How deep is your HURT?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

There was the song lyric "how deep is your love?" Considering what all of us nonBPDs have endured with our BPDs, we found this website and one another. We found the lessons. We can go to see a T. We can be flexible, loving, understanding, caring, and anything else that will hopefully allow us to gain back ourselves with the chaos around us and hopefully to restore some sanity with our BPDs.

With all that being said, granted, we do love our BPDs. Otherwise, we would do our best to leave. After all, life is short enough as it is! Yet, how deep is your HURT? Again, we have this website and one another, the lessons, and maybe even seeing a T.

No matter what stage of your relationship with your BPD, you store memories. You store emotions. You can store love. You can store resentment. You can store so much pain, that you may even take out your hurt on yourself.

So, how deep is your HURT? How have you coped, or do you? What defenses or boundaries do you put up to protect yourself, or do you?

In my particular situation, I revealed to my BPDw several instances in which she admits she was verbally abusive, and that was extremely hard to do due to FOG. I even asked her, if she would want to be told the same toxic things, and she said a faint no. After that, she became somewhat more alert and said that she apologized for the hurt that she caused me. That admission and that apology were important, because she never admitted or apologized previously.

Now, she has continued to being neglectful by either working or studying or going to school. Granted, she has a right to pursue what she wants; however, like my T said after I explained all of this to her, "a marriage is when you make time for one another. Otherwise, it is not a marriage. What she said was unexcusable. Also, what my BPDw has been doing to me is exactly what her mother did." Those were powerful words and so very true.

In our living room, there is a sign that she found and put up on the wall, that family is extremely important. Ironic, right?

I have devoted a lot of time outside this place called a home in order to relate to normal people and to help them. That has helped me a lot too when I am with them. Yet, when the evening and the weekend arrive, it is rather lonely. I do make time with my friends and with my side of the family, even though they are far away. I do exercise. I do go to movies, but all alone.

So, again, how deep is your HURT?

[Samuel S.]

There was the song lyric "how deep is your love?" Considering what all of us nonBPDs have endured with our BPDs, we found this website and one another. We found the lessons. We can go to see a T. We can be flexible, loving, understanding, caring, and anything else that will hopefully allow us to gain back ourselves with the chaos around us and hopefully to restore some sanity with our BPDs.

With all that being said, granted, we do love our BPDs. Otherwise, we would do our best to leave. After all, life is short enough as it is! Yet, how deep is your HURT? Again, we have this website and one another, the lessons, and maybe even seeing a T.

No matter what stage of your relationship with your BPD, you store memories. You store emotions. You can store love. You can store resentment. You can store so much pain, that you may even take out your hurt on yourself.

So, how deep is your HURT? How have you coped, or do you? What defenses or boundaries do you put up to protect yourself, or do you?

In my particular situation, I revealed to my BPDw several instances in which she admits she was verbally abusive, and that was extremely hard to do due to FOG. I even asked her, if she would want to be told the same toxic things, and she said a faint no. After that, she became somewhat more alert and said that she apologized for the hurt that she caused me. That admission and that apology were important, because she never admitted or apologized previously.

Now, she has continued to being neglectful by either working or studying or going to school. Granted, she has a right to pursue what she wants; however, like my T said after I explained all of this to her, "a marriage is when you make time for one another. Otherwise, it is not a marriage. What she said was unexcusable. Also, what my BPDw has been doing to me is exactly what her mother did." Those were powerful words and so very true.

In our living room, there is a sign that she found and put up on the wall, that family is extremely important. Ironic, right?

I have devoted a lot of time outside this place called a home in order to relate to normal people and to help them. That has helped me a lot too when I am with them. Yet, when the evening and the weekend arrive, it is rather lonely. I do make time with my friends and with my side of the family, even though they are far away. I do exercise. I do go to movies, but all alone.

So, again, how deep is your HURT?

[Cruise2serv]

Samuel S, thank you for sharing.  I can identify with your experience. It is great that your BPDw acknowledged (even if for the first time) that she had hurt you. My experience with my BPDw is very similar in that she doesn't acknowledge her mistakes.  Her usual custom is to avoid the topic, change the subject or accuse me of doing something earlier in the relationship (which is usually untrue or exagerated) and then somehow blame me for what she has done.  It is very frustrating and we never seem to get to a simple "I'm sorry." 

As I watched the video on this website about getting out of the cycle of conflict one of the suggestions is to not accuse.  I am new to this site and trying to learn how to cope, so don't take my experience as any type of expert advise, however I am trying out the suggestion on this video to be as affirming and supportive of my wife to build up her self-esteem so that she may have enough will power to acknowledge her ways.  I'm trying to get out of the cycle of accusations because I know from past experience that when my BPBw feels attacked she will not apologize.  So whatever you did on that day (or whatever she was going through) worked so that she felt safe enough to apologize without losing face.   

[TheRealJongoBong]

Samuel S, that's nice that your wife actually apologized for her abusive behavior. That's something that I've yet to experience, not even in the vaguest sense. My uBPDw was verbally abusive for years until sometime this spring when I realized it was at least half my fault and just stopped listening to it. This abuse also included accusations of my infidelity which she told me just yesterday was a mistake. When I told her how hurtful it was she pretty much looked at me like I was some species of insect. I got the same reaction when I told her that her insults and criticism were very painful as well.

Needless to say my hurt still runs kind of deep. And being told again just last night that our relationship is all screwed up solely due to my faults and my childhood trauma, while completely discounting her recent acting out and paranoia that landed her in the psych ward, just hardens it up more.

She says she wants open communication and then leaves the house for hours at a time after saying at most she's going "out". She says I don't communicate enough, and then when I do she tells me that what I said is wrong and then tells me what I'm really thinking. How do you ever get out from under any of the hurt when this kind of stuff happens all of the time? I sure don't know.

[Samuel S.]

Cruise2serv, my BPDw's admission and apology seemed to be authentic, and I am glad that she did so. Nevertheless, this is the only time for that one mistake on her part. When I have brought up her other verbally abusive remarks always in a non-threatening way due to my FOG, she like so many other BPDs just discounts it or turns it around saying that it was my fault or someone else's fault, thus justifying her verbal abuse to me.

When I have brought up her toxic remarks, I never do it by accusing her. I talk with her with respect, validating her feelings and thus helping her self-esteem. In fact, even before her verbal abuse, I would be this way with her. Also, BTW, I believe and practice mutual respect not only personally, but also professionally.

All that being said, my BPDw has gone from feeling invalidated from her past to having a superiority complex, her holier than thou personality. Now, I am supposedly inferior with her feeling superior over me and everyone else, except for her "medium counselor".

TheRealJongoBong, your BPDw has really put you through a lot! As for how to get far from under any of the hurt, I am with you. I sure don't know, either. Yeah, you might not try to listen, and you know you're right that what they say is totally wrong with you being able to support it with specifics. Yet, when you, I, and the rest of nonBPDs are continuously bombarded with verbal abuse, it really does wear you down, wondering why the H*** you got involved with them in the first place.

BTW, prior to me marrying my now BPDw, I was totally enthusiastic and totally in love with her. I shared my feelings with my best friend who is like a sister to me. Later, my best friend talked with my now BPDw, saying that she thought for a long time that I would be making mistake by marrying her. Sure, that was a gutsy thing for her to say, and my now BPDw was livid. To this very day, she does not want anything to do with her. Indeed, my best friend had it right, and my BPDw became defensive, because my best friend saw right through her.

[Cruise2serv]

Samuel S,

Thank you for your response and your clarification.  It's amazing that your best friend saw right through her.  I wonder if the friends and family around us could really say what they believe if we would be the last ones in the room to recognize the BPD symptoms in our spouse?

[Samuel S.]

It took a lot of courage for my best friend-sister to say what she did to my now BPDw. My best friend-sister also tried to convince me to wait, but I was so totally overwhelmed by the love and by the affection, that I avoided the mature advice.

My BPDw has now gone a full 180 contradicting herself. Just one example. Oftentimes, she would manipulate me by saying that my first wife and my daughters from my first marriage didn't love me. First, she never met my first wife who passed away from cancer. Secondly, my daughters have their own busy lives being married, kids, and work, but all of us were in communication not frequently, but we made it a point to do so. She convinced me that she was the perfect wife, because she loved me, etc. Yeah, right! (Sarcasm abound!)

Now, I am like a discarded piece of S*** in terms of her showing love. She showed me way back when how much she loved me, and I did the same all authentically. Now, she uses this place called our home as a wayward station so that she can sleep, prepare some meals, study, and go off to her college classes for 3 days at a time. There is no quality time with one another, because she says she cannot be more than one person.

She also told me about 6 years ago that she has pretended her whole life, not doing what she wanted to do. While I admired her honesty, while I validated her feelings, I have always been authentic with her, and she knows that. Yet, I told her that she was being a fake. In her eyes, our courtship, our wedding, our quality time together, our going on trips have all been a fake then. She did not respond at all to my reaction, nor has she ever apologized.

Thus, for this reason and many more reasons, I am extremely hurt. I am authentic. I am the real deal. My family knows it. My friends know it. The people whom I serve and help know it.

[OnceConfused]

samuel:

A true apology consists of 3 parts:

1. Acknowledging the hurt we cause others

2. Asking for forgiveness, and

3. Promising not to do it again.

It seems to me that your wife's apologies to you consisted only on part (1). It means the apology is just a lip service and not a true desire to make it better. That is why the same act is committed over and over again and that is why you have felt a slow buildup of frustration inside, your wound, pain and hurt were never healed.

I am glad that you are knowing that you are authentic and real. Who you are really never change, despite the efforts of others trying to change to their liking. I have come to a conclusion, after many years of life and many life experiences (good and bad), that I just live fully with who I am, and I will try to be better on my own term. I try not to change others, and if their true existence is not in congruent with mine, I just ask them to depart or I will depart. Fighting to change others is a futile attempt. Just like we don't feel like to be told to change.

I believe that will lead to inner peace. I find my path, get on it, and stay on it and let no one pulls me off that path. I invite others to join me on my spiritual path, but if they don't then why trying to be evangelical. Move on.

My xBPDgf tried hard to say negative things about my children, about my old friend's wife (even only after meeting her for only .5 hr), about my clients. I believe these were all parts of her strategy to say :, heh, all these people are bad (implying that she is good or better) and you should not stay with them. This strategy is to ISOLATE me from my support so that she can exert the control over my life.

I think BPD's love to us is Not authentic (as you have described it, and as I saw in my r.s w xBPDgf) and unsustainable. Their love is like a simple burst of emotion with something new when they first met us (like a child who receives a toy, they play with it for a day or two and then they want a new toy, because the newest of the old toy has faded).

[Samuel S.]

OnceConfused, thank you so very much for your awesome reply from which all of us nonBPDs can learn.

You are so right on. I was her "toy" for many years and now replaced with other "toys" which will eventually be discarded just like I have been. She may even be having an affair or likings of someone else. I don't know, though. She makes attempts to appease me by preparing food for while she is gone getting her schooling done. BTW, she remarked just the other day that she is getting tired of it and wants to get on with her new career. Yet, I would never want to be her patient, because if she were in a bad mood, I don't want to be the recipient of her pins she would poke me with.

As for her less than authentic apology so that she wouldn't have to face the reality of her verbal abuse, she has not asked for forgiveness, and she has not promised to do it again. She is just playing her "happy game" with herself and not placing quality time into our relationship, our marriage. BTW, she made 2 interesting comments regarding this. Several years ago, when I gave her an anniversary card, it had the word "us" on it. She replied there is no us. Secondly, just last year on our anniversary, I suggested that we go out for dinner to celebrate. After saying no and then saying yes, she said she wanted "to get it out of the way" so that she could do her studies. So, we went out for dinner, but her toxic remark really left a bitter taste for me.

[Samuel S.]

Now, I am confused. I injured my right knee over a month ago from tripping and falling down. My BPDw asked and I agreed that she apply some pins on my right knee tonight. Also, for about 20 minutes, she had soft music on and put both her hands around my right knee. She was not verbally abusive and was very quiet. My right knee still hurts, but I was emotionally moved due to the fact this was the first time in years that she has actually been so caring. Of course, I know this can be a temporary change on her part, but I almost cried. Bottom line, though, my right knee still hurts. I do have an MRI coming up and a follow-up with my doctor. What do you folks think?

[Turkish]

I asked my Ex once what was gong through her head when she was dysregulating and mistreating others (me, her family, the kids), and she said, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain!"

She could see later how she hurt people, but in the moment, it was all about her; a deep pain which maybe we inadvertently triggered, but we didn't cause.

She used to talk about being tormented about not being able to control her emotions. Not being BPD, we maybe can't relate to that. I would take her caring and concern for you as real for now. Its confusing. 

[OnceConfused]

Samuel:

BPD is not totally bad 100% of the time, they do show some positive actions like what your wife did to your knee. We all have some bad and some good actions or traits in us. No one is perfect 100% of the time - me and you included.

In a normal case, hopefully our good actions will be more abundant then our bad actions. Then the overall result is that we can be tolerable and ok to live with. Unfortunately, in BPD case, their bad actions are overwhelmingly bad, making it impossible to live with BPD. Does that make sense?

[Samuel S.]

OnceConfused, I understand what you have stated and agree with you completely. We human beings have both good and bad. We are capable of making good decisions and capable of making bad ones. We as nonBPDs make more good ones, and we are more sensitive and compassionate of others, but we still make mistakes. A BPD also can make that same choice; however, he/she due to the past and current conditions will make more bad decisions, thus jeopardizing the people around them--namely and mostly, we as the nonBPDs. Also, the intensity of their bad decisions can be so very overwhelming like you say.

Bottom line, when we are all more sensitive and more compassionate of ourselves and others around us, we do not become each other's emotional battering ram.

[dacoming]

Samuel S, that's nice that your wife actually apologized for her abusive behavior. That's something that I've yet to experience, not even in the vaguest sense. My uBPDw was verbally abusive for years until sometime this spring when I realized it was at least half my fault and just stopped listening to it. This abuse also included accusations of my infidelity which she told me just yesterday was a mistake. When I told her how hurtful it was she pretty much looked at me like I was some species of insect. I got the same reaction when I told her that her insults and criticism were very painful as well.

Needless to say my hurt still runs kind of deep. And being told again just last night that our relationship is all screwed up solely due to my faults and my childhood trauma, while completely discounting her recent acting out and paranoia that landed her in the psych ward, just hardens it up more.

She says I don't communicate enough, and then when I do she tells me that what I said is wrong and then tells me what I'm really thinking. How do you ever get out from under any of the hurt when this kind of stuff happens all of the time? I sure don't know.

I can definitely identify as this happened to me last night as well... .also the night before.  It seems I am always apologizing whether I do anything or not.  We had been doing good or so I thought.  I came home from work, we hugged, things were smooth.  She was watching something on TV, she told me how she was feeling better today and so forth.  So I started to tell her about some information I researched for her pain.  Earlier in the day, she was having problems with finding a pain management doctor so while at work, I tried to look into alternative ways to deal with her pain.  She was zoned into the TV so I apologized and backed away.  She was mad the rest of the night because she says, I was being mean and disrespectful to her because I saw that she was watching TV.  She went on about how my ways are childish and behavior she wouldn't expect from a grown man, blah blah blah.  I told her I wasn't trying to upset her and apologized again.  Next day, things started out good and were good all day until shortly after I got home.  She wanted me to start the process to sell her car so we can but another.  I started almost right away.  My daughter had pictures of the car that she had sent me through facebook and I was only seeing one picture at first.  She showed me the other pics and I was cool.  My wife started lecturing me about how I need to make sure I post good pictures up because that's how you sell a car.  I told her I wasn't going to post any picture... .I know what to do.  She got mad and accused me of not knowing but refusing to be wrong and wanted me to admit my wrong.  She said the way I communicated the whole thing made it look like I was just going to post any 4 pictures.  Of course she had our daughter come in to validate that she felt the same way.  I apologized for my inability to communicate properly but she opined that I know how to communicate well because I have a government job and a couple degrees and so forth.  She feels I do this to her on purpose to annoy her and that I've been doing annoying things every day.  A couple nights before, she was telling me how I'm a great husband and she was blessed to have me and wanted to do everything to make me happy for standing by her doing her illness.  However now, she comments that I've not been there for her through anything and made her life hell during the whole period.  She said everything going wrong in our marriage is my fault because of who I am as a person and my emotionless ways.

She asks for my opinion and begs for communication but everything I say to her is wrong or I meant something else or I'm trying to be a Debbie downer.  She had brought up wanting to do a few things we can't afford but she gets mad when I tell her we can't afford it and accuses me of being controlling because I have a job and she doesn't.  I tell her all the time it's not like that and to check the bills and the account herself to see.  She never finds the time to do that though.  Today I called and told her how much money we had to play with until payday which isn't a lot and she still has to go grocery shopping.  She goes on about how she doesn't understand how our finances took a drastic turn when a few months ago, she was able to spend $1200 on decorations for the house and still made it.  I pointed out that was the reason why we are struggling now because we couldn't afford it.  She disagreed and then insinuated that I was trying to prove a point about the finances since we argued about us not getting a house that expensive.  I got agitated and told her to check the account herself because what am I doing to prove a point?  She got mad and changed around what she said or meant to say and accused me of not listening and always accusing her of saying something negative towards me when she is in my corner.  Keep in mind that in addition to a host of other putdowns and blame, last night she also said I had book sense but no common sense and have to hide behind my job and education because I bring nothing else to the table.  She accused my family of being the same way and told me that she had all of the important things that she's bringing to the table... .the only thing she doesn't have is a job.   She is always being insulting towards me and my family and accuses me of loving and caring for only my extended family but not the family in our household.

[no_ordinary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY1V0Y7hscw