The "good" times

[james_s]

Hi guys,

Thanks for keeping these boards so educational and supportive. It is so interesting and yet so sad to see so many people going through such similar devastating experiences.

I have a question regarding your experiences. My relationship followed the classic BPD pattern. Amazing beginning that gradually turned into occasional hate and rage episodes that at times got physical and dangerous despite me offering love, care, support and trying to organise regular counselling. I left with the complicating factor of me leaving meant she had to go back home (to another country as the visa was linked to our relationship). At the end, threats of self and non self harm came as for many of you.

Even at the end of the 2 year relationship, our life was idyllic/perfect for maybe 80-90% of the time, between serious rage episodes that used to occur every couple of weeks or once a month.

I think the predominance of amazing/"good" memories that my mind can now analyse day by day (6 months out) makes me feel very guilty at times and makes it more difficult to let go.

What proportion of "good" did your relationship have at the end? Has it affected your recovery?

[elessar]

If I have to guess, I would say that a lot of us stay because when our significant others are good, they are very good. Mine is charming, intelligent, beautiful, full of life and intense etc. But on the other hand, maybe the good is too good to be true? I have gone out with regular girls, I hang out with my friends, and they aren't so intense. For long term relationship, maybe having our ex so intense isn't good. Because when that intensity turns from good to bad, those raging episodes are too much to handle. Mine wouldn't rage every day. Maybe couple of times a month or less. But those raging episodes and anger would last a week. Sometimes many weeks to a few months.

I was talking to my mom about it last month. She said there is a fine line where all the good cannot overcome some really terrible bad. I still get pulled to my ex because she is magnetic. Everyone loves her. She is the center of attention. But when I am alone with her she is empty. She has nothing to talk about. She is obsessed with her's and others' looks. The sex, charm, and seduction and idealization feels great, but how can one build life with just that? When she talks, it sounds very good - about family, kids, career etc. But when I see her actions, I see a child who deep down is scared of the world and strangers.

[gameover]

Mine was probably good to great about 95% percent of the time over the two years we were together.  Makes it very very tough--but I do know that my ex was internally miserable more often than she let on.  There was always the constant thought in her mind that she wasn't good enough for me, that I'd leave her, etc.  That's no way to live.  Thinking of that makes things easier.

I didn't leave voluntarily--well I kind of did, but she hit a deal breaker for me.  I told her up front that if she ever made it come down to being with her versus my self-respect, I'd have to choose my self-respect.  But God, it was hard--and still is three months later.  She's with my replacement 3,000 miles away; and I know I could never take her back in this lifetime, but sometimes I wish I could.

Another thing I've noticed though, is that for as great as the relationship felt at the time it was causing me a lot of stress a subconscious level.  When it was over, along with sadness, regret, pain, loneliness, etc., I also felt a great deal of relief.  It was physical and almost immediate.

[Herodias]

Hard to say... .mine was over 8 years, 7 of them married. Started great (Love bombing)... .then got strange. He started sexting with and having oral sex with a couple of women at work. That's when he acted out. Maybe guilt... .started being mean a bit and pulling me into tight holds in the bed or in the closet. Not allowing me to move. Very strange behavior. Then at Xmas he started the cutting. Ended up in the hospital. That was the second year. When I found out about the women, I moved in with my Mom. I just wanted a break to think, but he quickly divided everything up- I had to sell a car and everything! Then we got back together after about a month. Then things were ok, for awhile. He had his hobbies to keep him busy. He still acted strange at times, but lots of love and cuddling. Then we bought a house. Thats when it all went to hell. LOTS of acting out, drunkenness, cutting himself, violence, taking off in the middle of the night and not telling me where he was, buying everything he could - for the house had to be the best of the best, starting expensive hobbies and having to have the best they made, getting into porn-even partial dolls for night time masterbation when he got home from work, inviting odd "friends" over in the middle of the night (one was from the mental institution), ending up in rehab and the mental wards on different occasions, swimming on the pond at 2 am drunk with the alligator, very dangerous acts! Taking all kinds of medications and going into work, telling work horrific lies about my having breast cancer or my father dying to get out of work a few days... .LOTS of lies to me, lots! Projection, raging, mirroring, tantrums, gas-lighting, you name it- I went through it! Threatening me with a gun, holding me on the floor with his hand over my mouth, holding a pillow over my face!  The good times were far and few between at that point. So many horrific stories,so may lies, so many women, this is only the beginning. I was told I was a saint to stay so long... .I think I am most angry that after all I went through, he had the nerve to want it over with me and brought another employee home into our bed on Xmas! That is what ended it for me... .He fought with me to make me leave my own home on Xmas and brought her to my bed. So disgusting! One of my friends said it was like he kept trying to get me to leave and I never did! So if that doesn't prove I wouldn't abandon him, I don't know what would! He kept telling me I abandoned him when I left the first time(he wouldn't stop bringing it up-but let me bring up the women and I was supposed to be instantly over it!) He told me he had a plan for me... .maybe it was to get rid of me in this way... .I wasn't sure if he would poison me or what? Then he sleeps with 4 more people after we separate and then ends up with one of the recycled ones from a year ago! His boss told me they were written up for getting involved with each other at work back then. I definitely feel abused, have PTSD and feel I have Stockholm syndrome from all of this. I feel like a complete doormat. Be glad you were only in it a couple years. It only gets worse. It aggravates me to see him love-bombing the recycle right now, I know what's in store for her and she is less of what he wants out of life than he had with me. That's the only reason I think he stayed so long with me,  was the monetary situation, he no longer has with her. We will divorce in January... .at one point he acted like maybe we would get back together- he hasn't done one thing to show me he is worth it-not one. He just got involved with a younger woman who will except his poor behavior and feed his narcissistic ego. But he told me he could manipulate me and manipulate her, so you tell me... .what percentage of good is worth all of that bad? I don't think any really... .sorry to say.  :'(  To think I felt sorry for him... .

[HappyNihilist]

  Hi james!

What proportion of "good" did your relationship have at the end? Has it affected your recovery?

These are good questions. As you said, a lot of stories here are similar, and disordered relationships definitely tend to follow a pattern. The early idealization phase is heady and intense, but it can't last forever. Once the devaluation begins, the bad times are just as intense. When a pwBPD's fears of abandonment or engulfment are triggered, it leads to confusing and often painful behavior.

Also, these are people we loved and cared about, whose qualities we appreciated. Of course there were still good times, even as the relationship neared its end. It's natural to miss the good times.

For the first year of my relationship, the good times were probably 90%. In the last 5-6 months, the bad times far outweighed the good. (In between were some months of about 70% good.) Memories of that first year kept torturing me after the breakup. It was hard for me to remember the bad times.

I'm 1 1/2 years out now. I still miss the good times of my relationship, and I miss having my ex in my life (we really did get along well). The difference is that now I'm ok with missing him. I don't obsess over it, I don't feel pain or panic about it. I just let it be and then move on with my life. Detachment is freedom.

I think the predominance of amazing/"good" memories that my mind can now analyse day by day (6 months out) makes me feel very guilty at times and makes it more difficult to let go.

This is a process, and it takes a while. You're making great progress - at 6 months out, you're obviously stepping back and analyzing your relationship.  

What stage of detachment do you think you might be in now? (see sidebar) ===========>

You say that you "feel very guilty" because you have a lot of great memories from your relationship. What about this makes you feel guilty?

Keep posting - it helps to talk. We're all healing together.

[myself]

Right before the end of our r/s, things were going very well. In some ways they were the best times we ever spent together. Although for me, the closeness we shared felt like it was expanding, while for her it was like it was constricting. It was the intimacy that triggered her disordered patterns to take over, again and again. Causing her to act out, sabotage, etc.

The "good times" can't be sustained in that kind of situation.

Remembered and appreciated? Yes. Let go of, also? Yes.

It affects my recovery from the b/u deeply, in areas I'm still discovering.

[enlighten me]

In the beginning 100% good which slowly dwindled by the end to 1% good.

[james_s]

Great input guys, thank you. This journey of self discovery is so perplexing.

We are just chapters in their life, yet they have be the whole book, from start to finish.

Elessar, I definitely agree with you with the good being too good to be true, the same applies for the bad unfortunately. I think we get hooked to the good and don't want to let go. Love your mum's comment. Think it is very true and once that line is crossed it hard to find a realistic way back.

Gameover, I share so many sentiments with your words. Six months out, I don't know if I am happier but I do know that my mind, virtually immediately, started to unwind and relax for the first time in a long time. But the "good times" still get me sometimes.

Herodias, wow, that sounds like a such a difficult period. If there is one thing I can say, from a distance and without knowing you, if only 50% of what you wrote occurred, you are completely warranted to feel this way and I am sure life holds so many wonderful opportunities now.

HappyNihilist, wise words. I can see you have done a lot of thinking and reading on the topic. I am probably at the Processing stage. Quite simply, I feel guilty as my decision to end it, no matter how warranted it was and for how long it had been coming, virtually changed her life immediately (due to the visa situation) and makes any possible reconciliation in the realm of fantasy. I also have professional training in this area, I advise others on relationships often in practice and yet I let myself (and her) down by trying to "fix" an impossible problem that existed before me, existed with me and will exist after me.

Myself, how far out are you now? You are right it is not sustainable. The good and bad aspects of the individual are one thing. I spent a long time trying to differentiate between the "two" people I was seeing.

Enlighten me, do you think the fact that it reached 1% good makes it easier to let go, to know that you do not want back in, to not be second guessing yourself? It must be so difficult in so many other ways btw to go from 100 to 1 as you say.

[enlighten me]

Yes I do think that it being so bad at the end outweighs the good in the beginning and that makes it easier not to go back as I know what she is capable of.

I think the difficult part is when its 50/50 as theres still so much to hold onto. Even at 1% that was enough to be getting my fix and make me reconsider leaving.

[problemsolver]

If I have to guess, I would say that a lot of us stay because when our significant others are good, they are very good. Mine is charming, intelligent, beautiful, full of life and intense etc. But on the other hand, maybe the good is too good to be true? I have gone out with regular girls, I hang out with my friends, and they aren't so intense. For long term relationship, maybe having our ex so intense isn't good. Because when that intensity turns from good to bad, those raging episodes are too much to handle. Mine wouldn't rage every day. Maybe couple of times a month or less. But those raging episodes and anger would last a week. Sometimes many weeks to a few months.

I was talking to my mom about it last month. She said there is a fine line where all the good cannot overcome some really terrible bad. I still get pulled to my ex because she is magnetic. Everyone loves her. She is the center of attention. But when I am alone with her she is empty. She has nothing to talk about. She is obsessed with her's and others' looks. The sex, charm, and seduction and idealization feels great, but how can one build life with just that? When she talks, it sounds very good - about family, kids, career etc. But when I see her actions, I see a child who deep down is scared of the world and strangers.

I can relate to this post... My BPDex is smart, great athlete, likes to workout, in great shape, very supportive well connected family, family knows alot of celebs, she's very career driven and a hard worker who has big dreams... If I just listed that one would think wow I'd love to know that person... But she does have some odd behavior 1v1 convos just me and her seemed so empty... She's very superficial loves make up... But it just seems like if sex runs low is she really a joy to be around? She is the center of attention can be so vibrant , great smile... To the public she's so pure and innocents as... But then you enter a room 1v1 and she's like a robot... All of what I mentioned above usually leaves me thinking wow was she really that bad? But none sees the bad except you which leaves alot of people in denial... As time wears on and you start hearing how "well" she's doing and a new "replacement" she's loving life with I start to forget the bad/rages/ crazy making...

[HappyNihilist]

Quite simply, I feel guilty as my decision to end it, no matter how warranted it was and for how long it had been coming, virtually changed her life immediately (due to the visa situation) and makes any possible reconciliation in the realm of fantasy.

That's a tough place to be, and a very difficult decision.   I'm sorry you had to struggle with this. It's hard to know that actions we took had such an impact on someone we love. Even when we know we did the best thing. Also, losing the hope of any possible reconciliation is devastating in its own right.

I also have professional training in this area, I advise others on relationships often in practice and yet I let myself (and her) down by trying to "fix" an impossible problem that existed before me, existed with me and will exist after me.

No matter how much we understand and know about something, it's still sometimes hard to apply it to ourselves.

I have a lot of training and expertise in my job, and I teach and mentor others - and I still make mistakes and learn something new every day at work. As Salvador Dali wisely said, "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it."

And when professionally dealing with matters of emotions and behavioral patterns and psychology - that's much closer to home, so to speak. Everyone struggles with these things. It's just human.

The important thing is that you're looking into this aspect of yourself. What is it that led you to try to 'fix' your ex's 'impossible problem'?

I am probably at the Processing stage.

This is where we get to start really probing into ourselves and challenging ourselves. But it's vital that we do so without judgment. For instance, you say you "let yourself (and her) down" - try to let go of that guilt and self-blame. Go easy on yourself. 

[FannyB]

I'd say that over the course of a 15 month relationship my ex was 80% 'perfect' and 20% weird. She never raged but would withdraw and glaze over when triggered. It's quite paradoxical to reconcile that my best girlfriend was also my worst in terms of how confused she made me feel. 

I think that remembering how great they were can sometimes inhibit healing - especially if you're someone who doesn't naturally embrace the single life. I was lucky in the sense that during my only recycle with her I had already worked out she had BPD. When the acting out started again, I reluctantly concluded that there was no long term future with someone who is so emotionally unstable - I had proved the concept if you like, so that gave me my own form of closure. No 'what ifs' for me.


Fanny

[Kennyble]

I think that remembering how great they were can sometimes inhibit healing... .I reluctantly concluded that there was no long term future with someone who is so emotionally unstable - I had proved the concept if you like, so that gave me my own form of closure. No 'what ifs' for me.

Fanny

Attempting to use quote tool for first time. fingers crossed;

Fanny, I feel that you have hit the nail on the head. I wish I could say the same, but am still stuck in the clutching at straws phase. Trying v hard to learn from wisdom like yours though

[joeramabeme]

It was the intimacy that triggered her disordered patterns to take over, again and again. Causing her to act out, sabotage, etc.

It affects my recovery from the b/u deeply, in areas I'm still discovering.

Thanks Myself, you said it so well for me.  It is like a self-fulfilling time bomb; She wanted to be close to me but the closer she got the more unstable/angry/defensive/abusive she became until finally she had to leave the situation because I addressed all her defenses for myself and at that point - true emotional intimacy could no longer be avoided.

Aside from the disordered parts, there were quite a few good times but they did diminish towards the end when she simply withdrew and chose not to engage in the marriage any longer.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Mine deterioted over a period of 3 years. When it reached saturation; the point where no amount of good (even 99%) could override the (1% bad), I had to put a stop to it. It crossed my last boundary and I had to save myself. I didn't realise how important the boundary thing is. They have no limits, alway pushing and testing, it was like a do or die mission for them. They will never stop... .until you broke or them. Sounds like something occurring around the globe: terrorism. It will never stop, but that does not mean you have to put up with it.

[james_s]

Great insight in all your replies. I think there is a line at some point that gets crossed and deep inside you know that it cannot continue, no matter how amazing the rest was.

Thanks for the nice words HappyNihilist. The struggle of breaking the dreams of someone you love (no matter how childish those dreams are or how abusive the individual is) is real. Quite simply, I tried to fix the "impossible" because of how good the "good" in the relationship was.