Potty training concerns

[Turkish]

I thought about posting this on CP, but given some of the stories here, maybe it fits better:

The other day, S5.7 (6 early next year) asked me to help him in the bathroom. I asked for what? He wanted me to wipe him, "because I don't do it good." He was insistent. So was I. I said he was a big boy, no longer a baby, and that he could do it as he has been. I asked him if anyone else wipes his butt, and he said "Mommy." Is it normal to still be doing this at his age?

We went through this earlier in the year. My Ex asked me and I said no. If he gets slightly irritated, he'll learn. Besides, the kids get baths every other night (used to be every night), so the bath will clean it.

Grandma (uBPD Hermit-Waif) was also wiping him. It could be that it's gone back to that after the kids weren't at that house all summer, but new are back. My Ex gets a lot of her anxieties from her mom. My Ex was still insisting on toweling D3 between her legs after baths, even after D3 told her, "don't touch it!" My Ex told me, and I told her to stop doing that.

Am I making something out of nothing? Being to much like a guy, not appreciating motherhood? Of course if S5 is sick or has a blow out, I'll help him.

[Enoughforme]

Humm that is interesting.  Yes G-ma use to wipe my son tush all the time. Same reason because he could not do it good enough for her. And those are the most important words. I never thought of that before. I think you are right a few bad times and he will learn.

[Turkish]

"Not good enough for her,". Right!

She's also had him wipe his penis with a tissue. I get it. Cleanliness. However, he's going to be ridiculed at some point when he does that in a communal bathroom.

[Auslaunder]

Turkish,

Kids should be getting this right by age 4 with no supervision needed. My boyfriends son has very severe ADHD so hes behaviorly behind and he doesn't have issues. At age 6-7 children should start really acting independent of their mother. Maybe she feels anxious about him growing up? They shouldnt be having the same attachments they had in kindergarten, more attachments with friends. I think this is emotionally unhealthy for the child. Parents have to facilitate the child's development not do everything for the child. She might be a bit OCD too and it's tough to break parenting habits your parents modeled for you. Maybe you can convince her it is for the best to allow him to make some mistakes.

[Turkish]

I have some physical OCD traits (repititions), but nothing disablling. Only people close to me notice it.

You might be right on that, the obession with routines and cleanliness. I remember the weekend cleaning rampages well... .I'll talk to her in a nice way. I can do that; she listens. I was more vehement with her drying D3. That was just after the molestation by my Ex's younger brother, and D3 was anxious, too. Still, my Ex didn't stop until I told her. She often can't see how she is affecting the kids.  She didn't get it. I fear more the emotional enmeshment with our son, or that he's "not good enough." Shame. Dependency. .

[HappyChappy]

"Not good enough for her,". Right!

She's also had him wipe his penis with a tissue. I get it. Cleanliness. However, he's going to be ridiculed at some point when he does that in a communal bathroom.

Agrea with the above. 6 is too old, but then kids all develope at different speeds and ways, so I wouldn't say this in isolation is anything to worry about. As part of the bigger picture, maybe.

[Sunfl0wer]

My thought is... .

If S is wiping enough on his own that there are clean underwear at the end of the day, on most days, then he has wiped well enough, no?

My S at this age did have difficulties wiping due to his disability.  However, I was able to keep baby wipes by the toilet and teach him to throw them in the garbage after he was done vs flushing.  I also spent time teaching him the concept of wiping by him cleaning off the dinning room table and such.  My point is that although he has a disability, it was in fact my expectation that I guide him towards independence not dependence for this personal task that his peers were doing independently.

It is clear to me when someone simply says their kid "needs" help with xyz and "cannot" therefore enabling helplessness vs enabling the child with tools and strategies for further independence.

I would ask him "why" he doesn't feel he did it good enough.

Give him a way to judge for himself: Are your underpants usually dirty? Can you wipe until the paper is clean?  Or some other way for him to self monitor vs asking mom or an adult. 

Wiping the penis seems ridiculous and controlling to me?  I've only known one guy ever to do that because he didn't like to shake off the last drip for whatever reason. 

I suppose I am the opposite and worry more about unnecessary genital preoccupation vs cleanliness.  I rather see a small yellow underwear stain than preoccupation and worry over a boy's penis.  It is his penis after all, to wipe or not wipe as he sees fit.

It bothers me the amount of people who are not comfortable with their bodies, their sexuality and feel guilt or shame at the reality of their genitals.

[GaGrl]

Good practical advice here... .just buy Cottonelle and put it on the back of the toilet.

[enlighten me]

My son who is now 12 and would kill me if I knew I was writing this didn't do a good job and he had skid marks for many years. What helped was I got some of the flushable wet wipes. He found these better and the skid marks disappeared. It then seemed that the transition to toilet paper wasn't a problem.

I can understand the wanting to ensure he was clean but at his age it should really be encouraging to do a good job not doing it for him.

As someone else said it could be that she just cant let go of her baby and needs to feel that he is dependant on her.

[Turkish]

Logistically, this isn't a problem. I do see it as an issue related to possible engulfment and infantilization. When I first met their uncle, for example, my Ex was cutting his pancakes still. He was 9. I commented on it at the restaurant, and she stopped. Uncle then 14 piped up, "yeah, you should be cutting your own pancakes." U9 just sat there and let his sister do it. He's the one who molested D3 at 17 this past summer. I'm not perfect by a long shot. Maybe I spent too much time on the computer today, for instance, rather than with the kids.

Its sending signals to a kid that he might not be good enough, projecting a parent's anxieties when there really isn't a problem, and not teaching a child to be independent. Depending upon the extent, it could lead to him developing both shame and dependency.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi Turkish,

My ExuN/BPDtraits and his uBPDexW both infantilized and were enmeshed my SD9-15.  These type of things came up constantly and it was a bit hard to point out without offending/triggering him, therefore causing him to exaggerate infantilising her.  (To protect her from my efforts to raise her to be more independent)

I think the best course was always just dealing with SD directly. (Vs trying to get BF on board). I tried to always casually send the message:

-You are in charge of your body, your feelings, etc.  Others are in charge of their body, feelings etc.

Then I allowed her to naturally set the boundaries and figure it out and correct dad.  (He never wanted to feel like a "bad guy" so would then let her have her way... .which in this instance, work toward her benefit)


Dad would get upset at me teaching her to set boundaries and would say "That is how we do things always, or how she needs.".  However, when I phrased it that I was teaching her these things to protect her from possible predators in school or from exW or exWBF, then he was open and allowed me to instill some boundary values with her. (Such as me knocking before entering her room and allowing her to express that she expects that from us)

At 5, kids are beginning to compare themselves to others in school. (And if everyone else wipes themself, so will S want to) They are beginning to be exposed to different persons. (And will need to learn a healthy assertion of their body belonging to them) Maybe if exW questioned you instilling a sense of boundaries in your S, instead of bringing up the infantilizing, you can mention it is a good time to teach him now because of his peers and new adult exposure at his age.

(Srry for the ramble... .just how it came out)