Why do pBPD warn you about themselves?

[search4peace]

This happened to me on our 2nd date, when she said "I hope I don't push you away".  I know this has been described by many on this board, as well.

I couldn't see it as a at the time;  6mo after my b/u after a 3yr r/s, I am still mystified by why she said it.

If her r/s fantasy and need for attachment was so strong, why the warning?  It's like saying "come and eat what I lovingly cooked for you, but I hope you don't get sick or die from food poisoning."

Anyone have any insight into this?

[gameover]

As someone who (in my less scrupulous days) used to warn the girls I got involved with that I was moody, manipulative, and would probably leave them unexpectedly--warning prospective lovers is a highly effective psychological technique that accomplishes several things.

1.  People want what they can't have and a lot of the time if you give them a little push they'll pull.  Such a statement instills a fear of loss (however slightly or subconsciously).  So when you hear something like that you think:  "Well, I'm going to work extra hard to give you a reason not to ever push me away."

2.  Reverse psychology to get an assurance of commitment and the ensuing ego trip.  There's a good chance that you said something like:  "I won't ever let you push me away" or "You couldn't push me away if you tried," etc.  For someone with major insecurity issues and fragile self esteem, this is like candy for the soul.

3.  Establishing a competition.  By implying that she's pushed others away if you can 'make her stay' there's a type of victory there.  You win the game.  

4.  Plausible deniability and alleviation of guilt.  When she does push you away she can always say to herself:  "Welp.  I warned him, didn't I?  He knew what he was getting himself into."   For someone with a shame-based disorder and fear of engulfment this offers a convenient escape.  

5.  Establishing trust.  Most people out to screw you over don't tell you they're out to screw you over.  When someone displays their faults for you without pretense, you're more likely to take it as a confidence than a warning.

6.  Per pwBPD fear of abandonment.  No one I ever told this to walked away--if anything, they viewed me as more intriguing.

Now, I'm not implying that she was consciously manipulating you at that point--in fact, she may have thought she had your best interests in mind and in a moment of clarity felt the need to warn you.  But pwBPD unconsciously use manipulation as a means to survive--and a lot of them have the same grab-bag of tricks.  Because those tricks work.

[Pretty Woman]

Mine was very upfront about things a normal, healthy person would run from.

I know I am healthier and more aware than my ex but clearly I have issues since I stayed with someone who told me these things.

She told me:

-My relationships go straight to hell when my significant other takes classes/grad school.  

-I have never been on a vacation/trip that didn't end in a breakup.  

-History of family violence and abuse.

-Weird sexual history... .leaving partners for other partners and returning.  Alot of recycling amongst partners... .men and women.

-Moves every 3-4yrs and has been fired or layed off from every job.

I read somewhere that the BPD usually tells us what we need to know. Unfortunately we are their White Knights. We try to save them... .then when it all goes to shyt in their mind... .we knew what we were getting into.They DID tell us afterall.

See how that works?

PW

[Pretty Woman]

Brilliant observation, Game Over:

1.  People want what they can't have and a lot of the time if you give them a little push they'll pull.  Such a statement instills a fear of loss (however slightly or subconsciously).  So when you hear something like that you think:  "Well, I'm going to work extra hard to give you a reason not to ever push me away."

[SurfNTurf]

Logically, I understand GameOver's comments. But I had something opposite happen to me; my uBPDhusb, while we were dating, spent great amounts of time asking me about my family of origin, how I was raised, dysfunctions, problems, etc. In retrospect, it's not like he just sat down and interviewed me with a series of questions, but craftily drew me out over a long period of time.

Then he played on my history and fears after we were married (manipulation.)

I had no warning; he was the best boyfriend, I had no reason - despite what people will say - to think he would not continue to be the way he presented himself to be.

[SGraham]

Yeah i got a pretty massive  after our second date. She (while drunk) said "you dont want a crazy btch like me for a girlfriend because i might kill myself and then you'll get hurt". I think i stayed even after something as insane as that because i naively thought i could take care of her. Note- i didnt know she was BPD at the time. I think gameover's theory is rock solid though, that kinda behaviour only endears us nons to our partners in most cases.

[repititionqueen]

As someone who (in my less scrupulous days) used to warn the girls I got involved with that I was moody, manipulative, and would probably leave them unexpectedly--warning prospective lovers is a highly effective psychological technique that accomplishes several things.

1.  People want what they can't have and a lot of the time if you give them a little push they'll pull.  Such a statement instills a fear of loss (however slightly or subconsciously).  So when you hear something like that you think:  "Well, I'm going to work extra hard to give you a reason not to ever push me away."

... .

I won't repost the whole thing but DAMN you have it pinned down!

My ex also warned me about how his relationships don't last and how eventually ours would end.

I was the idiot thinking "I'm different, he's going to stay with me"

I thought things were different with us because he had actually made our relationship "official," whereas he was just 'seeing' the other girls.

He recently wished me a happy birthday after I had gone NC with him.

He said "Hey  wanted to wish you happy birthday, but surprise surprise, I'm late ... anyways , happy belated birthday , i wish you all the best and I hope you're doing well."

He was always late for everything. It's almost like he's trying to be endearing by being late again? As if that's going to work... .

[blissful_camper]

Great question! This is an interesting topic and there's lots of thoughtful insight already.

I was warned as well. I feel that the primary reason my ex warned me was because it aided him in soothing feelings of shame when the disordered-behavior went full-blown.  Since I'd been warned, I was, in his mind, a willing recipient.

[SGraham]

Great question! This is an interesting topic and there's lots of thoughtful insight already.

I was warned as well. I feel that the primary reason my ex warned me was because it aided him in soothing feelings of shame when the disordered-behavior went full-blown.  Since I'd been warned, I was, in his mind, a willing recipient.

Considering how heavily shame factors into BPD, i think that is a very insightful hypothesis. I know my ex is a highly shame driven person.

[gameover]

Logically, I understand GameOver's comments. But I had something opposite happen to me; my uBPDhusb, while we were dating, spent great amounts of time asking me about my family of origin, how I was raised, dysfunctions, problems, etc. In retrospect, it's not like he just sat down and interviewed me with a series of questions, but craftily drew me out over a long period of time.

Then he played on my history and fears after we were married (manipulation.)

I had no warning; he was the best boyfriend, I had no reason - despite what people will say - to think he would not continue to be the way he presented himself to be.

Do you think your ex was more BPD or did he have signs of NPD or ASPD?  While my BPDexgf picked at some of my deep-seated fears and insecurities it was mostly transparent and I hardly got the sense that it was anything that calculated--tho obviously not everyone with BPD is the same.

[Mutt]

Hi search4peace



I understand how we feel mystified and we're trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together in our relationship post-mortems. I think many of our members want to make sense of our losses.

This happened to me on our 2nd date, when she said "I hope I don't push you away".  I know this has been described by many on this board, as well.

I couldn't see it as a at the time;  6mo after my b/u after a 3yr r/s, I am still mystified by why she said it.

If her r/s fantasy and need for attachment was so strong, why the warning?  It's like saying "come and eat what I lovingly cooked for you, but I hope you don't get sick or die from food poisoning."

Anyone have any insight into this?

Someone else said that her ex knew she pushed partners away, did your ex say something similar? Did she talk about her exe's?

[Darsha500]

I've mentioned in other posts that my ex actually gave me the DSM symptoms checklist for BPD when we began dating, telling me to inform her if she was displaying symptoms.

I got the sense she she legitimately was tired of the endless series of failed relationships and truly wanted this one to work out. Hence the warnings and precautions.

[search4peace]

As someone who (in my less scrupulous days) used to warn the girls I got involved with that I was moody, manipulative, and would probably leave them unexpectedly--warning prospective lovers is a highly effective psychological technique that accomplishes several things.

1.  People want what they can't have and a lot of the time if you give them a little push they'll pull.  Such a statement instills a fear of loss (however slightly or subconsciously).  So when you hear something like that you think:  "Well, I'm going to work extra hard to give you a reason not to ever push me away."

2.  Reverse psychology to get an assurance of commitment and the ensuing ego trip.  There's a good chance that you said something like:  "I won't ever let you push me away" or "You couldn't push me away if you tried," etc.  For someone with major insecurity issues and fragile self esteem, this is like candy for the soul.

3.  Establishing a competition.  By implying that she's pushed others away if you can 'make her stay' there's a type of victory there.  You win the game.  

4.  Plausible deniability and alleviation of guilt.  When she does push you away she can always say to herself:  "Welp.  I warned him, didn't I?  He knew what he was getting himself into."   For someone with a shame-based disorder and fear of engulfment this offers a convenient escape.  

5.  Establishing trust.  Most people out to screw you over don't tell you they're out to screw you over.  When someone displays their faults for you without pretense, you're more likely to take it as a confidence than a warning.

6.  Per pwBPD fear of abandonment.  No one I ever told this to walked away--if anything, they viewed me as more intriguing.

WOW... .this makes so much sense!  Thank you for these insights.  I think because I could never imagine saying such things to my partner, it helps me see more clearly how disordered she was and how utterly different her mind worked.

She tested/warned me like this a few more times in our r/s but by then I was too deep and would have done almost anything to please her.  Really painful to think about my behavior and how I was so blind to this manipulation.

MUTT: as to the question about talking about her exes, she did but only described them as unfeeling, emotionally unavailable men who hurt or abandoned her.  Never admitted that she played any role in their leaving.

R-Queen: Mine was always late too... .for virtually everything!  I eventually rationalized it by saying it was part of her undiagnosed ADD, but now I wonder if it was part of her subconscious manipulation game.  :)amn... .

[search4peace]

2.  Reverse psychology to get an assurance of commitment and the ensuing ego trip.  There's a good chance that you said something like:  "I won't ever let you push me away" or "You couldn't push me away if you tried," etc.  For someone with major insecurity issues and fragile self esteem, this is like candy for the soul.

You are right... .that is pretty much what I said.  When she said it, I read it as "I hope I dont drive you away by loving you so much". This, of course, was me doubling the dose of heroin and hearing exactly what I wanted to hear.

[apollotech]

Not a warning, just part of the victim narrative, woe is me. The warnings tie in nicely with the stories of horrible, abusive exes. (Are those horrible, abusive exes now not blamed for the pwBPD's now state of brokenness?) Predation at its finest; they draw us closer in with their victim telling narratives. Those tales pull on our wanting to help.

Believe it or not, it's part of idealization, used to secure the attachment. In contrast, these same statements made during devaluation become plausible blame statements (Blaming the Non for staying in the relationship after being warned.), I told you I was a bad person. (Feigned responsibility is taken for their actions during idealization [I hope I don't push you away.], but responsibility is given to the Non during devaluation, [I told you I was a bad person.].)

[JQ]

I've mentioned in other posts that my ex actually gave me the DSM symptoms checklist for BPD when we began dating, telling me to inform her if she was displaying symptoms.

I got the sense she she legitimately was tired of the endless series of failed relationships and truly wanted this one to work out. Hence the warnings and precautions.

Darsha,

My exBPDgf has been in therapy off & on for 25 years and at times I see clarity in her eyes, her emotions, her behavior & the things she says. She has told me she wants to understand why she behaves the way she does with people she cares about, me, her kids, etc.  She has asked me to attend a couple of therapy sessions with her, told me some of what they discuss in order to adjust her behavior. She just this week has told me she wants to understand why she can be with her current bf while at the same time have a "conversation affair" with me at the same time. She says it's not fair to either one of us. She's told me she knows it's going to end with him soon because he doesn't provide the things in a relationship she needs unlike me ... .or so I'm told. She wants to continue to speak with her therapist why she can do this. She knows it's not right ... .she wants to stop. She has told me something similar that she wasn't to end the failed relationships including two ex-husbands.  Just this week she texted me, " You're amazing in the love that you show me by still being here even through all my frustrations."  I've set some boundaries ... .and for the most part she is staying within the boundaries ... .she sticks a toe or two over them but she doesn't out right blow them off ... .it's like dealing with a 3 year old at times.

JQ

[WhatJustHappened?]

Not a warning, just part of the victim narrative, woe is me. The warnings tie in nicely with the stories of horrible, abusive exes. (Are those horrible, abusive exes now not blamed for the pwBPD's now state of brokenness?) Predation at its finest; they draw us closer in with their victim telling narratives. Those tales pull on our wanting to help.

Believe it or not, it's part of idealization, used to secure the attachment. In contrast, these same statements made during devaluation become plausible blame statements (Blaming the Non for staying in the relationship after being warned.), I told you I was a bad person. (Feigned responsibility is taken for their actions during idealization [I hope I don't push you away.], but responsibility is given to the Non during devaluation, [I told you I was a bad person.].)

Oh boy, that hits home. My exBPgf painted a very ugly picture of her husband. Abusive, etc. I was told they were separated and I hope for his sake I was told the truth otherwise I will feel very bad since we had 'relations'. Maybe he was horrible, maybe he wasn't.

For me, my warning came in the form of "welcome to my world" when I expressed empathy when my exBPDgf was having a lot of "manufactured drama".

It is just astounding to me to read all of these similar stories and more importantly, the trail of destruction BPD leaves behind. It's like a tornando ripping through your life.

[pallavirajsinghani]

I wonder what would happen if we replied (in a soft, non-judgmental, neutral tone),  "Well, if you push me away, I will respect your wishes and go away."

What exactly is the purpose of any relationship?

To make good memories together... .one after another and continue to do so until the end of life... .and when a relationship does not permit that, then it is of no use.

[search4peace]

For me, my warning came in the form of "welcome to my world" when I expressed empathy when my exBPDgf was having a lot of "manufactured drama".

Eerily similar... .or identical to my experience.   Manufactured drama... .seemed one of the few constants in our r/s.  E.g... .when she was convinced she suddenly had developed some rare form of cancer, I made the fatal error of reacting first with a need to understand with my rational/logical mind, and was dunned for not showing sufficient empathy.  This was only one example of the no-win scenarios I danced around and never quite mastered.

[WhatJustHappened?]

Did we date the same person? Mine told me she had a inoperable tumor with multiple ER visits. Mind you, we had a LD relationship so I could not verify. I offered to come be with her to help but was denied. I wonder why? Then it was all clear when I tried to call the hospital to check to see if she was admitted only to find that she wasn't there (she was suppose to be).

[Pretty Woman]

The manufactured drama they create regarding illnesses they also create about you to others.

I am satan to her family. It's bad enough to have low self-esteem and issues from childhood with abandonment... .now there's a whole group of people who are terrified of me.

I can't walk down the hall at my job without wondering... .will today be the day her sister falsely reports me to HR (she's threatened this).

They are bullies. Rotten people.  I'm sorry guys.  I'm in the anger stage of this.

Why would we ever want people who lie like that. I mean they lie about having cancer... .they slander good people.

Everyday I get closer to letting go. This wasn't a relationship. It was three years of hell.

[JQ]

The manufactured drama they create regarding illnesses they also create about you to others.

I am satan to her family. It's bad enough to have low self-esteem and issues from childhood with abandonment... .now there's a whole group of people who are terrified of me.

I can't walk down the hall at my job without wondering... .will today be the day her sister falsely reports me to HR (she's threatened this).

They are bullies. Rotten people.  I'm sorry guys.  I'm in the anger stage of this.

Why would we ever want people who lie like that. I mean they lie about having cancer... .they slander good people.

Everyday I get closer to letting go. This wasn't a relationship. It was three years of hell.

Pretty woman,

It sounds as if you're having a real bad day ... .    We all have them ... .I know it can be beyond frustrating ... .it can make a person to drink ... .water of course    A little sense of humor to hopefully make you smile.  It's not you ... .you know this.  You have to look deep into the situation and see if there is really a reason to stay or go? If she's not willing to get help/counseling on  her own ... .you already know that YOU Can't fix this & YOU can't Control it!  If boundaries are in place and she constantly pushes those boundaries without consequences then reenforce them.

Take a deep breath ... .find a happy place ... .relax ... .recenter yourself ... .

JQ

[Pretty Woman]

JQ,

  Thanks! I'm just venting.  Better here than anywhere else!



My ex left in May. Reconnected with her sister that threatened me, has a new gf. I don't plan on ever hearing from her. Right now I am angry. I want to keep this anger for awhile in the event she does pop up. She burned me really bad this time. I'm not expecting it to be honest.

[Eye438]

JQ,

  Thanks! I'm just venting.  Better here than anywhere else!



My ex left in May. Reconnected with her sister that threatened me, has a new gf. I don't plan on ever hearing from her. Right now I am angry. I want to keep this anger for awhile in the event she does pop up. She burned me really bad this time. I'm not expecting it to be honest.

Realistically, your lover is mentally ill and you can't change that, that is how I have coped and yes there are stages. I just left a five year relationship and the hard part for me is putting myself back together, it was a roller coaster, not good for anyone.

[myself]

If it's "not about us", then pwBPD are trying to warn themselves.

Perhaps in those early rushes of "new love" there's some clarity.

Then the disorder takes over again and... ."Relationships" happen.

[JQ]

JQ,

  Thanks! I'm just venting.  Better here than anywhere else!



My ex left in May. Reconnected with her sister that threatened me, has a new gf. I don't plan on ever hearing from her. Right now I am angry. I want to keep this anger for awhile in the event she does pop up. She burned me really bad this time. I'm not expecting it to be honest.

Realistically, your lover is mentally ill and you can't change that, that is how I have coped and yes there are stages. I just left a five year relationship and the hard part for me is putting myself back together, it was a roller coaster, not good for anyone.

Hi eye,

I know the 3 C's of BPD, that I can't cure it or change it. Five years in any relationship is a long time invested  ... .if you don't mind me asking what was it after five years in your BPD r/s made you decide to get off the roller coaster ride?  I'm going on 3 years of on again off again r/s ... .currently being painted more white again as she continues to paint current bf more black. He isn't the one I'm told, he just got out of a 10 yr r/s & doesn't want to get married, his kids are grown up & out of the house & doesn't want to deal with the day to day issues and drama of my young kids, we have different values, we want different things in life, but he keeps me from being lonely since you're not here. I live 1/2 way across the country ... .it's enough to make a person drink ... .

JQ

[Eye438]

JQ,

  Thanks! I'm just venting.  Better here than anywhere else!



My ex left in May. Reconnected with her sister that threatened me, has a new gf. I don't plan on ever hearing from her. Right now I am angry. I want to keep this anger for awhile in the event she does pop up. She burned me really bad this time. I'm not expecting it to be honest.

Realistically, your lover is mentally ill and you can't change that, that is how I have coped and yes there are stages. I just left a five year relationship and the hard part for me is putting myself back together, it was a roller coaster, not good for anyone.

Hi eye,

I know the 3 C's of BPD, that I can't cure it or change it. Five years in any relationship is a long time invested  ... .if you don't mind me asking what was it after five years in your BPD r/s made you decide to get off the roller coaster ride?  I'm going on 3 years of on again off again r/s ... .currently being painted more white again as she continues to paint current bf more black. He isn't the one I'm told, he just got out of a 10 yr r/s & doesn't want to get married, his kids are grown up & out of the house & doesn't want to deal with the day to day issues and drama of my young kids, we have different values, we want different things in life, but he keeps me from being lonely since you're not here. I live 1/2 way across the country ... .it's enough to make a person drink ... .

JQ

Trust. I could not trust her. She was like a loose cannon and also her agenda the last year was to keep people out of my life, friends, and family. Picking fights with me and so on. She wanted to leave and I thank god for that, I wasn't sure how to get her out. She did it for me! It feels so good to have calm and be settled just to feel my own feelings about myself and take inventory to evaluate the psychological and emotional damage I absorbed over and over. Honestly it's like a rediscovery of me that got lost trying to fix her. I can't fix anyone, only me.

After she moved out over a month ago I got depressed and now have some severe mood swings. Not enough to debilitate me but enough to get my attention and deal with my broken self. It will take a while but I have good support of friends and family that know me very well and witnessed my own spiritual collapse. No one should have to live that way voluntarily it's a suicide mission with a BPD as far as I am concerned. Hope you get the help you need!