the past year was when things finally fell into place for me when the pain and confusion, anger and resentments got to me too much so that I put myself into therapy.  So much was put into place for me as far as my own part in allowing the relationship to continue as long as it did. I take responsibility for that and am working hard to make the changes I need to so that I never again end up in such a dysfunctional relationship.  I know now that if I don't make the changes I need to in myself (and I'm well on my way) it's no one else's fault if I allow myself to be treated badly other than my own.  

[Mr Hollande]

Enlighten Me,

I've asked this question before. The person closest to you in the world, perhaps ever, betrays you in the most cold and sadistic way, how is that not personal?

Yes we learn, we detach, we establish boundaries, we let go and eventually go on stronger, better and happier. Doesn't change the fact that what we've been through is personal. One reason this is so brutally painful is because of how personal it is but the eternal catch phrase "it's nothing personal" remains. There needs to be a rethink regarding that in my opinion.

[HappyNihilist]

Michelle, I'm so glad you've found a good therapist and are taking care of and discovering yourself. 

I got stuck for years thinking it was personal.  

I remember reading about looking at my own part in the dysfunction and dismissing it,

But I still felt like a victim and put a lot of energy into wishing for and pushing for him to get help to be "fixed" so our relationship could work again.

I know now that if I don't make the changes I need to in myself (and I'm well on my way) it's no one else's fault if I allow myself to be treated badly other than my own.  

Taking ownership of ourselves is the most important thing we can do to help us build a happy, healthy life. 

I agree with michel - the closer one gets to radical acceptance, the less personal it feels.

That process takes a while. The wounds have to get less raw. But RA is something to strive for, or else it's easy to get stuck.

[willtimeheal]

I do understand my part and I take full responsibility for it. I am in therapy and have been for a while. Therapy made me stronger and gave me the tools I needed to walk away from my ex and the tools I needed to work on myself. It still hurts and I have been told it take  time to heal... .well it's been a year and I still have moments. I would like to not have any moments anymore. I would not like to have her cross my mind at all.

I agree with hollande.  It's hard not to take it personally. I told this person everything my deepest fears secrets etc and then she used them to crush me.  That's personal. And I just have a I had  to me saying it  ok you are mentally ill. No you don't do that to people.

[Darsha500]

After her first breakdown in which she insulted me profusely, I told my ex I thought she was malicious. She, sort of surprised, asked what she said that was malicious. I mentioned that she had devalued me by harping on the fact that i couldn't orgasm inside her. She said that her rationale behind this was that her self-esteem was tied to whether she could get a man to orgasm... .Yah kindof twisted, I know. Another thing she had told me was that I should just go out and have sex with somebody, that I just need to get laid. This was also conveyed as a devaluation of me. She said that she suggested that I do that so that she could get over me, or have an excuse to be done with me.

So i find it interesting that both of those very personal devaluations were driven by her symptoms: her low self-esteem/shame issues, and her fear of abandonment. They were motivated by her disordered personality. Personality being the characteristic and unique way in which one interfaces with reality.

How can one simply say, "Oh its just because she has a personality disorder that she berated me in such a personal way." Hmmm. bear with me here. Could you use that excuse/explanation for someone who didn't have a personality disorder and berated you? "Oh its just because of his personality that he berated me in such a personal way."

I think you could. At bottom it is the structure of one's personality that, in large part, dictates these things, personality disorder or not. This does not of course negate free will.


I recently heard a very profound definition of forgiveness: To forgive is to acknowledge that the recipient of forgiveness is an imperfect human; an imperfect human, like all humans, who is very susceptible for error.

Error: the state or condition of being wrong in conduct or judgment.

Just some thoughts from a clever clog.

[enlighten me]

Hi MrHollande

Like Ive said I agree it is personal. What we need to bear in mind is there are different levels of personal.

If someone crashes into your car its personal but its not a malicious act. If someone targets you, stalks you and systematically ruins your life that is personal and malicious.

The problem with BPD relationships is that in the beginning they've not actively targeted you to ruin your life. They want what we all want. The happy ever after. The walking of into the sunset life. By the end their actions may seem malicious and sometimes they are.

I suppose what Im getting at is when the person we love more than anyone else betrays us it cuts deep. By believing they did it on purpose and it was always their intention helps at first but you eventually have to let go of that.

[Darsha500]

Ooo,

Heres another question: Does one's personality limit their free will? I would suggest that it does. Jean Paul Sarte would likely disagree.

[enlighten me]

Hi Darsha

I think personality does affect how we behave. You only have to look at any school class and you will see it. The quiet shy guy or girl who is cautious of everything. The cocky one who doesn't care about consequences. The flirt who uses this to get what they want.

[Mr Hollande]

In suicide land there is the following catch phrase: Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Sounds clever, doesn't it? One of my best friends recently took his own life and it was his solution to a lifetime of depression. To apply the above cliché to him is an insult to his life, his achievements and to everyone he knew and loved. His problems weren't temporary, they were for life and he'd had enough. I am devastated by him leaving us so soon but I understand why and I am at peace with it. But anyone who applies the above catch phrase to him has clearly not understood the complexities that lead to his drastic action.

I think the application of "it's nothing personal" to us is as oversimplified, incorrect and on some occasions as tasteless as "it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem" is to victims of suicide.

[Darsha500]

Lets leave the black and white, all or nothing thinking to our BPDexs. ay?

[Mr Hollande]

Hi MrHollande

Like Ive said I agree it is personal. What we need to bear in mind is there are different levels of personal.

If someone crashes into your car its personal but its not a malicious act. If someone targets you, stalks you and systematically ruins your life that is personal and malicious.

The problem with BPD relationships is that in the beginning they've not actively targeted you to ruin your life. They want what we all want. The happy ever after. The walking of into the sunset life. By the end their actions may seem malicious and sometimes they are.

I suppose what Im getting at is when the person we love more than anyone else betrays us it cuts deep. By believing they did it on purpose and it was always their intention helps at first but you eventually have to let go of that.

All fair points and I agree mostly but there is still an over use of that catch phrase. When it's said to me I understand because, although still angry and not ready to forgive, I am a year out and detached enough to know the not personal aspect. Someone new here often won't which can make it a very callous thing to say. There is a time and a place for it.

And regardless how detached we become, it will remain personal. Why else would so many chose to stay and help others here year after year? Because it's affected them personally.

Speaking of myself I'm ready to accept the not deliberate up until the very last thing she did and said to me. It had all the intentions of a child pulling the wings off an insect with total glee. There's a difference when an executioner chops your head off because it pays the bills or because he enjoys it. I have a hard time getting passed the deliberate part.

[enlighten me]

I agree the blanket statement of its nothing personal isn't helpful. Its not a magic statement where people say "oh that's ok then" and miraculously move on with their life.

A statement of its not as personal as your taking it is also not helpful as it casts judgement on the non.

Whats needed is an understanding of how the disorder affects the pwBPD and more importantly for us our part in it and the consequences of our actions. All too often people arrive here and believe they are at fault for everything. They believe they deserved what happened to them. They ruminate and ask what could I have done differently. We all have done things whether we know it or not that have triggered our exs. Whether its their fear of engulfment because weve done everything for them or their fear of abandonment because we have given them their own space it doesn't matter. What matters is we weren't properly equipped.

I suppose this is the crux of the its not personal statement because their disorder made them retaliate to our misunderstanding of their needs triggering their disordered behaviour.

I suppose "their behaviour is not personal but their reaction is" would be more fitting.

[myself]

Owning our part is one thing, and healthy. Denying some facts to favor others, not so much. Does it really "keep us stuck" to take some of it personally, if some of it was personal? Every relationship was different here, but in many of them many of the actions were done intentionally. The person was out of control but not so much that they didn't know what they were doing, or seeing it was another time in their lives when they were painfully acting out that way. On both sides. I'm sure my ex took some of what I said and did personally, too, because it was. We were two humans in a dance of love and push and pull. I wasn't just a codependent victim putting myself in harm's way by choice, and she wasn't just a disordered jumble of helpless contradictions. Is it a mental illness with a person, or a person with a mental illness? Oh, a person first? Not such a stretch to get to 'personal' then. Especially when the person acts out and aims it at whoever's closest, instead of at themselves. On purpose. To 'survive'. It's usually not at strangers, it's who they know/can hurt the most. Their mirror.

[once removed]

to reiterate: there are no right or wrong answers here. the question "is it personal" is intended to provoke thought and discussion and what the question means to you.

radical acceptance has been mentioned a few times; it is the basis of the lesson of this thread.

here is the article on the concept of radical acceptance, written by marsha linehan: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

how does radical acceptance inform your opinion?

[Michelle27]

to reiterate: there are no right or wrong answers here. the question "is it personal" is intended to provoke thought and discussion and what the question means to you.

radical acceptance has been mentioned a few times; it is the basis of the lesson of this thread.

here is the article on the concept of radical acceptance, written by marsha linehan: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90041.0

how does radical acceptance inform your opinion?

Radical Acceptance was a tough one for me to work through.  While I was separated from my stbxh in what we thought was a therapeutic separation until I realized nothing was going to change and ended things, my therapist wanted me to think about accepting my h the way he was.  There was no way I could accept that at all... .which is why we were separated. 

When I was finally able to wrap my head around this and take ownership of my own "stuff" and realize that there was no way I could live my life hoping for things to get better any longer.  I needed to move on.  That's when I truly realized the difference between accepting the status quo and sort of accepting but hoping things change.  Huge difference.

[Turkish]

RA is hard for me, even though my T pointed to me to it as well: "she is who she is, so why get angry about that?" I struggled with it today when she, during a lunch with the kids and ex-in-laws, accused me of putting stuff in our son's head based upon some angry things he said to her. Shifting blame is what she does.

[HappyNihilist]

RA is hard for me, even though my T pointed to me to it as well: "she is who she is, so why get angry about that?" I struggled with it today when she, during a lunch with the kids and ex-in-laws, accused me of putting stuff in our son's head based upon some angry things he said to her. Shifting blame is what she does.

That has to be hard. 

I'm reminded of a story about the Dalai Lama. I can't remember the details because I have a terrible memory, but I remember the gist. Anyway, the DL visited a monastery that featured a bakery. Their specialties were cookies and bread. To welcome the DL, they gave him some bread, and he graciously accepted it. Later, he told the story and confessed, "But what I really wanted was a cookie!"

In other words - even someone as self-aware, centered, and enlightened as the Dalai Lama has moments when it's hard for him. The rest of us poor souls don't stand a chance.

These things take work. The important thing is that you try. That we all try.