Trauma resurfacing PTSD

[Sunfl0wer]

I am a bit shook up.  Something occurred that was traumatic to me today.  I don't know who to talk to about it and I need help processing it.  (By the way... .i am safe... .just was in a unexpected compromising situation that triggered me). I did contact my therapist to explain via txt.  He has not responded.  He has previously told me that trauma therapy is not his thing, so I did ask if he knew someone for EMDR.  I am not sure how to talk about this even here. 

Maybe someone will post and there will be someone to PM?  Maybe I can discuss aspect without details?

So what is bothering me atm is my lack of response to the situation.  I actually dissociated and neglected to experience feelings of fear or anxiety when it really would be helpful.  When "anyone" else typically would have been anxious.

I am used to working on calming my hypersensitivities, hypervigilance due to PTSD anxieties.  I am very rational and insightful, despite my hypervigilance.  I can easily see myself from different perspectives, and separate which is "typical" response vs PTSD shaded response.   I typically do not present as PTSD as I keep it to myself for the most part... .as I see is appropriate.

Today this situation caught me off guard because instead of being "over aware" to danger... .I actually could not process what was so evident.  I cannot recall having such an intense lack of ability to see danger.  The intervening police were even clearly not comfortable... .but me, I had no physiological response to speak of... .and carried on almost like Mr. Magoo!  My mind went into tunnel vision.  I still am unable to feel fear associated with it.  I feel like my fight/flight/freeze... .and autonomic nervous system is broken and needs repairs.

I intellectually know not to blame myself, however, I feel so odd to not have felt fear at all, I feel sad for myself, overwhlemed, confused as I am struggling to understand what I was unable to access.

Like I said... .  This is a new PTSD experience that I have no recollection of encountering so I feel out of sorts.

Can anyone relate?

Or help me sort out a bit?

I'm also interested in doing something to reprogram my nervous system to more accurately respond to danger when appropriate.  (Vs just teaching myself intellectually)

TIA!

(Please respond gently... .I'm still feeling quite sensitive emotionally... .and not pleased at myself... .as I felt I should have been more protective of my younger friend)

[enlighten me]

Hi Sunflower

Im sorry that you have had to deal with this. I can see how terrifying it would be. To ignore danger is like this isn't right like you say. I personally wouldn't know what to do if it happened to me.

I have never heard of anything like this but I hope one of the team may be able to offer some insight.

EM

[livednlearned]

I'm so sorry you experienced this, Sunflower   

Do you think it's possible you were disassociating? There seems to be a dissociative subtype of PTSD, although a counselor would be able to help determine if your experience is similar.

This is from www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/Dissociative_Subtype_of_PTSD.asp

The recognition of a dissociative subtype of PTSD as part of the DSM-5 PTSD diagnosis was based on three converging lines of research: (1) symptom assessments, (2) treatment outcomes, and (3) psychobiological studies.  Even though dissociative symptoms such as flashbacks and psychogenic amnesia are included as part of the core PTSD symptoms, evidence suggests that a subgroup of PTSD patients exhibits additional symptoms of dissociation, including depersonalization and derealization, thus warranting a subtype of PTSD specifically focusing on these two symptoms. Recognizing a dissociative subtype of PTSD has the potential to improve the assessment and treatment outcome of PTSD.

Are you doing ok right now? It sounds like the experience shook you up. Do you have someone you can talk to?

[Kwamina]

Hi Sunfl0wer

I am very sorry you've had such an unsettling experience. I am glad you are safe now yet it's clear that this whole episode has affected you.

It is good that you are seeking out help and have contacted your therapist, I hope he will respond soon. I'm also very glad that you reached out here for support and advice.

PTSD can manifest itself in various ways. Instead of being hypersensitive and aware to danger, you now seem to have had the opposite reaction to a trigger. Pete Walker who has written extensively about emotional flashbacks and cPTSD has said that sometimes Fear launches us into 'heady' worrying, or numbing and spacing out. In this situation you did not consciously experience any fear, but perhaps went straight ahead into a numbing and spacing out stage, indeed a seemingly dissociative stage. I know this is hard, but looking back at your experience, do you perhaps feel this might be what is going on here?

As you deal with this I encourage you to be gentle for yourself and take it easy. Experiences like this can be quite overwhelming and unsettling and at times like this we need to be more mindful than ever of what's going on with us. I again quote some words by Pete Walker that I think can be helpful for you:

"Ease back into your body.

a. Gently ask your body to Relax: feel each of your major muscle groups and softly encourage them to relax.

b. Breathe deeply and slowly.

c. Slow down: rushing presses the psyche's panic button.

d. Find a safe place to unwind and soothe yourself: wrap yourself in a blanket, hold a stuffed animal, lie down in a closet or a bath, take a nap."

This in time might also help you get to the point where you can access what you weren't able to access today:

"e. Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it."

Take care and I encourage you to keep posting

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you guys so much!  I feel as though I am not alone right now.  I am so so so grateful... .to know others care enough to read and thoughtfully respond... .I cannot fully express my gratitude right now. I am in tears for support from people who have not met me.

This is not something I can talk to anyone about... .as many of the people in my life would be uncomfortable to hear about the depths of PTSD.

In order to respond, however, it is a bit triggering.  I will set aside time later when I am able to manage space to respond and work on this.  Balancing dissociation, and being present... .is confusing me.

Thank you... .I read all loving replies, and I am being gentle and patient with myself as I realize I am overwhelmed, and need to care and nurture myself right now.  Thank you emensely.  

[Harri]

Hi Sunflower.  How are you doing now?  

I don't have specific advice, tho I think you have received some great feedback.  I just wanted you to know I am concerned.  If you want someone to listen to you I am here.  I will warn you tho that I am on a tablet and am very slow typing on it.

Just thought of something that may give a more positive view on this.  Look at it as an opportunity to work on and heal at a deeper level than before.  I generally see my own PTSD episodes as a positive opportunity to work on things.  The fact that today involved a new respose sort of goes along with that.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you Harri,

While I have not replied much, as I am still reading, and appreciating all thoughts.

I agree.  There is a part of me grateful to have uncovered past trauma.  I have on several occasions wanted to speak to the current T thinking some issues were unresolved.  However, while trauma is not currently happening, I have trouble articulating and remembering the issues that are unresolved.  I hope this is a way... .an entrance of sorts... .for necessary healing.

Thank you again all... .  I still have trouble processing the generosity of all here.  This alone... .must be an additional aspect of necessary healing.

[Kwamina]

Hi again Sunfl0wer

PTSD isn't an easy thing to deal with. Just take your time and respond in more detail when you feel up to it, we will be here for you

Harri's advice is very wise. Pete Walker has said similar things:

"Figure out what you are flashing back to. Flashbacks are opportunities to discover, validate and heal our wounds from past abuse and abandonment. They also point to our still unmet developmental needs and can provide motivation to get them met."

"Allow yourself to grieve. Flashbacks are opportunities to release old, unexpressed feelings of fear, hurt, and abandonment, and to validate - and then soothe - the child's past experience of helplessness and hopelessness. Healthy grieving can turn our tears into self-compassion and our anger into self-protection."

An important aspect of managing (c)PTSD is learning to identify your triggers: "Avoid unsafe people, places, activities and triggering mental processes. Practice preventive maintenance with these steps when triggering situations are unavoidable."

You now seem to have experienced a new type of trigger that led to a reaction that you haven't had before. When you have been able to calm down and relax, then might be the time to ask yourself some questions to help you further examine what happened:

- What was it exactly about what happened that triggered you so?

- What events in your past might be related to this current event? What feeling and thoughts from your past could have gotten triggered by this current event?

- When you experienced those events in the past, how did you react to them then? Were there times in your past, long before you had gotten the PTSD diagnosis in which you might have tried to numb your feelings or dissociate? Could this current event perhaps have reactivated an old coping mechanism of yours?

Take care and I hope you are feeling better today

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi Sunflower

Im sorry that you have had to deal with this. I can see how terrifying it would be. To ignore danger is like this isn't right like you say. I personally wouldn't know what to do if it happened to me.

I have never heard of anything like this but I hope one of the team may be able to offer some insight.

EM

Thank you greatly!  . I am touched by the compassion here, thank you!

[enlighten me]

Your welcome sunflower

That why were here.

I hope your feeling better today and not so overwhelmed.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm so sorry you experienced this, Sunflower   

Do you think it's possible you were disassociating? There seems to be a dissociative subtype of PTSD, although a counselor would be able to help determine if your experience is similar.

This is from www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/Dissociative_Subtype_of_PTSD.asp

The recognition of a dissociative subtype of PTSD as part of the DSM-5 PTSD diagnosis was based on three converging lines of research: (1) symptom assessments, (2) treatment outcomes, and (3) psychobiological studies.  Even though dissociative symptoms such as flashbacks and psychogenic amnesia are included as part of the core PTSD symptoms, evidence suggests that a subgroup of PTSD patients exhibits additional symptoms of dissociation, including depersonalization and derealization, thus warranting a subtype of PTSD specifically focusing on these two symptoms. Recognizing a dissociative subtype of PTSD has the potential to improve the assessment and treatment outcome of PTSD.

Are you doing ok right now? It sounds like the experience shook you up. Do you have someone you can talk to?

Interesting.  This was added to the most current DSM?

Derealization has always been a strong component of my (c -)PTSD. (The depersonalization... .less so... only during active trauma inducing incidents). I thought the majority of persons with c-PTSD also experienced these features.

According to this article tho it is 15-20% of PTSD have the subtype symptoms of dissociation via depersonalization and derealization?

The addition of a dissociative subtype of PTSD in the upcoming DSM-5 was based on three lines of evidence:

1. Several studies using latent class, taxometric, epidemiological, and confirmatory factor analyses conducted on PTSD symptom endorsements collected from Veteran and civilian PTSD samples indicated that a subgroup of individuals (roughly 15 - 30%) suffering from PTSD reported symptoms of depersonalization and derealization (1-3). Individuals with the dissociative subtype were more likely: to be male, have experienced repeated traumatization and early adverse experiences, have comorbid psychiatric disorders, and evidenced greater suicidality and functional impairment (4). The subtype also replicated cross-culturally.

2.  Neurobiological evidence suggests depersonalization and derealization responses in PTSD are distinct from re-experiencing/hyperarousal reactivity.  Individuals who re-experienced their traumatic memory and showed concomitant psychophysiological hyperarousal exhibited reduced activation in the medial prefrontal- and the rostral anterior cingulate cortex and increased amygdala reactivity. Reliving responses are, therefore, thought to be mediated by failure of prefrontal inhibition or top-down control of limbic regions.  In contrast, the group who exhibited symptoms of depersonalization and derealization showed increased activation in the rostral anterior cingulate cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex. Depersonalization/derealization responses are suggested to be mediated by midline prefrontal inhibition of the limbic regions (5,6).

3.  Early evidence suggests that symptoms of depersonalization and derealization in PTSD are relevant to treatment decisions in PTSD (reviewed in Lanius et al., 2012;5). Individuals with PTSD who exhibited symptoms of depersonalization and derealization tended to respond better to treatments that included cognitive restructuring and skills training in affective and interpersonal regulation in addition to exposure-based therapies (7,8). Additional research is needed to more fully evaluate the effects of depersonalization and derealization on treatment response.

I'd like to look this up further to understand the part I bolded "rostral anterior cingulate cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex."

I do feel I need a rewiring, and am hearing that EMDR does a rewiring of sorts?  However... .I don't think I triggered a specific trauma... .but just talked my way out of feeling anxious.

[Sunfl0wer]

Your welcome sunflower

That why were here.

I hope your feeling better today and not so overwhelmed.

My mind is still feeling out of sorts and not trusting myself.  I feel disconnected and unsure of things.  Kind of in a derealization foggy feeling still.  I am trying to think of how to process this and therefore am trying to just go with linear... .and reply to posts... .hoping It helps me process as I am able.

I may just need to halt processing at some point and just skip to mindfulness and grounding focus so tomorrow I can function properly.

Thank you!

[Turkish]

If you talked your way out of feeling anxious, then that's a win. I used to have something akin to social anxiety, and while it wasn't necessarily debilitating, it affected my life. So I can relate to the BPD hermits a bit... .it was years of me pushing myself outside of my comfort zone to mostly overcome it.

How are you doing now?

[Sunfl0wer]

If you talked your way out of feeling anxious, then that's a win. I used to have something akin to social anxiety, and while it wasn't necessarily debilitating, it affected my life. So I can relate to the BPD hermits a bit... .it was years of me pushing myself outside of my comfort zone to mostly overcome it.

How are you doing now?

I am honestly a bit confused.  I don't know what sense to make of it... .so just no thinking of it... .maybe I'll revisit later.  Maybe it was ok?  I was over reacting?  Or not?  Idk.

I guess now my issue is coming out of derealization.  I guess I can get deep into that vs lightly into it in different levels.

I felt exhausted yesterday... .so just gave myself the day off from any expectations, however, I need to get back to "reality" today.

I kinda wish I went for a walk, bike, or some exercise yesterday just to do something proactive towards derealization issue.

[Charlie3236]

I have absolutely experienced this same thing! I tend toward the more dissociative side of ptsd too. It's actually kind of a (weird) blessing if you choose to see it that way. Your brain came up with a genius way of protecting you! But you're right to seek therapy for this, and I feel emdr helped me immensely in working through trauma. It's fast and furious, but at least you don't stay stuck in your darkness too long.

Good luck & God bless! ❤️

[HappyChappy]

I am a bit shook up.  Something occurred that was traumatic to me today.

Can anyone relate?

Or help me sort out a bit?

I'm also interested in doing something to reprogram my nervous system to more accurately respond to danger when appropriate.  (Vs just teaching myself intellectually)

TIA!

Hi Sunflow,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. If you’re running off auto pilot then you did the right thing, because you did the only thing you could do.

I have had similar experiences and I also have PTSD and dissociation. But part of my PTSD relates to a time I was being tormented by my older NPD bro and I actually thought I would lose my life a couple of times. I didn’t realise back then that my bro had no empathy and hence no idea/concern about the damage he did to me. But losing the fear enabled me to more effectively combat his violence. Trouble is in my safe European home, that’s same approach can be dangerous. I once was mugged at knife point by two people and kicked up such a fuss, they gave me back my $20 ! So re-programming might be an idea. I hear tapping or CBT can help. I just had kids and became sensible, but CBT is probably cheaper.

[Sunfl0wer]

I am a bit shook up.  Something occurred that was traumatic to me today.

Can anyone relate?

Or help me sort out a bit?

I'm also interested in doing something to reprogram my nervous system to more accurately respond to danger when appropriate.  (Vs just teaching myself intellectually)

TIA!

Hi Sunflow,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. If you’re running off auto pilot then you did the right thing, because you did the only thing you could do.

I have had similar experiences and I also have PTSD and dissociation. But part of my PTSD relates to a time I was being tormented by my older NPD bro and I actually thought I would lose my life a couple of times. I didn’t realise back then that my bro had no empathy and hence no idea/concern about the damage he did to me. But losing the fear enabled me to more effectively combat his violence. Trouble is in my safe European home, that’s same approach can be dangerous. I once was mugged at knife point by two people and kicked up such a fuss, they gave me back my $20 ! So re-programming might be an idea. I hear tapping or CBT can help. I just had kids and became sensible, but CBT is probably cheaper.

I am seriously having trouble processing and also functioning.

I have replied to this twice.  And my reply is not visible.  I am clearly not operating properly and my reply is messing up.

UGH! IDK!  I don't even know what to say!

Thank yoy for your patience with me!