Should I apologize?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

My former friend's birthday was on Friday.  I sent an early message to her, at a time when she's been consistently replying to me (she works at night and sleeps during the day).  Two hours later, I hadn't gotten a reply, so I said, "Ignore my message.  It's fine.  It would be nice to get a thank you at some point today." 

By that afternoon, I still hadn't gotten anything from her, so I became extremely frustrated and reacted in an unhealthy way, which I now recognize.  I sent her several texts over the next few hours, including one that said, "I could drop dead tomorrow, and you probably wouldn't care, would you?"  Again, I recognize that this was an unhealthy reaction. 

By midnight, I still hadn't gotten anything, so I texted her again, asking why I was getting the silent treatment and telling her I'm sure it was because she had found a place to live and no longer needed me around.  She replied, "Because I've been letting people read your texts all day, and they have unanimously decided that you are crazy."  We then went back and forth about who's actually the one with a diagnosis, she told me that the reason she didn't reply to my message was that she was sleeping all morning (still doesn't mean she had to continue ignoring me and then show people my texts, to prove a point), and then she stopped replying.  I sent a few more messages, mostly pointing out how difficult it is to communicate with her.

My question is, should I apologize for overreacting and not waiting longer for a reply?  The day before, she clearly waited to reply to me, probably to see how I would react.  I'm sure her birthday was the same thing.  I have stopped apologizing for things that aren't my fault, but I do take the blame for some of what transpired on Friday.

My goal is not to be her friend anymore, but to at least admit that I was in the wrong, in a constructive way, and possibly slow down or stop her smear campaign.  Earlier today, I was all for going NC again, but I would at least like to get to a point where I can text her once every few weeks or so and not worry about how she will react.     

[SummerStorm]

My former friend's birthday was on Friday.  I sent an early message to her, at a time when she's been consistently replying to me (she works at night and sleeps during the day).  Two hours later, I hadn't gotten a reply, so I said, "Ignore my message.  It's fine.  It would be nice to get a thank you at some point today." 

By that afternoon, I still hadn't gotten anything from her, so I became extremely frustrated and reacted in an unhealthy way, which I now recognize.  I sent her several texts over the next few hours, including one that said, "I could drop dead tomorrow, and you probably wouldn't care, would you?"  Again, I recognize that this was an unhealthy reaction. 

By midnight, I still hadn't gotten anything, so I texted her again, asking why I was getting the silent treatment and telling her I'm sure it was because she had found a place to live and no longer needed me around.  She replied, "Because I've been letting people read your texts all day, and they have unanimously decided that you are crazy."  We then went back and forth about who's actually the one with a diagnosis, she told me that the reason she didn't reply to my message was that she was sleeping all morning (still doesn't mean she had to continue ignoring me and then show people my texts, to prove a point), and then she stopped replying.  I sent a few more messages, mostly pointing out how difficult it is to communicate with her.

My question is, should I apologize for overreacting and not waiting longer for a reply?  The day before, she clearly waited to reply to me, probably to see how I would react.  I'm sure her birthday was the same thing.  I have stopped apologizing for things that aren't my fault, but I do take the blame for some of what transpired on Friday.

My goal is not to be her friend anymore, but to at least admit that I was in the wrong, in a constructive way, and possibly slow down or stop her smear campaign.  Earlier today, I was all for going NC again, but I would at least like to get to a point where I can text her once every few weeks or so and not worry about how she will react.     

[mrwigand]

Look, you admit you reacted in a way you weren't proud of, but that's okay. We all do that! She may very well have been giving you the silent treatment, but it's probably still fair to apologize and end communication on a civil note.

And I mean end communication because I can't see how checking in with her every few weeks would be positive for you. If I were you, I would apologize and move on. That's all anyone can ask of you.

[SummerStorm]

So, I have an update.  While she was "busy" and supposedly showing everyone my texts, she was at her ex-boyfriend's house, stealing money from him and taking his new debit card. He filed a police report. 

At this point, I have no intention of apologizing.  Yes, I was in the wrong, but apologizing will accomplish nothing.

[mrwigand]

I can understand where you're coming from. And if you don't intend to communicate further, it's probably best to simply leave it alone.

[Invictus01]

I'd just stop all communication and be done with it.

[Mutt]

Hi SummerStorm,

I'm sorry to hear that. I can see how frustrating that is when we care about someone and they ignore us. I would be hurt if someone I cared about said that all of their friends unanimously said that you were crazy. It sounds like she's projecting.

possibly slow down or stop her smear campaign.  

I'd just stop all communication and be done with it.

The way to slow down or stop the smear campaign is complete radio silence SummerStorm and things will eventually cool off.

I can relate with how emotionally distressing smear campaigns are. I recall what my P said when I told her about what my wife was telling friends and family that I was abusive. She said to not worry about what my ex wife says because that's on her. My P was right.

Family and friends can be confused when a pwBPD will have smear campaigns and the same person is split white later and the pwBPD will have forgotten the bad things that they had said about the same person.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey SummerStorm, Agree w/those above.  Why bother?  Engaging with a pwBPD in this fashion is usually unproductive and leads to prolonging the pain.  LJ

[Pretty Woman]

I agree. You made a mistake. Hon, it pales in comparison to what she's done to you. Let it be. Any engaging will make it worse. Sometimes silence really is golden




PS. Rude of her not to reply BPD or not. You are validated in being upset. See, it's all about them.

[balletomane]

I behaved in a similar way with my ex - I sent lots of messages begging and pleading for him to talk to me that made me come across as completely unstable and that I really wish I hadn't sent. So I do understand, and when you were caught up in that hurt moment it would have been very difficult for you to act any differently - I remember messaging my ex for the tenth time in the full knowledge that this was not a good thing to do. But while I can sympathise, I will be honest here. If someone sent me a passive-aggressive text (":)on't bother replying" because they didn't get an answer from me in two hours, I'd be annoyed, especially if they then followed it up with a barrage of other texts that suggested they did want a reply. Just because someone is normally available at that time of day doesn't mean they're always going to be, and two hours is not a long time to wait.

You recognise that this behaviour was unhealthy. Now think about how you would feel if your former friend with BPD behaved that way to you - would your first impulse be to respond immediately, or would you perhaps feel overwhelmed and feel within your rights to back off until the message sender had calmed down? Would you think it was reasonable if a poster on this forum decided to take that action after they received a passive-aggressive text? I don't think it's fair to apply one standard to ourselves and another standard to people who have BPD. I know every one of us here has been very badly hurt or even abused by someone with BPD, and I am not trivialising the extent of that pain, but I think it's important to be consistent and fair for everyone's sake.

At this point, I have no intention of apologizing.  Yes, I was in the wrong, but apologizing will accomplish nothing.

I'm not sure this is true. What do you mean by "it would accomplish nothing?" The main purpose an apology is to acknowledge that you did something wrong, and once you've said sorry, you've fulfilled that purpose. You don't have to make a big deal of it, just say, "Sorry I overreacted the other day" or something simple like that. People with BPD are forever seeing reasons why they shouldn't apologise and when a person without the diagnosis behaves in the same way as they do, it must get confusing for them - how come it's taken as a sign of disorder when they act this way, but not when someone else does? Judging by the content of your post, your friend was sensitive to that inconsistency. Apologies are about behaviour, not about who has what label, and the simplest thing to do is just to say sorry when you need to if you have that capability. This is the kindest way to move on that I can see, for both of you.

[SummerStorm]

I behaved in a similar way with my ex - I sent lots of messages begging and pleading for him to talk to me that made me come across as completely unstable and that I really wish I hadn't sent. So I do understand, and when you were caught up in that hurt moment it would have been very difficult for you to act any differently - I remember messaging my ex for the tenth time in the full knowledge that this was not a good thing to do. But while I can sympathise, I will be honest here. If someone sent me a passive-aggressive text (":)on't bother replying" because they didn't get an answer from me in two hours, I'd be annoyed, especially if they then followed it up with a barrage of other texts that suggested they did want a reply. Just because someone is normally available at that time of day doesn't mean they're always going to be, and two hours is not a long time to wait.

You recognise that this behaviour was unhealthy. Now think about how you would feel if your former friend with BPD behaved that way to you - would your first impulse be to respond immediately, or would you perhaps feel overwhelmed and feel within your rights to back off until the message sender had calmed down? Would you think it was reasonable if a poster on this forum decided to take that action after they received a passive-aggressive text? I don't think it's fair to apply one standard to ourselves and another standard to people who have BPD. I know every one of us here has been very badly hurt or even abused by someone with BPD, and I am not trivialising the extent of that pain, but I think it's important to be consistent and fair for everyone's sake.

At this point, I have no intention of apologizing.  Yes, I was in the wrong, but apologizing will accomplish nothing.

I'm not sure this is true. What do you mean by "it would accomplish nothing?" The main purpose an apology is to acknowledge that you did something wrong, and once you've said sorry, you've fulfilled that purpose. You don't have to make a big deal of it, just say, "Sorry I overreacted the other day" or something simple like that. People with BPD are forever seeing reasons why they shouldn't apologise and when a person without the diagnosis behaves in the same way as they do, it must get confusing for them - how come it's taken as a sign of disorder when they act this way, but not when someone else does? Judging by the content of your post, your friend was sensitive to that inconsistency. Apologies are about behaviour, not about who has what label, and the simplest thing to do is just to say sorry when you need to if you have that capability. This is the kindest way to move on that I can see, for both of you.

I think the biggest thing is that she never thanked me for anything when we were friends, and so not getting a reply about her birthday really sent me over the edge.  She never acknowledged my birthday, which was in August.

Also, she has a pattern of just abandoning conversations and of reading texts but not replying.  She admitted this to me one time.  I sent her a nice message the night before, about a former co-worker, and she never replied.  I know she was on her phone in the hours after I sent that because she was posting things on Facebook.

And again, what really bothers me is that she was stealing from her ex at the same time I was texting her. 

I admit that I was in the wrong, but she is always so vague about everything, so it's hard to know what her schedule even is.

When we were friends, she would text me all the time, including at work.  She also once called my classroom 4 times in about a 10 minute period and then texted me when I didn't answer.  She is one her phone constantly.  When we would go out to dinner, she would sit there and check Facebook and text. So, not getting a reply from her is incredibly frustrating.

Also, in the past, most of the time when she said she was busy, she was smoking pot or playing video games.

She is the only person in my life who triggers these emotions.  I have one co-worker who sometimes replies to my texts weeks after I send them, and it doesn't bother me. 

[Invictus01]

I think the biggest thing is that she never thanked me for anything when we were friends, and so not getting a reply about her birthday really sent me over the edge.  She never acknowledged my birthday, which was in August.

Also, she has a pattern of just abandoning conversations and of reading texts but not replying.  She admitted this to me one time.  I sent her a nice message the night before, about a former co-worker, and she never replied.  I know she was on her phone in the hours after I sent that because she was posting things on Facebook.

And again, what really bothers me is that she was stealing from her ex at the same time I was texting her. 

I admit that I was in the wrong, but she is always so vague about everything, so it's hard to know what her schedule even is.

When we were friends, she would text me all the time, including at work.  She also once called my classroom 4 times in about a 10 minute period and then texted me when I didn't answer.  She is one her phone constantly.  When we would go out to dinner, she would sit there and check Facebook and text. So, not getting a reply from her is incredibly frustrating.

Also, in the past, most of the time when she said she was busy, she was smoking pot or playing video games.

She is the only person in my life who triggers these emotions.  I have one co-worker who sometimes replies to my texts weeks after I send them, and it doesn't bother me. 

The thing is that you can't be friends... .or friendly... .or light contact... .or whatever it might be... .until she is no different than that co-worker of yours who replies to your texts weeks later and it doesn't bother you. As long as it does bother you to this degree, you are better off staying away because she knows how to push your buttons too well.

[Mutt]

Hi SummerStorm,

I understand how frustrating BPD can be with how things are all or nothing with no in-between. A pwBPD see people as either "all good" or "all bad" and don't see the grey area or a person as an integrated whole with both "good" and "bad"

When we were friends, she would text me all the time, including at work.  She also once called my classroom 4 times in about a 10 minute period and then texted me when I didn't answer.  

Do you think that you were split white when you were friends and she was constantly texting and calling?

[SummerStorm]

Hi SummerStorm,

I understand how frustrating BPD can be with how things are all or nothing with no in-between. A pwBPD see people as either "all good" or "all bad" and don't see the grey area or a person as an integrated whole with both "good" and "bad"

When we were friends, she would text me all the time, including at work.  She also once called my classroom 4 times in about a 10 minute period and then texted me when I didn't answer.  

Do you think that you were split white when you were friends and she was constantly texting and calling?

I was split even more white than her now ex-boyfriend.  His work schedule meant that he rarely saw her.  She and I had the same schedule, so ahe could contact me whenever.

[Mutt]

Hi SummerStorm,

I think that's sensible that it's easier to contact you because you have similar schedules.

Let's take a look at this from the perspective of BPD?

He rarely sees her and he also lacks boundaries and you were planning to get a house together, you're career driven and have goals. Your ex lacks a sense of self and has feelings of emptiness and doesn't know who she is; a pwBPD can be chameleon like and change identities depending on who they are with. The person may change friends, careers, and long term goals often.

Perhaps she felt engulfed or she felt like you were going to abandon her ( perceived or real ) and she split you because she wasn't having her emotional needs met? A pwBPD will split depending if a person is meeting their emotional needs or not.

Have you accepted that she suffers from a personality disorder and serious mental illness?

[SummerStorm]

Hi SummerStorm,

I think that's sensible that it's easier to contact you because you have similar schedules.

Let's take a look at this from the perspective of BPD?

He rarely sees her and he also lacks boundaries and you were planning to get a house together, you're career driven and have goals. Your ex lacks a sense of self and has feelings of emptiness and doesn't know who she is; a pwBPD can be chameleon like and change identities depending on who they are with. The person may change friends, careers, and long term goals often.

Perhaps she felt engulfed or she felt like you were going to abandon her ( perceived or real ) and she split you because she wasn't having her emotional needs met? A pwBPD will split if a person depending on if a person is meeting their emotional needs or not.

Have you accepted that she suffers from a personality disorder and serious mental illness?

Yes, I've accepted it.   My grandmother had mild schizophrenia, my aunt is an undiagnosed PD, and a former student of mine is BPD and has started idealizing me, so I now have to work on fixing that situation, as she still attends the school.  Add to that the fact that I just started a grad class and am getting ready to move, and I suppose you could say that my recent actions have been very driven by stress.  I was handling her very well for about a month. 

[Mutt]

Hi SummerStorm,

Yes, I've accepted it.   My grandmother had mild schizophrenia, my aunt is an undiagnosed PD, and a former student of mine is BPD and has started idealizing me, so I now have to work on fixing that situation, as she still attends the school.

Why do you have to fix and rescue your ex friend?

She is an adult capable of making her choices and live her life?

My ex always validated me with how I was a good provider, husband and father and impulsively left for a man that didn't understand how much work it is to raise a family and got involved with someone that is undiagnosed and display traits of the borderline personality type.

She made her choice, she has the right to choose who she wants to be with, regardless of what I think of with her poor life choices or that she's not looking at the bigger picture. I was also her savior, fixer and helper and I choose to not rescue her. She made her bed, she can lay in it.

My ex is also enmeshed with her family and they enable her dysfunctional behaviors. I don't want to be an enabler, I would like for her to get help someday and if she continues to be enabled, it's less likely going to be that she is going to get help?

I choose to not rescue, not enable her so that I'm not a part of the problem but a part of a solution so that she may choose to get treatment for BPD someday.

[SummerStorm]

Hi SummerStorm,

Yes, I've accepted it.   My grandmother had mild schizophrenia, my aunt is an undiagnosed PD, and a former student of mine is BPD and has started idealizing me, so I now have to work on fixing that situation, as she still attends the school.

Why do you have to fix and rescue your ex friend?

She is an adult capable of making her choices and live her life?

My ex always validated me with how I was a good provider, husband and father and impulsively left for a man that didn't understand how much work it is to raise a family and got involved with someone that is undiagnosed and display traits of the borderline personality type.

She made her choice, she has the right to choose who she wants to be with, regardless of what I think of with her poor life choices or that she's not looking at the bigger picture. I was also her savior, fixer and helper and I choose to not rescue her. She made her bed, she can lay in it.

My ex is also enmeshed with her family and they enable her dysfunctional behaviors. I don't want to be an enabler, I would like for her to get help someday and if she continues to be enabled, it's less likely going to be that she is going to get help?

I choose to not rescue, not enable her so that I'm not a part of the problem but a part of a solution so that she may choose to get treatment for BPD someday.

The situation I have to fix is with the student.  I'm sorry if that was unclear.  I can't have students e-mailing me, following me on social media, etc. 

[Mutt]

I understood. You weren't unclear.

I triggered engulfment fears because I wrote long, romantic e-mails, took her to look at a house with me, and sent her a list of job openings.  This went against her "I refuse to adult" attitude.

I understand having boundaries and that you didn't want her to stay with you. Were you worried about jobs and that she needed a place to live?

If she has an attitude that she refuses to be an adult, BPD is emotional arrested development of around the age of 2 or 3 and the person looks for an emotional caretaker and someone to take care of them and are dependent. BPD behaviors aren't personal, let things be?

[Lucky Jim]

f she has an attitude that she refuses to be an adult, BPD is emotional arrested development of around the age of 2 or 3 and the person looks for an emotional caretaker and someone to take care of them and are dependent.

Hey Mutt, This is a succinct description of my BPDxW.  Thanks, LJ

[Beach_Babe]

Well duh, she was too busy STEALING to respond to you. Lol. That there should tell ya everything you need to know. Say it with me kids, "loser".  SS, you are an educated and accomplished woman, screw this.

[BorisAcusio]

Any engaging will make it worse. Sometimes silence really is golden

I agree. In our interaction, apologies only made things worse. It validated her mental image of me as a persecuter, and met with a barrage of attacks a hostility, with the aim of destroying the potentially harmful object.

[Beach_Babe]

That's really interesting, Boris. I never thought of an apology being interpreted that way.  Just goes to show you how crazy they are. Sorry you had that experience.